inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1851 of 2008: JaNell (janell) Mon 11 Jun 01 18:26
permalink #1851 of 2008: JaNell (janell) Mon 11 Jun 01 18:26
On the prickly topic of GAIMAN-SHAVE signs, er, BURMA-SHAVE signs, here's two potentials for Neil-related signs: "IF YOU WANDER/FAR FROM HOME/TO A SIGNING,/BRING A GNOME./GAIMAN-SHAVE" or "IF NEIL GAIMAN/SIGNS ON YOU,/HAVE IT TRANSFERRED/TO TATTOO./GAIMAN-SHAVE" (chortle)
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1852 of 2008: 'Walker (nightwalker) Mon 11 Jun 01 23:56
permalink #1852 of 2008: 'Walker (nightwalker) Mon 11 Jun 01 23:56
Rocky - I'm sure you've seen versions of it... it's the wide-eyed, mouth agape, drink stalled halfway to the lips look, with glimpses of confusion, amazement, and abject terror flashing in the eyes. Depending on the moment, various sentences cause that reaction: "Do you all want to meet Bob Weir?" "Dont. Move. Or. He. Will. Attack." "How do you feel about children?" "Were you the owner of a 1997 black Firebird?" ...and yes, there's a story for each of those. -- Walker --
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1853 of 2008: Dan Guy (danfowlkes) Tue 12 Jun 01 05:45
permalink #1853 of 2008: Dan Guy (danfowlkes) Tue 12 Jun 01 05:45
Neil -- The Toshiba Libretto L1 looks nice, with decent specs and all, and "subcompact" isn't the half of it. Good luck getting it in time! I am all-too-familiar with the aggrevation of trying to get something shipped to an address other than my billing address. (I tend to try to have books I order delivered to me at work so the wife doesn't find out. tee-hee.) Walker -- I so want to ask about #2 on that list. ^^
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1854 of 2008: Jouni Koponen (jonl) Tue 12 Jun 01 06:24
permalink #1854 of 2008: Jouni Koponen (jonl) Tue 12 Jun 01 06:24
Email from Jouni Koponen: DanGuy - Yay! A baby! Always knew I'm reading the topic too sloppy! All the best for you and your wife! Actually we (me and my wife that is) are almost in a same situation ourselves (the little person should be born around july 15-27). Very excited/ scared/ nervous/ happy about it. Neil - So there seems to be atleast two soon-to-be-daddies. Any parental wisdom you could share (could use some)? Jouni
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1855 of 2008: Len Schiff (theboojum) Tue 12 Jun 01 06:39
permalink #1855 of 2008: Len Schiff (theboojum) Tue 12 Jun 01 06:39
Neil- I was thinking of getting Libretto, mostly because I intended to write libretti on it, which I thought was only appropriate. Guess I'll wait. Will-- sorry for late response... yes, I'll be at the MF show (I think that's what you asked me, right?) Danguy-- wait, did I miss something-- is the baby born?
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1856 of 2008: Len Schiff (theboojum) Tue 12 Jun 01 06:47
permalink #1856 of 2008: Len Schiff (theboojum) Tue 12 Jun 01 06:47
SUSHI ROLLS CANADIAN CLEAR AFTER SIGNING HAVE A BEER GAIMAN SHAVE BOOKSTORE SIGNINGS SHOULD BE FUN WATCH OUT FOR MAD FAN WITH GUN GAIMAN SHAVE
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1857 of 2008: Dan Guy (danfowlkes) Tue 12 Jun 01 07:38
permalink #1857 of 2008: Dan Guy (danfowlkes) Tue 12 Jun 01 07:38
Jouni -- Thanks, and congrats to you as well! Len -- No, the baby still has yet to show up. The wife and I are going to the doctor's today for a consultation and a sonogram and whatnot. I fully expect to see Alexander clinging for dear life to Lori's ribs or something, obstinately refusing to be born. Speaking of authors' work being misused after death, I ran across another sad item in the NY Times recently. It seems that HarperCollins plans to produce a series of new Narnia novels. That in itself is bad enough, I think, but what's more they intend to strip any religious symbolism from the land. It's an attempt to capitalize on the Harry Potter craze, supposedly. I think new books in an established series whose author is dead, particularly ones that intentionally deviate so, are a Very Bad Idea.
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1858 of 2008: Adriana Roze (ariadne26) Tue 12 Jun 01 09:07
permalink #1858 of 2008: Adriana Roze (ariadne26) Tue 12 Jun 01 09:07
Danguy- WAWAWHAAAAT? Stripped of ... new... capitalizing on... Oh, Christ. I need a drink.
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1859 of 2008: Happy Birthday to me... (janell) Tue 12 Jun 01 09:22
permalink #1859 of 2008: Happy Birthday to me... (janell) Tue 12 Jun 01 09:22
DanGuy - Oh, Aslan, you've got to have read that wrong! The whole thing... the whole point... Adriana, pour me one, too! Len Schiff - those are great! I'll be back with more later; this diversion combines three of my favorite things: trying to get people to laugh, writing poetry, and teasing Neil... ANY SEASON/ ANY WEATHER/ WEAR SUNGLASSES/ AND BLACK LEATHER/ GAIMAN-SHAVE
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1860 of 2008: abbe (abbecohen) Tue 12 Jun 01 09:28
permalink #1860 of 2008: abbe (abbecohen) Tue 12 Jun 01 09:28
What are they thinking? "hmm... if we remove the Christian symbolism and add in some good old fashioned witches and magic, then all the fundamentalists will yell and scream about the Satanic books their kids are reading... meaning more people will buy them to see what the fuss is about..." Sigh.
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1861 of 2008: Dan Wilson (stagewalker) Tue 12 Jun 01 09:39
permalink #1861 of 2008: Dan Wilson (stagewalker) Tue 12 Jun 01 09:39
New Narnia novels, explicitly secular... Well, that rather misses the point now, doesn't it? I can't think of anything that could possibly more completely violate an authors vision for his creation. And what's more... why? Why do a non-religious Narnia in the first place? That symbolism was part of what made Narnia unique from other fantasy worlds. My mind is reeling...The Emperor Beyond the Sea, Aslan... oh....
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1862 of 2008: Dan Guy (danfowlkes) Tue 12 Jun 01 10:23
permalink #1862 of 2008: Dan Guy (danfowlkes) Tue 12 Jun 01 10:23
While one might quite possibly read the Narnia books and never pick up on the religious subtext, I think that it is that subtext which lends the series a greater resonance which makes the experience richer, even for those who miss it consciously. My wife just forwarded me a bit about it: "According to The New York Times, a recent memo from an executive at HarperCollins suggests that the publisher of the new books will ''need to be able to give emphatic assurances that no attempt will be made to correlate the stories to Christian imagery/theology.''" What, are all of the Harry Potter loving parents going to be outraged if they find out that their kids Narnia books contain Christianity?
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1863 of 2008: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Tue 12 Jun 01 12:20
permalink #1863 of 2008: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Tue 12 Jun 01 12:20
Am I the only person who is utterly unfazed by the "not explicitly Christian Narna" stuff...? With the possible exception of the embarrassing Aslan turns into a Lamb bit in Voyage, and the appearance of Father Christmas, the power of Narnia is that it is deep, pagan storytelling, in which Bacchus and Silenus rub shoulders with Giants and fallen stars. No-one said Narnia wouldn't be religious. just that it wouldn't be explicitly Christian. Which the Narnia books aren't. Aslan dies on the table and gets better. He's not the first god or the last to do that. Aslan is NOT Christ. He's an incarnation of god in the form of a Lion -- and not a tame lion, and not a man-pretending-to-be-a-lion. (Were he actually, specifically, the Jesus Christ of the New Testament, reincarnated as a Lion then I think the Narnia books would have to be seen as blasphemous. ) i think sharecropping narnia is an abomination of sorts, but find that bit of it and the fuss made about it frankly silly. What power the Narnia books have is not about Lewis's Chrsitianity; it's about his ability to tell tales. (Now if someone were to start sharecropping Screwtape without the christianity -- THAT i'd find offensive.) Rereading the narnia books to my daughter -- the first time I'd read them aloud since my older kids were her age -- I was struck by how badly constructed Prince Caspian is, how badly written (not the same thing at all) The Last Battle is, and how much I wished for a woman who could be sexual without being evil (or in one case, stupid). Susan was denied heaven for her interest in Nylons and lipstick and boys, and she got off easy compared to Jadis, the lady in the Green Kirtle, and co... And also how, basically, these are solid stories in a deeply pagan tradition, and that place is where the fun is -- witches and fauns and the imps from the underworld, and the Arabian Nights, and Puddleglum. As I say, I seem to be a minority about this one. ... Jinx -- just wondered if any of the one day laydown hardbacks had crept out into the world. Grey is a good name. So, Janell, is Rowan. It's the name of my friend Chris's daughter, in the UK, and I'd have called a daughter Rowan if one who looked like a Rowan had ever turned up. Instead I settled for planting a tree. Joseph -- I think the ones with the signed prints are the limited edition, so you made out like a bandit. Rocky -- I think so. Dan -- yes. databases are cooler. But chapter-by-chapter annotations a) won't give away chunks of plot still to come, which databases will -- they aren't smart enough to figure out what chapter you've read up to; and b) let you check stuff as you read along. And if something happens to a document, another copy of a document can be posted. If something happens to a database, a bunch of people with day jobs are going to put off repairing it until they have time. I like simple. It's harder to break. (See the TOUR page at Americangods.com which is connected to a database, and keeps turning out wrong, useless, or damaged information. All I wanted was a text page that could be modified and wouldn't suddenly forget what cities the Canadian signings were in.) Will -- hmm. maybe. Adriana -- nope. Mostly I don't think I'm a very good actor. But I like reading my own stuff. DanGuy -- well done! JOuni -- parental wisdom? Sure. Enjoy each it while it's going on, don't wait for the next bit, the 'when's he going to walk/talk/drive' etc thing. It goes really fast, so just enjoy the bit you're on. And if you listen to your kids, you learn things. Len -- I'll let you know how the libretto works out.
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1864 of 2008: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Tue 12 Jun 01 12:20
permalink #1864 of 2008: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Tue 12 Jun 01 12:20
JaNell -- happy birthday
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1865 of 2008: Robynne (gorey) Tue 12 Jun 01 12:43
permalink #1865 of 2008: Robynne (gorey) Tue 12 Jun 01 12:43
I wasn't bothered by the Christianity in Narnia until _The Last Battle_, and part of that, as you point out, is because it's badly written. I'm not bothered by the Christianity being remove, either, as much as I am annoyed that Narnia isn't simply being left alone. The only other women that I can think of as being sexual and good were the Maenads, and they weren't so much women as forces of nature.
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1866 of 2008: Shawn Shelby (shawnshelby) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:26
permalink #1866 of 2008: Shawn Shelby (shawnshelby) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:26
As someone who hasn't read Lewis' books in far too many years to discuss intelligently, I'm just gonna cover my eyes when this duscussion hits full force. But one quick question for you Neil before I go. With all the talks about past and the upcoming signings, I wonder if many authors remember the first autograph they were asked for by a fan? It seems like that would stick out in my mind as sort of an epiphany, but no one except the IRS has ever seemed very determined to get me to put my name on anything. :) So how about it, is there a specific first fan that you remember asking for one, or has it pretty much faded into the rest of the lord knows how many sigs you've made through your career?
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1867 of 2008: Michelle Montrose-Hyman (miss-mousey) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:33
permalink #1867 of 2008: Michelle Montrose-Hyman (miss-mousey) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:33
Walker - but nothing compares to the look on a particular gal's face when asked "Hey Jinx, JINX! Um, wanna meet Bob Weir?" Tell us, Jinx, was the "what" that followed because you didn't hear us right? or because you didn't believe us? :P (d'oh, and I still owe Mike email!) re: Narnia - Having been completely oblivious to the full concept of religion until I was about 12 (honest, I thought it was just a really cool story that a lot of people were really into, like faerie tales or Rocky Horror), and having first read the books before then, I was kind of surprised when people told me it was a metaphor for Christianity and so I re-read them a couple of years later. Huh. What do you know? I dunno. As long as you can write the stories well and still have them played out in a manner that still make them fun and interesting... Still, I think it would be much better to come up with something new, rather than capitalize on such a classic without following the original guidelines of said classic. squeaks, off to the comic shop to spend money she doesn't have. :o)
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1868 of 2008: experience uncut Martha (madman) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:35
permalink #1868 of 2008: experience uncut Martha (madman) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:35
Didn't Aslan, way towards the end of The Last Battle, specifically equate himself with Christ? I'll have to check when I get home.
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1869 of 2008: Linda Castellani (castle) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:39
permalink #1869 of 2008: Linda Castellani (castle) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:39
E-mail from Glen Seymour: Whenever possible, I like to double check information given on the net. Therefore, I found this post on SCIFI.COM "The Times also reported that an internal HarperCollins memo suggested that an effort should be made to downplay the novels' Christian imagery and theology--a suggestion that HarperCollins executives subsequently rejected, the Times reported." I didn't feel like registering to read the Times, so I guess I'll take SciFi's word on it. - The Other Glen
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1870 of 2008: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:40
permalink #1870 of 2008: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:40
Shawn -- let's see -- first signings were probably on the mini-tour for GHASTLY BEYOND BELIEF, with Kim Newman, in 1985. I think the first booksigning was at Andromeda books in Birmingham. That was a long time ago and around 250,000 people ago, I guess... The ones that stand out tend to be people like the girl in New York who said, very shyly, "could you sign my breast," and when I did said simply "Now you'll never forget me" and walked away. And I haven't forgotten her, although I've forgotten most of the other people and body-parts I've signed, but it was what she did and said, not where I signed, that made her memorable. Robynne -- yes, I thought of the Maenads (and the nymphs and such), but they had no dialogue (except for the nymph whose tree was cut down) and were more or less window dressing. The only one I could think of , trying hard, was the Star's Daughter, and she's offstage for most of the book she's in. Michelle -- but the original guidelines of the classic aren't "Let's hide Christianity in a book" -- they were "I want to know who this faun is under a lamppost, carrying packages," and that was the story C.S. Lewis set out to write. I think the New Narnia stuff is a VERY bad idea, and wrong. But it's not wrong because Harper are saying they shouldn't be explicitly Christian -- the Narnia books aren't -- but because he told his story, and that was that. madman -- not that I recall, no.
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1871 of 2008: Ja 'n' Ell, two great gods that taste great in one (janell) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:50
permalink #1871 of 2008: Ja 'n' Ell, two great gods that taste great in one (janell) Tue 12 Jun 01 13:50
Neil, I have to strongly disagree. ALL of his works are Christian allegory. It's his thing. Now, there are some aspects of the novels that could be considered pagan, but these are also the parts assimilated from older religions into Christianity. The sexuality-in-women-is-evil thing is always a give away. Many older religions considered sexuality as part of the life-force, and as natural as eating. Finding women who are sexual but not evil or stupid isn't all that hard. Finding them in literature and movies is, unless there's a psycho killer near by. 'Cause they need to be punished or something. Re: memorable signings, see, I was paying attention at some point; I wrote you a Gaiman-Shave about the person who had your sig tattooed immediately after.
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1872 of 2008: -N. (streak) Tue 12 Jun 01 14:50
permalink #1872 of 2008: -N. (streak) Tue 12 Jun 01 14:50
When I first read that Narnia datum, I actually did feel the need to go splash myself some Talisker. By the bottom of the glass I'd realized that Neil's half-right. Much of the problem is that here in America, narrowminded Protestants have not only laid claim to the entire words "Christian" and "religious" but they're working on "spiritual" and "family" as well. I think their eventual goal is to have every adjective in the English language be a code term for Protestant. So yes, Lewis did put a little religious spin on Narnia. That's actually religious, mind you, not necessarily Christian. Mind you, there was a Christian flavor to it, but that's because Lewis wrote it. In short, in writing the books and making the choices that all writers make, chapter by chapter, page by page and line by line, he would tend to steer towards religious themes. If these books are being created as described, then whatever poor bastard is going to have to spend his life admitting to having written them is, even now, pounding away at them with his much-thumbed copies of Lewis at his elbow, but he's steering the opposite direction. Where Lewis would think to himself something like "Hmmm... that'll make Aslan sound a little like Jesus. Heh. Cool." our hapless semi-ghost writer will be thinking "Ummm, that'd make Aslan sound a little like Jesus. Fuck, they'll just make me take that bit out anyway, then." The result will be something that looks pretty much like the Narnia books, in the way that Windows looks pretty much like the Mac OS, or the New Beetle looks pretty much like the old Beetle. Same visible structure, fundamentally different design philosophies.
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1873 of 2008: Jenny B. (ophelia-b) Tue 12 Jun 01 15:23
permalink #1873 of 2008: Jenny B. (ophelia-b) Tue 12 Jun 01 15:23
Happy birthday JaNell. :-)
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1874 of 2008: Erynn Miles (erynn-miles) Tue 12 Jun 01 15:44
permalink #1874 of 2008: Erynn Miles (erynn-miles) Tue 12 Jun 01 15:44
Hello everybody! Had a fun weekend with the in-laws and did lots of shopping and eating. I now have a garden on my patio and lots of plants. I did the foil thing with the indoor ones. It seems to be keeping the cats away. Someone complimented them and said: What a wonderful idea! Where did you learn that?" I said: "Neil Gaiman suggested it." They said:"What?! Wow!" Hee-hee. How often can people say things like that? lucky, lucky me:) Hmmm. Re New Narnia: I agree with bits of what everyone has said. There are always going to be people trying to bastardize, recreate, capatalize (or all of the above) classics and of course alter things just as people alter history. But if you don't like it, I think it's okay to just turn your head once in a while and pretend it doesn't exist. For instance: I refuse to beleive that there are sequels to THe Crow or Blair Witch project no matter what people say....Let them have their 15 minutes and quick money. The origional stories are always going to be the ones most remembered and cherished in the whole grand scheme of things. DanGuy- I was trying to send vibes to your wife, but I don't know what she looks like, so it was hard. Hope the doctors appointment went well. Neil- I love the new Stardust cover! Will definatly have to get it. Much much better than the mass paperback one. I just found out that two of my friends are into reading sciencefiction/fantasy stuff. I never knew. I just thought they watched movies and got stoned. So I bought them a Neverwhere paperback, as I'm sure they'll be hooked after that. Who knows, maybe they'll come to the signing and perhaps you'll have new fans:) My ex-roommate George's girlfriend is a huge fan. But she she won't go to the signing. "Why?" I asked. "Because I'm too scared." I have no idea what that meant. She's weird. THere is an Eagle Creek Park in Indiana where I used to fly planes. Perhaps the travel agents were thinking of that and got confused. Janell- Happy Birthday:) Erynn, who had better go water her plants before she forgets.
inkwell.vue.104
:
Neil Gaiman: Countdown to American Gods
permalink #1875 of 2008: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Tue 12 Jun 01 15:49
permalink #1875 of 2008: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Tue 12 Jun 01 15:49
Okay, I've got my best friend Emma on the line (who called me to tell me how annoyed she is that her car's air conditioning broke and seeing as how she's 9 months pregnant and moving in 2 days, this is BAD BAD BAD) and so knowing that she is a rabid Narnia fan, I told her about Harper. I am being treated to "No! What? No! That's wrong! Only Clive can write Narnia. No one else can. Okay, maybe Neil could. But this is wrong!" etc. Lots. She's written many papers on Narnia. She's not a happy gigantically pregnant lady. (side note to unca neil: Em hasn't read much, but she knows enough that you could pull off the tone and style, because she's read enough to know how you use language but that even so... bad, wrong bad, etc. Oh, and she's big on the part where you're English, and she has fear that the next author might be American. Big fear. Big. Me? I just have fear, period. But I thought I'd share.) I was never read Narnia books when I was small, and since both Emma and my backflip boy adore them, I've been handed them upon occasion, but I haven't had the same affection (Emma says "lunatic obsession", but I digress) for them that I would have had had I cherished them from childhood. Even so, I'm not keen on books becoming a franchise when they are so much one author's vision which cannot be adequately reproduced. I fear "Poodle Springs." Fear it.
Members: Enter the conference to participate. All posts made in this conference are world-readable.