Inkwell: Authors and Artists

    
Yes - I almost added to my comment above that the Well started downward
when Engaged was implemented. A rather harsh statement, but for some of
us who were here from the beginning, pretty obvious. But of course I,
and others who were far more interested in the ascii words, than flashy
graphics, and who always telnetted in to see raw text, are probably
biased. So call the old Well an 'ascii' community.

Although about the time Engaged came in, some of the original gang - who
in many ways 'built' the community of the Well, and had because of that
a rather different relationship to it - and each other - were either
tiring of its endless, sometimes time-sink, moved on, or grew up in
their professions (especially true of journalists, some of whom were
still in knee pants when the Well started. Now wear suits and ties in
New York.)

So it wasn't only the advent of Engaged and those who used it, but it
about then that it changed.
  

    
We were complaining about pico in 1987 when I joined.  In fact, my
recollection is that 'fymw' goes back all the way to the beginning.
On the other hand, I always wanted to say "thank you Marcus" because
the conceptual design was as close to what was needed as anything
I've ever seen.

Unlike the way "threaded" (loaded term I know but there you go) lists
are at least unconsciously designed, pico has the assumption that users
want to join a conversation (i.e., a topic) and then decide whether to
continue participating.  In many cases, it is useful to look back on
the entire history of the conversation, and that greatly enriches the
participation of newcomers in my experience.  Since most threaded systems
either expire postings quickly (Usenet) or make it next to impossible to
trace back, this made pico fairly unique, especially after the slow
demise of the old BBS-style conferencing systems, Compuserve and so on.

pico's solution to the notion that sometimes you do want crossposting
is that *topics* are shared, not isolated postings (i.e., not like
Usenet), and that topics don't get forked when the subject changes
(i.e., unlike most threaded list systems).  This poses some interesting
policy issues for conference hosts but on the whole has been very positive,
since it extends the reach of conversation across domains where it really
makes a difference.  ....Deadhead Parents on the Well.... and all that
being kind of the envelope test for the whole concept.

It also depends on the group of people involved, of course.  To use a
different example, where Slash (the code that underlies Slashdot) is
used on a wide variety of online systems now, very few have the depth
and dynamism of Slashdot at its best (OK, that's kind of a thing of the
past too; volume on Slashdot is very high but quality has been declining
rapidly for the last three years).  I really haven't been on any other
systems using pico or pico-like software to any great degree, but my
impression is that it turned out to be a good fit for the population
that happened to be attracted to online conversation during the pre-Web
era in the tech-oriented Bay Area.

I also think it's wrong to point the finger at Engaged for diminishing the
overall quality of the Well.  In some ways it's a pretty elegant 
accomplishment, requiring a back end migration that still rather amazes
me (mkwilson, take a bow).  

Overall, the Well kind of reminds me of those little resort towns in
the Catskills or Poconos.  They were posh in the 1920s and have since
reverted to sort of a rustic elegance.  People go there because they
like to, because the surroundings are pleasant, and because there is
no strong motivation to remake everything from the ground up now.
And they haven't become ghost towns by any stretch of the imagination.

Eventually the interstates (and the fiber optic lines) reach those
places, and yuppies start building McMansions in preposterous locations
on the landscape.  But we haven't gotten there yet with the Well ...
  

    
It's also worth remembering that, once you got over the initial
learning curve for picospan, you could figure out how to download and
install sweeper and never have to deal with pico again. Which makes
picospan sort of an analogy to getting through hazing to join a frat.
Or something.
  

    
Actually, as with many command line programs, you only really need to 
know about a dozen or so to make your way around the Well with pico.
The daunting part is figuring out which ones, and the Well always had
good user guides both online and on paper.
  

    

You could use Sweeper on PCs.  Us Mac folks didn't have it.  fwiw
  

    
I remember people complaining about pico and asking for a graphical
interface for years; Engaged was for them. I appreciate that Engaged was
built to work with pico, and pico's never gone away. In another universe,
management might've discontinued pico and replaced it with the gui. That,
I think, would have been quite detrimental to the flow of conversation
here.
  

    

  It would have killed it completely.
  

    

We seem to have scared Katie away.
  

    
It's an asynchonous medium, mot all of us are checking back every 10
minutes.  (Funny how that defines the Major Poster in many ways...  frequent
laps around that circle of favorite conferences...)

Katie, I'm out of town right now and don't have the book in front of me, but
one way I know it appeals to people who have not been part of The WELL is
that I have heard it is a page-turner (that exact venerable cliche) from 
three people now, out of perhaps nine I have talked to who have read it
with no WELL experience.

THe other thing I have gotten back was the line you quoted from me about
how painfullly difficult it was to call Tom Mandel up after his ugly
verbal voodoo attack on nana in the Wierd conference and all the phone
calls and email that generated to me as the manager of conferencing.  I
phoned him at work, and as you said I said later it was one of the most
emotionally difficult calls I ever made. I'm noting that people are
guessing that means I got flamed by him, but that was not the case.  

To me the interesting thing was that I expected him to be agressive,
sarcastic, or even defensive, but when I called him at work he began to
sob and he cried through the phone call.  I immediately felt like I'd been
roped into playing the neighborhood cop called in to a domestic dispute in
an apartment building, a role I usually avoided consciously and
successfully.  I knew Tom had been tossed off the WELL before, but I
didn't want to do that.  I wanted to hold on to a principle that <weird.>
was a place where people could use words in humor or anger and be
unreasonable.  I wanted to support the hosts, or persuade them, but not go
around them. 

So the community reaction, the white corpuscles or lynch mob, was better
in some ways in keeping that value alive.  However, I was criticised as
being conflict adverse for that, of course.  

Anybody have thoughs on peer-pressure on The WELL?  Katie, what do people
say to you about how that should have been handled and how it was?

  
  

    
A page turner for some of us ON the WELL, too, Gail. I read it in one
sitting. And thanks for that fleshing out of that corner of the story.
  

    

>That (a Gui only), I think, would have been quite detrimental to the
flow of conversation here.

Really, why?  I mostly use Engaged, doesn't keep me from blabbing
away.
  

    
Dave Hughes! So great to see you here. Long time, Colonel. I hope you
know that I've always appreciated your perspective and your experience.
The WELL needed people like you, even ex-hippies like yours truly.
It's telling that you, an "outsider," made it to this conversation.
Keep loggin' on, Dave.

Yes, I was in the book and I only wish I could find the "edit" button
to clean up the sappy retrospective message Katie included that I'd
posted about my years at the WELL. Gawd, what pretentious writing.

For me, the most remarkable thing Katie revealed about Tom was that
his close associates were unaware of his WELL habit. I'd wonder almost
every day how a guy with a fulltime job could be logged in so
continuously. I figured it was accepted as part of Tom's ongoing
research, not as a shadow life.
  

    

Gail, when I first heard about the "expedition" topic, I couldn't
quite believe it. Then, when I heard about what pains you went to --
and how painful all those pains were -- to deal with it, I was
awestruck. What a careful, caring place, I thought. 

Yes, you did tel me that Tom was extremely upset when you spoke with
him. But I didn't know about the sobbing. That's heartbreaking.

Peer pressure no doubt plays a big role on the Well, just as it does
in physical space. But Tom seemed to thrive on flouting it.
  

    
Yes, it *was* part of his research. He was trying to figure out (for some
of his clients) just where and if computer people communications fit
as 'business.' We discussed it often. And often by voice phone.

You will recall how he would sometimes get worked up over predictions by
Wellites over how online networking would project into the 'future.' And
he would bash Toffler, Naisbit and other so-called 'futurists.' He was
always in an intellectual arguement with himself over this medium, even
while he was immersed in it.
  

    
Be careful about declaring what a 'caring' place the Well was/is, without
also noting it was/is also one of the cruelest places online. Some hapless
folks would sometimes be burned at the stake, and driven off, or out of
some conferences.
  

    
Was Boswell in the book? Or did he come along too late for it. I always
found him to be one of the most interesting - and tough-minded - Wellites.
  

    
That's true, and often by the same people who were heroically helpful
in other contexts.

The thing about Mandel's colleagues not knowing about his Well habit--
one of the most striking things I recall about his memorial was the
contingents from different worlds who basically didn't know about 
each other at all. The SRI people, the Time people, the Well people, etc.
  

    
Dave slipped, and I don't think Gerard was calling himself Boswell
then, but he was around from early on.
  

    
 I saw the other day that Tom Mandel's page at Pathfinder has disappeared.

 I wonder if it's archived anywhere else?
  

    
Just out of curiosity, Katie: were there people you tried to interview
for the book who refused to talk to you? (I'm not asking for names,
just whether there was anyone in that category). If so, did you get a
sense as to why not?
  

    
Gerard (boswell) was <trend> when he first appeared.  He posted a series of
blistering rants about the nature of the book business.  Great stuff.
  

    
Seems to me there was another identity or two, but they've slipped
my mind.
  

    
mayajim.
  

    
There's a picture of Gerard in the book, at a picnic. Identified as
<boswell> in the pic.
  

    
The other known -- if short-lived -- Boswellian alter-ego was <fredm>, an
April Fools' joke that generated some consternation.