Inkwell: Authors and Artists

    
The whole Genre thing is difficult. I don't *want* to pigeonhole art
into Genres, but it's a sort of useful shorthand that we pretty much
all understand, even if we disagree on individual books.

Rocky~I'll have to think about that, the point being lost part. Oh,
somewhat OT, but Cameron makes a great case for The Jerry Springer Show
being a modern Morality Play. 
You know, I've always used my name just as it was given to me, but I'm
getting to like the way you spell it, Ja'Nell, so much that I may get
all fannish and use that, instead...

Neil~Don't be silly; of course you don't have to answer; it's just
that in #1043 you said "Nicholas Was..." was too short to be Horror,
and I am very curious as to why you think that Horror is a set length,
and still don't know.

Erynn~I'm sorry you can't see the pictures, they're pretty funny. The
content has been silly lately, but it gets serious sometimes, too. And
it's Long Island Iced Tea. At least here, on the menus that spell
things right in general.

Streak~Anne Rice is one of my guilty pleasures; the new Vampire stuff
reeks, though; it seems like she's just rushing through and doesn't
really have a story to tell. Poppy Z. Brite, what little I've read,
well, it's too visceral for me.

Maure~I made someone dance with glee! Wahoo! 
  

    
Neil~ actually, the "acknowledgement" part in #1060 was referring to
#1045, which I thought you'd be interested in hearing.
  

    
janell: as far as I know, genre isn't defined by length.

will: okay, so I just skimmed this topic his morning, and didn't catch
this, so I'm gonna throw it out here and hope I'm not repeating, but
I've always operated under the assumption that:

10,000 word and under = short story
10-49,999 = novella
50,000+ = novel. 

Some folsk define novella differently (and break it down into short
story, long short story, then novella) . Some folks break short story
down into vignette and short story, but I think that always has more to
do with the structure and theme of the short story, rather than word
count. I should probably say then 50,000 = novel-length story, because
novels the way I think of them also have a specific sort of structure.
So if you have a book made up of a bunch of linked vignettes and short
stories, it may not technically be a novel, because it isn't
specifically put together like one, regardless of being novel-length.

So, have I only further confused? I'm on cold meds, and I'm not
exactly crystal clear without them, so make of that what you will... 
  

    
Neil~
Via e-mail from ToriBat:

...the next time you do talk to Neil just tell him umm...Hi! and I
expect lots of Sandman/Gaiman-ish christmas presents! at least thats
the majority I've asked for! I hope I'll get 'em! (still looking
forward to the Delirium plush doll that I didn't get for my birthday
*frown*) anyway toodles.
  

    
Dern mind control!
  

    
The concept of a "sounds-like-type-O-negative-cover-of-Britney-Spears"
is really scaring me.  Anyone have a pointer to where I could get it? 
(Someone mentioned Napster but I don't can't use Napster...  is it on
a CD or something?)
  

    
Erynn, Long Island Iced Tea in the reference books I checked, with one
Long Island Ice Tea.

JaNell -- I don't think I was being silly. I thought I'd explained
what I meant about length in 1056. Obviously not making myself clear.
Let me try again.

Can you creep people out in a short-short like Nicholas Was? Sure. Can
you make their blood run cold in a shortish fable like Babycakes? Yup.


But I tend to think of them in the same way a humour writer would
think of a joke, or an anecdote. Sure, they make some people laugh. But
when we talk about the craft of humour writing, we may be thinking
about something else, a process of building and crafting.

For me, horror (which, remember, I don't write very often) is about
building something solid and then slowly pulling out the tentposts;
it's about going over to the dark side of the street, and then not
going back over to the side where it's well lit, even when you hear
something rustle and snap in the darkness.

Having read what everyone had to say, I realised I was looking at it
from the point of view of a builder of things, and may well be wrong;
it's just how I classify things in my head. Kelly's 1069 seems very
sensible in all this.

Mike - Peckett Prest in high litereature? Not even 160 years on; that
man's still happy in the gutter...

Kelly et al -- I wouldn't classify Neverwhere as SF. I'd probably
classify it as fiction, if pushed as fantasy. But was fascinated to see
how three books from one author writing (to my mind) the same kind of
stuff were classified as three different things...

When Avon were first publishing Stardust as a paperback they designed
three covers as a triptych: the Fantasy COver, the Mainstream COver and
the Romance Cover, as the hardback seemed to be selling equally well
to all three groups. (It didn't happen, due to a Big Chain not liking
the idea for racking purposes, which meant they took the Fantasy Cover
of the thre and put a blue cover with a window over it.)

Streak -- the last book of Anne Rice's I read with pleasure was
probably Queen of the Damned; the only book of hers I've loved (because
it was gonzo and passionate and weird) was the first book of the
Sleeping Beauty set.  Tim Powers, Iain Banks and Poppy Z Brite are
authors who rarely fail to delight me (Iain M. Banks OTOH is someone
whose books I like or I don't.)

JaNell -- I think classic Springer may well have been Morality Plays.
Watching bits of the show in its dotage (which I've been doing the last
week, as I've been up and writing when the wild feed comes on at 1.00
am, and have found it for the first time in several years)it's now a
badly staged freak show. 

("And now The Fat Man will take off his clothes and Slosh Around in
the Garbage!" 

"But Honey, what you're doin' is disgusting!" 

"Hell my fiancee, if you loved me, you'd take off your clothes and
roll in the garbage with me."

"Er. Now? Do I? Oh, er, I do not want to lose you so now I will take
off my clothes."

The strange little "this is somebody's life and tragedy" quality that
it once had is completely gone, and it reminds me of nothing so much as
the unwatchable last days of the Richard Bey show. (Also once a 2.00
am wild feed).

Yay! for Toribat.
  

    
Neil~Thanks. No, it wasn't clear at all to me, but we both know by now
how very differently our minds work. The silly was referring to you
thinking that I have any expectation of you owing me an answer.

The other; well, to me, the biggest thing that's happened in my life
this past year, the most thrilling, was being there when Rowan read his
first word all by himself. Whole worlds open up with reading; you can
go and do and be anything at all, peek into the minds of people you'll
never meet, grow to understand that your reality is just a tiny part of
the whole picture. Everything, anything is possible, and can, or
might, or did or will happen. To watch that treasure being opened for
the first time - there's nothing, not being published, or winning the
lottery, or whatnot, that can compare to the thrill of those moments -
the birth, the first step, the first word spoken - for me. And I wanted
to share that with you.

Re: Springer, you know, the few times I've seen it this year, he
seemed to be shaking his head in disbelief that these nutjobs were
willing to get on TV and act like that, and that he actually got paid
to ringmaster the circus.
  

    <scribbled by dfowlkes Tue 3 Jul 12 10:14>
  

    
Well, shut mah mowth and dress me like a drama queen.

I'd forgotten that Peter Straub calls Kelly Link the "future of
horror."

But she doesn't horrify me at all.  Not like I meant horror to mean.  

And I'm nuts about her writing.  So I guess I get some horror, after
all.

---

Kelly: Loved (1069).  Especially "it's hard to beat the daily horrors
on the news, even for a talented author."

Rocky: Well, I suppose Science Fiction may be derived from hard
science.  But... it's gotten to be a large, mushy tract of land. 
Compare _Red Mars_ with "space opera."

Rocky again: Oh, now you've done it.  I'm bouncing in my seat, trying
to keep myself from pestering you with all these house-buying
questions.  (It's so overwhelming.)

Will: I'm sure the TB thing will be fine.  Everyone with patient
contact here in the hospital has to take the test.  And even those who
test positive are rarely sick.  It just means they're carrying the
antibodies, or something.  Half the populations of some countries have
been exposed to TB and are doing fine.  But best of luck; hope it's all
fine.

<streak>: Read the first three vampire books (Interview, Lestat and
Queen) by Rice, and then lost interest.  I've haven't read enough of
Iain M. Banks or Poppy Z. to say definitely yay or nay, but I liked
_Excession_, but didn't care for Poppy's short story.  Haven't read the
other.
  

    
Dan Guy~Well, if you *do* get extra copies of "Goldfish" maybe we can
do a trade for one.
I'm making silver, and silver & copper foil, bookmarks as presents
this year...
  

    
Thanks for the wishes, guys.  I'm leaning most toward Pamela's
philosophy; I'm not really worried.  I've been especially wary the past
couple of months (I was in advertising.  If America is the Devil, we
were the Devil's PR.  So), but haven't had a cold in more than a year. 
It was a shock, more than anything, and, once that went away, it was
like, um.  Chest x-ray?  Okay... if you really think that's necessary.

Tara- that's the first time anyone answered that question for me. 
Thank you.  Seems I've only written one short story, then.

Erynn- Really?  Wouldn'ta thought.  A friend of mine sent it to me by
e-mail.  Huh.  Still decent (I think I still like Travis' cover of it
more.  Now *that's* funny.  Quick story; they used it in an overseas
commercial, and one of the producers I work for was trying to choose a
director for a spot, and it came up.  And it's the guy singing, but I
was like, I *know* this song.  What *is* this?  It cut off just before
the chorus, just when I had it figured out, and I was like Hey!  That
was that Britney Spears song!  And the producer didn't believe me).

Streak- Of the four, Anne Rice is the only one I've actually given a
real chance to.  I'm not a fan; I don't like her style most of the
time.  It's too ornate, too baroque.  It's dense and crammed and it
makes me feel claustrophobic.  I think sometimes I'd just like to tell
her to stop the damned writing and tell me the damned story.  Tim
Powers is high on my list of gotta-read-one-day.  Not a big fan of
vampires, so I've never had the inclination to try Brite.  And Banks;
the name's familiar, but that's about it.  I'll be looking him up when
I next go to the library.
  

    
Neil: I appreciated (1082).  As always, it's a pleasure when you talk
about writing.  I've added the paragraph about crossing to the other
side of the street to my rapidly growing library of Neil quotes.

-P
"Let's understand the power of our pens."
--Tori Amos, in interview by Will Hermes, Spin magazine, October 2001
  

    
I like Iain Banks but don't really care for Iain M. Banks.  I think Tim
Powers is a sweetheart and his books are fun reads.  Anne Rice wrote one
interesting book and then started doing something else.  And Poppy Brite
can write, but I'm not particularly drawn to her work.
  

    
Streak,  you said, "I'm curious as to what all of you various people
think of the works of the following four authors: Tim Powers, Anne
Rice, Iain M. Banks, and Poppy Z. Brite." I've never read Banks or
Powers. Anne Rice I have, and I actually liked Cry to Heaven (? it's
been a while), which centers around a castrato in Venice, if I remember
correctly. I've read Brite as well, and while I don't regret reading
her books, there's a sub-level or something that is missing, which is
the key to almost everything I like, and definitely everything I love.
I'm not sure what it is - I've never been able to define it to my
satisfaction - but it's an underlying sweetness laced with absurdity,
or the prominent dark overtones tempered by something, that's missing.
I ascribe it to my peculiar taste, which makes explanation easier, if
more evasive. In musical terms, it would be the dynamics of the piece,
and the chord progressions - for me, Brite just doesn't have much
contrast within the stories of hers I've read - it's all dissonance. I
don't know whether or not I am making sense to any of you. Oh well. To
make a short post long, I have tepid feelings for Brite's work.
  

    
... in the meantime: 

DAMN, but you're a rather prolific lot! I'm with Martha on the number
of posts. And in only having 10 minutes to read them in, I'm sorry if
I'm missing half the conversations going on.

Any way, just wanted to pop in to say that the in-store with VNV went
ab-fab. Ronan is a silly monkey, but he's got nothing on some of the
employees here while in his presence. 

And :P to Neil for making me blush without even being there
(incidentally, Ronan is a Neil fan).

squeaks, who will get back to real work now.
  

    
squeaks: I'm so glad the in-store went well!!!

Okay: Just because I'm visual, and I like to see pretty pictures of
people we're talking to... I've--goddess help me--joined Xanga.  (Don't
get your expectations up.  I don't plan it to be anything more than a
crash-flat and a place to store stuff occasionally.)  There are
pictures there.  Scary pictures.  And I have no idea what I'm doing, so
they're larger than life, because I didn't have time to figure out how
to get them smaller.  Anyway:

http://www.xanga.com/home.asp?user=Pamela_bird

Have a great weekend everybody.

Smooches!

-P
  

    
Dan~ Re: DK2 I got it as well, and loved it becuase it made me yell at
the charcters, which I haven't done in a long time.

Rocky~ I actually thing that B5 episode is more spirtitual then
anything else.

Jerry Springer used to be something I could watch once in awhile when
I thought my life was bad, and say at least it's not *that* bad. Now I
cringe when i watch it, and think it's an awful thing. Richard Bey was
frightening,....and mid-day/midnight talk shows are things that remind
me of cyber-punk novels. That and Japanesse game shows.

Jinxie who gets to wear jeans tomorrow to work
  

    
The Absolutely Barking Mad BlogRing has reached 13! What have I
started?!
More importantly, should we have a party? 

JaNell, who's been enjoying the most glorious misty, light jacket sort
of night on the 11th St. Expresso House porch, with the added bonus of
ToriBat, various other friends, and a Tylenol Allergy/Sinus medication
buzz...
  

    
Martha - obviously I need to keep you more directly informed of things
because the Artistic Director of the theatre is a
giant-sized-flake-boy. *sigh* I guess he just got overwhelmed, because
he told me that he "might" want me to do the adaptation but that you
had expressed some possible interest in it... then a few days later
asked me how soon I could have it done. I assumed (always a big
mistake) that he had talked to you and you were too busy. Obviously, I
was wrong. I like the guy... I consider him a good friend.. but talk
about letting things fall through the cracks!

Will - Yeah, I'm TB positive too... apparantly a LOT of us are. It was
a real bitch because I had to go through the rigimarole a couple of
times betwen changing colleges and going into Grad school. Ultimately,
it means nothing.. but that's no reason not to make you jump through a
bunch of hoops.

Streak - I've actually never read any of them except for Rice, and
that was waaaay back in Junior High. 

Neil - Oh! I like that description of Horror as it relates to not
going to the lit side of the street even when something is rustling in
the bushes. It's so very "Get out of the house you idiot! No! Don't go
into the basement!! What are you thinking??"

Squeaks - screw real work... (did I say that out loud??)
  

    
stagewalker, way back at the wrap party, he mentioned about what if I wanted
to do an adaptation myself, and I said, "You know, that's something I should
think about" and told him to get back to me--I thought.  Never heard a word
that he was gonna do the story or anything from him....
  

    
JaNell -   Yikes! I plead exhaustion.  

Streak -  I've read everyone except Iain Banks. Loved the Vampire
Chronicles right up to The Vampire Lestat because Queen of the Damned
turned out to be severely disappointing. The story took off on a
tangent that made no sense, not to mention the ending which was just
plain silly. The same thing happened with the the Mayfair Witches whose
magic petered out with Lasher.  No complaints with her historical
novels, Cry to Heaven and Feast of All Saints were a pleasure to read. 
And agree with Neil, the first Beauty book was gonzo and passionate. 
However, the law of diminishing returns can be applied to the last two
books in the series. Tim Powers writes books that grab you and won't
let go. Please read The Stress of Her Regard. I've read Poppy Z.
Brite's Love in Vein and have a copy of Exquisite Corpse still waiting
to be read. 

Jinx -  Especially because it brought closure to painful events
affecting several of the characters.  Made me want to weep for Londo
knowing what lay ahead and getting a taste of what might have been.
That episode fit in so seamlessly....  

Stagewalker - T.B? Ouch. Sending good vibes your way.



 
  

    
*blushes*
You guys are going to give me an ego,... or aspirations to actually
write,...  ;-)
-Kelly
  

    
<streak> - Anne Rice I used to love. Then she settled into a very
specific style (rather than trying to expand on a basic one) and for a
while the books were still very good as long as you didn't read the
last 3-5 pages (unless you're really into Disney endings for your
otherwise dark-themed works). Poppy I've only read 1 1/2 of so far, and
while she's not the best writer out there, she tends to keep my
interest in a story and when I'm done with it, I'm very glad to have
read it. I think I know what Maure means about missing something, but
I'm not sure what. 

DanW - Funny you should tell me to 'screw' work, as one of the signs
recently left on a bin of cds to put away read "Do not put out until
after we close". The sign was moved after the cds were put away and
someone else at work read the sign in a very different light. It's now
happily posted on one of the filing cabinets. :)

Kelly - Write! :)

Went to Cartoon Art Museum after work today. Missed talking to Sergio
Aragones by about 5 minutes. The new location is much bigger than the
old one, and they have so much cool stuff on exhibit! Lots of Piraro,
tons of Jeff Smith, and so much Gorey goodness. Go there. It is good.

Okay, off to bed. Carolling all day in SF tomorrow. 10 straight hours
of singing... with a voice strained from singing along at the show last
night (er, screaming/singing - it's all one).

squeaks, who was supposed to be in bed 2 hours ago. 
  

    
Anne Rice-loved the first 3 vampire books, liked Feast of All Saints
and the first witches book very much, have found the rest of them to
be...fluff, really.  

Never read Poppy Z. Brite or Tim Powers.  

Can't remember which Iain (M. or no)) Banks this is, but An Instance
of the Fingerpost is bloody brilliant.  *Loved* it (for probably
obvious reasons).

I think I've found the floor in my living room.  Am thrilled.  Now if 
just had a place to put all the crap I've unpacked (yes, I'm jolly
well aware that I've lived here since May.  Bugger off)

Mary (reading The Amazing Maurice & adoring PTerry at the moment)