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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #26 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Sun 19 May 02 07:36
permalink #26 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Sun 19 May 02 07:36
up in #18, Mitsu asked: > in addition to the portraits of the San-shin spirits, to what > extent is there present in Korean art a tendency to make paintings > or drawings of the physical mountains themselves? This is hardly ever done in San-shin paintings-- much to my surprise over the years. I wonder why not? Mountains are usually shown in the background of these paintings, as you can see in my book or on the website, but they are almost always stylized idealized mountains and not identifiable as any particular ones, by shape or other characteristic. You would think that the artistic would try to depict the particular mountain whose spirit he is painting... but I'm not sure that I've ever definitely seen that. There there is one icon show in my book in which the background peak is obviously the great extinct volcano on the border between North Korea and China called Baekdu-san [White-head Mountain]. That is the highest peak on the peninsula, and since the early 20th century has been maybe the most sacred mountain of all, a symbol of all that is holy in Korea and of the aspirations for national reunification. But this painting is enshrined in a temple at a second-class mountain in the south, not up at Baekdu-san; so it's just as a religious symbol and not as a physical depiction. Early Korean aristocratic landscape painting followed the Chinese Sung Dynasty way of idealized fantastic-shaped mountains. Starting in the late seventeenth century after 75 years of horrific foreign invasions, however, there was a new movement of realistically painting the actual mountains (and folk-scenes) of Korea. This produced some of the greatest national-treasure masterpieces, but never carried over into the paintings of Mountain-spirits which also started around the same time. I really have no idea why, except landscape painters were aristocrats and painters of San-shins were low-class artisans (although some did very fine art!). I'd like to know why....
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #27 of 234: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Sun 19 May 02 09:33
permalink #27 of 234: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Sun 19 May 02 09:33
David, in the book you mentioned that San-shin shrines still exist in North Korea, but that there are apparently no practitioners. I'm wondering if you've learned anything further about the state of religious practice, in general, in North Korea today. I gather that you're not able to travel there yourself, but do you have (or have access to) correspondence with anyone in the North?
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #28 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Sun 19 May 02 20:19
permalink #28 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Sun 19 May 02 20:19
That's right, I'm a USA citizen and thus not able to travel to North Korea myself (along with most South Koreans), except for the fenced- off Diamond Mountains just across the DMZ on the East Coast. I went up there for 3 days over this past New Year's Eve, with my wife and boss and a dozen ambassadors-to-Seoul. Stunningly beautiful, even in the bitterly-cold winter. But so desolate -- no North Koreans in sight except the soldiers; no temple sites can be visited. I follow news reports about North Korea closely (as my LIFE depends on how the end-game goes there!), and have corresponded with some travellers who've been there (Canadians Euros Aussies etc can visit although it's very restricted & expensive). I wrote the North Korea chapter in Lonely Planet's KOREA guidebook in 1996/7, so i'm quite familiar with the details. No, i don't have "correspondence with anyone in the North" -- nobody does. No mail, no phone, no e-mail. Utterly cut off from the world, except a few narrow gov-controlled channels. Weird. Horrific. The #1 very worst government in the entire world, it is fair to say. During the Korean War the US Air Force pretty much bombed every building in the North, down to farmer's outhouses; very few historic structures remain there. Some of the greatest Buddhist temples were rebuilt by the gov, in some cases including the San-shin shrines -- according to photos i've seen. But those are just empty buildings; all ministers, monks & shamans were forcibly secularized in the 1950s, if they resisted they were killed. Many fled to the south. None left up north, and there's no practice or practitioners of any sort of religion or folk-belief that we know of. The state retains a monopoly on religion for its own "Juche" cult -- really, the entire nation is a giant paranoid armed-to-the-teeth David Koresh / Waco kind of semi-shamanic cult! The surviving artwork in those temples has mostly been removed by the Army, we hear, and sold in China for cash-to-stash. The S K gov supposedly has a secret fund/operation to buy up the best of it in Hong Kong etc and save in warehouses for the inevitable reunifica- tion. I hope that's true. I hope the purchases include some great old San-shin paintings...
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #29 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Sun 19 May 02 20:36
permalink #29 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Sun 19 May 02 20:36
But, there's exciting New News on this. The N K gov has never permitted any sort of spiritual activity on it's soil, including in that cut-off tourist-area of the Diamond Mountains (formerly a very sacred set of peaks). However, just 6 weeks ago they suddenly allowed an association of several dozen S K shamans (and 200 followers) to come up to those Diamond Mountains (by ship, the only access) and conduct a full- scale Mountain-spirit Ceremony! They did it at the ruins of Shingye Temple (which S K Buddhists have offered to reconstruct). They also held a ritual for the Dragon-King at the beautiful area where the mountains reach the East Sea. I have photos of this historic event (from a journalist who went); i'll get them up on my web-site as soon as i find the time. Now, WHY did the northern authorities permit that ritual, after 50 years of suppressing such...? I'd love to know, but they aren't talking (whoever is "they" is not even known). Clearly, they're softening up on national-identity/culture stuff, starting with Dan- gun (mythical Founder-King) and proceeding to San-shin, which is exactly what i predicted in my Chapter 4 (on the future of San-shin in Korea; see all that discussion of N K there) !! Very exciting for me! I'll be watching this closely as it develops. I'd send the leaders copies of my book, if there was any postal service to them...
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #30 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Sun 19 May 02 20:53
permalink #30 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Sun 19 May 02 20:53
up in #18, Mitsu asked me about: > the extent to which you might feel Korean shamanism and/or the > San-shin tradition can be found influencing everyday Korean > customs and culture. Very few Koreans will admit to you that they visit fortune-tellers or bow/donate at San-shin shrines or patronize Shamans. But hey, SOMEbody is keeping thousands of professionals employed full-time and financing the construction of ever-fancier shrines... When a new building etc starts construction or is opened these days, it has become common to hold a Shamanic Ceremony, incl a San-shin ritual. But other than those -- not much. > That is to say, not so much the conscious awareness of this, but > rather unconscious habits of interaction or ways of thinking or > perceiving. In what ways does it show up in language and/or > customs and/or societal structures, as you have observed? Very interesting question, sure. But i'm not a Professor of Social Psychology, so have no research or speculations of my own. I've read some authors who posit that the Korean mind works in layers that follow religious history -- a Shamanic core dominating the sub- conscious, a layer of Buddhism over that, a strong layer of Neo- Confucianism over THAT, and now a layer of modern-westernism covering all, superficially. Makes sense to me, fits with what i've seen, but i can't speak to validity of this theory. Recent Korean language, customs and social structures remain very different from Euro-American models, of course. They are influenced heavily by the Korean past, without a doubt. But i won't go out on a limb on exactly which has led to what...
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #31 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Mon 20 May 02 00:26
permalink #31 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Mon 20 May 02 00:26
I would imagine North Korean leaders are opening up in these ways primarily because they are desperate. Very sad tragedy unfolding in the North. Is Korean shamanism primarily an oral tradition, or are there many extant texts describing the practices? Do they have a tradition of secret texts? Is the lack of Korean scholarship on San-shin paintings accompanied by a similar lack of scholarship regarding Korean shamanism as a whole?
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #32 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 20 May 02 05:21
permalink #32 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 20 May 02 05:21
> I would imagine North Korean leaders are opening up in these ways > primarily because they are desperate. I dunno. Surely most of their recent "opening" (the barest crack of the door) has been out of desperation, trying to elicit cash & food from the South and foreigners -- to keep the army content and the elite in power. But what benefit do they get from allowing S K shamans to do a Mountain-spirit Ceremony? That won't impress other powers a whit, and not even impress the S K decision-makers much (they probably have little support for "old superstitions"). Now, maybe this Association of S K Shamans managed to give a huge amount of cash or rice to the N K authorities behind the scenes, and thus got permission for this, who knows? But i look at it, perhaps too optimisticly, as part of the early stage of an ideological change. Just like what has happened in China -- the previous ruling philosophy (Marxism, Maoism, Juche) is dead, dysfunctional, nobody really believes anymore. So the dictatorship turns to raw Nation- alism to keep people pumped-up & distracted, and justify their power. This fits with the legitimization of the Dan-gun myth ("It is true history!", Pyeongyang now says) starting 7 or so years ago. San-shin is the next step... The bad news is, hysterical isolationist-nationalism isn't going to make them any easier to deal with than paranoid isolationist- communism ever did. But i *do* regard re-instating important elements of traditional Korean culture as possible first steps towards sanity, and allowing re-unification someday on the cultural level.
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #33 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 20 May 02 06:05
permalink #33 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 20 May 02 06:05
> Is Korean shamanism primarily an oral tradition, or are there > many extant texts describing the practices? Oral. As it was ignored / supressed by the Confucians for 300 years or so just as much as by the authorites of the 20th Century, there are very few records or scripts of any sort before about 1980. Some reports of observations by Chrisian missionaries 1885-1925 are valuable, tho of course biased and uncomprehending. > Do they have a tradition of secret texts? No. Some of the semi-shamanic "new religion" cults promote their "formerly secret but now unveiled ancient text", but those all seem bogus. > Is the lack of Korean scholarship on San-shin paintings > accompanied by a similar lack of scholarship regarding Korean > shamanism as a whole? Until the '80s there wasn't much at all. Most of the scholarship on Korean Shamanism that has followed, and there is now a lot from both Korean and foreign researchers, has focused on sociological / anthropological studies of the Shamans themselves -- their lives & status, or logging the exact rituals they do. Since the Shamans are mostly (poor) women, there's a lot of sympathetic feminist-slanted stuff coming out. For the best of the western books, see the fine works by Laurel Kendall. What has NOT been done much is work on the actual deities themselves as subjects of research, as agents acting and evolving thru Korean cultural history. That's where i saw a yawning gap and a need, and jumped on in. There are plenty of others besides San-shin, but none nearly so interesting -- none so central, so common, so intricately linked with all major religious / philosophical traditions.
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #34 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Mon 20 May 02 08:12
permalink #34 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Mon 20 May 02 08:12
>what benefit do they get Well, Castro allowed the Pope to visit a little while ago, presumably also to gain some goodwill capital. I imagine that it is a combination of this and the fact that many North Koreans, party members or not, probably secretly hold some affinity for or perhaps at least agnosticism with respect to the old shamanism... But I hope you're right about an actual ideological change. In any case once reunification occurs, well, everything will change. >none so central Speaking of which, I am curious to know what the relationship is between the San-shin and other shamanic deities in the system. Is San-shin thought to be "above" the others, first among equals, or is there not such a notion of clear hierarchy among them? Are there also shamanistic deities associated with, say, streams, lakes, and so forth --- i.e., other natural features?
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #35 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Mon 20 May 02 08:18
permalink #35 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Mon 20 May 02 08:18
An additional question regarding North Korea which is somewhat off the topic but I can't help but ask --- from your vantage point, how is the process of reunification going? Is it moving forward, likely to happen soon, etc.?
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #36 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 20 May 02 20:43
permalink #36 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 20 May 02 20:43
There are various hierarchy-systems among all the shamanic deities and the Buddhist & Daoist ones and etc -- it very much depends who you talk to! Since there is no "bible" or "Vatican" of Shamanism, (and Hinduism, Buddhism & Daoism are all quite loosely structured compared to the mono-theisms), each pratitioners follows their own beliefs & practices -- what "works" for them -- whether they make them up themselves or learn/adapt a system from a teacher or book. Many here will tell you that there is a hierarchy of Heavenly, Earthly and Underground (Hell) spirits, and since San-shin is of the Earth, he/she fits in the 'middle ranks'. When "Assembly of the Gaurdian Spirits" paintings were first made and enshrined in Buddhist temples in the 1700s-1800s, no Mountain- Spirits could be found in them. Then theyy started to include San- shin, but as one figure amoung many in, yes, the 'middle ranks', only head & one hand showing. But in the 19th Century works he is frequently found at the bottom, up front and prominent, full body shown with elaborate details. See pages 113-117 in my book. In 20th -Cen paintings San-shin is always prominent, easy to find. See the middle of: http://www.san-shin.org/newdis4.html for one example. And http://www.san-shin.org/newdis7.html for more modern cases, one quite unique (includes the tiger). San-shin used to play second-fiddle to the Seven Stars of the Big Dipper [Chil-seong-shin] and others. But without a doubt, among all the Shamanic deities of Korea, it has become the primary one, rising far beyond all others. As mentioned above, it's the only one so intricately linked with all major religious/philosophical traditions and also with such deep connection to the National Identity. Maybe also it's the one that represents what people experience in their daily life, that means a lot to them deep-down -- the mountains and Nature. Certainly, it's the only one still evolving in meaning and form, and having elaborate new shrines built to it (in ever more public locations -- see http://www.san-shin.org/seongmo1.html and the next page... the Seven Stars got nothing going like that! > Are there also shamanistic deities associated with, say, streams, > lakes, and so forth --- i.e., other natural features? Yes, they are thought to contain -- to be manifestations of -- spirits. Especially waterfalls and their pools. But these are not highly-developed, human-form deities like San-shin. Mostly, people just bow to them out in nature, make a small offering of food/liquor if they're acknowleged at all. The Dragon-King of the Waters is the catch-all spirit for bodies of water -- see pages 110-111 for photos and explanation.
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #37 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 20 May 02 23:07
permalink #37 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 20 May 02 23:07
> ...regarding North Korea ... how is the process of reunification > going? Is it moving forward, likely to happen soon, etc.? Not much visible progress at all. When Prez Kim Dae-jung's Sunshine Policy led to his stunning summit-visit to Pyeongyang, schmoozing with a friendly, reasonable and respectful Kim Jong-il (son of the late "Great Leader", who is now a shamanic deity himself up there), here was a great surge of hope. And a Nobel Peace Prize for KDJ (thank gopod they were wise enuff to NOT include KJI in that, like they included Arafat with Perez! they learned something...). That was June 2000. But since then there's been nothing but disappointment, as KJI / NK has not followed thru on ANY of the agreements they made. They just continue to dribble out small concesions (like agreeing to hold yet more talks) as ways to get more aid (food for the soldiers & favored classes). They frequently still resort to abusive insulting propa- ganda announcements or outright military blackmail to get more rice or cash. The public here has lost most hope that being nice to them is ever going to accomplish anything. Japan is so disgusted with NK behavior that it has stopped all aid -- *all*. Even China & Russia won't help them beyond a minimum. So, the "process of reunification" is going nowhere, dead in the water like an NK submarine. It looks like the amazingly evil NK Gov (and i don't use that term lightly) can keep on truckin' as long as their control of the guns and death-camps remains firm. Not much anybody can do but wait, watch their population suffer. But then, there's the example of Romania -- only 6 quick days from when the first crack in a pillar showed to the Great Dictator being shot like a dog in a muddy field. North Korea could collapse in a day or two, and it could be *any* day -- some General decides to make a move, has enough troops behind him, and *splat* the whole house-of -cards comes down in wild bloody chaos. This Would Be Bad -- i hope i'm on vacation somewhere when/if it happens... > the fact that many North Koreans, party members or not, probably > secretly hold some affinity for or perhaps at least agnosticism > with respect to the old shamanism... a fact? i wish i could know. But as i said, they ain't talking. > But I hope you're right about an actual ideological change. we all REALLY hope for a peaceful evolutionary change, like Russia, China, South Africa and etc. rather than violent collapse / war. > once reunification occurs, well, everything will change. Yep, everything. There is pretty much *nothing* in North Korea, from philosophy to songs to electric generators to clothing, that is in any way useful or viable in the modern world.
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #38 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Tue 21 May 02 00:05
permalink #38 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Tue 21 May 02 00:05
A follow-up: though San-shin are considered "middle-level" deities, would you say that there are more rituals or people devoting time to them than the other Korean shamanistic deities? You talk a lot about stories of people who eventually become San-shin. I am curious how many folk tales/legends there are which actually feature San- shin (i.e., not before they become San-shin, but afterwards) as characters? I.e., characters that have dialogue, etc. Or are San-Shin seen more as entities that protect and/or defend without really saying very much? I'd also like to hear you speak more about the idea of San-shin as it might relate to Gregory Bateson's ideas. I have long been an enthusiastic fan of Bateson's work, and I was intrigued by your references to him. Can you give more details on how you might feel San-shin relates to Bateson's concepts?
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #39 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 21 May 02 07:03
permalink #39 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 21 May 02 07:03
> though San-shin are considered "middle-level" deities, would you > say that there are more rituals or people devoting time to them > than the other Korean shamanistic deities? Definitely, yes. The 'middle' ranking is purely in theory, within the non-Buddhist deities said to defend Buddhism (the teachings, the holy places and the monks) by the Hwa-eom [Hua-yen] Sutra. Korean shamans have always regarded the Mountain-spirit as at least one of the most important in their practice, from what we do know about them; is usually the first to be invoked and supplicated during a long exorcism or fortune-seeking ritual ceremony. As I said above, these days San-shin has no real rival as far as the amount of time money attention and shrine building devoted to it. Running behind the Seven Stars, the Lonely Saint (a disciple of the Buddha) and the Dragon King. They may once have been equal, but in the last generation or two San-shin has gotten far more juice. I have a funny sort of nerdy rivalry over this going with a woman professor from Oxford -- when I gave my speech on San-shin in 1990's Korea, she actually heckled me from the audience and then used up most of my question time, insisting that the Seven Stars were and are and always will be "number one"! She got quite agitated about this; I was embarrassed and nobody else in the audience knew or cared. She was coming from an entirely theoretical place on it, and I could grant her point in theory, but I have a decade and 10,000 miles of experience in the field that she doesn't. I had a hundred photos with me right there to prove my case, and she had nothing but ideas of how it was supposed to be... I've run into this several times, big respected professors who spent some months in Korea talking to three shamans and two monks, think that they've got all the answers on the final truth about this stuff and write books pontificating "THIS is how it is, they believe this way and do like this", real simple. But my analyzed database of 800 shrines nationwide (and hundred or more practitioners interviewed) shows a far more complex and contradictory picture, with many more exceptions to the rules they posit than examples that follow them...
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #40 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 21 May 02 07:20
permalink #40 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 21 May 02 07:20
There are many folk tales/legends which feature San-shin as active characters, that speak dialogue, make judgments and decisions, have interests and concerns, etc. They are not necessarily real people who have become San-shin, they can just be "regular" San-shin. But I can't tell you how many. The primary source for old Korean stories is the Sam-guk Yusa [Legends of the Three Kingdoms] written by a great Buddhist monk in 1170 or so. An an invaluable resource for everyone who studies Korean traditions. I found at least a dozen good stories that include San-shin in it. For those who are really interested, I refer you to the 450-page _Myths and Legends from Korea_ by Sheffield University professor James Grayson, Curzon Press 2001. Tons of good stuff in there. {Although James & i disagree on a key aspect of San-shin's identity; we've argued about it some on the internet with no resolution; I mentioned his ideas and my dispute of them in the book}.
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #41 of 234: Elisabeth Wickett (wickett) Tue 21 May 02 08:38
permalink #41 of 234: Elisabeth Wickett (wickett) Tue 21 May 02 08:38
_Spirit of the Mountains_ is indeed a stunning book and I feel very privileged to have read it. Are San-Shin stories told to modern children in Korea? Is the vivacity of the belief being passed on in that most basic of cultural ways? Or is it introduced to the young more culturally and religiously?
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #42 of 234: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Tue 21 May 02 10:12
permalink #42 of 234: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Tue 21 May 02 10:12
Excellent questions, Elisabeth. I was wondering the same. Also, how much (if any) is taught in primary or secondary education?
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #43 of 234: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Tue 21 May 02 10:57
permalink #43 of 234: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Tue 21 May 02 10:57
From what I've learned about Korean martial arts, apparently the Japanese devoted much effort to influencing - if not overhauling outright - many aspects of Korean culture during their occupation. One result was that older Korean martial art forms, such as Tae Kyun and Su Bak Do, were surpressed and Japanase styles dominated Korean martial arts, despite the use of Korean names such Tang Su Do (which was for the most part Japanese Karate). After the Japanese occupation ended, Koreans adopted Tae Kwon Do in a spirit of renewed nationalism, and it was supposed to represent a "getting back to Korean roots" movement. But even as late as the mid-60s, many were still using the name "Korean Karate" (Karate being a Japanese word). And many older generation Korean Tae Kwon Do masters continued to use Japanese words, such as "gi" (uniform) and "kata" (movement pattern), instead of the Korean words, "dobak" and "pum seh," respectively. In other words, even though the Korean name, Tae Kwon Do, was adopted, the art itself was still very Japanese in style. When the post-WWII generation came of age, the actual practice of Tae Kwon Do was decisively overhauled to rid it as much as possible of its former Japanese influence. This could be seen in the dramatic difference between the old and new pum-seh, for instance the old "pal-geh" versus the new "tae-guk" series. Did the Japanese try to alter San-shin or other Korean religious practices in a similar way? If so, to what extent did they succeed, and was there a similar movement afterward to recover from it?
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #44 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 21 May 02 20:25
permalink #44 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 21 May 02 20:25
You're quite right about the Taekwondo case. By the way, those last two terms you mentioned for series of moves are now spelled pal-gwae [eight diagrams (trigrams of the I Ching)] and tae-geuk [the grand ultimate (yin-yang symbol)]. During the first half (the soft part) of their imperial occupation of Korea 1910-1945, the Japanese mostly ignored Korean folk-culture and didn't try to alter it. During the second half (the militarist part) they actively tried to wipe out Korean culture and replace it with their own, or with subjegated-to-Japan versions. Korean folk- religious practices such as San-shin and Dan-gun ceremonies were suppressed, and Japanese Shinto (shamanic, but Emperor-centered) was harshly imposed. I used to know an 80-yr-old Neo-Confucian scholar, one of the last of the old Joseon-Dynasty types and a real fish-out-of-water in 1988 -91 post-Olympics Korea. My wife's Chinese-character teacher Grand- father Song Heon spent his youth 1930-45 maintaining & doing rituals at a top-secret shrine for Dan-gun, San-shin and other "National Patriarchs" in the deep forest on Man-i Mountain on Kanghwa Island (big island just west of Seoul). He and friends risked torture-to- death if caught, but they never were. He took us there in 1990, shortly before his passing (but he climbed to the 400-m peak!); the old shrine still exists (tho was rebuilt for repair), ceremonies are still performed there regularly. After the Korean War, there was recovery and great expansion of San-shin practices. The only direct effect from the Japanese that i can tell is that their policies & actions drasticly spurred the development of Korean nationalism / patriotism, and that has surely benefitted San-shin who is spiritual Patriarch / Matriarch of the nation. Again, see my http://www.san-shin.org/seongmo1.html
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #45 of 234: Linda Castellani (castle) Tue 21 May 02 20:33
permalink #45 of 234: Linda Castellani (castle) Tue 21 May 02 20:33
Oh! Is there a Korean version of the I Ching?
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permalink #46 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Tue 21 May 02 21:08
permalink #46 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Tue 21 May 02 21:08
I'm glad to hear that Taekwondo has returned to its Korean roots. I was always puzzled by that martial art, because it seemed very "hard" and yet I was told that a very old Taekwondo master moved in extremely soft ways. I studied Japanese martial arts for eight years, and I have studied Chinese for about two and a half years. My teacher said that the original karate was intended to be soft, but it had been changed or corrupted into this very "hard" form later, which to him was a corruption of the original form. Your description of the Japanese occupation parallels developments in Japan. The original impetus behind the Meiji restoration was a progressive reform of Japanese society --- the Meiji revolutionaries were samurai, like my family, and they instituted a variety of liberal reforms, including democracy, equality, the abolishing of the class system (including their own samurai class!), and so forth. But over time this original idea was lost, and for a variety of reasons too complicated to get into here, a strange corruption of Japanese culture occurred, and a militaristic corrupted distortion of both the original ideals of the Meiji revolution as well as the ideals of the original Japanese samurai came to power. As these fools took power, at first slowly (in the 10's and 20's) and then more quickly (in the 30's), the behavior of Japan abroad deteriorated, apparently, corrupting and destroying foreign cultures --- but before they did that, they also corrupted and destroyed their own Japanese culture. It makes me almost physically ill to think about it.
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #47 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 21 May 02 21:10
permalink #47 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 21 May 02 21:10
> _Spirit of the Mountains_ is indeed a stunning book and I feel > very privileged to have read it. Thank-you very much Elisabeth Wickett, and welcome to our discussion! > Are San-Shin stories told to modern children in Korea? > Is the vivacity of the belief being passed on in that most > basic of cultural ways? Or is it introduced to the young > more culturally and religiously? Well, San-shin appears in little children's story-books that retell old myths from the Sam-guk Yusa and etc; those are not as popular as the Disney stuff of course but they are sold all around. Christian parents would never buy them... Those tykes lucky enough to have grandparents from a rural village who tells them bedtime stories... but i have no experience or specific knowledge of this > #42 of 44: Gerry Feeney (gerry) > how much (if any) is taught in primary or secondary education? Not much at all. Protestant Christians (20% of the population, but concentrated in professionals, gov officials, other elite groups) have waged war against Korea's folk traditions for 50 years now, and they are especially sensitive to what the kids are taught. Think of a teacher in a Kansas school at Halloween, trying to get some Wicca across to her students... the reaction is similar. Like in the USA, the religious/culture-wars and seperation-of-church -and-state-mandate has led to kids not being taught much of anything at all that smacks of religion in public schools. And the only private schools there are here are Christian. The result is college students amazingly ignorant of religious traditions, even their own (and bring up Islam or Hinduism, fergitabowdit). That leaves them quite vulnerable to on-campus recruitment by weird cults (like the famous Moonies) and extremeist/fundamentalist Christian groups. This always bugged me during my 12 years as a Prof. I tried to teach "overview of world religions" and "Korean spiritual traditions" lecture/discussions in my English Conversation classes, try to make an improvement. Some students were really turned-on, grateful; I even ran an after-hours "Sam-guk Yusa In English Study Group" during my final two years, which was enthusiasticly attended. It was deliberately modeled after the many on-campus after-hours "Bible In English Study Group"s which so many Korean students use to practice their English (even if they aren't really christian)(yet). I just switched the text, to the "bible" of Korean traditions... At that time i had a really good prof job at the rural-mountain campus of Korea's academically-best university, Yonsei (i got my MA in K Studies from their main campus in Seoul). But, that school was founded 110 years ago by American protestant missionaries. They still thake their Christian identity very seriously. So, there were complaints, from both students and other profs. Just when I came up for tenure, i was abruptly fired (with zero due-process) for "teaching inappropriate things to the students". They said that as i'm a real american, i was expected to teach only *american* culture (meaning, to them, protestant beliefs if any religion at all) in my classes or after-hours groups. That's right, can ya believe it?, i was thrown out of a top Korean university for preaching Korean culture! The irony never stops...
inkwell.vue.150
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #48 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Tue 21 May 02 21:18
permalink #48 of 234: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Tue 21 May 02 21:18
As I understand it, Christianity was seen to be anti-Japanese, and it does seem terribly ironic that part of the legacy of the destruction of true Japanese culture that the militarists engaged in was the lasting resistance amongst some Koreans to their *own* culture.
inkwell.vue.150
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #49 of 234: (fom) Tue 21 May 02 22:12
permalink #49 of 234: (fom) Tue 21 May 02 22:12
>Japanese Shinto (shamanic, but Emperor-centered) was harshly imposed That would be the subset called "State Shinto," right? Not all Shinto is Emperor-centered, as I understand it.
inkwell.vue.150
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David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
permalink #50 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 22 May 02 02:30
permalink #50 of 234: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 22 May 02 02:30
Right, (fom). The militarists kidnapped Shintro in the 1920s / 30s. I don't know how centralized it is now, nor how tied in to Emperor- cult stuff. Don't kno nearly as much about Japan as i should, or would like to. For example, i still have never been to Mt. Fuji... just too damn expensive to travel there even tho i'm right next-door. > #45 of 49: Linda Castellani (castle) > Oh! Is there a Korean version of the I Ching? No, not a seperate version. The Koreans call it the Ju-yeok [Changes of the Chou (dynasty)], imported it along with the rest of Chinese civilization starting around 2000 years ago. Famous philosophers like Yi Toegye studied its layers of commentaries and added some of their own. It's still used by some fortune-tellers, still studied by the educated. A decade ago a powerful abbot gave my wife and I a rare hardcover 3-volume printing of the Commentary on the I Ching written by a great Korean Zen Master around 1930. We always hoped to translate it to English -- together, we had that ability. Wouldda been quite fascinating! But then she got busy working, and then we divorced... Trigrams and Hexagrams frequently appear on Joseon-dynasty gates, altar-frames, artworks and big bronze bells. Four trigrams appear on the National Flag, of course, making it the world's most philo- sophical flag, and my favorite. Patriotic Independence-fighter An Chang-ho originally put all eight on it, but was persuaded that it looked too cluttered. One thing i've long noticed is that in all these San-shin icons i study, no artist has put the trigram for the Mountain {Keeping Still} --- into one. They should... - - - -
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