inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #76 of 376: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 17 Jun 02 13:18
    
Croz's "Rusty and Blue" is a great love song on the subject of being 
complicated like that, by the way...
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #77 of 376: (fom) Mon 17 Jun 02 13:26
    
(Could I just mention that it would be helpful to readers if all the 
hosts prefaced questions received by email with some kind of note saying 
that's what they are? I notice jonl even puts the name of the person who 
sent the question in his pseud line, along with saying something like 
"Received via email from [name]," which is especially helpful. Several 
times now, I have read a post thinking it was actually a post by the 
person whose name it appears under, only to find a signature at the end.)
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #78 of 376: David Gans (tnf) Mon 17 Jun 02 13:27
    
I'll do that from here on out, fom.  GOod iea.
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #79 of 376: Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Mon 17 Jun 02 14:10
    
>Bill Evans asked ... Do you think that there is any desire on the
part of CSN to record [a studio  acoustic guitar] record, disregarding
the business issues of getting it produced?

Hi Bill ... it's always good to hear from you. There may be a *desire*
to record such a record -- but I have not learned of it, and,
unfortunately, the "business issues" you mention cannot be ignored.

In response to question from <diga> on Saturday, I posted that I would
love to see CSN make a "live in the studio" acoustic/electric record.

Here's hoping it will happen ... sooner than later ... speaking of
later, I must run to my train now, bound for Jersey ... 

I will return in a few hours ...
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #80 of 376: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 17 Jun 02 14:36
    
When I heard "In My Life" from After the Storm, it struck me that it was a
paradigm of a great CSN album that-could-be, featuring covers and
originals in that all-acoustic, Shaker-simple, fully harmonized style.
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #81 of 376: tambourine verde (barb-albq) Mon 17 Jun 02 15:03
    
Me too.
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #82 of 376: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 17 Jun 02 15:59
    
I also think, just pure bu$ine$$-wise, that it would sell like mad.
Basically, that's what people "think" CSN is about, and when they pick up
an album with Stephen waxing roth about "people you never met, hot-wired
to the Net, PowerBook potentates, stay in the limelight, got your own
website" (yes, that's us) over a swamp of over-amped guitars and cheesy 
synths, that there's bad word of mouth, no radio play, and the album -- 
"Looking Forward" in this case -- heads quickly for the discount bin.

I think there's a CSN album that all their fans *want* to happen, and the
funny thing is, in this case, it's not the hyperslick sellout overproduced
record, but the real, acoustic, burnished record they could make with many
less production costs.  It would at least be worth a try!
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #83 of 376: Stephen Barncard (sbarncar) Mon 17 Jun 02 17:32
    
Hi Gang,

Barncard back on the well, thanks to Mr. Gans...
I'd forgotten about the wonderful 'signal-to-noise' ratio on this
forum -- the best on the net. Nice to be back.

A natural space/acoustic album by CSN (Y?)
produced/recorded/directed/whatever by me has been a dream and constant
suggestion by me for years -- since way before the box set. Why it
hasn't happened is beyond me. Guys - I'm ready - anyplace, any time.
Give me an old tube board, a few mics and a three track and I'll do it.

I do remember that the guys were self-financing a new record in 1998
with my good friend Paul Dieter at the controls and perhaps these
values in mind.

I got the call to help find the lost 16 track tape featuring a stellar
live performance by Stills and impromptu harmonies by David and Graham
on 11/17/69 -  and I found it: Heider #708. 

The whole tape was impromptu actually -- the guys just sitting around
the mics at Heider's studio C in SF and goofing around. I was there at
the time as assistant, but Russ Gary's name is on the tape box --  and
Bill Halverson was not there.

The tape started with Fred Neil's 'Everybody's Talkin', then a false
start 'Darlin' Children', then the full length version of the John
Sebastian tune. 

Next a rap about how the Grateful Dead was more fun to jam with than
the Jefferson Airplane and David saying that they just didn't know how
to get it on tape - Stephen replying that he was going to help them do
that. (I actually ended up working with the dead a year later)

 Then Russ Gary gets on the talkback, says they have about 5 minutes
more tape and wondered if he should continue recording while they were
'chattin'.  Damn, he did stop it too..

The tape continues with a couple of stabs at 'Triad' by Crosby, a
really nice acoustic downtempo  'Almost Cut My Hair', and finally 'Song
With No words' with a couple of overdubs by David.

So in 1998, I procured the tape from Nash's Vault and the plan was to
make a copy to 'modern' 24 track and have them work with that. But the
sound on the orignal 16 track was SO GOOD that I convinced them to
overdub onto the orignal tape, which was recorded on Scotch 201- a fine
grain tape but not as high an output that was discontinued in 1973 or
so. 

I ended up being responsible to carry out my idea, which meant driving
through LA traffic at rush hour to get a 16 track Studer head stack
from A&M - only to find out when I got to the studio that the studio
tech had given me the wrong head stack - a 24 - by mistake. 

An hour and more traffic later we popped the heads on the machine and
David and Graham overdubbed their parts on 'Everybody's talkin' to
replace the earlier (where they really didn't know all the words). It
was beautiful! 

I think when I left they were talking about doing Darlin' Children
that way, but they stopped for the day and I left. I don't know if they
ever finished that tune, but I thought they were on a good roll here.

So somehow this record turned into 'Looking Forward' with Neil later
that year, and these songs were forgotten along with another great song
that was written by Allan Thomas -- 'The Navigator' that could have
been appropriate for either David or Stephen.
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #84 of 376: Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Mon 17 Jun 02 17:44
    
Thanks for the insights, sqb ... glad to have you join the discussion.
 I agree with you and the earlier comments by Steve and Barb ... a
"natural space/acoustic album" by CSN would be devine! 

Bon soir from NJ
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #85 of 376: David Gans (tnf) Mon 17 Jun 02 18:15
    
Stephen, thanks for being here!
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #86 of 376: tambourine verde (barb-albq) Mon 17 Jun 02 19:28
    
It would be heaven to have folks just bring all these tapes we hear
about to one location from where they are hiding and just have a
marathon listening party. Might take a month from what we all keep
hearing exists out there. Wets the appetite, if I must say. Hi SQB,
nice story.
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #87 of 376: Gary Lambert (almanac) Mon 17 Jun 02 19:50
    

Really glad to see ya back in these parts, Mr. Barncard!
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #88 of 376: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 17 Jun 02 20:27
    
I had a crush on Stephen Barncard's picture in "If I Could Only Remember 
My Name" when I was in high school (yeah, yeah, I know, for you guys it 
was Laura Allan) and now I have a crush on his wise, friendly soul, 
brilliant musical ear, and a lifetime of producing and recording my 
favorite albums.  Middle age isn't as bad as I feared  :-)
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #89 of 376: Gary Lambert (almanac) Mon 17 Jun 02 21:34
    

I got taken backstage after a Jackson Browne show in Berkeley a few
years ago by a mutual friend of Jackson's and mine. And there was this
very attractive blonde who kept making eye contact with me and smiling,
and who looked maddeningly familiar. Like, I was *sure* I knew her from
somewhere. But then I realized that the only reason she looked familiar
was because she looked strikingly like Laura Allan in that picture from
the gatefold of Croz's album -- and yes, as diga suggests, I *did* have
a little crush on that picture way back when. But, I logically
concluded, it couldn't possibly be Laura Allan, because Laura Allan
would look a *lot* older now than this very youthful beauty, who looks
so reminiscent of the thirty-years-ago Laura. So, at some point, I'm
talking to Jackson, and the mystery woman comes over, and *she* tells me
that *I* look familiar... at which point Jackson introduces me to, yes,
Laura Allan! And damned if I *still* don't have a little crush on her!
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #90 of 376: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 17 Jun 02 23:20
    
Yep.  She's adorable.
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #91 of 376: TheBuzzMan (thebuzzzz) Tue 18 Jun 02 04:44
    
Laura is doing a gig in LA this Saturday night for anyone who is going
to be in the vincinity...
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #92 of 376: Dan Marsh (dam) Tue 18 Jun 02 05:59
    
i am reading the revised book, read the original.

it is a very good read, but after reading the large biography on neil young,
i feel the disagreemnts between csn & y are rather glossed over.

and it was readily apparant to me, that this years csny tour was run by neil
and the song choices were done by neil and the set list order was done by
niel.

so my take is csny does not exist unless y gets his way.
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #93 of 376: Gary Lambert (almanac) Tue 18 Jun 02 07:01
    

He certainly seems to be the one who dictates where, when and if CSNY
tours are going to happen, yes. And also the one whose presence drives
the hype, the box-office draw and the ticket prices through the roof.
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #94 of 376: TheBuzzMan (thebuzzzz) Tue 18 Jun 02 07:32
    
There's a lot more than just Neil dictating prices.. It's a giant
production. I think there were 8 buses and 12 tractor trailer combos on
this last tour... there were relief drivers and something like 80 in
the road crew, including personal assistents, lighting, sound,
production, catering and the like... then you talk about promotion
costs and stuff like that, it drives the price way up in a hurry....
granted Neil's presence makes a difference but the "hype meter" seems
to go up several extra notches when the four are together. Funny that
there was a lot of complaining before seeing the show but most felt, in
my opinion, that they got their money's worth once they saw the
show....
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #95 of 376: Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Tue 18 Jun 02 07:38
    
Good morning ... first about Laura Allan ... I too had a bit of a
crush on her ... in 1973. At that time she was in a Marin County-based
group called The Fairfax Street Choir, which also featured a great
singer named Bill Bramlett (who looked a bit like Bob "Bear" Hite of
Canned Heat) and guitarist David Carlson (who later played in a
short-lived Bay Area reggae-rock band called the Tazmanian Devils). The
Fairfax folks performed outdoors in "the quad" at the UC Davis "Whole
Earth Festival" that spring. A long, free-flowing set featured a solo
spot by Laura, seated centerstage with a dulcimer on her lap. I still
remember how her blonde hair glistened in the late afternoon sun as she
sang these wonderful ballads about love and loss. I spoke with Laura
after the band's set and even took her picture in front of a large oak
tree. I still have that photo -- her presence glowing -- in a book of
pics from my Davis days. It was later that summer, when I was back in
Palo Alto, that I noticed that Laura was in photo album in the gatefold
of Crosby's "If I Could Only Remember My Name." "Traction In the Rain"
... hmmmmm.

Here's my take on the current discussion is progress ...

Dan Marsh wrote:
>i feel the disagreemnts between csn & y are rather glossed over.

You think so? There may not be as much CSN vs. Y trash talk in my book
as is presented in Shakey. But I chronicle all of the aborted
projects, separations and reunions. I think Nash summed up one
perspective well:

"Neil utilized CSN as a springboard for his own career. It was very
deliberate and it was well done. As soon as CSN didn't suit him, he
sloughed us off like an old snakeskin. That's part of my relationship
with Neil that's a little tender. Because it was so blatant. He would
always find excuses to disappear ... But I love Neil dearly, and I'm
sure there were points when our scene was driving him nuts."

>Marsh further comments: it was readily apparent to me, that this
year's csny tour was run by neil and the song choices were done by neil
and the set list order was done by neil. so my take is csny does not
exist unless y gets his way.

I don't know if this is completely true. It's not like the guys in CSN
don't have pretty strong personalities and are not able to express
their opinions. 

Whether or not a CSNY project happens is obviously dependent on Neil
being involved. And Neil currently has, by far, the highest commercial
standing and the biggest bargaining chip of the four. If he says, "Hey
guys, I don't want to do that ... I want to do *this*," his opinion no
doubt weighs heavily.

With regard to Neil calling all of the shots and needing to *get his
way* on the CSNY2K2 tour ... my take is that he controlled parts of
tour, but not *all* of it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the
CSNY2K2 rhythm section is essentially the same one that is backing up
Neil on his solo tour. 
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #96 of 376: Steve Silberman (digaman) Tue 18 Jun 02 08:09
    
Especially not a coincidence since I hear that Neil basically fired the 
typical CSN rhythm section, Finnegan and Vitale.  (This I heard not from 
<croz>, but an old friend of Finnegan's.)  All the better for the tour, in 
my opinion;  but the funny little secret, to those who really care about 
<croz's> music, is that CPR is a much much better live experience these 
days than CSNY, and costs, I dunno, 80 percent less to see.
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #97 of 376: Gary Lambert (almanac) Tue 18 Jun 02 08:27
    

Yep, that's one of the great ironies for me about all this "supergroup"
hype surrounding CSNY -- I have always felt like this is a classic case
of the whole being *much* less than the sum of the parts. I've always
greatly preferred Neil solo, Croz solo, Croz and Nash as duo, etc, to
CSNY.
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #98 of 376: Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Tue 18 Jun 02 08:28
    
>CPR is a much much better live experience these days than CSNY.

Right you are, digaman. My brother-in-law saw both for the first time
and couldn't stop gushing about how great CPR was. He enjoyed CSNY live
(as did I) ... but he thought CSNY sounded "too big" sometimes.
Interestingly, Croz once described CSNY as "seven pounds of stuff in a
three pound bag." ... CPR is lean, all emotion, right in front of you.
I want more!
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #99 of 376: Mary Eisenhart (marye) Tue 18 Jun 02 08:39
    
Dave, while this discussion seems to have a lot of very knowledgeable
folks in it, there might be some people reading this in the great world
who are going "CPR"? So for those who might not have read the book
yet or have otherwise missed out, what's CPR?
  
inkwell.vue.152 : Dave Zimmer - Crosby, Stills & Nash: The Biography
permalink #100 of 376: look, it's all right there in front of you... (cmf) Tue 18 Jun 02 09:05
    
Dave,

Two questions.

First you've talked a little about being friends with CSN. I was
wondering, during the process did you ever feel like you naturally
gravitated toward one band member more than the others? And if so, why?

Second in #95 you talk a little about how your book covered some of
the inner turmoil within the group. Without knowing the history
personally, it always felt like you did a very even handed job of
representing all sides of a story. In other words, you seemed to give
equal voice to all three band members.

This had to have been a fine line to walk and I'm wondering if you
could talk a little about the process and how you handled it?
  

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