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permalink #176 of 280: Scott Underwood (esau) Tue 17 Dec 02 08:09
permalink #176 of 280: Scott Underwood (esau) Tue 17 Dec 02 08:09
> Mob theory > probably got its start with French sociologist's Gustav Le Bon's book, > The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind (1885). Charles MacKay's "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" was written in 1841. Presumably, he based at least some of his writing on works dating from before that. Tulipomania dates from the 1600s, for instance.
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permalink #177 of 280: Willard Uncapher (willard) Tue 17 Dec 02 15:34
permalink #177 of 280: Willard Uncapher (willard) Tue 17 Dec 02 15:34
Could National Security Closet Consumer WiFi Clothing? An interesting article on the top cover of the business section in the New York Times today, entitled "Limits Sought on Net Access Without Wire: Military and Industry Face Off on Frequencies" suggests that 'wireless internet access' might conflict and interfere with various military devices, particularly radar. "The military officials say the technical restrictions they are seeking are necessary for national security." One could read such demand for such restrictions a number of ways, depending on one's view on different branches of the government. <http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/17/technology/17WIRE.html> Popular Madness and Crowd Control Charles MacKay's "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" is a fun read, and has perhaps been reprinted more than just about any other non-fiction book. Its where I began a lot of my own appreciation of mass delusion. The book proposes and provides details for all sorts of 'mass hysteria' - MacKay includes the Crusades, alchemy, witch hysteria's, etc. And tulipomania. Since the fear/contempt of 'crowds' is pretty ancient, one can in fact look to a number of social 'theorists' and moralists in many cultures and time periods, particularly by government servants, well before even MacKay. People look to LeBon as an important mob theorist muscling in on the theory turf by having analytically laid out an original framework that argues: human behavior in crowds is different from their behavior as individuals. Social reactionaries like Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821) thought crowds to be irrational, needing the guidance of smart and noble people like ourselves. LeBon, Durkheim, etc., in contrast propose to examine the tensions involved in emergent, coherent (group/social) behavior unpredicted by its parts (individuals). All that talk about evolution, that guiding social metaphor in the late 19th century (and in late 20th century complexity theory) did have people rethinking issues of emergence. So, do clothes make the mob, or does the mob make the clothes?
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permalink #178 of 280: Dave Hughes (dave) Tue 17 Dec 02 21:25
permalink #178 of 280: Dave Hughes (dave) Tue 17 Dec 02 21:25
That John Markoff of the NYT (I have known him since he was a cub reporter covering the 1st Hackers conference in about 1982) got it wrong when he said in todays article that DOD is fighting 'Wi-Fi' Very technically specifically, 'Wi-Fi' has meant the unlicensed radios and spectrum at 2.4 to 2.483mhz - the 802.11b standard. And NOT all unlicensed spread spectrum or UNII. What DOD is arguing over is the UNII bands at 5.2 to 5.8ghz. They have NO demands on 802.11b areas. Sloppy reporting.
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permalink #179 of 280: Dave Hughes (dave) Tue 17 Dec 02 21:49
permalink #179 of 280: Dave Hughes (dave) Tue 17 Dec 02 21:49
John Ross has a good point in the idea that 'local culture' exported by the net may awaken interest in that 'old' culture in those distant from it who came out of it. Quite possibly. I suppose I am an example. Although I am 4th Generation American from Welsh heritage, with only a few stories and a 100 year old family book to link me to where my ancestors stemmed, when I thought it time to pass onto my children and grandchilden their Welsh heritage, it wasover 2 years dialogue over the soc.culture.wales newgroup in 97-99 with mainly those who live there, I learned much, was able to put the trials and tribulations of the 11 generations of Calvinist Methodist Welsh ministers of our line through the religous wars between 1500 and 1870. Where my linguistic abilities came from. And down my grandmothers line back to the Welsh kings, where my warrior tendencies come from. Discovering via the 4 trips I have taken there, why I 'relate' to the English-oppressed Welsh, and have been motivated to help them via technology to become even more independent - partly by exporting their 'culture' via the net. And partly through vigerous speaking (15 times before hundreds from Ministers of Government to Geeks) and demonstrating to them that 'they' can do it themselves. A kind of recurisive loop of culture, part of which travels over distant nets.
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permalink #180 of 280: Jeff the Ham man (jefdeham) Fri 27 Dec 02 15:09
permalink #180 of 280: Jeff the Ham man (jefdeham) Fri 27 Dec 02 15:09
Hi Howard. Enjoyed your books the Virtual Community and Smart Mobs. Couldn't put Smart Mobs down and read it every chance I got. Really made me think. It was really interesting how young people in other countries have taken to text messaging. But what got me to really wondering is how come young people here in the USA haven't taken to it at all? I asked my 15 year old daughter if her friends have cell phones and she said most of them do. I then asked her if they text message each other. She said no. I asked why? She said she just never thinks about it. I asked her if you need to tell them something you just call them right? She said yes. I think that is the crux of it. Why message when you can just ring them up? She then told me she used instant messenger and AOL messenger all the time to chat with her friends. I think that maybe that is the one of the answers to why kids here in the US don't text message via cell phones. Text messaging isn't like IMing nor is it as easy to do. They probably would text message if the experience was more like using Instant Messager. Maybe the key is real time messaging? Maybe the two keys here are the fact that cost isn't really a factor using voice and kids want it to be like instant messenger. Just my two bits worth... Jeff
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permalink #181 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Fri 27 Dec 02 22:37
permalink #181 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Fri 27 Dec 02 22:37
Good thinking, Jeff. My daughter (18) has had the same experience -- she uses IM a lot, and texting very little. I probably send this before in this topic, but there's no need to look for cultural reasons when the operators did such a good job of mismarketing texting. First obstacle: lack of interoperability (in Europe, the GSM standard and other agreements meant you could send sms messages to friends who used different carriers, but not, until recently, could you do that in the US). Second obstacle: texting wasn't cheaper than short phone calls (we have pretty inexpensive phone calls in the US, but sms could have been made less expensive). Third obstacle: the carriers tried to market to 25-35 year old businessmen instead of 15-25 year olds. However, this study says that is changing: <http://www.smartmobs.com/archives/000466.html> Partial quote: The thumb-typing trend, Telephia says, is especially strong among American wireless subscribers between the ages of 18 to 24 â 45 percent of whom used text messaging this year, compared with 22 percent last year. Much of the growth is a result of technical improvements that have enabled customers of different carriers to send messages to each other...
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permalink #182 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Sat 28 Dec 02 08:37
permalink #182 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Sat 28 Dec 02 08:37
>The thumb-typing trend, Telephia says, is especially strong among > wireless subscribers between the ages of 18 to 24 â 45 percent > whom used text messaging this year, compared with 22 percent last > year. That is an interesting trend Howard. I went to the SmartMob site and saw the graphs. It got me wondering with virtually no marketing of text messaging what got that trend started? It dawned on me that perhaps the Blackberry and all it's hype got the younger set thinking about cool it was. As their budgets wouldn't allow for the cost of a Blackberry and it's services they probably started thinking how they could do the same thing on the cheap. It probably dawned on them that the cell phones would let them do text messaging and they could message their friends sorta like a Blackberry. Though the Blackberrys are email oriented a short email is like a message. Hence it's not to much of a stretch to see the connection between the Blackberry (and it's ilk) and text messaging. I know at that age (like in Smart Mobs) I really wanted to stay in touch with friends and would have really wanted a Blackberry. Heck I still do! 8-) Jeff
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permalink #183 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 28 Dec 02 09:51
permalink #183 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 28 Dec 02 09:51
The early adopters of texting in the US were the upscale business geeks (Blackberry) and hiphop culturati (Motorola Two-Way Pager). There actually has been a quite active marketing effort in recent months (you mean you haven't had your Catherine Zeta-Jones overdose yet?) Clearly, there's a fax effect/tipping point effect involved -- when a sufficient number of teenagers start texting, then they all start texting.
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permalink #184 of 280: Berliner (captward) Sat 28 Dec 02 10:56
permalink #184 of 280: Berliner (captward) Sat 28 Dec 02 10:56
One thing that seems to have made texting popular in Europe is the development of a code, whereby words are reduced to three or four letters, mixing the local language with English into a mess no adult could possibly understand. Anything (rock and roll in the mid-'50s being another good example) that gives teenagers their own secret language is going to take off. (And this is why I keep telling people that the next rock and roll might not involve music, but that's off-topic).
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permalink #185 of 280: the invetned stiff is dumb (bbraasch) Sat 28 Dec 02 12:57
permalink #185 of 280: the invetned stiff is dumb (bbraasch) Sat 28 Dec 02 12:57
We just swapped our cellphones for new ones that have text messaging. My son uses it, so we paid $3/month extra for 100 messages a month. I asked him how he uses it. He says the kids at school use it to 'tell each other what will be happening in the near future'. For example, the essay question on a test they'd be taking next period. Time for the teachers to start changing those essay questions each period.
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permalink #186 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Sat 28 Dec 02 23:39
permalink #186 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Sat 28 Dec 02 23:39
A Catherine Zeta-Jones overdose is that possible? 8-) I saw her commercials but for some reason I just don't remember her pushing text messaging. Maybe I was looking to much at her. ;-) Looks like there evidently was a critical mass that was reached and now it is going to really take off. Like Berliner said they will be using shortened coded text messages that will be greek to us. Kids learn and adapt so fast so I am sure they already are doing that. > We just swapped our cellphones for new ones that have text messaging Could you tell us what brand they were? I can text message with my Nokia. When I first got it I sent email from it to my sister in Seattle. She thought that was kinda neat. I receive Oakland A's sports info on it all the time. In fact I wonder how many people receive information like stocks,sports, weather on theirs? Oh by the way I just setup wireless networking about 10 minutes ago and am now typing this in the comfort of my easy chair. No more fighting the kids for the computer! 8-) I love it! Jeff
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permalink #187 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sun 29 Dec 02 11:17
permalink #187 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sun 29 Dec 02 11:17
I wonder whether AOL on phones and PDAs might be more popular with many Americans. Two things that AIM has that texting doesn't have: buddy lists and presence detection (knowing when your buddies are online). A couple of years ago, Scandinavians told me (often) that "in the US you use metal detectors to keep guns out of schools, but here we need them to keep telephones out of schools" (because of the cheating mentioned above). Poking around on a reputation research site, I recently discovered that the value of an eBay reputation is approximately 7.6% of the selling price. <http://www.smartmobs.com/archives/000479.html> I will be gone for a few days. Will check in here again early in 2003. Carry on, by all means.
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permalink #188 of 280: the invetned stiff is dumb (bbraasch) Sun 29 Dec 02 11:20
permalink #188 of 280: the invetned stiff is dumb (bbraasch) Sun 29 Dec 02 11:20
we got the motorola T720 from verizon. color screens, downloadable games, web browser, mp3 player, pim, text messaging and oh, a phone. they have an upgrade deal for $79/phone with a $100 rebate coupon if you renew your contract for another 2 years.
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permalink #189 of 280: Jack King (gjk) Sun 29 Dec 02 14:24
permalink #189 of 280: Jack King (gjk) Sun 29 Dec 02 14:24
What I hate about wireless phone text-messaging is the tedium and the short messages. What I like is the total anonymity of a pre-paid wireless phone purchase, where you just make up a name, an address, and a landline. That was what got my 24-year-old son into it -- the anonymity of it all!
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permalink #190 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Wed 1 Jan 03 23:16
permalink #190 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Wed 1 Jan 03 23:16
I just read a review of the Motorola T720 and it looks like a winner. Nice phone to say the least. The problem still is with those phones is the lack of a thumbable keyboard and instant messaging similar to a Instant Messager. OK I guess there is general agreement that text messaging is for the young and they are using it quite a bit in some parts of the world. What is the next generation of text messaging going to look like or rather what will it take to take off for the masses in it's next incarnation? Current LCDs will be replaced by organic LCDs which are much lighter, brighter and most of all thinner. Also I believe are able to be molded somewhat. This will allow phones to be thinner with bigger screens though limited by ergonomics. Keyboards will fold down and allow one to thumb type. 3G networks will be rolled out by the cellular networks allowing high speed internet access. Web browsing wil be like using a PC at home. Instant messaging will take off among young and old as Instant Messenger and AOL Messenger are ported over. Web browsing and messaging on cell phones will become what people experience at home. Something they have become comfortable with. I can't wait for that to happen! I just hooked up wireless networking in the house. There are two laptops with 802.11b cards hooked up right now with one playing music and me typing this. The idea of having a phone with this kinda of access has me drooling at the idea. Jeff
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permalink #191 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 4 Jan 03 09:27
permalink #191 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 4 Jan 03 09:27
Texting and US elections: <http://www.smartmobs.com/archives/000497.html> Mobile telephones and Kenya elections: <http://www.smartmobs.com/archives/000490.html> Texting and Internet in Korean elections: <http://www.smartmobs.com/archives/000494.html> There is an upside and a downside to this. The upside is better get-out-the-vote organizing at the grassroots: power to the people. The downside is the possible shortcircuiting of deliberation in the democratic governance process: power to the mob.
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permalink #192 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Sat 4 Jan 03 17:27
permalink #192 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Sat 4 Jan 03 17:27
> downside is the possible shortcircuiting of deliberation in the > democratic process. When I read this I thought of the Nigerian riots. Rumors or deliberate misinformation could easily trigger those kind of respones by "smart mobs". On the other hand there have been cases through out history where a rapid response by large groups have stopped various plots, bad bills, goverment misbehavior and what not dead in it's tracks. Thomas Jefferson would have liked this kind of informational power in the people's hands. It's the old yin and yang, good/bad, upside/downside to technology's uses. Be real interesting to see what it all results in the future. Jeff
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permalink #193 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sun 5 Jan 03 11:27
permalink #193 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sun 5 Jan 03 11:27
No powerful communication technology is an unmixed blessing. When you amplify human power, you amplify something that has proven itself to be capable of angelic and demonic behavior. The question is whether foreknowledge of the downside of a technology can ameliorate destructive impacts in any way.
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permalink #194 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Tue 7 Jan 03 12:03
permalink #194 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Tue 7 Jan 03 12:03
>downside of a technology can ameliorate destructive >impacts in any way. There is quite literally no way to put brakes on it. The very nature of the fast information makes for fast responses right or wrong. Hopefully the vast majority of responses and reactions will be for the common good and not vice versa. I am a communicatons technician and I was talking to a friend of mine who is a RF tech for Cellular company. Right now his company is getting ready to roll out a 2mb connection for their cell phones. We were chatting about that I said that instead of doing it that they should just put antennas up on the cell sites and do 802.11a data. They would get a LOT of customers at 54megs! He said that better yet they should do that and transmit digital television. I'm not sure what the bandwidth of digital tv is but sure is a thought! I said that I can't help thinking that the flavors of 802.11(x) will kick the supports out from under data equipped cell phones. Hmmm should I go with 54meg or 2 meg? I can guess what most will go with. 8-) It's not pie in the sky stuff but real technology available now! Let's get that digital cloud going!!!!! Jeff
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permalink #195 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Tue 7 Jan 03 14:22
permalink #195 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Tue 7 Jan 03 14:22
>downside of a technology can ameliorate destructive >impacts in any way. There is quite literally no way to put brakes on it. The very nature of the fast information makes for fast responses right or wrong. Hopefully the vast majority of responses and reactions will be for the common good and not vice versa. I am a communicatons technician and I was talking to a friend of mine who is a RF tech for Cellular company. Right now his company is getting ready to roll out a 2mb connection for their cell phones. We were chatting about that I said that instead of doing it that they should just put antennas up on the cell sites and do 802.11a data. They would get a LOT of customers at 54megs! He said that better yet they should do that and transmit digital television. I'm not sure what the bandwidth of digital tv is but sure is a thought! I said that I can't help thinking that the flavors of 802.11(x) will kick the supports out from under data equipped cell phones. Hmmm should I go with 54meg or 2 meg? I can guess what most will go with. 8-) It's not pie in the sky stuff but real technology available now! Let's get that digital cloud going!!!!! Jeff
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permalink #196 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Wed 8 Jan 03 12:07
permalink #196 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Wed 8 Jan 03 12:07
I don't know about putting brakes on, but informed design and regulation CAN work well -- see the early days of the Internet. The end-to-end design of the Internet protocols wasn't accidental. A different design could have centralized innovation, we wouldn't have the Web and lots of other innovations that came from the edges of the network. In regard to regulation and deregulation, we wouldn't have had the Net as we know it if the US had not rescinded ATT's prohibition against attaching foreign equipment (such as modems) to their telephones. So I see design and regulation as two possible places where knowledgeable intervention can affect the future course of social consequences of technological innovation. This is not to argue that all design or all regulation has had net positive effects.
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permalink #197 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Thu 9 Jan 03 11:39
permalink #197 of 280: Jeff Jones (jefdeham) Thu 9 Jan 03 11:39
Howard, could you give me some examples of how design and regulation will affect the consequences? Just plain drawing a blank . Jeff
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permalink #198 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Fri 10 Jan 03 13:30
permalink #198 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Fri 10 Jan 03 13:30
If the cablecos and telcos get their way, then new regulatory regimes will allow them to discriminate at the router level -- content bits owned by competitors won't travel on their parts of the network. This will compromise the end-to-end architecture of the Net. If the Hollings Bill and the Broadcast Flag proposal end up legally mandating a form of DRM that would include a chip inside computers that would shut down the device if non-authorized content is run, then say good-bye to innovation in PCs. If the current regulation of spectrum were changed to allow more of the spectrum to be used as a commons by cognitive radio and other new wireless technologies, we'll see a very different future for mobile communications than we will if the present vested interests maintain the present system. If the Berman bill and other attacks on p2p cripple the ability for groups of individuals to share cpu, disk, and bandwidth, then we'll never know what might be done with billions of connected smart devices. Those are just a few glaring examples of how the wrong kind of regulation could -- and probably will -- fuck things up. To say nothing of "trusted computing." In regard to design, a very simple question: Is there a privacy switch on wearable/mobile devices that broadcast all kinds of information about who the user is, where the user is, what the user is doing? And if so, is the default "on" or "off?"
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permalink #199 of 280: who? me? (stet) Fri 10 Jan 03 16:24
permalink #199 of 280: who? me? (stet) Fri 10 Jan 03 16:24
Talk radio audience: smart mob, dumb technology?
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permalink #200 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 11 Jan 03 09:39
permalink #200 of 280: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 11 Jan 03 09:39
They aren't using mobile communications to organize collective action, so I'd say that it would be stretching the term too far.
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