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permalink #76 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Mon 9 Jun 03 16:17
permalink #76 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Mon 9 Jun 03 16:17
Jeez, Cynthia, you never give up! Okay, okay. In 1981-86 I was senior media officer for the National Research Council of Canada. At the start of my tenure Canada had just donated the SRMS, or Shuttle Remote Manipulator System, to NASA. North of the border, the space arm is nicknamed the Canadarm. It's a fabulous piece of robotics, but unlike many such systems it's so simple to use that your average Colt-toting, gum-chewing atronaut can figure it out in thirty seconds. The arm's first flight was STS-2, the second flight of the Shuttle: crew, Commanders Truly & Engle. And the robot arm worked flawlessly. So with the thing deployed and the astronauts gibbering with joy over the system, my boss and I decided to break from our arduous schedule and attend the official Canada-US government party to celebrate. Only there was no party. Somehow External Affairs (CDN) and State (USA) had, uhhhhhhh, somehow neglected to consider what might happen if the f_____g thing went off without a hitch first go. Dismayed this not our valiant lieutenants, Atkinson and Cherwinsky? Ay: As sparrows eagles, or the hare the lion. We had, um, picked up, sort of, from colleagues in the US Astronaut Corps, the datum that Moosehead was their favorite brew. So we got on the phone, called the Moosehead Brewery up in Atlantic Canada, explained the situation, and had 'em expedite 66 cases of The Moose to our favorite oyster bar in Port Canaveral. This place - dammit, the name escapes me; probably because I left too much of my prefrontal cortex there over the years - has a zinc-topped oyster bar, a hollow X whose total circumference is something like 120 yards. So it was there we had The Moose sent, and there the (earthbound) astronauts and we convened an ad-hoc party, and there...Well. I do remember a high-speed 3 AM ride in a very, very fast speedboat docked in Port Canaveral. What a blast. State and External should have hired me on the spot to smooth over their little diplomatic tiffs.
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permalink #77 of 133: Teleologically dyslexic (ceder) Tue 10 Jun 03 10:14
permalink #77 of 133: Teleologically dyslexic (ceder) Tue 10 Jun 03 10:14
Thanks for the oyster/beer story. It has comforted me from the dispair the impending emerging techno-replacements fears that inundate me. How would one self-educate in these new technologies?
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permalink #78 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Tue 10 Jun 03 13:29
permalink #78 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Tue 10 Jun 03 13:29
Teleologically dyslexic: Love your nickname! I've stopped using "telos" as a noun since our local phone company changed its name to Telus. All I do is create confusion. But what a needless loss of a perfectly good word! All those synthetic firm names really gum up the language, don't they? At least I had the grace to raid another language for my own. The good news is that I do indeed have a sure-fire way to avoid being put to pasture by uppity machines. I write about machines! And systems, and medicine, and every technology. As many tigers as appear, then, I prosper by leaping on their backs and riding 'em. At least I have to date: somewhere out there (no doubt) is an AI system that has a science writer's name on it. Input a topic line and three key URLs, and six femtoseconds later there's 1500 words in flawless English. I am not holding my breath for this to occur, however. Such an AI system would have to be written by techies whose grasp of English is significantly less than their grasp of calculus. Like, uh, LOL. If you want a technical education that's obsolescence-resistant, forget it. Ideally, modern education would teach you how to learn, so that however much things changed you could adapt. Bob Heinlein pointed this out in (I think) 1939 in his novel "Beyond This Horizon." But modern education doesn't do this, though it says it does. Its telos (hah!) is to bombard you with a welter of facts, mixed inextricably in with a welter of oddball theories presented as facts. This forces you to be a data-processing machine. Add to this the removal of cloud-watching time in today's society, and you see that even when new ideas come knocking, there's seldom anyone there to answer the door. So what to do? Read poetry and novels, mostly old. Learn enough math and science to read a journal paper and ask: Okay, but what have they left out? Read 19th- and 20th-century polymaths such as Darwin, Lyell and Eiseley who have the brains and glands to discuss not only the how, but also the why. Then define your own profession. Good luck.
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permalink #79 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Tue 10 Jun 03 16:45
permalink #79 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Tue 10 Jun 03 16:45
So, 66 cases of Moosehead and a bunch of hard-drinkin' flyboys-turned- astronauts. Sounds like quite an experience, Bill. How long were you down in Florida, hanging out with the Space Program people?
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permalink #80 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Tue 10 Jun 03 22:04
permalink #80 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Tue 10 Jun 03 22:04
On and off from 1980-86. Fascinating people. The female astronauts were great dancers. The males were amazing drinkers. Industrial- strength livers. It takes a lot to awe me, but they did. And after the parties, they could get up at 4 AM fresh as a daisy. Amazing.
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permalink #81 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Wed 11 Jun 03 09:10
permalink #81 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Wed 11 Jun 03 09:10
To readers: Nanocosm was deliberately written to be controversial, with strong opinions strongly stated (and backed up by strong factual evidence). I'm not shy, and I'm willing to be convinced I'm wrong as well as to be seconded in whatever I've said. So if you're a strong supporter of, say, the molecular-assembler concept, don't hesitate to write in. Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis: we'll both learn something! And we can show the world how to conduct civilized debate. - Bill
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permalink #82 of 133: Where's the Flying Car (airman) Wed 11 Jun 03 09:39
permalink #82 of 133: Where's the Flying Car (airman) Wed 11 Jun 03 09:39
Bill, The opinions were fine and refreshing in many ways. But I have to disagree with the strong factual evidence. I'm not disputing the facts presented; just that in a couple of ways you didn't go far enough. A bibliography of references would have been nice. The inline style you use barely provides enough information for further research. It would have been nice to see the papers and books people have written. Usually a manager will have his technical people assess a concept, idea, or project that is cited. Quite often, this involves research. it's helpful to know what is published and what is personal communications. Even Scientific American has "Further Readings". Dave
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permalink #83 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Wed 11 Jun 03 11:42
permalink #83 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Wed 11 Jun 03 11:42
(NOTE: Folks who are reading this but don't have WELL accounts can join the conversation by sending their comments or questions to inkwell-hosts@well.com)
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permalink #84 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Wed 11 Jun 03 19:07
permalink #84 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Wed 11 Jun 03 19:07
Welcome back Airman! I like your suggestions, and I'm going to take them into account when Nanocosm goes into a second edition. In fact so much of the book was based on original interviews an dnew ideas that I could have put ten footnotes and cross-references on every page. I finally elected to do all or nothing, and chose nothing - feeling that a forest of footnotes would bog down the flow. But now, a separate set of notes in a separte Appendix seems a good idea. Of course I'd have to indicate where my phraseology was taken from earlier writers: e.g. "fine ratiocinative meditativeness" was Sam Johnson's assessment of Hamlet.
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permalink #85 of 133: Where's the Flying Car (airman) Wed 11 Jun 03 23:38
permalink #85 of 133: Where's the Flying Car (airman) Wed 11 Jun 03 23:38
Thanks
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permalink #86 of 133: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Thu 12 Jun 03 07:32
permalink #86 of 133: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Thu 12 Jun 03 07:32
We could put up a small list here, too. Feynman's "room at the bottom" lecture is online at http://www.zyvex.com/nanotech/feynmanWeb.html Zyvex also has a good place to start for web resources in general: http://www.zyvex.com/nano/ This page has a good short explanation of nanotechnology, too. (these are Ralph C Merkle's pages; not sure how he relates to Zyvex) The entire text of Engines of Creation by K. Eric Drexler is online at http://www.foresight.org/EOC/ This is I think the book that most of us read first.
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permalink #87 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Thu 12 Jun 03 08:12
permalink #87 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Thu 12 Jun 03 08:12
> when Nanocosm goes into a second edition ... Does that mean you're looking at a second printing, Bill? Or a revised "second edition" at some point in the future? And what are your plans as far as your next writing project? What have you got up your sleeve?
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permalink #88 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Thu 12 Jun 03 09:58
permalink #88 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Thu 12 Jun 03 09:58
Cynthia: A revised second edition may be possible: we'll see. Sales seem ramping up (latest data, current to New York June 11). Normally when I write a book I'm done with it, like a cat with grown kittens. But so much is happening so fast that I wouldn't mind revisiting nanotech, always providing that my publisher concurs. That being said, I do have an idea for my next book. It was suggested to me by my 8-year-old wunderkind, wee Stuart.
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permalink #89 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Thu 12 Jun 03 10:00
permalink #89 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Thu 12 Jun 03 10:00
Becky: Good idea to put in references in any 2nd edition. (Revised! Enlarged! Slightly Less Combative!) I believe Dr Merkle is one of the Directors of Zyvex; he is certainly involved with IMM (The Institute for Molecular Manufacturing) and the Foresight Institute (whose chair is Mr Drexler).
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permalink #90 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Thu 12 Jun 03 15:14
permalink #90 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Thu 12 Jun 03 15:14
> I do have an idea for my next book. It was suggested > to me by my 8-year-old wunderkind, wee Stuart. care to elaborate?
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permalink #91 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Thu 12 Jun 03 22:02
permalink #91 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Thu 12 Jun 03 22:02
Nahhh. Want to run it by my agents first. Sorry to be coy. But I don't want somebody sharp (e.g. someone who taps into The Well) to come across it and say, Hey! I can do that!
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permalink #92 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Fri 13 Jun 03 08:41
permalink #92 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Fri 13 Jun 03 08:41
Ah, well then, I guess I'll just have to think of my OWN idea for a book to write. (lumbering off, mumbling and grumbling...)
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permalink #93 of 133: Gail Williams (gail) Fri 13 Jun 03 11:01
permalink #93 of 133: Gail Williams (gail) Fri 13 Jun 03 11:01
heh!
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permalink #94 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Fri 13 Jun 03 11:34
permalink #94 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Fri 13 Jun 03 11:34
So, Bill, if there was one problem you'd like to see nanotechnology solving -- any problem, no matter how pie-in-the-sky -- what would it be?
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permalink #95 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Fri 13 Jun 03 12:59
permalink #95 of 133: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Fri 13 Jun 03 12:59
Also, I wanted to mention that even though we've moved the virtual spotlight to a new Inkwell guest, we'd love to have you stay on with us as long as you like, Bill. We thank you for joining us, and hope you'll stick around. Also, thanks to you, Betsy, for leading this discussion. It's been great!
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permalink #96 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Fri 13 Jun 03 14:16
permalink #96 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Fri 13 Jun 03 14:16
Cynthia: Thanks! More controversy to come; e.g. check out this URL. They love me or hate me, nothing in between: that's for sure. http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0583.html Betsy:I'd see the extrapolation of Neil Branda's work in molecular catalysis as the Next Big Thing in Nanotech. If he can pull this off, he's going to (1) Revolutionize chemistry; (2) Pull the focus of NNI, DARPA, and NIH away from physics and place it where it belongs, on chemistry and materials science; (3) Get himself a Nobel Prize or two. He's also the most amazing chef.
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permalink #97 of 133: Where's the Flying Car (airman) Fri 13 Jun 03 23:58
permalink #97 of 133: Where's the Flying Car (airman) Fri 13 Jun 03 23:58
>They love me or hate me, nothing in between: that's for sure. Sounds like Drexler...jest kidding!!!
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permalink #98 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Sat 14 Jun 03 09:43
permalink #98 of 133: William Illsey (Bill) Atkinson (wiatkinson) Sat 14 Jun 03 09:43
Ah, Airman, you touch a nerve. We're always more like our opponents than we care to admit, aren't we? The bitterest enemies on the sport field still use the same equipment. And lawyers or academics at daggers drawn work with the same data; they simply put different spins on it.
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permalink #99 of 133: Where's the Flying Car (airman) Sat 14 Jun 03 10:08
permalink #99 of 133: Where's the Flying Car (airman) Sat 14 Jun 03 10:08
ANd yet, every revolution shoots both the lawyers, who are first, and then the intellectuals.
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permalink #100 of 133: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Sun 15 Jun 03 06:55
permalink #100 of 133: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Sun 15 Jun 03 06:55
Well, as I understand the criticism of the book, there are two threads. One is the reaction to the criticism of Drexler. The other is the charge that you got some of the technology wrong. You're certainly not alone in criticizing Drexler. I did find the breeziness of your dismissal irritating sometimes - but I don't think you're wrong about the way the science is going. The Kurzweil article in <#96.> sort of misses the point - were you making fun of Nnaosystems for being too *technical*, or for working out details in a way that can't exist at that scale? The other criticism I find more disturbing. Are the scientists picking at nits that don't detract from the basic goal of helping the business person understand the technology, or are there really major errors? If the goal is to help the business person speak enough of the science to understand the headlines and communicate with the scientists in the business, I suspect your book is a better bet than "nanosystems". (going to www.bn.com, I see there are some other recent business books on nanotechnology...) I just have my suspicion - that you're right -that we won't build little bionanomachines that act like teeny mechanical gears and binary computers - that before this technology can work we'll have to "crack" the biological "code" and build things that work like tiny neurons or tiny bacteria and tiny white blood cells. **smart** cells. Why does that sound more frightening than a smart teeny robot?
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