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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #76 of 131: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sat 10 Jan 04 09:44
permalink #76 of 131: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sat 10 Jan 04 09:44
Vincent Omniaveritas once wrote: "As American SF lies in a reptilian torpor, its small, squishy cousin, Fantasy, creeps gecko-like across the bookstands. Dreaming of dragon-hood, Fantasy has puffed itself up with air like a Mojave chuckwalla. SF's collapse had formed a vacuum that forces Fantasy into a painful and explosive bloat." What's the state of hard science fiction today? *Well, "hard science fiction" was traditionally the preserve of physics majors. Those guys have been awfully down in the mouth ever since the collapse of the Superconducting Super Collider. If there was a moment when the cultural prestige of the Atomic Age died on the floor of Congress, that was it. *The only rival for prestige that physics had was "computer science," but that lacks the rigor and sublimity of physics because it's basically a melange of ideas and techniques that are clustered around a lame commercial gadget. *So it's been very hard to whip up any rah-rah, crypto-religious enthusiasm for hard SF as a torchbearer of the intellectual avant-garde. Instead, we see fantasy reach its apotheosis with Aragorn and Arwen Tolkien Barbie-doll figures. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005BM41/downandoutint-20/002-0332863 -2057621 inkwell.vue 204: The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address #74 of 75: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Fri 09 Jan 2004 (08:32 AM) What's wrong with our Space Program? *It needs a coherent reason to exist. It's okay for Nazis and Communists to launch giant rockets as a kind of public relations loss-leader, but a capitalist society has a hard time justifying an outlay that size that has no revenue stream. What's right? *Bin Laden can't do it. He is probably feeling kind of humiliated by machines crawling around on Mars. It's public proof that his theology is crap. Bin Laden likes smashing big shiny aircraft (because he can't build his own) but smashing big shiny spacecraft is harder. Plus, spacecraft can and do spy on him. Delta Force with satellite phones and GPS might show up at his cave-mouth some day if he gets careless. What would you do if you were head of NASA? *I'd throttle it way back with the cornball sense-of-wonder Buck Rogers rhetoric, (for it's nice but it never lasts). I'd pull a Teddy Roosevelt on the aerospace trusts like LockheedGrummanMartinGeneralDynamics, outsource the launch biz to cheap and eager Indians and Chinese, and then fill the sky around the earth with sophisticated monitors. *There would be no Space Station, no astronauts, no Shuttle. *Having then fired everyone with a Cold-War relic military-industrial sinecure and broken the iron rice-bowl, I would hire young NASA engineers without preconceptions, make them read the complete works of Freeman Dyson, and see if we couldn't get into making and launching something along the lines of his "space chickens." Something you can throw into space that is cheap, small, disposable and quasi-biological. http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Obits2/Dyson_NYTimes.html
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #77 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sat 10 Jan 04 10:02
permalink #77 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sat 10 Jan 04 10:02
You hit that softball out of the park, Bruce. Space chickens, that's it? So you want to send organisms around the galaxy and start a life building chain reaction? I can see that. It's fertile ground for sci fi books and short stories and maybe a subplot of the up and coming (maybe) Battlestar Galactica. If you were to write a tv miniseries, what would it be about? Why don't you do this? You probably have something lying around on those huge wall to wall bookshelves or in one of those limitless piles in your library/office. If you were building your home again, what would you do different?
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #78 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sat 10 Jan 04 11:43
permalink #78 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sat 10 Jan 04 11:43
Was it the Cylons or the humans that messed up? What about doing a movie - sci fi - using homegrown videographers, writers and actors/actresses? You write the script and a team of volunteers make it? Local. Homegrown. Sci Fi. Done with networked webcam/cameras. What high tech sectors are going to grow in Austin? I'm guessing your going to say solar, biotech and gaming and less on semiconductors and software?
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #79 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sat 10 Jan 04 11:47
permalink #79 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sat 10 Jan 04 11:47
What's happening with the arts, poetry, music scene. Will it flourish or be squeezed? Richard Florida?
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #80 of 131: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 10 Jan 04 15:30
permalink #80 of 131: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 10 Jan 04 15:30
Wait a minute, terry... if I have anything to do with it, it's WIRELESS that'll put Austin on the map. Or maybe Austin will put wireless on the map. And Bruce will be leading the charge with a massive wifi radio mast planted firmly on the roof of the Viridian Vatican. Just in time to televise the revolution...
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #81 of 131: Ted (nukem777) Sat 10 Jan 04 16:48
permalink #81 of 131: Ted (nukem777) Sat 10 Jan 04 16:48
Austin is already on the map.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #82 of 131: Ted (nukem777) Sat 10 Jan 04 16:52
permalink #82 of 131: Ted (nukem777) Sat 10 Jan 04 16:52
Bruce, thinking of the 'electronic mob', how much political advantage do you give to the slick use of the Internet in this upcoming election? Do you think they can use it to skew things to their advantage during this technological lull, while the 'old school' catches up to its potential? I'm thinking in a couple of years it will all be so commonplace that people will ignore it like everything else, but right now it seems to have some potency.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #83 of 131: Dan Flanery (sunspot) Sat 10 Jan 04 18:52
permalink #83 of 131: Dan Flanery (sunspot) Sat 10 Jan 04 18:52
>I think Bush, whom I do not greatly admire, is a >better man than his admin and than we credit him >for. He responded to conservative pressure to >condemn Islam as a "failed religion" by attending >Friday services at a mosque and calling Islam a >"religion of peace". Yes, but did he do and say those things because he believes in them, or did he do and save those things because the Saudis could see to it our economy was wrecked and ruined just in time for his re-election campaign if they, say, started selling oil only in Euros? Remember, you're dealing with a man whose family has been making sometimes-shady business deals with Saudi Princes for decades and decades. They've got each other by the balls. My question for Bruce is, how long do you think we have before advanced weapons of mass destruction bio-engineered plagues, horrible new toxins, suitcase nukes or container ship nukes that can't be detected, or other stuff I haven't heard of yet become available to terror organizations like Osama's? Because as I see it right now, the threat from these nutjobs to the continental US is fairly low, apart from their potential to disrupt the oil supply should they spark a revolution somewhere like Saudi Arabia. There are only so many big high-rises they can smack planes into, and after a certain point it's just not worth the effort. But if they could float a nuke into San Francisco Bay, or whip up a bioengineered virus that only kills men with blonde hair, they could wreak serious havoc. If we can determine how long it is before such weapons might exist, we can develop a timeline for dealing with the situation we have this long to drain the swamp of Islamic political culture before what's breeding there bites and kills us. Because as I see it, we've wasted an enormous amount of time and money eliminating one of the most secular states in the Islamic world Iraq while doing jack to defuse the threat posed by radical fundamentalism in places like Pakistan or Egypt. If anything, our actions to date have only kindled the fires of fundamentalism as a political movement in the Islamic world.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #84 of 131: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sat 10 Jan 04 20:20
permalink #84 of 131: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sat 10 Jan 04 20:20
I'm interested in "smart mobs," and mobs have traditionally been pretty good at agitation and political pressure. I don't quite see how mobs are supposed to govern. They might get somebody elected, but when is somebody who has been elected going to convey some real power on mobs? Electronic democracy is a pretty old notion now, but so far, despite some clear advances in social software, I haven't seen so much as a small city council that's truly run electronically. I want to see this technique actually supplanting earlier power structures, instead of just hacking them, and adding an extra layer of spin. Then I'll account myself a believer. Just maybe, some day, when some bunch of elected officials faces some political challenge, instead of scaring up the usual cornball "blue-ribbon panel" of worthy graybeards (generally appointed to make sure that nothing actually happens for a while) -- they will instead declare: "You know what we need in a crisis like this? We need Move-On!" So, yeah. When we see these nascent institutions deployed by some accountable power structure to resolve real problems in the body politic, then we'll know it's past the hype-and-bubble stage and getting traction. I'm inclined to think that this is likeliest to happen in some place other than America, though. The World Social Forum, maybe. That is a hobbyist talking-shop that really looks painfully anxious to become some kind of newfangled governmental body. And after such a revolution, things would be different. Not better, mind you -- just different.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #85 of 131: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sat 10 Jan 04 20:46
permalink #85 of 131: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sat 10 Jan 04 20:46
My question for Bruce is, how long do you think we have before advanced weapons of mass destruction bio-engineered plagues, horrible new toxins, suitcase nukes or container ship nukes that can't be detected, or other stuff I haven't heard of yet become available to terror organizations like Osama's? *Interesting question. I was just talking to some guys at RAND about this just a couple of days ago, RAND being the original home of Herman Kahn and "thinking the unthinkable." What you're basically asking about here is some "rogue unthinkable." *We were discussing the likelihood of a "nuclear exchange" within our lifetime, and we kind of agreed that the problem with that idea nowadays isn't so much with "nuclear" as with "exchange." For instance, if Pakistan disintegrates, it becomes MORE likely that New Delhi vaporizes, but not because of some Code Orange Defcon IV missile launch in a 1960s stylee. Instead, some kamikaze Kashmiris just haul over a rogue Pakistani warhead in a bullock cart. And not thirty warheads. Just one or two. A gang of terrorists just doesn't have enough bureacratic capacity to do more than one or two. It's hard work. So there is slaughter, there is mayhem, there is genocide in a can, and the center of Indian government ceases to be. And we sort of mulled that likelihood over for a while, and then we went back to talking about AIDS. Mostly because, well, AIDS by any objective measure is going to be a lot worse than that. A whole lot worse. If global warming is going to kill off a million species by mid-century or so (as was recently suggested) that's worse than nukes, toxins and bioviruses, too. And the trend-line there is really quite steady and blatant, it doesn't require any imaginative stretch or sense of paranoid alarmism. The problem with "the unthinkable" is that when it enters into your everyday cost-benefit analysis, it's like dividing by zero. Life becomes senseless. It's reminiscent of Steiner, the intellectual in Fellini's "La Dolce Vita," who, confronting the moral abyss of the 1960s, murders his children and himself. Wouldn't it have been a little smarter of Steiner just to hang loose and see if the Cold War didn't turn into something he had never expected? It's easy to expect annihilation, but if you start invading countries out of the blue because you suspect they're 45 minutes from armageddon and it turns out there's nothing much there, it really can't much help the cause in the long run.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #86 of 131: Ted (nukem777) Sat 10 Jan 04 21:36
permalink #86 of 131: Ted (nukem777) Sat 10 Jan 04 21:36
Thanks for the response Bruce -- more to chew on. For the google impaired and those of us who like to point and click the World Social Forum is just a click away at http://www.wsfindia.org
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #87 of 131: Ted (nukem777) Sat 10 Jan 04 22:15
permalink #87 of 131: Ted (nukem777) Sat 10 Jan 04 22:15
gee, thanks for those comfortable words in #85, now that we're shaken we might as well be stirred; politics and religion. And that was certainly a case in point. How do see the major religions playing out in the future? Are they forever entangled with politics? Are we at the mercy of knee-jerk reactions to Luddites? Some kind of universal Buddhism? A new secularism? All or some of the above or something completely different?
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #88 of 131: Dan Flanery (sunspot) Sat 10 Jan 04 22:41
permalink #88 of 131: Dan Flanery (sunspot) Sat 10 Jan 04 22:41
>The problem with "the unthinkable" is that when >it enters into your everyday cost-benefit analysis, >it's like dividing by zero. Life becomes senseless. Excellent response. Something I hadn't considered. Thanks! But one thing to keep in mind - you say that AIDS is going to be a whole lot worse than terror WOMD, by any objective measure. But: 1) We could discover a vaccine or cure or effective, inexpensive treatment for AIDS tomorrow and 2) If AIDS begins to depopulate some third world nations (which hasn't begun to happen yet, in spite of a decade plus of dire warnings and ominous trend lines), might it also relieve some of the pressures driving the fundamentalist rampage to begin with? Didn't the Black Plague ultimately help to kick Europe out of the Dark Ages? If so was it bad fortune or good fortune? It's like that old, supposedly Chinese story about the old man who lost his horse (bad fortune) which soon returned home with a herd (good fortune) which the man's son began to ride, until he fell from one of the horses and broke his leg (bad fortune), which left him unable to go fight in a battle in which he surely would have been killed (good fortune). And so on.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #89 of 131: Reid Harward (reid) Sun 11 Jan 04 04:51
permalink #89 of 131: Reid Harward (reid) Sun 11 Jan 04 04:51
Hey Bruce, You mentioned some interesting ideas regarding technological tools and the emergence of software frameworks for public participation and democratic governance. I find this intriguing, also. I'm also extrememly interested in how technology can lend some concrete forensic accountability to, what I consider, dangerous, irresponsible media like cable television news. Is there any way to subvert or diminish the influence cable news has on how people perceive the world? Do you consider it much of a problem? How does irresponsible information media rate as far as a potential threat to stability and security on your personal scale?
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #90 of 131: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 11 Jan 04 07:43
permalink #90 of 131: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 11 Jan 04 07:43
1) We could discover a vaccine or cure or effective, inexpensive treatment for AIDS tomorrow *I'm all for it. and 2) If AIDS begins to depopulate some third world nations (which hasn't begun to happen yet, in spite of a decade plus of dire warnings and ominous trend lines), might it also relieve some of the pressures driving the fundamentalist rampage to begin with? Didn't the Black Plague ultimately help to kick Europe out of the Dark Ages? If so was it bad fortune or good fortune? *Well, that was the particularly frustrating part of this RAND discussion. For ages I've been trying to find a simple spreadsheet or pie chart that describes whether or not Africa is having a demographic AIDS disaster. Twenty years from now: more Africans? Fewer? What's the story? *The truth is nobody can tell. They don't have the necessary facts to make sound conjectures. They don't know how fast AIDS is spreading, what varieties of AIDS are spreading, why AIDS in Africa seems to be heterosexual when that's still a rarity in the developed world, how long people will live with AIDS, or how much war and civil disorder there will be, which always helps to spread epidemics. So futurists seem unable to squeeze even a ballpark figure out of this massive plague, which seems weird, but such is the state of the forecasting game. Massive social calamities like epidemics never have simple and straightforward effects. So, if you're Cortez, you can presumably chuckle into your conquistador beard over the fact that smallpox is annihilating the Aztec population, so that you don't have to. However, from a more general and humane perspective, I don't think this makes smallpox good news. We're a lot better off organizing to rid our species of smallpox than we are coming up with Jesuitical arguments to claim that it's somehow good for us in the long run.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #91 of 131: Seahorses of the Liver (mnemonic) Sun 11 Jan 04 12:14
permalink #91 of 131: Seahorses of the Liver (mnemonic) Sun 11 Jan 04 12:14
Bruce, it looks like the president is going to announce plans for a permanent moon base and (rather more nutty, IMHO, given the state of the art) a manned mission to Mars. Any followup thoughts on these looming initiatives?
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #92 of 131: Thomas Petersen (sushi101) Sun 11 Jan 04 15:55
permalink #92 of 131: Thomas Petersen (sushi101) Sun 11 Jan 04 15:55
sunspot 1) We could discover a vaccine or cure or effective, inexpensive treatment for AIDS tomorrow We can without much effort cure measels a few cents per person, yet 400.000 kids in Africa dies of this every year. Often it is not the cures but the political will that is the problem. This is why everyone jumps in to help on SARS, they know that they can be hit by it and there is not cure, they cannot justify to their voters that they do not do anything about the problem. With AIDS it seems different (I think) because the politicians does not really need to react to anything. People have kind of accepted that AIDS is the problem of the individual. Well that is at least how I experience it here in Denmark.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #93 of 131: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 11 Jan 04 16:51
permalink #93 of 131: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 11 Jan 04 16:51
Just a comment, since others have loads of questions and I can prop up my feet and relax... Mitch Ratcliffe and I are editing a book on 'emergent democracy' for O'Reilly Books, so I'm paying attention to the current state of "electronic democracy" thinking and tools, and it's beginning to look more and more interesting. Today technophiliacs can be somewhat effective organizing politically online, and that's begun to overlap the mainstream, most recently via the Dean and Clark presidential campaigns, which have made effective use of 'net tools to organize and raise money. You can use standard tools to organize grassroots lobbying efforts, too... and I'm waiting for the day that ordinary citizens swarm their legislators and effectively overcome some bit of obnoxious legislation, like the recent surreal redistricting of Texas.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #94 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sun 11 Jan 04 17:21
permalink #94 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sun 11 Jan 04 17:21
I'll chime in with Mike on the Mars/moonbase question, I think you partly answered it a couple of days back. .
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #95 of 131: Dennis Wilen (the-voidmstr) Sun 11 Jan 04 18:02
permalink #95 of 131: Dennis Wilen (the-voidmstr) Sun 11 Jan 04 18:02
<jonl>: For a while I've been meme-casting my explanation of the the difference between the Internet and other media "pipes": It's about the uploads. Submitted for your consideration: www.moveon.org 's open call for anti-Bush political commercials - TV spots that will soon blankent the Nation. By ordinary folks for ordinary folks.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #96 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sun 11 Jan 04 19:53
permalink #96 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sun 11 Jan 04 19:53
Isn't this what bushin30seconds.com did, did you see these Dennis?
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #97 of 131: William H. Dailey (whdailey) Sun 11 Jan 04 21:39
permalink #97 of 131: William H. Dailey (whdailey) Sun 11 Jan 04 21:39
The candidate from Vermont is a Fabian Socialist. Our nation was created a Republic, not a Democracy. 9/11 happened because Afganistan wanted to charge too much to allow a pipeline across their country. The power elite needed an excuse to go to war against them. "Computer Software Science" has been invaded by Socialism. It could be much more systematic as is Computer Hardware Science. NASA could use the flying saucers we have hidden in "Area 51" which were invented decades ago by the great engineer-scientist Tesla. In fact we could all be flying flying saucers instead of driving cars. No fuel, no fuel taxes, no roads, and no pollution. The power elite have been supressing advanced energy production for most of the last century. Now they plan to take over the energy scene using a catalyst that creates Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Electricity. See: http://www.worldenergymanagement.com There already is an example of non-polluting, decentralized power. see: http://www.jeffotto.com There is a cure for AIDS. It is just not generally known. See: http://www.devvy.com Other bad diseases would go away too, but for certain government agencies.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #98 of 131: Dennis Wilen (the-voidmstr) Sun 11 Jan 04 22:31
permalink #98 of 131: Dennis Wilen (the-voidmstr) Sun 11 Jan 04 22:31
Paranoia strikes deep Into your life it will creep It starts when you're always afraid
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #99 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Mon 12 Jan 04 06:28
permalink #99 of 131: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Mon 12 Jan 04 06:28
You nailed it Jon. Todays AAS says "wireless may be Austin's next big frontier"; it's on the Tech Monday Main page; "91 companies in Austin have a strong focus on wireless". And the wireless seminaar tomorrrow at MCC is "sold out". Bruce, what was the process you went through in deciding to write your new book, what were your research tools and what did you discover in the process of writing it. Referring to Zenith Angle.
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The 2004 Bruce Sterling State of the World Address
permalink #100 of 131: Sharon Lynne Fisher (slf) Mon 12 Jan 04 07:11
permalink #100 of 131: Sharon Lynne Fisher (slf) Mon 12 Jan 04 07:11
What *is* Fabian Socialism? I've heard of it a few times but never really got a definition.
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