Inkwell: Authors and Artists

    
Here's a new one, I'll start a topic.

How much is too much when it comes to pre-recorded music (loops,
samples, sequences, DAT's, or iTunes) being used in live performance? 
I just saw Blonde Redhead last night at Bimbo's and they use quite a
bit.  Just a bit too much for my tastes, though it sounded wonderful. 
I had to ask myself why it would bother me at all when another of my
favorites, Helio Sequence, uses loops and sequences pretty heavily as
well.  Many other bands, especially big ones like U2, basically have a
ghost member in the sound booth, triggering samples, adding synth parts
and a whole array of sounds and sound effects.  Any thoughts? 
  

    
If it's well integrated such that the band can still improvise over
them, I say the more the merrier.
  

    
Please do start topics, because I'm plum out.

For me, the question about loops and samples has to do with whether I feel 
I'm hearing something created in the moment for the moment, or just a 
canned thingiebob.  Bill Frisell and Radiohead both use tons of loops, and 
they're both amazing;  even seeing the same RH set on two different nights 
is a completely different experience.  But when Crosby and Nash used to 
use just one taped segment instead of their own voices -- "Critical Mass," 
an extremely complex piece of vocal counterpoint -- I thought it was lame 
because you were basically listening to a recording while looking at a 
stage.  Are the loops and samples in the service of something bigger and 
more spontaneous?  Then Bring Em On.
  

    
Sequences? Loops? I think they're really hard to play drums along to,
but I'm learning.
  

    
>> Are the loops and samples in the service of something bigger[...]?

I agree with Steve. What is the final effect? 

Is Amy X still playing in the SF scene? I saw her in Phoenix in 2003. 
She is an example of someone who uses high tech effects with amazing
results.  The technology serves her art and is not a crutch to cover up
for the lack of a band, lack of talent, or for laziness.  And, as MZ
suggests, if it gets in the way of improvisation, then that can be a
problem, if it's an enhancement then loop away.  

Remember the old Beach Boys song, "Good Vibrations."  That was one of
the first songs to include "artificial" enhancement.  Today its moog
synthesizer sounds very dated, but, for the time, the innovation
actually worked quite well. And, then, there was the fad of that tube
doohickie that Joe Walsh used when singing along with his guitar on
"Rockie Mountain Way" and Peter Frampton got so enamored with on his
post-Humble Pie PF-Live popaganza mega LP. The technique got to be too
much, IMHO.

You guys have a strong pop sensibility, but you also have good
instincts for layering a rich sound beneath the surface level.  Trust
your collective ear, I guess. It's working so far.  

How's that "Chills" song coming?      
  

    
it's gonna have to be a rap song.  think i'll pull a dee-dee ramone
and go gangsta.
  

    
I'm feelin' chilled already.
  

    
Ok, looping, especially live looping is well within the bounds and can
be extremely creative and used effectively.  I guess I'm taking issue
with playing along to a sequence.  It used to be that people played
along with cassettes or then DAT's.  This became somewhat frowned upon
and then suddenly if your source was a metallic notebook with a glowing
apple icon on it, it became ok again.  I guess we each have to decide
what is ok, which is why this came up for me.  Neither Blonde Redhead
nor Helio Sequence has as bass player, yet there is bass in every song.
 It doesn't bother me with Helio Sequence because their performances
are so unique and they are both making so much music at every moment. 
With Blonde Redhead it sometimes feels like cheating to me, because
other than the drummer, there are momensts when most of the sound
coming off stage is pre-recorded.  Maybe I should stay away from
starting topics...
  

    
I would suggest that nothing is out of bounds so long as the performer pulls
it off.
  

    
I completely agree Rik, the problem is in deciding who gets to say if
the performer has pulled it off or not. Do you and I get to play God,
or is that Steve Silberman's job?

Just curious. Has anyone heard Amy X ??
  

    
Did she use to go by Amy X Neuberg?    If so, she's been at this electronic
thing for 20-25 years, and she was pretty damned good when I first saw her
back about 15 years ago.    Another good one, with another last initial, no
less, is Pamela Z.   Pamela is the queen of the digital delay, and has also
been at this for over 20 years.   She is aware that the first order of
business is to be entertaining.

And I think that the audience is who determines if they pulled it off.
They pay the money that keeps the enterprise afloat.

BTW, this is the Amy of whom I speak:

<http://www.amyxneuburg.com/>

And this is the Pamela:

<http://www.pamelaz.com/>
  

    
> Do you and I get to play God,
 or is that Steve Silberman's job?


Oy gevult!
  

    
When we're talking about what people get away with in performance, the
audience is god, of course.  If loops and tapes and synthetic sounds keep
the audience and the artists happy, then that's art, no?
  

    
it's a good topic, just hard to pin down.  it seems very
case-specific.  
and it's up to you if you think it's working or not.  the tools do
nothing unless someone decides to do something with them.  i'd rather
helio sequence not get a live bass player, that's for sure.  it would
throw off the whole aesthetic.  
  

    
i've officially started and ended my rap career in like a day.
  

    
heh.
  

    
Yes.  That's the same Amy X.  

And I'm pleased to hear it's the audience who decides.  Those dang
bandmembers have too many perks as it is!

And Brett, if rap isn't working, can't you turn "Chills" into a
schmaltzy polka or somthing?

God is very forgiving, I hear.
  

    
allright already with the "chills" thing.  i refuse to write a song
based on "doles out chills like condoms at the castro street fair". 
clever, sure, but...polka? hmmmm.  

god better be forgiving, it's his/her/it's fault, no?
  

    
we, the humble audience, have no choice but to respect your artistic
integrity, Brett.  So you won't mind when Mr. Gans turns this little
one line ditty of yours into a mega hit?   ;=)

But, seriously.  Have you ever had one lyric, one line, inspire one of
your songs.  If so, did the melody to that line come immediately, or
did you write a stanza of words first before the music side hit?  
  

    
Guys:

If you could play any venue in the country, where would it be?

What's the best place you ever played, and the worst?

What's the most bizarre thing that an audience member ever did at a TLxN 
show?
  

    
Oooops… not TLxN-related, but I dare anybody to top this. My old band
once (well, more than once) had the bass amp go up in smoke. As we got
another amp on stage, a guy in a white tuxedo with a gorilla mask got
up from the crowd and played the spoons for five minutes; it was "Tea
for Two". The crowd went wild, and demanded an encore. That was "The
Star Spangled Banner". I might have seen something as strange at a GD
show, but perhaps not.

So, what's the weirdest thing that a TLxN audience member ever did.
  

    
while i'm trying to think of the weirdest thing a TLXN audience member
ever did at a gig, I'll tell you what the funniest thing a TLXN member
ever did onstage: three times now, our bassist Yuki (who is normally a
mild-mannered, quiet Japanese fellow who mostly keeps to himself) has
become so full of energy and excitement during the rave-up section of
"Sympathy" that he spontaneously walked off the stage and into the
crowd, still playing his bass. The last time this happened in San
Francisco was at a sold-out Cafe Du Nord show we played last year. And
he even played his bass in the crowd AND behind his back at our show in
Olympia earlier this month.
  

    
Best venue we've ever played: probably the Independent in San
Francisco. Wonderful sound, wonderful big stage, great management and
sound personnel (even though we have our own sound genius Freeway
Migliore), and great treatment in the green room.

The worst venue we've ever played was actually one of the best shows
we've ever played, which goes to show that when you're an independent
touring band each gig is like a box of chocolates. It was The Red,
White & Brew Pub: a dive bar in Redding, CA with no stage, no monitors,
no nothing. The place held about 100 people tops and that's how many
showed up. It was loud, sweaty, and fun as hell. We'll be going back
there soon for sure.

And any venue in the United States? Maybe Red Rocks.
  

    
> sound genius Freeway Migliore


Was that the dude (fairly hot, I must say) running the board at the Well
thang?  The sound was good.  What a name that guy has -- very
Sopranoesque.


That's wild about the spoons guy, ssol.
  

    
Yeah, Freeway was at B.O.T.H. saturday. And that's his real name. Says
so on his birth certificate. He does sound at the Bimbos, Warfield,
Fillmore, etc. and is nice enough to help us out at most of our local
shows. He's even come on the road with us a few times.