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permalink #51 of 89: It's all done with mirrors... (kafclown) Tue 15 Jan 08 07:10
permalink #51 of 89: It's all done with mirrors... (kafclown) Tue 15 Jan 08 07:10
There's another term for this "change blindness" There's a great example (taken from a BBC video) at <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAnKvo-fPs0&NR=1>
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permalink #52 of 89: Richard Wiseman (r-wiseman) Tue 15 Jan 08 17:02
permalink #52 of 89: Richard Wiseman (r-wiseman) Tue 15 Jan 08 17:02
hi all sorry about the delay - been in brainstorming meetings all day and only just sitting down at my computer. I have carried out quite a few studies into mediumship and psychics. The bottom line is that I don't think there is anything genuine going on, but the psychology is fascinating. Often, the 'action' is in the mind of the sitter, as they struggle to make sense of vague statements. I have been for quite a few readings and they have all been hopeless. Re deception of participants, yes, it is a problem. The bottom line is that I never do it in mass participation or public experiments. People would hate it and, as you say, debriefing is a problem. However, in a controlled context it is easier, but still a last resort. I am hosting a new 20 part TV show that starts in a few weeks time here, and we did loads of hidden camera demonstrations for it (about 80 of them) - that also raises ethical issues but most people loved finding out that they had been part of a TV show. Re the sideshow stuff, there are some pages on my work on the science of contortion at: http://www.richardwiseman.com/talks/delia.html I have also just been commissioned to produce a much larger show on this theme later this year. All of the change blindness stuff is great, and, of course I have written a book on the basketball clip, so know it quite well! best wishes richard
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permalink #53 of 89: Lisa Harris (lrph) Wed 16 Jan 08 06:25
permalink #53 of 89: Lisa Harris (lrph) Wed 16 Jan 08 06:25
Just to be the Devil's advocate for a minute, but I was under the impression that science has proven we do not utilize the entire capacity of our brains. If that is so, how can you/we completely discount psychic ability? There is a great unknown about what our true minds' potential is, and perhaps it includes the ability/ies to understand another person's life or condition intuitively. Is there really any way to test that yet?
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permalink #54 of 89: Rick Brown (danwest) Wed 16 Jan 08 12:58
permalink #54 of 89: Rick Brown (danwest) Wed 16 Jan 08 12:58
>but I was under the impression >that science has proven we do not utilize the entire capacity of our >brains That is a common myth, however it is not true. http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percent.asp
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permalink #55 of 89: Richard Wiseman (r-wiseman) Wed 16 Jan 08 13:45
permalink #55 of 89: Richard Wiseman (r-wiseman) Wed 16 Jan 08 13:45
hi I don't discount the idea of there being ESP on any theoretical grounds, but rather because I think that it is not supported by the evidence. best r
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permalink #56 of 89: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 16 Jan 08 16:02
permalink #56 of 89: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 16 Jan 08 16:02
Earlier -- in the intro as I seem to recall -- there was a reference to luck. I'm very interested in the psychology of luck and how it is used and abused. One thing I've observed is a pattern where a bad thing happens, and the "victim" later recontexutalizes it into good luck. A person gets the bad news of a cancer diagnosis and the need to operate. The person feels this is bad luck. Later the same person often decides there was good luck involved: The luck of early diagnosis and better prognosis The luck of learning to treasure remaining days and not bog down in triviality The luck of whatever changes followed that turning point in the story etc, etc. How do your studies of luck relate to your work on Quirkology?
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permalink #57 of 89: Linda Castellani (castle) Wed 16 Jan 08 17:07
permalink #57 of 89: Linda Castellani (castle) Wed 16 Jan 08 17:07
That's a great question, Gail!
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permalink #58 of 89: What is going to amuse our bouches now? (bumbaugh) Thu 17 Jan 08 07:54
permalink #58 of 89: What is going to amuse our bouches now? (bumbaugh) Thu 17 Jan 08 07:54
That's an interesting phenomenon, for sure. Not the same thing, but it reminds me of work (Ellen Langer?) on "the illusion of control." We tend to overstimate our ability to determine outcomes -- real chance is scary stuff. Wow! She has a really pretty home page: http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~langer/ http://www.istheory.yorku.ca/illusionofcontrol.htm Heads I win, tails it's chance: The illusion of control as a function of the sequence of outcomes in a purely chance task. Studied attributions in a purely chance task (predicting coin tosses) as a function of either a descending, ascending, or random sequence of outcomes and as a function of whether the S performed the task himself or observed another S performing the task. A primary effect was predicted; early successes would induce a skill orientation towards the task. Data from 90 male undergraduates support the prediction. Ss in the descending condition rated themselves as significantly better at predicting the outcomes of coin tosses than Ss in either of the other 2 groups. This group also overremembered past successes and expected more future successes than the other 2 groups. Involvement had the effect of increasing Ss' expectations of future successes and tended to increase their evaluation of their past performance.
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permalink #59 of 89: Lisa Harris (lrph) Thu 17 Jan 08 08:09
permalink #59 of 89: Lisa Harris (lrph) Thu 17 Jan 08 08:09
That's cool. It seems with this, as with what Richard said in his book, that perception is the key to luck. Those of us who think we're lucky can point to all the times we've been lucky. Those who think they're not lucky point to all the times they were not.
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permalink #60 of 89: Lena M. Diethelm (lendie) Thu 17 Jan 08 11:25
permalink #60 of 89: Lena M. Diethelm (lendie) Thu 17 Jan 08 11:25
"if it wasn't for bad luck, i wouldn't ahve any"
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permalink #61 of 89: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 17 Jan 08 11:46
permalink #61 of 89: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 17 Jan 08 11:46
It also helps account for the oft-observed phenomenon that people who win the first time out at gambling have a high likelihood of trying again. And speaks to all kinds of hustles from 3-card Monty to Pidgeon Drop where you are given a chance to think you are winning with your brains through no stakes or low stakes, then you bet big and skill is removed from the equation, and chance, too if it's a well-designed con.
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permalink #62 of 89: Richard Wiseman (r-wiseman) Thu 17 Jan 08 14:50
permalink #62 of 89: Richard Wiseman (r-wiseman) Thu 17 Jan 08 14:50
I talk more about luck in The Luck Factor than Quirkology, and the basic idea is that you make your own luck. I have put lots online at: http://www.richardwiseman.com/research/psychologyluck.html including all of the surname work, and superstition etc. The Langer stuff is v good, and speaks to the same topic.
Reading your luck material made me think of "The Secret". Did you see any similarity there? "The Secret" told people that by positive thinking they could actually change the universe. But perhaps it caused some people to increase their success by motivating them to change their behaviors in ways that might in some cases have been like your luck classes. Or maybe the only people who benefitted from The Secret were the authors and publishers.
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permalink #64 of 89: Linda Castellani (castle) Thu 17 Jan 08 21:20
permalink #64 of 89: Linda Castellani (castle) Thu 17 Jan 08 21:20
Not to mention the filmmakers!
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permalink #65 of 89: What is going to amuse our bouches now? (bumbaugh) Fri 18 Jan 08 07:45
permalink #65 of 89: What is going to amuse our bouches now? (bumbaugh) Fri 18 Jan 08 07:45
(Reminder: Readers following on the Web may e-mail inkwell@well.com to add to the conversation.) So, those of you contributing here, what's the "quirkiest" research you've run across?
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permalink #66 of 89: Linda Castellani (castle) Fri 18 Jan 08 14:57
permalink #66 of 89: Linda Castellani (castle) Fri 18 Jan 08 14:57
Well, I kind of like the research that Richard conducted into The World's Funniest Joke. He created a Web site: http://laughlab.co.uk/ Where people could submit their jokes and also rate jokes that had already been submitted. As he describes in his book, it immediately became apparent that they would have to limit the number of jokes that could be posted on the site because the ones they received were too dirty for primetime. He mentions a notable example that involved two nuns, a large bunch of bananas, an elephant and Yoko Ono, although he doesn't tell that joke. People were asked to rate the jokes that *were* posted on the site on a 5-point scale, and was ultimately able to discover that Plato was right. According to Wiseman, Plato observed in The Republic that people laugh when the joke allows them to feel superior to others. One of the jokes that rated well on the site was this: A teacher decided to take her bad mood out on her class of children and so said, "Can everyone who thinks they're stupid, stand up!" After a few seconds, just one child slowly stood up. The teacher turned to the child and said, "Do you think you're stupid?" "No," replied the child, "but I hate to see you stand there all by yourself." Later in the chapter on the search for the world's funniest joke, he examines another source of humor that I know is near and dear to *our* hearts, computers. Two people from the University of Ediburgh created a computer program that could produce jokes. Wiseman and his fellow researchers entered some of the computer-produced jokes on the LaughLab site to be rated, and says that they received some of the lowest rates on the site. One successfully rate joke was, as he says, surprisingly successful [and I have to say, *I* am surprised]: "What kind of murderer has the most fiber? A cereal killer." pa-dum Another example are those in which there is incongruity between the setup and the punch line: Two fish in a tank. One turns to the other and says, "Do you know how to drive this?" In addition, they started to examine what happened to people's brains when they laughed at these types of jokes. Richard, could you elaborate on the experiments that you did, and your subsequent findings?
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permalink #67 of 89: uber-muso hipster hyperbole (pjm) Fri 18 Jan 08 15:08
permalink #67 of 89: uber-muso hipster hyperbole (pjm) Fri 18 Jan 08 15:08
"My dog has no nose" "How does he smell?" "Awful" === Two peanuts were walking down the Polkstrasse One was assalted
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permalink #68 of 89: Sharon Lynne Fisher (slf) Fri 18 Jan 08 16:16
permalink #68 of 89: Sharon Lynne Fisher (slf) Fri 18 Jan 08 16:16
I've been teaching my seven-year-old daughter that many jokes depend on a word being able to be taken two different ways.
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permalink #69 of 89: Teleological dyslexic (ceder) Fri 18 Jan 08 16:28
permalink #69 of 89: Teleological dyslexic (ceder) Fri 18 Jan 08 16:28
Ask her why is seven the scariest number? {Because 7, 8, 9.}
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permalink #70 of 89: Linda Castellani (castle) Fri 18 Jan 08 17:22
permalink #70 of 89: Linda Castellani (castle) Fri 18 Jan 08 17:22
Did you also introduce her to the phrase "double entendre?"
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permalink #71 of 89: It's all done with mirrors... (kafclown) Sat 19 Jan 08 04:50
permalink #71 of 89: It's all done with mirrors... (kafclown) Sat 19 Jan 08 04:50
One of my favorite kid jokes also depends on the element of surprise: "What's brown and sticky?" " a Stick" Or "What has five legs and flies?" "A Cow." "But a cow doesn't have five legs." "I added a leg to make it harder."
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permalink #72 of 89: Rick Brown (danwest) Sat 19 Jan 08 07:13
permalink #72 of 89: Rick Brown (danwest) Sat 19 Jan 08 07:13
Richard, I also enjoyed your book "Magic in Theory" Although it is obvious in presentations like the colour changing card, in what other ways has magic informed your academic research? I perform a trick called "Deep Astonishment II", in which a fortune telling bit becomes a (in my case) precognition reveal. When people are fried with this, I often wonder what their though process is -- as they try to reconstruct what just happened. Since I have never seen the trick performed by another magician, I always wonder what is going through the mind of the spectator -- and it is hard to fathom that as I always watch other magicians as another magician (in other words after I am always thinking methods. It is a canard that if the audience is trying to reverse-engineer a trick, the magician has failed. I don't believe this, some folks are always going to try figure out how it was done -- and a spectator who is going to groove on just the wonder of the magic is a rarity. I have always wondered about this relationship -- the contract between magician (or psychic, or whatever). In theatre, the suspension of disbelief is a place one strives to get the audience too. Does this ever really happen in magic? I know that there are folks who, no matter what I tell them, believe there is the supernatural at work. What differentiates them from those who can look it as only entertainment? Are they just more gullible?
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permalink #73 of 89: Linda Castellani (castle) Sat 19 Jan 08 13:27
permalink #73 of 89: Linda Castellani (castle) Sat 19 Jan 08 13:27
Speaking for myself, I love magic and magicians. Whenever I meet one, I ask for a pass to The Magic Castle. Then I'm in for an evening of absolute bliss. I know that I'm being duped in some way, but that doesn't ruin the magic of it for me. I am vastly entertained by the creativity of the illusions and I entertain myself wondering how it was done, but I don't try too hard because I don't want to ruin it for myself. And it doesn't matter what kind of illusion. From David Copperfield making the Statue of Liberty disappear to the small parlors of personal magic that they have at the castle to David Blaine on TV seemingly putting his hand through a glass window to pull out an item in a display case, or removing his shirt to reveal the photo of a woman drawn on his abdomen, I'm thrilled with it all. I admit, I love to consider the possibility that magic exists, as well as ghosts and psychic ability. But if I knew how it was done, I doubt that I would enjoy it as much, if at all. I used to love David Copperfield, until I saw him at the Opera House in San Francisco, a performance I looked forward to with great excitement. At the end of that performance, he made it "snow" inside the Opera House. I was charmed with the illusion, I knew it wasn't snow, but I loved it anyway. Until, as we were leaving our balcony seats, I stumbled across the "snow"-making cannon camouflaged at the edge of the balcony. That completely ruined everything for me, including my interest in David Copperfield. So, I guess you could say that I "want" to be duped.
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permalink #74 of 89: Idea Hamster On Speed (randomize27) Sat 19 Jan 08 13:52
permalink #74 of 89: Idea Hamster On Speed (randomize27) Sat 19 Jan 08 13:52
I want to be duped too. I watch a magician perform, and I know they're using visual and attention deception, and enjoy the show. It's like watching a good science fiction movie. I know they're not on a space ship in deep space, but as long as it looks like it, it's okay for me. It's all a story, and I enjoy it.
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permalink #75 of 89: Richard Wiseman (r-wiseman) Sat 19 Jan 08 16:03
permalink #75 of 89: Richard Wiseman (r-wiseman) Sat 19 Jan 08 16:03
hi all yes, the perception of magic is fascinating. There is a great Penn and Teller routine where the audience see a trick and have a decision. They can either keep their eyes open and see how the trick was achieved, or close them and never know the secret. I have always wanted to know what types of people went with each option. There is a concept in psychology called 'need for cognition', and I think people who score high would want to know how the tricks are performed. I think more people just treat it as entertainment. The psychic link is also interesting - I suspect that most people going to psychics simply are not thinking in terms of trickery. Certainly, all of the fake psychic work I have seen is terrible, in that a 5 year old could work it out. I have heard that Deep Astonishment II is great. I have spent some time with Paul H and he is an interesting guy to be around! There is a bit about the psychology of magic, and my interview with Jeff McBride, and experiment with Max Maven, on my website at: http://www.richardwiseman.com/research/lyingmain.html best r
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