Hey! When did I stop beating my wife? There is no sport inkwell.vue, more's the pity. I think you would be a fine addition to the well, david, and you are fun etc.! however, you are a big ole sexist and if you join the well we're larn ya gud.
Mr. Walley, you are good at making distinctions and categories. Midway through TNB you differentiate between "rock stars" and "musicians:" "There are rock stars and then there are musicians, and rarely do their two worlds politically coincide except on stage or in the studio. Within this pleasant prison fiction, rock stars are expected to champion political causes because they're celebrities. Meanwhile, rhythm guitarists, bass players, percussionists, or horn players, the worker bee foot soldiers on whose backs the celebrities stand, the ones who support the rock gods and superstars, are dismissed as virtual nonpersons. We want rock stars and that's what we get, unfortunately. It's better like that, since most musicians are a low-key lot and prefer to keep ou of the limelight. With some exceptions, musicians tend to hold liberal or libertarian views if only because they work under all sorts of conditions with all manner of people; to get by to earn a living, they've got to get along. That's the reason professional musicans tend to have "out" senses of humor, why, for instance, David Letterman or Jay Leno, on their late night talk shows, direct all their bad jokes to the band, because the guys have seen and hear it all before. And it really is true. The band sees everything. Unlike rock stars, musicians have simple needs: (1) they like to play their music and (2) they like to get paid, though they'll play even if they don't get paid. Unscrupulous club owners and managers have exploited this since time immemorial: they know that dedicated musicians will endure the most frightful working conditions just so long as they can express themselves musically and be free for those 15, 45, or 75 minutes on stage. On the other hand, though a rock band may think it's getting paid to musically tell it like it is by its fans, once it signs on the dotted line, the record company calls the tune, like it or not. Only in retrospect, after the band becomes part of the music business for a while, does it start to realize just how lucky it was when it was on the outside looking in." Great stuff. Is it EVER possible for rock and roll to be politically sincere and effective? Or is always filtered through the concerns of the business world?
Asked and answered, Barry? It has to do more with how one deals with fame and notoriety. At the same time I don't know whether being a "rock start" is a career choice anymore. It's not like people get together to form a rock and roll band to "say something" as much as tohave fun for a bit, travel and see the world. YOu have to have a great deal of commitment to want to be a musician, practice, practice, praactice---it appears that peole who get into rock and roll bands want the flash, but they don't want the work. But for me, music isn't exactly my life though it still can be the soundtrack of my life. anyway, Cynthia, I'm glad to be amusing you
actually, Cynthia, the "sport" I was thinking about is bear baiting, which is as apt a metaphor as I cam come up with on my birthday. Anyway, I'm intrigued as to why I'd make a great addition to this community, surely you have available other forms of amusement, don't you?
The passage quoted in <102> is right on the money.
David, none of the people responsible for this conference regard it as a bear-pit, ferchrissakes.
That's a good thing to know :-))), but while we're on the subject, if only briefly, this sexist pig vacuums, makes beds, dishes,(pots a speciality!) takes out the garbage, cooks, does laundry too. I'd like to know what sexist does that---I I get it, it's the attitude that goes along with it--- no, I didn't *think* is was a bear baiting pit, anyway, it's nice that you agree with me, David, about what Barry posted from TNB---when I was working in the business, musicians I used to interview always used to ask me what instrument I played. I said "Selectric II" and they laughed.
David, the very fact that you think it's noteworthy that you do those things can be implied to think that it's not really your job. In any event, what some people here appear to be pointing out is some sexism in your attitudes as posted here, not your facility with household chores. If the reaction is simply going to be "Am not!" it's not really worth my time to explain my perspective; other people may feel it's a better use of their time, and certainly <plum> could do so more entertainingly than I.
Not even gonna get into chores and like that... but meanwhile I'm reading... Looking at the part of the book About WALMART music... and the censorship inherent in the marketplace brings up some questions about how music is marketed online. Is this a great flowering for alternative labels, or will we see monopolies arise here too? I'm thinkingo of all those Amazon and small bookseller discussions, too, of course.
inkwell.vue.33
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David Walley
permalink #110 of 351: impoverished intervallic palette (castle) Thu 18 Mar 99 12:49
permalink #110 of 351: impoverished intervallic palette (castle) Thu 18 Mar 99 12:49
Happy birthday David from a fellow Pisces!!
Sharon: i'm really not sure the drift of all of this is; I do know that it's fairily unproductive to keep flogging this horse; suficed to say, I've alwyas done my share (and more); women and women and men are men, and it's the differences between the two species which makes this world so interesting and keeps people on their toes. As for "it' not my job" kind of thinking, it's always been my job. I odn't imply nuthin'; you're the one who's implying implications. I'm really not that evolved or devious, I just come out and say what's on my mind, thank you--- meanwhile Gail is moving right along, seems she's now reading "Bopxers or Briefs: Poilitics in the Post-Elvis Age" and I think she's got it, asking the questions that I had hped readers would mull over. There's always going to be "alternative" until it becomes "mainstream" then something else takes its place, but yes, I think you've got it. Thanks for the salutations Castle on this day of days. Never thought I'd make it this long, thought that I woudlnt survive 29---
If you think it's unproductive, I won't waste your time and mine any further.
inkwell.vue.33
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David Walley
permalink #113 of 351: Smouldering Lust And Motorcycle Mechanics (jmara) Thu 18 Mar 99 16:39
permalink #113 of 351: Smouldering Lust And Motorcycle Mechanics (jmara) Thu 18 Mar 99 16:39
I'm concerned because I always thought it was "Who put the bop in the bop- she-bop-she-bop," and now I'm doubting myself. Next thing you know, I'll find out it wasn't "Ting, tang, walla walla bing bang." But seriously, is it really the BOMP, and not the BOP?
Definitely BOMP!
it was probably "bop", but it could just as well have been "bomp", although I think that "bomp" is, in some circles correct. And thank you David for nudging that one in--- as for sharon, really I dont mean to be dismissive, but I'm really not interested in pursuing your drift. And yes, I do think it's "unproductive" because it gets talked and talked and talked about and it's been talked about since Adam and Eve, and will continue to be talked about until the last syllable of recorded time. I worry when men and women STOP talking about this.
Not into drift -- never mind the media conf.
Oh fuck. I'm gonna get into it. Yes, I am. Just for a second. David. Don't you dare get resentful, I'm keeping it light. Your parable bothered me. It seemed to me not a parody of cliches, but a story with a moral, which is that successful women who ignore their children will get their comeuppance. But! One of the things you took for granted in this parable was that it was the mother who should stay home for the child, the father wasn't even mentioned. By doing this you were presupposing all sorts of things and those things are so important to me that I can't just let them slide by. This does not mean that I am not charmed by your thoughts on many other things, but please keep an open mind about all things in these gender communications. I had an assistant a couple of years ago named Glen. He was a smart and darling fellow, 23 years old. Here's what he wanted to be when he grew up: A rock star. In fact he once said, "If I can't be a rock star I don't know what I'll do." Naturally I worried about him. Yes, he was a musician, but that didn't count to him. Glen subsequently died by driving insanely on his motorcycle. It was and is still so heartbreaking. I think he was having a teenage nervous breakdown and it is just so awful.
That's so sad.
Jez, Synchia, getta grip, how's talking about keeping it light? OK, whatever you say. I getcha, but I 'wasn't' making a statement about the mother staying home, I was just twisting the thing around. So would it be funny or 'ier if the man is getting the pickle from not being mister mom? I should write one about that, and if you keep bugging me, I probably will, but not right now. CAROL: just for the hallibut, I have gone out ordered and in my hot litlle hands is YOUR book, and now I understand what your'e responding to in TNB. I was another take on the music business, the eastcoast acifhead scene, there was that, what was hapening in Berkeley, in LA, Austin, and other ports in the storm. We should get together and jaw about that stuff because as cuolturalhistory, it needs to be put in its niche, given its due instead of always being winked at, ---like no one inhales anymore.
Cynthia; sorry for your loss, that is a sad story; just multiply his condition to the rest of society
Talk to Me Once upon a time there was a woman who was married to a hard-working dependable guy who, she insisted, never talked to her. Oh, he was attentive enough, well-spoken, and good in bed which, after a decade of marriage and a few kids, was saying something. Rarely if ever did he have "night out with the boys", or make her a football widow during playoff season. He was also a world-class putterer and do-it-yourself-er who maintained their cars, things men were always good at. At first when they just had each other, life was orderly, he worked downtown, she freelanced out of the house as a design consultant, and they talked about everything all of the time. Like most other couples, they slept in on weekends (or when he called in sick to work), went to the movies and dinner, and vacationed. Their first child, a girl, significantly altered this cozy relationship, hers more than his. When he was around, he was curious, helpful and even did the night shift when asked. Before she crashed for the night, she'd fill him in on The Latest Developments. Tradition was observed when it came to diapers: ie. she did them since she was at home --- it was her girl, she knew more about them than he did. It's not that he didn't try, it's just that he made such a borscht and a shambles out of it that she was forced to step in when she couldn't stand watching him fumble any longer. Assuming that it was through genetic ineptitude not unfamiliarity, she stopped asking him altogether while secretly resenting him, wondering why things were like that. As her girl grew into a toddler, the woman's energy level along with her attention span declined from the sheer exhaustion of keeping baby out of mischief, her major activity since the business was on hold until she came out the other side of Babyland. Their evenings together gradually grew strained, being less of an inter- connected conversation and more like a series of reports. In time, he stopped asking how her day was because he'd know just by looking at her, and rather than have her re-live it in excruciating detail, sought to divert her with office gossip just to make her laugh. Of course she was bushed and stressed out by the end of the day, he'd be too if he was in her place. For her part, since he didn't ask, she assumed that he no longer seemed as interested in her or her world; and who else could she bitch to? Thinking better of it, not wanting to bring him down when he seemed so up and positive, she let him prattle on while she silently fumed inside. How could he be bored with their child? Was he losing interest in their lives together? Why didn't he say anything? And because she didn't say anything to the contrary, he assumed everything was UNDER CONTROL. He would have cooked dinner since he knew how, but she preferred to do that herself as a matter of honor. Of course he'd wait, there were other more important priorities in her life now. Still he did his chores, maintained the cars and the house while she was nagged by the feeling that he didn't care. Maybe he intuit it, eventually catch on and get with the program such as it had become she'd dream. Their second child, a boy, was less of a shock to her system because now she had a good one in place. Her husband seemed to take more of an interest and was marginally better with diapers too. When they were perchance alone at night, she no longer thought of sharing details of the children with him, and of course he didn't ask thinking that if there was anything out of the extraordinary, she'd tell him. Finally when both children were in pre-K and she had more time to herself to think about working again, she brooded, meditating on his apparent ineptitude and indifference. Introspectively overloaded and over the top in more ways than one, instead of telling her husband any of this, she confided to her therapist at $40 dollars an hour. She was now well into the process of poisoning her sex life, having convinced herself that his "oblivious" nature extended from his children to her, though none of this had actually been confirmed. In subsequent sessions she revealed elaborate fantasy scenarios of her husband collapsing under the strain of the obligations, and how the children would live in squalor and discord without her around. Afterwards at home, she'd maintain a stiff upper lip when he asked why she seemed to stressed of late though behind her cool fascade she was actively speculating on who of her friends her husband was checking out when she was put out to pasture. The marriage would have gone south had not fortune intervened in the guise of an emergency in her family which required her presence, alone, for a weekend. After exhausting the possibilities of alternate care including Rent-A-Nanny, Housekeepers-'r-Us, relatives or the like, she reluctantly prepped her husband with a ten page single-spaced ukase including relevant phone numbers and medical information. With a heavy heart she boarded her plane for her mother's, and while buckling in thought it would be a modern miracle if she returned home and they weren't all dead. Oh the house would be standing and the cars would be runing, but everything inside would be a wipe, and I'll bet that Clarisse (her nemesis, the likely Candidate, Mrs. Perfect) will have put in an appearance by then, and that's IT for me. Her mood nose-dived further when her departure was delayed for two hours because of icing on the wings and she arrived at her mother's just after a freak electrical storm had wiped out the phones. When she finally got through it was The Witching Hour when the kids were out of school and gnarly because they were hungry and tired. From the ambient room noise it was obvious that all hell was breaking loose. There, she thought grimly to herself, now he'll know what it's like. However, rather than being frantic and crazed, he was surprisingly low-key and cheerful. She imagined him talking in a shambles of a kitchen with a sink-full of dirty dishes and the laundry was strewn in heaps around the house, but obviously he wasn't letting on how bad it really was. Oh course things weren't running as smoothly without her but for the most part he had it covered. He sounded rushed and harried, but as everyone with young children knows, having a coherent conversation at the Witching Hour was fruitless. Not to worry, after he bedded the kids down, he'd call; she just couldn't wait. Yes it was certainly an experience to deal with the kids full- time though he hadn't run into anything untoward (she marveled at his sang froid). Marnie's cold was better, she wasn't interested in what was pre-prepared for dinner so he whipped up something which did the trick. When he picked up Little Tommy from school, his first grade teacher told him his son was less fidgety and had stopped being such a buttinsky in class (that wasn't on the list she thought). It also appeared the boy was outgrowing his need to have his teddy eat real food because " Teddy liked pretend much better". (How did he know that?). And on he went, very completely, enthusiastically, and in loving and knowing detail. She was waiting for the other shoe to fall since as the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished. Still she was astonished how it was dropped thirty-five minutes later into his update. "Oh and your friend, Clarisse came over to check in to see that everything was all right (I'll bet, she did)," he announced casually. "She was overdressed for the occasion and wearing this perfume that was deadly. You think her husband goes for that? Anyway I gave her a quick cup of coffee and sent her on her way. For some reason she seemed disappointed when I told her that I had pick-up to do and lunches to make, but I said I'd call her if I needed anything which I don't think I'll do. I don't know what you see in her, dear, she's such an overbearing cow at times, don't you think?" She no longer had a clue what to think. "I'm thinking of taking the kids to a ball game Saturday and then we'll have pizza later. I probably shouldn't subject them to my cooking twice without some kind of respite, " he added in his charming self-deprecating way and vowed to check in with her Saturday evening. After hanging up she was thoroughly confused if not demoralized now that the careful systematic reasoning she'd developed in therapy began to unravel before her very ears. She was overcome with a whole raft of conflicting emotions as well as a sinking feeling that perhaps she had misjudged him. The anecdote about Clarisse was accurate and right on the money she knew because he was a bad liar, a quality she'd all but overlooked in her catalogue of his sins. That night she experienced the first good sleep she'd had in what seemed like years, and in the morning awoke refreshed and far more capable of dealing with whatever shenanigans her mother had prepared especially for her. That night they talked for what seemed like the first time since the children had come into their lives, and she found herself falling in love with him all over again. "I'm just so amazed and delighted that everything's all right at home, " she enthused. " Why shouldn't they be? They're my kids too, I live here, I have to be a participant, don't I?" "But it's so funny that some of the things you told me I wasn't sure you were even aware of." "It's all part of maintenance isn't it, only it's on what's inside the house, not outside --- " " --- I mean I thought you weren't interested, you never said anything to me--" "You never asked me. If you had, I would have told you, so I just picked it up by myself." "But I never saw you." "Well, I was lurking around, you were just too pre-occupied to notice me. I'm a good lurker, you know." She admitted that he was and how intensely she missed him. Still she couldn't kick the feeling of impending doom when she arrived home the following afternoon. To her great relief, the children greeted her enthusiastically; they were clean and well- turned out while the house, save for the laundry room, a lost cause for even her, was in good order. After dinner when the children were safely in bed, she made love like she meant it, and told him so. The following Monday after cutting her therapist loose, she asked her husband how exactly he made that "surprise" that Marnie raved about. Moral: Assume nothing; talk is much cheaper than therapy and twice as effective.
Is this another one that I'm supposed to find funny?
Unfortunately yes:-)))
Huh. Doesn't read like comedy to me, Sharon. The other story was like a joke that fell flat. I could disagree with the premise of this one or find it unlikely, but it has a warm, wistful tone, not cold finger-pointing one, and that makes it richer even though it doesn't play like a joke.
Ah, well, so much for my finely honed appreciation and critque of humor. (David's post slipped in ahead while I typed.)
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