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Gary Greenberg, The Noble Lie
permalink #151 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Sat 6 Dec 08 13:08
permalink #151 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Sat 6 Dec 08 13:08
"In her room in Columbia-Presbyterian Hospital, located in a slummy corner of north Manhattan, [von Bulow] is dressed daily by round-the-clock attendants who also see to her hair, makeup and nails. A small stereo radio fills the room with her favorite music. At no time during this period [1982-96] has Sunny von Bulow ever given any sign of self-awareness. She cannot respond to stimuli -- sights, sounds, touch. She is nourished via a food tube. Neurological experts declare that her loss of consciousness is irreversible. And yet: she is capable of breathing on her own, without a respirator. Her brain-waves show sleep-wake sequences. Now and then her lips curl into a smile. Her eyes open periodically and are said to tear when she is visited by her children Ala and Alexander Auersperg." -- from a 1996 University of Toronto classroom case study on the ethics of death http://www.quahog.org/attractions/index.php?id=43
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permalink #152 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Sun 7 Dec 08 10:48
permalink #152 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Sun 7 Dec 08 10:48
When I was talking to doctors in the U.S., I was horrified at the ease with which they dismissed the possibility that something was going on inside teh people in pvs or other brain-devastated states. It was enough to make you agree with the right-to-lifers that they were all a bunch of Kevorkians, although what was fairer to say is that they held, nearly without self-criticism, a view of human life that equated it to the life of the brain. That's not an implausible view, certainly more plausible than equating it to, say, the liver, but it's still a view and not a fact. And like all views, it has an ideology behind it. The absolute refusal of most doctors even to grant this possibility, let alone to explore and critique the ideology, was quite stunning. And when I was in Cuba at the Brain Death and Coma Conference, where the main attraction was a neurologist showing video of a boy who'd been brain dead for more than a decade, but was still breathing, etc., their unwillingness to grant the guy's irrefutable point--that that state of being might be many things, but dead didn't seem to fit the bill--was striking and, in its own way, horrifying. When I was in Japan, on the other hand, I was equally horrified at the way the women tending the brain-devastated (I met exclusively mothers) seemed unaware of how they were animating their children, attributing a conscious life to them that seemed more their fantasy than anything else, and which, if it did exist, would itself be horrible--to be aware of yourself in that condition would have to be some kind of unimaginable hell. Still, even though it was impossible to avoid the feeling that they were playing dolls with their boys, it was also impossible not to be moved by their devotion, and aware of the possibility that they knew something that I didn't, that didn't show up on the MRIs. I should add that I had a cousin who was in a persistent vegetative state for more than thirty years. He was the bright and shining boy of my mother's generation, a devastatingly handsome, bright man who was going to be a navy flier and then who knows what, until he crashed his convertible, got ejected, and landed on his head. His mother, my great-aunt, refused to give up on him. She built a hospital room in her house, and every week brought him home from the VA Hospital, where she tended him with the aid of a nurse. The rest of my family thought that my aunt was buts--and truth to tell, she was a little nuts--but you couldn't be around her and not understand that she really loved her son. Was her devotion merely an attempt to accept reality or to forestall her grief? I once thought so, but now I think that's a really inadequate response. AFter all, she re-visited her grief every weekend. In the presence of horror, it's easy to see just how puny our categories are, and how little we really know.
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permalink #153 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Sun 7 Dec 08 10:48
permalink #153 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Sun 7 Dec 08 10:48
Is Claus von Bulow still alive?
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Gary Greenberg, The Noble Lie
permalink #154 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Sun 7 Dec 08 10:48
permalink #154 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Sun 7 Dec 08 10:48
I mean that in the conventional sense.
wikipedia thinks he's alive and living in London.
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permalink #156 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Sun 7 Dec 08 12:15
permalink #156 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Sun 7 Dec 08 12:15
Weirdly, Sunny's first husband, a prince, also ended up in a lengthy coma after a car accident.
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Gary Greenberg, The Noble Lie
permalink #157 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 8 Dec 08 07:43
permalink #157 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 8 Dec 08 07:43
Gary, a group of scientists writing in Nature have created a brouhaha by suggesting that even healthy people be allowed to take stimulants like Ritalin and Adderal as "brain boosters" comparable to a cup of coffee or a good night's sleep. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/456702a.html "Human ingenuity has given us means of enhancing our brains through inventions such as written language, printing and the Internet. Most authors of this Commentary are teachers and strive to enhance the minds of their students, both by adding substantive information and by showing them new and better ways to process that information. And we are all aware of the abilities to enhance our brains with adequate exercise, nutrition and sleep. The drugs just reviewed, along with newer technologies such as brain stimulation and prosthetic brain chips, should be viewed in the same general category as education, good health habits, and information technology -- ways that our uniquely innovative species tries to improve itself." While obviously this has been going on since long before the first undergrad popped a white cross to pull an all-nighter, bringing this discussion out into the open makes some assumptions about health and disease discomfitingly clear, along the lines of your book.
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permalink #158 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 8 Dec 08 08:29
permalink #158 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 8 Dec 08 08:29
And more Greenbergiana in the news... a French doctor has raised a ruckus by claiming that he has found a "cure" for alcoholism -- a muscle relaxant called baclofen. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-wellbeing/health-news/has-t his-doctor-discovered-a-cure-for-alcoholism-1056645.html
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permalink #159 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Mon 8 Dec 08 09:06
permalink #159 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Mon 8 Dec 08 09:06
I'm really glad they wrote that article. But the fact that it is controversial to advance the idea that people can use drugs responsibly is highly annoying. Back in 1969 or so, a psychiatrist named Gerald Klerman, who was otherwise, as near as I can make out, a pretty undistinguished psychopharmacologist, always ready to shill for a drug company, came up with the term Pharmacological Calvinism, which he contrasted to psychotropic hedonism. (I am not sure why he picked Calvinism, since what it really is is Puritanism, Calvin's major contribution being the notion of predestination, and puritanism being the strain of Christianity that is fundamentally appalled at the body's capacity for pleasure, but whatever.) This question of whether we should use "smart drugs" is like the steroid debate in baseball. It's full of nostalgia for a time that never was, a prelapsarian condition in which we just function with what God gave us and are happy with that. The best way to counter this stupidity, to me, is to ask the question of whether or not it's okay to eat a diet that, in the case of baseball, increases availability of protein for muscle building, or in the case of cognitive activity increases overall health and alertness and lifespan. Or should we just go back to a hunter-gatherer diet, eat ourselves stupid and die before we can develop an opus? Even the side effects argument doesn't sway me. Of course amphetamines have side effects. But so does our protein-rich diet, and those side effects aren't just limited to our bodies. Consider what our reliance on animal protein does to the enconomy and the environment, not to mention to the animals. Jay Hughes, the guy who has written most cogently on enhancement technologies (a book called Citizen Cyborg, in which he forgoes these ontological/philosohpical arguments in favor of political and economic ones) calls this attitude "bioconservatism," and if you read the guys who advance it (the Nature article cites them--Leon Kass, Francis Fukuyama, et al.) you will see the parallels to the neocon movement. If you want to read more about what I think about this response to biotechnology, I suggest After Nature, an essay in Harper's. http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/03/0079963 Use gxgre as your login and harpers as your passcode, and I'll leave that combo up for a week.
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permalink #160 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Mon 8 Dec 08 09:08
permalink #160 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Mon 8 Dec 08 09:08
I'm gonna be on Angie Coiro's show on Green 960 (KQKE) tonight at 8 Pacific for an hour. I will try to be coherent, but that's way past my east coast bedtime. Don't know if it's a call-in, but if so, call away.
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permalink #161 of 207: bill braasch (bbraasch) Mon 8 Dec 08 09:22
permalink #161 of 207: bill braasch (bbraasch) Mon 8 Dec 08 09:22
excellent! chip some ritalin to beat that timezone fatigue.
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permalink #162 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 8 Dec 08 09:29
permalink #162 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 8 Dec 08 09:29
Great news. I'll be provigilant about listening. ;-)
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permalink #163 of 207: Andrew Alden (alden) Mon 8 Dec 08 10:15
permalink #163 of 207: Andrew Alden (alden) Mon 8 Dec 08 10:15
Coffee up!
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permalink #164 of 207: Angie (coiro) Mon 8 Dec 08 13:49
permalink #164 of 207: Angie (coiro) Mon 8 Dec 08 13:49
Heh! Yes, Gary, it's a call-in show. But we're only in our fourth show in a new slot. This time window has been occupied by pre-taped shows for so long the audience is only now catching on that they can really participate. Usually that's a downside, but there's so much to cover in your book I want you as much to myself as possible!
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permalink #165 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 8 Dec 08 14:53
permalink #165 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 8 Dec 08 14:53
Alas, after a meeting at work this morning, I will not be able to listen. But <coiro> is a fabulous interviewer, Gary is a wonderful subject, and I can't wait to hear the reports.
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permalink #166 of 207: Gail Williams (gail) Mon 8 Dec 08 15:12
permalink #166 of 207: Gail Williams (gail) Mon 8 Dec 08 15:12
Should be awesome!
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permalink #167 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Mon 8 Dec 08 15:32
permalink #167 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Mon 8 Dec 08 15:32
Yes, I'm looking forward to it. Unfortunately, I can't take any stimulants before, because I need to go to sleep right afterwards. When they make a time-sensitive version of Provigil, you know, where you can take a two-hour version or a twelve-hour version, I am so there.
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Gary Greenberg, The Noble Lie
permalink #168 of 207: Gail Williams (gail) Mon 8 Dec 08 16:58
permalink #168 of 207: Gail Williams (gail) Mon 8 Dec 08 16:58
My very best short term wake-me-up technique I discovered years ago driving across the Arizona desert in the summer at night, super tired but not wanting to have coffee. I stopped at a gas station convenience store, impulsively bought a jar of salsa from the chips and dips rack, and set it beside me on the passenger seat. Every time my eyes got heavy I'd have another big spoonful of the hot stuff, and I'd be wide awake again for another stretch of dark highway. Your milage may vary, as always. Best luck with the show!
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permalink #169 of 207: David Gans (tnf) Mon 8 Dec 08 17:05
permalink #169 of 207: David Gans (tnf) Mon 8 Dec 08 17:05
And the Angie Coiro Show is available after the fact for those who aren't able to listen online.
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permalink #170 of 207: Linda Castellani (castle) Mon 8 Dec 08 17:05
permalink #170 of 207: Linda Castellani (castle) Mon 8 Dec 08 17:05
Angie, tell folks how to tune in!
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Gary Greenberg, The Noble Lie
permalink #171 of 207: Linda Castellani (castle) Mon 8 Dec 08 17:06
permalink #171 of 207: Linda Castellani (castle) Mon 8 Dec 08 17:06
Assuming, that is, that's also streaming live.
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Gary Greenberg, The Noble Lie
permalink #172 of 207: David Gans (tnf) Mon 8 Dec 08 17:21
permalink #172 of 207: David Gans (tnf) Mon 8 Dec 08 17:21
Live AND archived: <http://www.green960.com/pages/tgs.html>
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permalink #173 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Tue 9 Dec 08 07:04
permalink #173 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Tue 9 Dec 08 07:04
A tragic story from the UK this morning, of a mother arrested for murdering her daughter who had been bedridden, paralyzed, mute, unable to eat, in pain, and requiring 24 hour care, for 17 years. Weirdly enough, the disease mentioned in the news stories is described as "myalgic encephalopathy, also known as ME or chronic fatigue syndrome." I've known people with chronic fatigue syndrome, and it certainly wasn't as devastating as this. This article goes on to quote the ME Association as saying that 250,000 people in the UK have it. Kay Gilderdale, the mother, said in 2006: She added that she felt her daughter was in limbo between life and death. "If someone dies, you mourn them, then you get to a stage where you know that person is gone and you move on. But Lynn is neither one nor the other. She is stuck in that room, not dead, but not alive properly." http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article5309918.ece
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permalink #174 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Tue 9 Dec 08 08:51
permalink #174 of 207: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Tue 9 Dec 08 08:51
Killing a hopelessly ill child is the problem that the movie I've Loved You For So Long pivots on. I had a good time on Angie's show last night. And she dropped your name and that of this conf. That was nice.
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permalink #175 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Tue 9 Dec 08 09:43
permalink #175 of 207: Steve Silberman (digaman) Tue 9 Dec 08 09:43
That's great.
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