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Peter Conners, Growing Up Dead
permalink #76 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sat 20 Jun 09 12:37
permalink #76 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sat 20 Jun 09 12:37
The Deadhead scene: a model for the formation of microculture: an economic/social example of (mostly) peaceful collectivism served as a harbor for the shamanistic fringe in a society without shamans a stellar example of mediascape, or dramatic immersion into a musicking scene connection with the primitive impulse, and the Nekyia as rite of passage an alternative to mass culture/privatization although mobile, a vibrant example of community formation a cure for the ontologically inevitable state of postmodern ennui a catalyst for consciousness revolution (toward a global consciousness) OR, escapist bullshit youthful folly self-indulgent drug scene example of all that is wrong with our over-indulgent and permissive American society. sex, drugs and rock'n'roll hedonism GUD, what has this world come to?
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permalink #77 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sat 20 Jun 09 12:38
permalink #77 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sat 20 Jun 09 12:38
slippage. Yes to what Xian said.
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permalink #78 of 127: what another day it takes: (oilers1972) Sat 20 Jun 09 13:35
permalink #78 of 127: what another day it takes: (oilers1972) Sat 20 Jun 09 13:35
<71>: Oh yeah. The first Dead album I bought was _Aoxomoxoa_ back in 1988, partly for that Rick Griffin masterpiece of a cover, partly because I had heard and read about what a trippy band this was supposed to be. I found the music therein to be pretty pedestrian at that time. By 1989 I was going to a university and living in a dorm that had a few Deadheads in it and they were fun people to hang out with. I could see by now that the band's music could be highly enjoyable to their fans, but it just hadn't caught on with me. One autumn evening a dormmate played a compilation that had the single version of "Born Cross-Eyed" on it and I was intrigued a bit, but still not really grabbed. Toward the end of that year I went out and bought the first album, _Anthem Of the Sun_, and _Live Dead_. I listened to those three albums and I thought they were good once I had tasted their music, but I had yet to digest it. Then, one day during winter break I was listening to Side 1 of _Live Dead_ for the fourth or fifth time, and I let myself go with the music. Then came the middle section where the band becomes quiet, and Garcia gently and softly begins trilling, with Constanten's organ setting a nebulous background, then Garcia arrives at one near-climax, then he begins again, Lesh and Weir along with him weaving circles into circles with mounting tension, intensity, and volume, Garcia's notes now insisting circular cascade into the silver-aqua force field where ice petals bloom long before they revolve, his notes now outer-Coltrane chords screaming joy approaching, galactic forces tearing loose from a wildly-blazing nebula close by, into what one might consider a black hole, but a benign one ultimately. After that, I listened to the rest of _Live Dead_ and it FINALLY clicked for me, especially the mad Scottish-polyrhythms of "The Eleven," the love-of-life cover of "Turn On Your Lovelight," and the post-galactic Feedback. Then the first album made sense, especially "Viola Lee Blues," and then I was ready for _Anthem..._. By the time I had completed the album's musique-concrete fall-all-over-yourself-over-and-over-again-and-come-up-smiling sound, I had a new favorite band. My aforementioned dormmate, at my request, taped that "Dark Star" plus _From the Mars Hotel_ and _Blues For Allah_ for me and that was it. Toward the end of the spring semester I got my first live tapes--November 1967 at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles and 12-28-69 at the Hollywood, FL Pop Festival, and I would never be the same again. Then two years later, I went to my only shows, all three May 1992 shows in Las Vegas.
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Peter Conners, Growing Up Dead
permalink #79 of 127: what another day it takes: (oilers1972) Sat 20 Jun 09 13:38
permalink #79 of 127: what another day it takes: (oilers1972) Sat 20 Jun 09 13:38
Oh yeah, after my cataclysmic _Live Dead_ experience, I finally enjoyed _Aoxomoxoa_. I enjoyed it even more when I found a used copy of the original (and far superior) 1969 mix.
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Peter Conners, Growing Up Dead
permalink #80 of 127: Barry Warren Polley (barryp) Sat 20 Jun 09 20:47
permalink #80 of 127: Barry Warren Polley (barryp) Sat 20 Jun 09 20:47
I think the question "Did it matter?" is important and am glad David asked it because thinking about that question been part of my meditation on the book. I can't answer for everyone but certainly can say that, for me, yes, it certainly did matter. A few ways: * Current pop music is a short-attention-span activity. That's not true with all of the world's music, with art music, or most of Western concert music... but it's certainly true of most music we are exposed to now on a daily basis. Live Dead showed me that it was possible to work on longer forms within pop music, not only by playing rock-hero guitar solos. Can you make "Around & Around" work in more than 3 minutes? What about "Tennessee Jed"? Yes, you can. I'm not the biggest Dennis Miller fan but always laugh at one of his jokes: "You know what my favourite Dead song is? THE SHORT ONE!" * Technically inept singers can be more expressive than their more technically competent counterparts. There are some Garcia ballads that still make me cry, and it's not because Bryn Terfel or Renee Fleming feared for their jobs. * The cult of the original artist, a recent conceit, needs to be questioned all the time. There was a time when (IMO) Bob Weir was a better live interpreter of Dylan than the writer himself. * Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Aversion to risk runs deep, in most people's social lives and certainly in corporate life and government acts. That's appropriate sometimes - I'd like my pilot to be risk averse and a slave to his/her checklist, thankyouverymuch - but in most cases it isn't. Master your basics then give it a go - you might cause a train wreck but you might open the doors to heaven for a few minutes too. For me, a bad show was when the band didn't try... a good show was when they improvised despite the occasional failure... a great show was when the crowd came along for the ride as the band drove to points unknown. I try to live my life that way and trace my attitude back to shows. * It's OK to get bombed once in awhile. The history of the human race is inextricable from our history self-intoxication - what is bread but a sorry substitute for beer? Sadly, this became too much a part of the scene, an excuse to get blotto and pretend the laws of the land just didn't exist. But the show was a fairly safe place if you over-indulged, and there are far too few such places left. The vile War on Some Drugs continues, at great cost, and I don't think it would make me so angry now without my tour memories. * I have waited my entire life for the uncertainty I feel about humanity (and my place in it) to become a little more certain. It never happened, despite "settling down" to a degree (mortgage payments, a dog, a non-DH wife, etc.) Being at a show always made that uncertainty OK for me. There are no more shows, but I try to remember that lesson. I don't think any of those lessons was profound (you might even say they were obvious and trite) but I owe my taking them to heart to live Dead.
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Peter Conners, Growing Up Dead
permalink #81 of 127: Sharon Lynne Fisher (slf) Sat 20 Jun 09 21:40
permalink #81 of 127: Sharon Lynne Fisher (slf) Sat 20 Jun 09 21:40
Robert Randolph puts on a hell of a show.
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Peter Conners, Growing Up Dead
permalink #82 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Sun 21 Jun 09 11:19
permalink #82 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Sun 21 Jun 09 11:19
Great post, Barry - thank you! And the rest of you, too - nice to see so much good stuff after being away for two days. Last night's David Nelson Band set went deeper than any of the Dead tour music I heard on CD. Sorry, kids, but that's how I feel. It may be that Nelson carries the storytelling aspect of the GD trip more strongly today than the Dead themselves without Jerry. Barry Sless, Mookie Siegel, John Molo, and Pete Sears! All those years Pete was more known for his keyboard playing than his bass playing - the man is amazing on bass. And another key factor in my judgment of this is that there's a new batch of Hunter lyrics in Nelson's - 7 on the new NRPS album and at least one more that didn't make that disc ("Fivio," which Nelson played on KPFA; you can hear it in GD Hour 1084, which airs the week of June 29). The DNB played "Where I Come From" last night. It's vintage Hunter, likely telling his own story as well as a couple of others at once.
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permalink #83 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Sun 21 Jun 09 11:33
permalink #83 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Sun 21 Jun 09 11:33
I have to register a bit of an objection to Scott MacFarlane imposing all that mytical mystical superstructure on the Grateful Dead concert. Joe Campbell went to one Grateful Dead show and pronouced it "the answer to the Atom Boms," and then delivered one of his standard presentations at a con- ference with Jerry Garcia, Mickey Hart, et al. It can just as easily be said that the second set structure of the latter-day Dead concert (which by the way was a step in the petrification process to fans like me who came up in the years when the structure was a good deal more random) was a purely musical matter, giving the aging players a chance to take another break in the middle of the set (to get high? quite likely, but that's a speculation we'll reserve for a different attempt at remote phycho- history). Making the second set (in most instances) a continuous musical flow with drums and then space made for a more concise presentation, requiring and allowing less unstructured exploration. All too often in those later years, the opening song of the second set was a step down a path whose contours were very well-known. The vast Jurassic sea of Grateful Dead music eventually dried up and left a diminished Mono Lake of concentrated, abbreviated exploration that rarely yielded ecstatic discovery. If you leave aside the philsophical projection/analysis, my sad and somewhat snarky explanation makes perfect sense on a human, professional-musician level. The truth, of course, lies somewhere in between. P.S. There was great wonderment in the discussion boards during the Dead's spring 2009 tour, seeing "second-set songs" in the first set. "Hell in a Bucket" thrown into the middle of the first set just like any other song - wonder of wonders!
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permalink #84 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Sun 21 Jun 09 12:03
permalink #84 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Sun 21 Jun 09 12:03
That post could use a rewrite and some additional information, but I'm on the road and don't have time to revise it. I'll come back later to inspect the damage.
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permalink #85 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sun 21 Jun 09 12:22
permalink #85 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sun 21 Jun 09 12:22
<a bit of an objection> I'm sincerely interested in hearing Peter's version of GUD and its larger relevance because I wasn't part of the caravaning Deadhead scene. I was a Seventies' Dead Head tapping into the vinyl far more than a live scene that only came my way in Seattle a few times from '75 to '80. That's the relevance of the Phases of the DeadPsychedelia, the Godchaux/songwriting era, the emerging Deadheads of the Mydland era, the Stadium/Touchhead scene. All very different chapters of the same book. The Deadhead scene didn't coalesce until the beginning of the '80s. My own immersion into the Dead scene pales in comparison to yours, David, so I never got to see the warts and moles and adult acne behind the proverbial veil. Putting words to those transcendent moments of the GD at their best ain't easy, but the ability of this band, (and the GDs' linkage to all the skullfucking hippie shit), is the reason why it matters to me now. Just trying to figure it out, trying to make sense of my own maze, and asking myself whether any of this retains relevance in any sense to the larger contemporary social dynamic. Steeped as the GD music is in the mythos of Americana, mythical archetypes simply allow us a language to describe this experience. The mystical sensations that the band could summon at its best was pretty fucking amazing in my book. FWIW.
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permalink #86 of 127: Peter Conners (peterconners) Sun 21 Jun 09 16:41
permalink #86 of 127: Peter Conners (peterconners) Sun 21 Jun 09 16:41
This whole discussion has had me thinking more about how/if/why the Dead scene could/should be transposed onto larger culture. Outside of some utopian revelries ("wouldn't it be cool if..."), I never looked at the scene as a blueprint, but as an alternative. Personally, I'm dubious about any system holding together on a mass scale and retaining the purities that made it appealing in the first place. If thats ever happened, I dont know about it. So when I think in terms of elements of the Deadhead scene contributing to society on a larger scale I think about it on the smallest scale. The individual. To me, thats the flashpoint of transformation. In fact, Ive always had a deep appreciation for Platos Theory of Forms, which basically says that the idea of something prior to material manifestation or even physical sensation is the purest form of reality. Since I bang my thumb with a hammer and scream, I think you need to take ideas into the material world, but I also agree that as soon as you put governing systems into play, those systems begin to deteriorate. Often, rapidly. When I addressed these issues in GUD, I kept them at the personal level, as was appropriate for the book. Personally, I carry the spirit of the scene alive through my writing and through sharing that writing with other people. Of course, at this point, Im incorporating a myriad of influences, as any artist needs to do to keep growing. But as Ive stated here previously, the doors to those influences got kicked open through the Dead scene. So when I think of how the Dead scene can contribute on a larger scale I think about all the individuals out there who have had their molecules rearranged at shows and through the music. I think about them out in the world, experimenting, pushing their own envelopes, showing up to their own lives day after day and chasing down their own muses (whether thats repairing an engine or teaching Environmental Ethics or cooking a killer burrito). Lets call it a critical mass of spirit. If you can keep that going on an individual level and share it when you can, youre likely to do more good than harm.
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permalink #87 of 127: what another day it takes: (oilers1972) Sun 21 Jun 09 17:06
permalink #87 of 127: what another day it takes: (oilers1972) Sun 21 Jun 09 17:06
<83>: You pretty much summed up my feelings on Grateful Dead music through the years, and why for me even a hot 1989-90 show (and there were several) just cannot hold a candle to the excitement of 1968, the baroque-into-country 1969 shows, the raging shows of 1970, or the songs-into-ever-deeper-space performances of 1972-74. It does seem that the band got tired of being out there on the edge without a roadmap back as time went on. Certainly, the demands of touring the U.S. three or four times a year took their toll, as did certain band members' lifestyle choices that came into play during the second half of the 1970s. Then also, Weir mentioned in a book of interviews with band members that starting about 1976-77, a conscious effort was made to tone down and reign in the extraterrestrial sonic explorations that reached their peak in 1972-74, as Weir in particular felt they were leaving their audience behind at times. It may be that they then discovered that by ossifying their sets to a greater extent than previous (and instituting the Drums, and later Space segments into the middle of the second sets), they would have more energy left over to deliver a dependable, if not mindblowing, remainder of that night's performance, and also have enough left over for the rest of the run in whatever city or town they were in. It was well and good that they could thereby cut down on the possibility of a horrible or boring performance and be counted on to give at least a decent show to their ticket-buyers. But by electing to do so, they also greatly cut down on the possibility of performing a show, or even just a moment of a show that was truly transportational and cataclysmic. And as we all know, there is little or no possiblity for great art without risk.
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permalink #88 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Sun 21 Jun 09 22:40
permalink #88 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Sun 21 Jun 09 22:40
I don't mean to deny anyone the vaildity of their experiences, of course. What I object to is the presumption of a certain level of intentionality that I don't think existed. The Grateful Dead came in through a very small window in time and space; they had company, but a lot of the other events and institutions have faded from the scene, and some also from memory. The Dead met so many different needs for so many different people, it's inevitable that they became a prescription for the world's ills to some of them.
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permalink #89 of 127: Steve Bjerklie (stevebj) Mon 22 Jun 09 03:51
permalink #89 of 127: Steve Bjerklie (stevebj) Mon 22 Jun 09 03:51
Full agreement here with David's #83, #88. Well-thought and well-put.
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permalink #90 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 09:35
permalink #90 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 09:35
From Julia Postel: > I would like to know if he found any of the fan communities in the lot - > did he get stickers at the shows? did he read Mikel or St Mikel? - if he > read any of the [GD fanzines] of the time and if so, what ones and why..... > that sort of thing... thanks for giving us the opportunity to participate > in the discussion!
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permalink #91 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 22 Jun 09 10:12
permalink #91 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 22 Jun 09 10:12
Yes well thought and well put and making me feel like I've been called out to clarify what I'm surprised that David doesn't get about what I say. However, I was also surprised when David said (a couple weeks ago in The Well) that the GD stopped being hippies about 1967. That floored me, too, because it represented to me a very narrow definition of the term "hippie." In any event, clarification is good, and these are simply honest differences in perspective. So, David, when you hosted a "Dark Star" marathon on the shortest day/night of the year on Sirius Satellite Radio, there was no Dionysian intentionality? When David Gans stands up as a Rubber Souldier and sings "into the light of the dark black night," he is in no way conjuring up the "very small window in time and space" of the late '60s that was also very Dionysian and very much contributed to a profound paradigm shift in consciousness in American society? The cauldron of change in "Advanced Western" culture from 1967-1972 was led by the youth, yet was significantly different than Peter's Deahead immersion of 1987-1992. One thing I've learned from his thoughtful posts is how his Deadhead idea of "alternative" referred to a subcultural scene, not the prospect of an "alternative" society. It's clear that Peter does not think that the Deadheads possessed the hippie's we-can-change-ourselves-and-thereby-change-the-world idealism that would help usher in an "alternative society". The caravanning Deadheads never had the critical mass for change promised (misleadingly, as it turned out) by the "Woodstock Nation." Still, my questions to Peter stem from a fascination about but what he thinks are the commonalities and disconnects between the original wave of hippies and his era of Deadheads, and what relevance this may or may not have in a larger contemporary cultural context. Some in the late '60s, like Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, the Weather Underground, and even Emett Grogan of the Diggers, operated with intentionality, with the idea that the shift of consciousness underway was a first step that would lead toward political revolution, and a more egalitarian society. I would never suggest that the Grateful Dead (or the Pranksters) ever operated with this sort of "blueprint" or "intentionality". I also don't believe the GD set out to create a Wagnerian-style, or Nietszche-esque audience Nekyia either. The Dionysianism of the Dead was mostly inadvertent and most definitely tied to that very small window of time that helped define them. Unintentionally, and without a net, the Grateful Dead most certainly tapped into something potent. I think that this vibrancy is what sustained interest in the band for thirty years, even when, road weary, they played at less than full potential. In other words, I do believe that the GD music discovered a creative edge where light meets dark, where their fans could gather and celebrate that magic. This was part of the consciousness shift that the band tapped into and which created the sort of allure that attracted paying customers for thirty years and more.
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permalink #92 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 10:39
permalink #92 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 10:39
> So, David, when you hosted a "Dark Star" marathon on the shortest day/night > of the year on Sirius Satellite Radio, there was no Dionysian inten- > tionality? Not that I know of. > When David Gans stands up as a Rubber Souldier and sings "into the light > of the dark black night," he is in no way conjuring up the "very small > window in time and space" of the late '60s that was also very Dionysian > and very much contributed to a profound paradigm shift in consciousness in > American society? No, he isn't. He is playing music that he loves. Again, I am not attempting to deny you your interpretation of these matters. But I am sure you will acknowledge that it's entirely possible that the people who made these things happen were not doing so with any great con- sciousness of the traditions and myths you invoke. Indeed, I think most genuine spiritual and cultural movements arise spontaneously from the random collisions of human beings and/or from the powerful impulses of visionaries. It's really hard to design these things; better they should just happen. More.
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permalink #93 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 10:51
permalink #93 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 10:51
> Some in the late '60s, like Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, the Weather Un- > derground, and even Emett Grogan of the Diggers, operated with inten- > tionality, with the idea that the shift of consciousness underway was a > first step that would lead toward political revolution, and a more > egalitarian society. Sure. But the Haight-Ashbury scene was a neighborhood cultural revolution that attracted a great deal of attention because it was so, well, attractive and the Beatles (et al.) had flooded the world with color and optimism. The Diggers didn't create it nor promote it; they attempted to SERVE the scene in accordance with their own cultural mission. Maybe we can say that the Dead attempted to change the world with guitars, Rubin & Hoffman with hammers, and the Diggers with soup ladles. The Dead DID want to change the world. I remember a conversation (not an interview) with Phil Lesh somewhere along the line in which he said that ex- plicitly, adding, "and if we had to dose a few people along the line, well..." But of course, it was Grace and Paul who wanted to dose the Nixons. But the idealism of the early days fell by the wayside as the realities of the world and the music business set in. When the Dead hit the road, their internal culture changed. Developing their music and earning a living were enough of a challenge without taking on the remaking of the world. They did - knowingly, I'm sure - provide this wonderful traveling petri dish in which lots of other folks were able to do their own culturalmutation ex- periments. > I would never suggest that the Grateful Dead (or the Pranksters) ever > operated with this sort of "blueprint" or "intentionality". Okay. I wasn't aiming that solely at you, of course, but I'm glad to see your clarification. > I also don't believe the GD set out to create a Wagnerian-style, or > Nietszche-esque audience Nekyia either. The Dionysianism of the Dead was > mostly inadvertent and most definitely tied to that very small window of > time that helped define them. Unintentionally, and without a net, the > Grateful Dead most certainly tapped into something potent. I think that > this vibrancy is what sustained interest in the band for thirty years, even > when, road weary, they played at less than full potential. > In other words, I do believe that the GD music discovered a creative edge > where light meets dark, where their fans could gather and celebrate that > magic. This was part of the consciousness shift that the band tapped into > and which created the sort of allure that attracted paying customers for > thirty years and more. In short, then, we have little or no disagreement.
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Peter Conners, Growing Up Dead
permalink #94 of 127: Peter Conners (peterconners) Mon 22 Jun 09 11:12
permalink #94 of 127: Peter Conners (peterconners) Mon 22 Jun 09 11:12
To step away from generalizations and into the specifics of when I was touring - no, the people I toured with (and, really, most I met on tour) weren't political in any overt way. There was some of that stuff there that you could uncover, but it was cause based (Tibet, Rainforest, etc.) rather than focused on changing the larger system. There was in no way a sense that going to a bunch of Dead shows was going to change the country. We were there for the music, the dance, the fun, the adventure, the travel, the good times... Again, it was an alternative, not a model for shaping the mainstream. That sort of mass idealism was long gone by the time I reached my teens. The closest I'd say the Dead scene came was by having general "rules of conduct" (for lack of a better term) to govern participants. But I'd classify it more in the way the shadow of supernatural authority governs a society. Basically, a karmic based system. Do right by the scene and you'll be covered with tickets, a place to crash, and general good things. And just like any supernatural governing system - the purpose is to preserve order. In this case, it's a way for Deadheads to police each other in order to preserve the survival of the community. Hi Julia - thanks for your question! I fondly remember getting the new Duprees Diamond News in the parking lot and taking it off to a corner to muse over and relax with. In fact, an old tour buddy told me he just found a big stack of them at his house. I'm jealous - may need to persuade him to send me a bunch of them. It was always fun to walk around and spot cool new shirts(so many creative folks with wonderful humor in their work), bumper stickers, jewelry, etc. At different times, I sold some of everything myself too: shirts, devil sticks, artwork, food and drinks, and other stuff. Of course, there was also lots of bartering. Given the choice, it was understood that trades were the best way to go. And if you could trade whatever you had for a ticket... pure gold.
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permalink #95 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 22 Jun 09 11:24
permalink #95 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 22 Jun 09 11:24
<culturalmutation> Perfect word at the core of this good discussion, David. slippage
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permalink #96 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 11:46
permalink #96 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 11:46
"culturalmutation" was a typo, meant to be two words. For the record.
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permalink #97 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 22 Jun 09 11:58
permalink #97 of 127: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 22 Jun 09 11:58
Not anymore it isn't. You've changed everything now!
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permalink #98 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 12:04
permalink #98 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 12:04
See? Intentionality had nothing to do with it! Happy accident!
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permalink #99 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 18:53
permalink #99 of 127: David Gans (tnf) Mon 22 Jun 09 18:53
Peter, what are you working on now?
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permalink #100 of 127: Infradibulated Gratility (ssol) Tue 23 Jun 09 05:40
permalink #100 of 127: Infradibulated Gratility (ssol) Tue 23 Jun 09 05:40
<99> Great question. <93> >Maybe we can say that the Dead attempted to change the world with guitars, Rubin & Hoffman with hammers, and the Diggers with soup ladles.< Very well put.
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