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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #51 of 80: . (wickett) Tue 7 Jun 11 16:15
permalink #51 of 80: . (wickett) Tue 7 Jun 11 16:15
While waiting for a medical appointment yesterday, my husband and I managed to leaf through two hundred pages of _Vogue_. There was *one* advert of a woman jumping with a ball; her dress was quite pretty, too, and she did *not* look as if in mid-orgasm. Everything else was appalling--glorifying trophy wives, sluts, waste, appearance, shopping as a life goal, male dominance, and passive female receptivity. We were exhausted and deeply discouraged after our foray.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #52 of 80: . (wickett) Tue 7 Jun 11 16:15
permalink #52 of 80: . (wickett) Tue 7 Jun 11 16:15
slip
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #53 of 80: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Tue 7 Jun 11 16:30
permalink #53 of 80: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Tue 7 Jun 11 16:30
(jfinch) and (wickett) slipped... Oh, what a wonderful book! I ducked in on Sunday to see your reply about how much you thought about your beginnings and endings. (The bubble at the end, mmmm!) What came to mind was Paul McCartney's concert closer when he came to the Greek Theatre. I think he does it frequently, but to me I'll always hear echoing off the Berkeley hills, "And in the end... the love you take... is equal to... the love... you make..." Went back to reading. You were in the midst of the IS expulsion. Gawd! Isn't it amazing. "Fewer than 300 people could afford to split in half? Here we go! We'd moved so many mountains; now we would divide a grain of sand. Ronald Reagan had won." And then you talk to your dad, "I told him I was about to get the boot from the IS and didn't know what to do next. 'You can come home you know,' he said. I love your dad! And later when you ask him what's wrong with the amendment to the gay group platform and he moves two commas inside the quotation marks. Can you tell us more about him? I had McCartney's echos in my head the rest of the book, and, being another deadhead in the room, also "without love in the dream it will never come true..." (Help on the Way) I know it's not as simple as that, but through your whole book there are two kinds of broken people - the ones who open to their own hearts and empathy, and the ones who stay stubbornly in their minds and abstractions. And late in the book you realize to your surprise that your drive is, among everything else you always thought it was, also a maternal drive. Do you want to talk more about that? What now, does love mean to you?
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #54 of 80: David Gans (tnf) Tue 7 Jun 11 17:01
permalink #54 of 80: David Gans (tnf) Tue 7 Jun 11 17:01
> there are two kinds of broken people - the ones who open to their own > hearts and empathy, and the ones who stay stubbornly in their minds and > abstractions.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #55 of 80: Jenny Finch (jfinch) Tue 7 Jun 11 19:19
permalink #55 of 80: Jenny Finch (jfinch) Tue 7 Jun 11 19:19
I forgot to also say that I love the Yeats poem in the beginning. "Tread softly because you tread on my dreams" reminds me to thank you for offering us this piece of you.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #56 of 80: Velma J. Bowen (wren) Tue 7 Jun 11 19:25
permalink #56 of 80: Velma J. Bowen (wren) Tue 7 Jun 11 19:25
Arriving very late (and somewhat plaster-covered, from reinstalling molding in my room)... I will run upstairs and get the book in a moment, but I was struck by the absolute truth of this paragraph of yours in the topic, Susie: > It's not a kiss, fuck, and tell, certainly. Sex is part > of the narrative's turning points. I would say it has > as much sex as you'd see in any random Updike novel, to > choose a well-known example. When men write sex in > literary fiction, it's just called novel, a memoir, > perhaps it's "frank" or "disturbing" or "realism." Most > likely, "BRILLIANT!" With women, one's sexual story is > diminutized or tarted up. When I was selling erotica, I *knew* that somewhere in every discussion of my writing, the question of "How much of this is based on your sex life?" (with the occasional leer or knowing look) would come up. I wonder if that will ever change. (And now, up to get the book.)
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #57 of 80: Velma J. Bowen (wren) Tue 7 Jun 11 19:33
permalink #57 of 80: Velma J. Bowen (wren) Tue 7 Jun 11 19:33
The chapters on ON OUR BACKS were particularly fascinating to me, because I remember the difficulty I had in finding it in stores in NYC in the 1980s, and the looks that one got from some of the staff in the one women's bookstore where I could get it regularly. Has anyone ever apologized to you for their treatment back then?
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #58 of 80: Searchlight Casting (jstrahl) Tue 7 Jun 11 21:13
permalink #58 of 80: Searchlight Casting (jstrahl) Tue 7 Jun 11 21:13
>Regarding backlash/rollback: I believe it's economically driven by the American class war we see unfolding, the Great Disappearance of the Middle Class, the end of thriving free press, the fetishization and narrowing of democracy at ever turn. Women's roles are constricted, it's back to double standard nightmares, the invisibility of nonconformists, the disenfranchisement of many to bolster the fortunes and voices of a very few. That's why this Trophy Wife shit is so out of control. BE a trophy wife or a porn star. I am not a happy camper about it. Egalitarianism is on the defensive right now.< Excellent commentary!! Do you see circumstances which may reverse this? I see global society increasingly being besieged in coming years by economic crisis, resources shortages (especially fossil fuels) and the consequences of ecocide, especially global climate destabilization. This triple crisis will certainly shake up the status quo. The Chinese word for crisis is a combo of two characters: the character for danger, and the one for opportunity. The period which shaped our own rebellion (i'm older than you by a few years, graduated high school in '65, but didn't rebel till after college, in '70) was also a period of crisis in US society, after all. History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #59 of 80: Peter Meuleners (pjm) Wed 8 Jun 11 08:54
permalink #59 of 80: Peter Meuleners (pjm) Wed 8 Jun 11 08:54
"the fetishization ... of democracy" That is brilliant. I will be reusing that a LOT. Thanks! Also, the story of the kid who feels included and the Mom sharing about her "friend" was interesting. Great discussion.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #60 of 80: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Wed 8 Jun 11 09:17
permalink #60 of 80: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Wed 8 Jun 11 09:17
>"the fetishization ... of democracy" Once the neighborhood group I was part of was in discussions with a big grocery chain over their proposed remodel (um, teardown and rebuild) of the local supermarket. We looked at the plan, which involved replacing two existing storefront small businesses with a blank wall at the sidewalk, half a block long. Chain representatives were adamant that the businesses had to be torn down to get the size building they needed for "modern efficiencies." So we said, "well, at least let's have windows along that wall. That much disconnect from the life of the street is just too much for our little business district." "Oh, no problem, that we can do!" they said. Next meeting they were back with a plan that included some rectangular openings of a glass-like material...opening into walled decorative spaces. Not windows, but the "appearance" of windows. They were delighted with themselves. "Those are not windows," we said. "Oh, but our business model wouldn't support REAL windows," they said. Too distracting to the customer experience.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #61 of 80: Searchlight Casting (jstrahl) Wed 8 Jun 11 09:38
permalink #61 of 80: Searchlight Casting (jstrahl) Wed 8 Jun 11 09:38
GREAT story, Keta!! Nowadays, they'd put up mega-screen TVs inside and make it look they are windows.:-)
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #62 of 80: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 8 Jun 11 13:37
permalink #62 of 80: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 8 Jun 11 13:37
That sure is. By the way, <jstrahl>, appreciated your mentioning ecocide as part of the ongoing context for all of this. The mythical part of it is scary as well as the realities.. that old "mother" of a planet that can be murdered at will... shudder. However, one of my annoying missions in life is to correct the old "danger-opportunity" fallacy that was made-up or not understood properly by some missionaries in China in the last century, and eventually took on a life of its own. So check this out, it's very informative about the Chinese understanding of a crisis as the moment of incipient danger: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/004343.html Sorry for the drift. It's a little obsession. Back to sex, capitalism and the life of Susie.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #63 of 80: Jeffrey G. Strahl (jstrahl) Wed 8 Jun 11 15:08
permalink #63 of 80: Jeffrey G. Strahl (jstrahl) Wed 8 Jun 11 15:08
Thanks, <gail>. Funny enough, a co-worker of mine who's Chinese (about 15 years ago) actually drew the character, she affirmed the "danger/opportunity," but her command of English wasn't super firm. So things got lost in translation in the other direction, i guess.:-)
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #64 of 80: Amy Keyishian (superamyk) Thu 9 Jun 11 10:03
permalink #64 of 80: Amy Keyishian (superamyk) Thu 9 Jun 11 10:03
oh gail i love you for that.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #65 of 80: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 9 Jun 11 10:19
permalink #65 of 80: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 9 Jun 11 10:19
yer welcome, super amy.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #66 of 80: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Thu 9 Jun 11 11:05
permalink #66 of 80: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Thu 9 Jun 11 11:05
The article by one of the linguists quoted is even more interesting...and I doubt our guest with two linguist parents will see it entirely as topic drift! http://www.pinyin.info/chinese/crisis.html I've been thinking about the questions Susie raises in the book, and we've talked about some here, the WHY? of ferocious hostility, especially from the "young acolytes" of public figures who oppose. I wonder if the need to belong, the passion to belong is stronger than anything else for some. I also heard somewhere once (I think it was attributed to Jung, but not sure), that all humans are 90% similar and it's only 10% of your personality, physiology, whatever that makes for the differences, the individuality. In a culture that so vglorifies individuality, I suspect that's deeply terrifying. Sex, sexual honesty, is one of the places that lifts the veil, where the commonality is unmistakable, if you dare/care to see it. Or so I suspect.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #67 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:17
permalink #67 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:17
I'm glad you're curious about my dad, or missing him, as I know many of you were acquainted with him by his work, or in person! Here's his web site: http://www.ncidc.org/bright/ And, as he loved all these language legends, that you're discussing with the Chinese "crisis" material, you might like to see his analysis of the "squaw" debate http://susiebright.blogs.com/susie_brights_journal_/2011/06/the-sociolinguisti cs-of-the-s-word-squaw-in-american-placenames.html His own web site is very academic, but if you want to hear our rollicking interview on my AUdible show, it's so fun... he sang and told the best stories: http://susiebright.blogs.com/susie_brights_journal_/2006/10/ive_had_fascina.ht ml
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #68 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:24
permalink #68 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:24
"How do you see the current state of women's activism?" Deplorable. How's that for a cranky answer? I've said multiple times on this book tour, if the elite of the women's movement hadn't kicked out and slandered everyone who wasn't part of their inner circle for various "sex crimes" and such, we would have a far different grass roots movement who would be equipped to deal with the massive anti-abortion backlash, a la South Dakota. Instead, the "Ms. Magazine set" have no one to fall back on, to plead with, except their tiny audience in the Democratic Party cocktail circuit, and we all know how well that's worked out for the disposssesed. Frankly, they don't care all that much, they made their bed. Their legacy and money is secure. They threw everyone out who didn't match their class, educational, nepotistic requirements, and much of that was masked as the sex wars. What we're looking at is the flotsam of a turf war, which is tragic. Of course you have individual women and small groups doing inspiring things. I'd include myself on that list. But in terms of our effect as a mass movement, there's no there there. Virtually every 60s and 70s civil rights movement is in similar straits. Did you see that obnoxious press release from the bigtime gay lobby group that hailed the merger of AT&T and something? Jesus Christ. What a fucking corpse.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #69 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:28
permalink #69 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:28
"How has technology changed what you put out and how you work? Have you seen a change in readers?" Of course, god, that's a book in itself. Creatively, it's been 100% awesome, because of the control and access I have to my audience although I have to deal with anti-gay, anti-feminist crap like "NSFW" and other unlegislated tropes of Internet censure. But, whatever! That's not what I think about when I sit down to blog. Financially, it's been the crisis you heard about. at first, I didn't mind the Internet was "free" because my big publishers subsidized all my counter-culture activities. But then the balance shifted, and it's shifting again. I've lived thru the most bizarre time in publishing. Most recently, I retained the e-rights to my memoir,and so I published it, my own edition on Kindle and Book and epub, etc. I love that! Same with my audio edition, it was a total delight to produce it, and such a different experience that reading the printed word.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #70 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:34
permalink #70 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:34
"Late in [your memoir] you realize to your surprise that your drive is, among everything else you always thought it was, also a maternal drive. Do you want to talk more about that? What now, does love mean to you?" I feel like I have to reply to that in song and lyric, not another story! Hopefully, I conveyed in my memoir, on a poetic level, where I'm at with love and endurance. I still don't think of myself as obviously maternal I don't automatically or easily connect with babies and children; I'm picky. My patience is thin, always bad for mommies. My daughter was always having to explain to her friends that I was strict, regardless of whatever they'd heard about my sexual politics. If Lucy Van Pelt was a sex positive feminist, that might be me. The "Doctor" is In! But as far as Peanuts analogies go, I am very much "Linus" in terms of carrying around my blankie and wanting to see the best in the world come to pass, sincerity and generousity mean everything to me.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #71 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:38
permalink #71 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:38
"The chapters on ON OUR BACKS were particularly fascinating to me, because I remember the difficulty I had in finding it in stores in NYC in the 1980s, and the looks that one got from some of the staff in the one women's bookstore where I could get it regularly. Has anyone ever apologized to you for their treatment back then?" Wow, you're tempting me to write my "scorched earth" sequel. I have only rec'd one apology, from Neal Coonerty at Bookshop Santa Cruz, back in the early nineties, and it brought tears to my eyes. Of course he isn't a woman, or a lesbian who was in the fray of it all. I have heard many vague "regrets" and "explanations" and people sort of shuffling their feet and looking at the ground. And gossip about how, "you know that bookstore manager who declared an anti-porn, antikink jihad on you guys? She ended up running a dungeon and being a total bottom in downtown Oakland, blah blah blah" Other people who used to run women's bookstores explain that their whole store came to pieces over this issue, the split. And because they weren't selling the new things their audience might want (because it was BAD!) their sales went to shit as well.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #72 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:43
permalink #72 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:43
"the WHY? of ferocious hostility, especially from the "young acolytes" of public figures who opposed you....I wonder if the need to belong, the passion to belong is stronger than anything else for some." I return again and again to a book-turned-film called "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie," by Muriel Sparks. you can see great clips of it on YOuTube, but the whole thing is worth it. Whenever I see Maggie Smith in that role, it's like I'm seeing Katherine MacKinnon on stage. It's abotu this unorthodox, highly charismatic teacher, during WWII in an elite girls school. She froths up her gullible students to go support Mussolini, because of her deranged ideas about art and beauty,with tragic results. It's all a load of crap that even she doesn't truly believe, it's just her schtick, her stage act. She's as sexual and vulnerable as anyone, and her cognitive dissonance is impermeable, until a very angry little girl, who's quite clever, figures out how to undo her. I would have given anything to interview Muriel about that story, about the "sisterly cannibalization," and ask her why she wrote it. Do any of you have any insights?
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #73 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:45
permalink #73 of 80: Susie Bright (sueb) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:45
">Egalitarianism is on the defensive right now."< -- Excellent commentary!! Do you see circumstances which may reverse this?" I'm a great believe in catastrophes, revolutions, and unexpected grace. I certainly don't think the status quo yields anything.
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #74 of 80: Searchlight Casting (jstrahl) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:46
permalink #74 of 80: Searchlight Casting (jstrahl) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:46
>"How do you see the current state of women's activism?" Deplorable. How's that for a cranky answer? I've said multiple times on this book tour, if the elite of the women's movement hadn't kicked out and slandered everyone who wasn't part of their inner circle for various "sex crimes" and such, we would have a far different grass roots movement who would be equipped to deal with the massive anti-abortion backlash, a la South Dakota. Instead, the "Ms. Magazine set" have no one to fall back on, to plead with, except their tiny audience in the Democratic Party cocktail circuit, and we all know how well that's worked out for the disposssesed. Frankly, they don't care all that much, they made their bed. Their legacy and money is secure. They threw everyone out who didn't match their class, educational, nepotistic requirements, and much of that was masked as the sex wars. What we're looking at is the flotsam of a turf war, which is tragic. Of course you have individual women and small groups doing inspiring things. I'd include myself on that list. But in terms of our effect as a mass movement, there's no there there. Virtually every 60s and 70s civil rights movement is in similar straits. Did you see that obnoxious press release from the bigtime gay lobby group that hailed the merger of AT&T and something? Jesus Christ. What a fucking corpse.< Wow, that made me happy! I know, it's terrible stuff, that which you write about, but i'm glad someone considered a "luminary" of the women's movement isn't shy about calling it the way it is!!
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Susie Bright, "Big Sex, Little Death"
permalink #75 of 80: Searchlight Casting (jstrahl) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:54
permalink #75 of 80: Searchlight Casting (jstrahl) Thu 9 Jun 11 12:54
. ">Egalitarianism is on the defensive right now."< -- Excellent commentary!! Do you see circumstances which may reverse this?" I'm a great believe in catastrophes, revolutions, and unexpected grace. I certainly don't think the status quo yields anything., YEAH!!! This is indeed as i said how "we" (the Sixties movement) emerged. >I would have given anything to interview Muriel about that story, about the "sisterly cannibalization," and ask her why she wrote it. Do any of you have any insights?< I'm of course guessing, but perhaps this is a commentary about artists who mistake the world for their private canvass, oblivious to real-world consequences. Sort of reminds me of an art-inclined woman acquaintance (housemate of a friend) who while sitting next to me at a Dead show, as i was visiting with the "fun guys," told me how she was about the only person in the Haight back in the day who was pro Vietnam war, because she was all into reincarnation, and viewed war as a great way to release lots of souls into the cycle.
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