inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #126 of 173: Tiffany Lee Brown (T) (magdalen) Fri 14 Feb 20 09:29
permalink #126 of 173: Tiffany Lee Brown (T) (magdalen) Fri 14 Feb 20 09:29
just wanted to thank you for addressing my post, oemmasue.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #127 of 173: David Albert (aslan) Fri 14 Feb 20 10:19
permalink #127 of 173: David Albert (aslan) Fri 14 Feb 20 10:19
> some people choose more than one I saw one person's pronouns listed somewhere as (may have the order wrong) "she/his/their" and wasn't sure if that was specific, as in one should specifically use *she* in the subjective, *his* in the objective, and *their* in the possessive, or if it meant the person uses all three sets at once. Or if it meant something else entirely, as with Jacob in the article who uses the various sets at various times based on how they (?) are presenting that day. I can imagine how one might present as male or female (although given that gender presentation is not the same as gender identity, it seems a stretch to expect all but one's close friends to be aware of this connection) but I'm not sure how one would clearly present as "they" to a non-close-friend.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #128 of 173: Alan Fletcher (af) Fri 14 Feb 20 12:36
permalink #128 of 173: Alan Fletcher (af) Fri 14 Feb 20 12:36
If I were to choose ungendered pronouns I think I'd use (gendered as a reference) He .. One : One did it Him .. One ; Give it to one. His .. One's : That is one's hat At least its clearly singular.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #129 of 173: emma pseud (oemmasue) Sat 15 Feb 20 15:54
permalink #129 of 173: emma pseud (oemmasue) Sat 15 Feb 20 15:54
<aslan> if someone lists more than one pronoun, like the she/his/their example you gave, its likely that the individual has a fluid gender identity and either a. is someone whos preference in regards to pronouns changes based on their feelings about their gender or b. someone who doesnt have a preference aside from preferring not to be boxed in to a single pronoun
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #130 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Sun 16 Feb 20 07:13
permalink #130 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Sun 16 Feb 20 07:13
That's the case for me. When I'm feeling particularly fluid, I put all three. I know it'll be hit or miss across the day. Emma, if you think it will bring them joy, please feel free to tell everyone at Haus of QUOTA about that comparison. If ever I'm in Florida, I'd love to meet the lot of you. When members of the majority use their pronouns, it becomes just a little bit safer, a little bit easier to be more courageous and open, and significantly more "It's okay here" for members of the minority to share their pronouns. It turns sharing pronouns into common practice. Sharing becomes part of the culture, as against one choosing to be a freak. Etsy sells enamelled pins: My pronouns are.... I wear a "They/Them" pin. Students scan all of the pins on my in-class hoodie: a Ziggy Stardust cat, a vintage library circulation card with the Pride Flag (including brown and black), They/Them, the crisis line's "This person saves lives" arrow... There's a Game of Thrones styled "Mother of Cats", soon to be balanced by a "Cat Dad" pin. It's possible to see children absorbing all of this. Sometimes, they ask questions. Sometimes, the implicit permission visibly eases them; the shoulders drop, some tension seeps from their muscles. Last week, during a relatively private time during in-class art-making, a student vaguely probed the subject of "they" as it applied to me. After I answered, the child said, "I think I'm like that. Both boy and girl." She broke into the most relaxed grin I'd seen her wear. "That's fine," I said. She said, "I'm more girl than boy, though." I told her that was okay. Whatever she was, it was absolutely all right. She flashed another smile, and went back to her work. A big thing? A small thing? Who can know? Last year, after five weeks of "My friends aren't speaking to me" comments during our opening circle*, a fourth grade student said, "My friends are cutting** me because I like girls." We were working on twisted fairy tales. That afternoon, my bundle of self-absorbed fourth- and fifth-graders gave a traditional tale a trans protagonist. It was the greatest show of support I had seen in geological eras. Would the fourth-grade student have come out, had I not been easy and open with my gender? Would the second-grade student have said, "I am both boy and girl?" I don't go on about gender and sexuality. It's "I'm not Mr Seanan or Ms Seanan; I don't identify as male or female. 'Mx' is hard to say. Just call me 'Seanan'. I'm not big on status, anyway." Implicit permission is more powerful than we generally think.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #131 of 173: Lisa Poskanzer (lrph) Sun 16 Feb 20 07:39
permalink #131 of 173: Lisa Poskanzer (lrph) Sun 16 Feb 20 07:39
You're providing a safe place. You're showing them how they might grow happily and successfully into the adult world. This is huge. And more huge than what you've done for the two students you mention, is what you've done for their classmates. Normalizing their differences in a public place educates all children to be more aware and understanding.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #132 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Sun 16 Feb 20 15:14
permalink #132 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Sun 16 Feb 20 15:14
Thank you, Lisa. Your words mean worlds to me. This is something I repeatedly fail in explaining to straight white et cetera corporate/office/teaching-is-a-theory/bubble-dwelling people: I do not come out as disabled, gender-queer, or anything else for my comfort. I'm already comfortable. I do it so the students can be around someone who is publicly, openly easy with being several shapes of Other.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #133 of 173: Seanan (seanan) Sun 16 Feb 20 15:32
permalink #133 of 173: Seanan (seanan) Sun 16 Feb 20 15:32
<scribbled by seanan Sun 16 Feb 20 15:35>
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #134 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Sun 16 Feb 20 15:42
permalink #134 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Sun 16 Feb 20 15:42
South Dakota's lawmakers voted to pass a bill that would fine and jail doctors who prescribed hormones and puberty blockers for trans teens under sixteen years of age. The bill went to the Senate, where it died a belated and deserved death. Being an LGBTQ ally can put you in lawmakers' sights. Some of us (raising my hand) live in bubbles. All of us live in dangerous times. If we can do anything to make someone feel even the slightest bit safer, then it seems only decent to do so. I tend to have a tough time learning names. Pronouns are easier. https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-trans-bill-killed-in-south-dakota-senate-co mmitee-vote
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #135 of 173: shannon (vsclyne) Sun 16 Feb 20 20:41
permalink #135 of 173: shannon (vsclyne) Sun 16 Feb 20 20:41
>If we can do anything to make someone feel even the slightest bit safer, then it seems only decent to do so.< Yes.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #136 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Mon 17 Feb 20 06:49
permalink #136 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Mon 17 Feb 20 06:49
So many of the world's troubles stem from fear manifesting as a lack of acceptance, which is used to justify/rationalise often barbaric behavior. Using pronouns signals acceptance.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #137 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Mon 17 Feb 20 07:00
permalink #137 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Mon 17 Feb 20 07:00
Even in freer circles, there are problems. Two days ago, one of my friends snapped, "I don't believe in this cis business and all of that. We're all one." As she was already on an edge of irritation, and she was/is hosting me for two weeks, I did not point out that "not believing" was a privilege she had as a straight white-presenting cis-female. My thoughts go to public places, public conversations, and how a person who was in a fragile place -- in crisis, in a stage/state of questioning, coping with self-doubts, part of an über-straight normative family/faith, or any number of other factors -- might feel, overhearing her statement aboard a bus or on a street corner. Casual words, overheard, and there you are, shut out again, denied reality. Shifting to another facet, it is good to see pronouns being more widely discussed, from Oprah Magazine on how to share gender pronouns at work, and why it's a courtesy to do so https://www.oprahmag.com/life/work-money/a27921531/how-to-share-gender-pronoun s-workplace/ to Quartz at Work on why it is more than a trend https://qz.com/work/1647596/gender-pronouns-in-the-workplace-are-not-a-passing -trend/ to the Human Rights Campaign's downloadable guide https://qz.com/work/1647596/gender-pronouns-in-the-workplace-are-not-a-passing -trend/ to the Washington Post's piece on how various firms are navigating the unfamiliar ocean of "a gender-free world" https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/07/02/how-employers-are-preparing -gender-non-binary-world/ but -- and this has nothing to do with the lines about my friend; it is a separate stream of thought -- I wonder how we can bring the conversation beyond the bubbles (relatively liberal media, gender-queer communities, allies and would-be allies trying to understand, the friends and families of LGBTQ people... without triggering rages or shutdowns. The world is so very divided, and it is all too easy to imagine Matthew Shepard as a current headline. This, without raising the demon heads of intersectionality, where many of us (I among them) live.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #138 of 173: Lisa Poskanzer (lrph) Mon 17 Feb 20 14:56
permalink #138 of 173: Lisa Poskanzer (lrph) Mon 17 Feb 20 14:56
Yes. It is a privilege to get to decide whether to take up the battle of gender inequity, when people have to live with the inequity and injustice every day. And today, the Media Specialists from Palm Beach County, FL (the 11th largest school district in the country, and the home school district of the President) all were talking about gender inequity and making our libraries safe places to explore ourselves and the people we share the planet with. Compassion through literature. Knowledge through research and study, then understanding.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #139 of 173: emma pseud (oemmasue) Tue 18 Feb 20 13:11
permalink #139 of 173: emma pseud (oemmasue) Tue 18 Feb 20 13:11
<South Dakota's lawmakers voted to pass a bill that would fine and jail doctors who prescribed hormones and puberty blockers for trans teens under sixteen years of age. The bill went to the Senate, where it died a belated and deserved death.> MANY states are proposing bills like this. One that was brought up in the Florida House was also killed, but more like it are being introduced. https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/01/20/lawmakers-us-unleash-barrage-anti-transgen der-bills Cis allies: if your state starts pushing bills like this, call your state representatives and fight to kill the bill. If your state/county doesn't have protections (for work/housing/etc) for trans people, see which organizations are working to fight for those legal protections and throw your support behind them (especially if you have the means to contribute financially). Another great way to support trans people, while we're on the topic: just send them money! I won't get into the economic theory behind fighting poverty simply by putting cash directly into poor people's hands, I'll just say that if you see a GoFundMe or a link to a trans person's Venmo/CashApp/PayPal, send what you can! My news feed is full of people (mostly black, trans people) seeking financial assistance. Black trans people are some of the most marginalized people in our society, their freedom is our freedom. (RayeRaye's Venmo is @SugarBearrr and Naithe's is @ayyonao, if you wanna send some help their way, they always need assistance with bills, and since they open their home to so many of us in my community, we do what we can to help them stay in that home. You're obviously not required to do this, and I'm by no means implying that if you aren't in a position to send trans folx money you're a bad ally- but if you've got the means, this is a way to can use your own privileges to help someone else)
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #140 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Tue 18 Feb 20 17:26
permalink #140 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Tue 18 Feb 20 17:26
I'll add to this that, if you can't afford to send money, sharing a link is an active form of support. By extending someone's reach, you take a public stance as an ally, open conversations, offer emotional support to the person in need, and give trans people the chance to receive funds from people they don't know and could not otherwise reach.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #141 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Tue 18 Feb 20 17:39
permalink #141 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Tue 18 Feb 20 17:39
On the subject of trans folx, particularly Black trans folx, here are some sobering links. The National LBGTQ Task Force on the "startling levels of discrimination against Black transgender people https://www.thetaskforce.org/new-analysis-shows-startling-levels-of-discrimina tion-against-black-transgender-people/ US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health Homicide Rates of Transgender Individuals in the United States: 20102014 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5551594/ CDC HIV and Transgender People 2009 - 2014 https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/transgender/index.html NIH Data Sources Hinder Our Understanding of Transgender Murders https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5551619/ Human Rights Campaign Violence Against the Transgender Community in 2019 https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-20 19 Annual Report on Epidemic of Ant-Transgender Violence https://www.hrc.org/blog/hrc-releases-annual-report-on-epidemic-of-anti-transg ender-violence-2019 NPR: Health Care System Fails Many Transgender Americans "Dozens of trans people have been violently killed just this year across the country. Another tragic public health issue: Almost 20 percent of black transgender women are HIV-positive, compared with only 3 percent in the general population." "The U.S. Transgender Survey found that 40 percent of transgender people have attempted suicide in their lifetimes." https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/11/21/564817975/health-care-sys tem-fails-many-transgender-americans For people who face murderous discrimination, every active ally matters. It's far lower risk to stand up for and with a Black trans person than to _be_ one. Until that changes, the rest of us have to do more to keep the endangered people safe and make sure that nobody we're aware of is -- or feels -- isolated.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #142 of 173: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Tue 18 Feb 20 19:04
permalink #142 of 173: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Tue 18 Feb 20 19:04
Thank you both for all of the information. I'll definitely pass it along, and help where I can.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #143 of 173: Lisa Poskanzer (lrph) Wed 19 Feb 20 03:21
permalink #143 of 173: Lisa Poskanzer (lrph) Wed 19 Feb 20 03:21
Thank you <oemmasue> and <seanan> for leading this discussion and giving us all something to think about and ways to help.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #144 of 173: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Wed 19 Feb 20 07:42
permalink #144 of 173: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Wed 19 Feb 20 07:42
Hey this was in todays NYTimes: The push for personal pronouns like they/them and ze/hir can ignite a power struggle in college classrooms. The Kennedy School of Governments solution? Stickers. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/19/us/gender-pronouns-college.html
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #145 of 173: David Albert (aslan) Wed 19 Feb 20 16:51
permalink #145 of 173: David Albert (aslan) Wed 19 Feb 20 16:51
In the meantime, the following story out of Ohio: https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/judge-dismisses-professor-s-lawsuit-ov er-transgender-pronoun-dispute-n1137976 Short form: a professor sued his college for "compelling" him to use They/Them pronouns in violation of his religious beliefs. His lawsuit has been dismissed, with the judge agreeing with the school that "such language was part of his job responsibilities, not speech protected by the First Amendment."
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #146 of 173: David Albert (aslan) Wed 19 Feb 20 16:52
permalink #146 of 173: David Albert (aslan) Wed 19 Feb 20 16:52
(Actually I don't know what the student's preferred pronouns were. No pronouns were used in the article to refer to the student.)
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #147 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Wed 19 Feb 20 20:26
permalink #147 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Wed 19 Feb 20 20:26
Neat editing. Thank you, Emma, for bringing wisdom, compassion, knowledge, and energy to the conversation -- and thank you, Lisa, for hosting it. I'm grateful to everyone who showed up here, engaged, and participated. That's what's going to make us strong, aware, and able to grow. This is a conversation that deserves to continue. I hope we can all find spaces, online and in daily life.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #148 of 173: Lisa Poskanzer (lrph) Thu 20 Feb 20 14:19
permalink #148 of 173: Lisa Poskanzer (lrph) Thu 20 Feb 20 14:19
Today I read the book, "Julian Wants to be a Mermaid," to my special education class. One boy insisted on correcting me that Julian wanted to be a merman. I said, "Actually, he doesn't want to be a merman. The book says mermaid. And look, all the pictures show mermaids. He wants to be a mermaid, not a merman." The boy looked very confused. His aide supported me and the book, "Some boys want to be mermaids. Some boys want to be mermen. Some boys don't want to be either." I wanted to kiss her.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #149 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Thu 20 Feb 20 17:39
permalink #149 of 173: Seánan (seanan) Thu 20 Feb 20 17:39
I've never met her, and she's made more than my day. Today, in a small group (three or four people per group) activity during a professional development, each of us was invited to choose a symbol for a piece of choreography and to contribute one movement to our group's piece. I was in a group of straight or straight-presenting cis women. Every time I tried to speak, a member of the group interrupted me and stated talking. After four tries, I reminded people that I was on the autism spectrum, explained that four over-speakings was my limit, that I could not continue, and that I had to leave the group and, for a while, the room. Two women told me I had to stay. The third, the youngest, finally said, "What can we do to support you?" I said, "Let me go take care of myself." A moment after I left, the door opened. Another gender-queer person on the spectrum walked out, looked at me, and said, "You, too?" Later, when the class gathered in a circle, to speak about their experiences, one of the older women in my group said she'd been uncomfortable. That was not enough for her. A few rounds later, she went on to say, "My feelings were hurt. Seanan misunderstood me. I guess I owe her an apology." The workshop leader -- a manager -- thanked her for sharing. (Oh, so brave.) Later, another older member of the group told me that I had deprived them of my contribution. They silenced me four times, and then put the responsibility for my silencing on me. The one person who'd asked what I needed came over and said, "I'm so sorry." The one person who had not perpetrated one or more acts of violence was the one who apologised. My fellow (closeted in this segment of society) autistic (closeted et cetera) gender-queer person was seething at the compound harm of the public apology that was actually the apologiser displaying the harm I had done her, the outing of me by name as the person who had made the poor woman uncomfortable, and -- perhaps worst of all -- the blithe public misgendering. Intersectionality is everywhere. The self-congratulatory (teaching artists: so kind and understanding to disabled/LGBTQ/POC children, and therefore innately so the same to POC/LTBTQ/disabled adults... and unquestioningly certain that they are benefactors and allies) are particularly dangerous. Here's to the aide and those who stand up on behalf of whomever and, with kindliness, tolerance, and patience, explain.
inkwell.vue.509
:
They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
permalink #150 of 173: Robin Thomas (robin) Thu 20 Feb 20 23:53
permalink #150 of 173: Robin Thomas (robin) Thu 20 Feb 20 23:53
We have so much to learn.
Members: Enter the conference to participate. All posts made in this conference are world-readable.