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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #26 of 75: Kathy Whilden (wildini-k) Wed 24 Apr 24 09:39
permalink #26 of 75: Kathy Whilden (wildini-k) Wed 24 Apr 24 09:39
In March I started chemo therapy where the chemo is injected right into the bladder. The first one I had to stop the procedure after 10 minutes. I had insisted that the nurse could stop the procedure when I asked without having to get the doctor's approval which always takes a long Time. It turns out that I am one of the twenty percent of patients who have bladder spasms when a catheter is clamped shut during treatment. I met with the oncologist and explained about clamping and cramps. He said he could give me pain medication. I asked if I could have the catheter removed during the two hour treatment. He said he would ask the infusion center director but he thought they would not agree to a change in the protocal.I said I lived alone and am a fall risk with these pain medications. The next morning he called me and excitedly told me that they would change the protocol for me. So the next 5 treatments worked. The nurse said they are now using this new protocol for bladder spasm patients.
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #27 of 75: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Wed 24 Apr 24 09:49
permalink #27 of 75: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Wed 24 Apr 24 09:49
So that's the second time you have spoken up and changed the system to benefit the patients who come after you. Congratulations
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #28 of 75: Nancy White (choco) Wed 24 Apr 24 09:59
permalink #28 of 75: Nancy White (choco) Wed 24 Apr 24 09:59
Amazing, Kathy! You are AMAZING!
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #29 of 75: Plutopian (jonl) Wed 24 Apr 24 10:32
permalink #29 of 75: Plutopian (jonl) Wed 24 Apr 24 10:32
That's great, Kathy! In Susannah's terms, I think you're a seeker who became a solver!
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #30 of 75: Susannah Fox (sus4nnah) Wed 24 Apr 24 10:37
permalink #30 of 75: Susannah Fox (sus4nnah) Wed 24 Apr 24 10:37
Nancy, using FB isn't lazy. It's fishing where the fish are. But do stay on guard about bots and outside/commercial entities coming into private groups. That's real. See: How a patient advocate discovered a massive security problem with closed groups on Facebook, and became a white hat hacker. https://lightcollective.org/2018/07/04/how-a-patient-advocate-discovered-a-mas sive-security-problem-with-closed-groups-on-facebook-and-became-a-white-hat-ha cker/ Kathy, thank you for all the work you do on behalf of other patients who may not know they can speak up! I hope someone captures the lessons and protocol changes so that they can spread further than that one practice. Peer patients and survivors can do this work in community. Another model is a Learning Health Network, which in the best cases incorporates insights from people with lived experience AND the clinicians AND the scientists involved in care & research. See: https://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/research/divisions/j/anderson-center/learn ing-networks And: https://www.hivenetworks.com/lhsnm
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #31 of 75: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 24 Apr 24 11:27
permalink #31 of 75: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 24 Apr 24 11:27
Kathy, it's great that your caregivers listened to you and even greater that they changed your protocol to suit patients' needs. It's sad that we see this as unusual. Medicine ought to work this way.
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #32 of 75: Kathy Whilden (wildini-k) Wed 24 Apr 24 11:54
permalink #32 of 75: Kathy Whilden (wildini-k) Wed 24 Apr 24 11:54
I have a PCP who I see every 3 months just so I can get encouragement. He reminds me I am a strong 83 year old woman and that I am in charge of making medical decisions and I should also listen to the cancer doctors. In the beginning I had to make up reasons to keep seeing him but now he understands that he is my support doctor. I do keep a blog both here in the life topic, on facebook and on blogspot. I want to be visible.
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #33 of 75: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 24 Apr 24 12:53
permalink #33 of 75: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 24 Apr 24 12:53
Thank you for telling your story. I'm paying attention, because I might be on the same path at some time.
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #34 of 75: Nancy White (choco) Wed 24 Apr 24 16:00
permalink #34 of 75: Nancy White (choco) Wed 24 Apr 24 16:00
Having a PCP that cares about this stuff is CRITICAL (I just switched because all my old one said was "gee, I'm sorry you have to go through all this! But sorry, I have no time to see you for the next six weeks...)
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #35 of 75: Susannah Fox (sus4nnah) Thu 25 Apr 24 06:26
permalink #35 of 75: Susannah Fox (sus4nnah) Thu 25 Apr 24 06:26
Kathy, thank you for keeping a blog, on behalf of everyone who benefits from it. "I want to be visible" is SUCH a key insight since so many peer-led health conversations are happening in private FB groups or other siloed online communities. In my book I quote Liz Salmi, a brain tumor patient, talking about the shift from open-web blogging to FB and other closed social platforms: The shift to short-form posts increases the ease by which people can provide peer health advice, but that advice is not as easy to find for the newbies. How do we get the new patients to start blogging? Should we? Surely there are newer voices people should be listening to and learning from. One hope that I have is that AI can help people find and sift through the mountain of first-person stories to find the "just-in-time someone-like-you" who can provide the advice needed, when needed. Note: We need to talk about the ethics of feeding a community's posts into the maw of an LLM and other issues, but it's a possible future application to connect people, peer-to-peer. Here's more about Liz Salmi for anyone curious about this awesome patient advocate: https://www.opennotes.org/family/liz-salmi/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizsalmi/ @TheLizArmy on X
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #36 of 75: Kathy Whilden (wildini-k) Thu 25 Apr 24 08:30
permalink #36 of 75: Kathy Whilden (wildini-k) Thu 25 Apr 24 08:30
The hardest part of becoming an effective patient for me is learning the medical language, what the words mean and how to pronounce them. I have spent years reading books just to understand the medical culture. First I read patient memoirs, then doctors memoirs and commentaries about their training and concerns, and now policy, hospital, and the financial issues.I am not sure now what I will be researching through book reading.
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #37 of 75: Nancy White (choco) Thu 25 Apr 24 10:37
permalink #37 of 75: Nancy White (choco) Thu 25 Apr 24 10:37
Re AIagents - WHO's SARAH https://www.who.int/campaigns/s-a-r-a-h which apparently skirts the edges of some ethical and accuracy issues. I feel so torn about this stuff. Beth Kanter writes about it here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/bethkanter_using-ai-to-lead-a-healthier-lifesty le-activity-7189276997024464896-U6G7?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_deskto p (By the way, Sally James here in Seattle raved about you!)
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #38 of 75: Susannah Fox (sus4nnah) Thu 25 Apr 24 12:55
permalink #38 of 75: Susannah Fox (sus4nnah) Thu 25 Apr 24 12:55
Kathy, which patient/caregiver & doctor memoirs were your favorites? A few of mine: Josie's Story, by Sorrel King Saving Henry, by Laurie Strongin Chasing My Cure, by David Fajgenbaum, MD MBA The Long Haul, by Ryan Prior The Invisible Kingdom, by Meghan O'Rourke Thanks, Nancy, for the links and the shout-out from Sally!
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #39 of 75: Kathy Whilden (wildini-k) Thu 25 Apr 24 15:34
permalink #39 of 75: Kathy Whilden (wildini-k) Thu 25 Apr 24 15:34
Here are some of the books I have read. Lloyd Sederer, MD. CAUGHT IN THE CROSSHAIRS OF AMERICAN HEALTHCARE. Laura Liberman, MD. I SIGNED AS THE DOCTOR Peter Kennedy, MD. MEDICINE MAN Jonathan Reisman, MD. THE UNSEEN BODY, the doctors journey through the hidden wonders of the human anatomy Danielle Ofri, MD WHEN WE DO HARM, a doctor confronts medical error. Nabil Othman, MD. VIGILANCE, an anesthesiologists notes on thriving in uncertainty. Wendy Lau, MD INNER PRACTICE OF MEICINE Victoria Sweet, MF . SLOW MEDICINE, THE WAY TO HEALING Atul Gawande, MD. BEING MORTAL, MEDICINE AND WHAT MATTERS IN THE END. Anne Boyer, THE UNDYING, a meditation on modern illness Danielle Ofri, MD. MEDICINE IN TRANSLATION, journeys with my patients Jerome Groopman, MD. HOW DOCTORS THINK Atul Gawande, BETTER, A SURGEONS NOTES ON PERFORMANCE Adam Kay, THIS IS GOING TO HURT, secret diaries of a junior Doctor
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #40 of 75: Paulina Borsook (loris) Thu 25 Apr 24 16:02
permalink #40 of 75: Paulina Borsook (loris) Thu 25 Apr 24 16:02
a vote for a fictional title: "sometimes people die' by simon stephenson. british/set in a fictional under-resourced london hospital... loved the tv series 'this is going to hurt'...
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #41 of 75: Tiffany Lee Brown (magdalen) Thu 25 Apr 24 21:55
permalink #41 of 75: Tiffany Lee Brown (magdalen) Thu 25 Apr 24 21:55
Gawande is marvelous. Not Certain that I have read any of the others.
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #42 of 75: Plutopian (jonl) Fri 26 Apr 24 06:09
permalink #42 of 75: Plutopian (jonl) Fri 26 Apr 24 06:09
I would add e-Patient Dave deBronkart's books, LET PATIENTS HELP; LAUGH, SING, AND EAT LIKE A PIG: How an Empowered Patient Beat Stage IV Cancer (And What Healthcare Can Learn from It); and FACING DEATH-WITH HOPE. Dave has been a leading patient advocate and speaker for years now. Susannah mentions his story in her book: Dave was diagnosed with stage IV, grade 4 renal cell carcinoma, and working with his physician, Danny Sands, found a treatment that saved his life. He's still going strong 17 years later, and in the interim he's dedicated his life to the patient-led health revolution.
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #43 of 75: Susannah Fox (sus4nnah) Fri 26 Apr 24 07:11
permalink #43 of 75: Susannah Fox (sus4nnah) Fri 26 Apr 24 07:11
Yes, thanks for adding Dave's books to the list, <jonl>. In writing REBEL HEALTH I chose to tell stories about a wide range of advocates and change agents to show that this revolution is not just for people with diabetes or cancer or ALS or Parkinsons or rare diseases or heart disease or [fill in the blank]. The partnership that Dave and Danny forged as a patient-clinician duo should be possible across many health challenges -- if you're lucky enough to find a primary care doctor!!
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #44 of 75: Plutopian (jonl) Fri 26 Apr 24 07:35
permalink #44 of 75: Plutopian (jonl) Fri 26 Apr 24 07:35
Danny is a great model. Physicians like Danny understand the importance of listening to the patient - that the patient can be an active, fully-participating member of the healthcare team. I assume some patients won't want this, or won't be able to grasp it. How can a physician judge to what extent the patient can and should be included? I wonder if any medical schools or organizations are teaching best practices for patient collaboration?
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #45 of 75: Kathy Whilden (wildini-k) Fri 26 Apr 24 09:30
permalink #45 of 75: Kathy Whilden (wildini-k) Fri 26 Apr 24 09:30
The book I am reading now is THE UNSEEN BODY by dr. Jonathan Reisman. He talks about the interconnections of all parts of the body, which is not what I learn from the specialists that are treating me. I have to be aware of this since they don't seem to be. My swollen fingers are related to the immuno threatments in the bladder. The specialist won't treat this, MY PCP might. Or I will treat it myself.
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #46 of 75: Mary Mazzocco (mazz) Fri 26 Apr 24 09:40
permalink #46 of 75: Mary Mazzocco (mazz) Fri 26 Apr 24 09:40
This might be a good place to remind Well members that <inkwell.vue> is a publicly visible conference. If you reconsider and want to delete a post because it contains private information, click on its number and choose scribble. You only have this option for your own posts.
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #47 of 75: Plutopian (jonl) Fri 26 Apr 24 17:50
permalink #47 of 75: Plutopian (jonl) Fri 26 Apr 24 17:50
Thanks, <mazz>. "Public" on the WELL can have other meanings, but in this case, it means that the conference is readable by persons who are not members of the WELL, i.e. "world-readable."
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #48 of 75: Paulina Borsook (loris) Sat 27 Apr 24 12:55
permalink #48 of 75: Paulina Borsook (loris) Sat 27 Apr 24 12:55
wanted to present a POV from the abyss staring up and out: - among other things i have long suffered with multiple chemical sensitivity, a malady everyone hates and little can be done for --- greeted with even more antipathy than ME/CFS, where our julie has done so much good. anyway, my pseudo-medical model is 'complex neuroimmune system dysregulation' --- but of course means little. anyway back in the 90s there was a wonderful woman named susan molloy, who started environmental health network (just what it sounds like); set about to create ecology house (1st mcs-safer low-income housing in the country); and produced the monthly "new reactor', this was a fantastic publication: combo of recommendations for products + services/classifieds/research [at times, ppl in the research community would reach out to her to find ways to study us), memoir, and just -stuff- that someone with a fine editorial eye curated. she died and 'new reactor' with it --- and i never found anything close to it in terms of signal to noise ratio. we are all so different from each other that what works for one of is might not work/be tolerable for another. had similar experiences when i dipped into TBI support groups about 10 yrs ago. idea here there is no replacement for a smart capable person handling info flow. - am in another group --- [dont laugh] for disabled creators on patreon. yes we can actively empathize with each other, as for example what it's like to have a bad day/week/month and not be able to be productive. but am struck that we mostly cannot help each other: battling with bureacracy/being broke/needing support of all kinds which just isnt available --- well, no help for it. which is not to disagree with the 'rebel health' notion; what i experience is the loss of solo practitioners not tyrannized by a 'health care system' who have the time and experientially-learned clinical intuition to be truly of assistance/great resources. my three main guys like this have all died in the last five yrs (they were in their 70s) --- and we wont see their like again, i dont think. [carry on].
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #49 of 75: Nancy White (choco) Sat 27 Apr 24 14:08
permalink #49 of 75: Nancy White (choco) Sat 27 Apr 24 14:08
I am driven to tears reading that, Paulina. It resonates. I think so many of us are blind to the amount of energy it takes to operate as someone "different" in our world, AND at the same time, how many people carry these differences that present challenge in their life. It is like an open secret. I'm struggling to find words. My LGBT!+ grandperson who is brilliant, carries social anxiety, adhd and probably Autism, has taught me SO MUCH. And what this 14 year old already has is an amazing sense of and practice of self advocacy. Gives me hope. So much more to say... and at the same time the brain fog from meds making clarity elusive!!!
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Susannah Fox: Rebel Health
permalink #50 of 75: Paulina Borsook (loris) Sat 27 Apr 24 17:11
permalink #50 of 75: Paulina Borsook (loris) Sat 27 Apr 24 17:11
i will also point out that the mainstream (as in, centers for independent living) disability is ignorant/indifferent/hostile to folks with mcs. we arent the right kind of disabled...
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