Inkwell: Authors and Artists

    
Omigosh. Really? It seems unlikely that sex would ever be free with a
gal who refers to men as ATMs... :) Though it's not my kind of
terminology, I like the hi-tech twist on an old concept. I wonder if
Lily Burana is anywhere near and whether she might like to comment? 

I don't know whether an outsider to the profession would say that
Nancy Chan sees men as objects. I'm curious to know how readers feel
about that.
  

    
Have no idea, Tracy.

Three questions, <tracyquan>,  having to do with juggling
your sex life between personally private and quasi-public situations:

#1: Does having sex for money sometimes lessen it's value
for you when you do not get cash out of it? For instance,
if you ended up having sex with someone you were casually dating
and it didn't work out romantically would you ever feel somehow more
cheated or angry about it, do you think, because you are used to
getting paid? How did this enter into the equation when you were
dating? Or did it?

#2: Did you ever resent the sex with your own personal lover? As in,
when your private lovemaking went on too long or too vigourously or
intensively did you feel, "This is encroaching on the energy I will
need to see the people I have to see tomorrow?" If it was a problem
then, how did you balance the needs of your personal partner with the
needs of your clients? Did you find the boundary between client and
personal lover ever slipping? Or vis versa?

#3: Did you ever enjoy sex more with a client than with a personal
actual lover? Does the emotional energy of being in love ever interfere
with pure sex or does it always enhance it for you? Was your best
sexual experience of your life with a lover or in a professional
context? How does sex with someone who you are personally close to
differ from that with an aquaintance? Or does it?

Pick and choose whichever questions you want to answer. Obviously.
I know I probably asked too many. These are questions for Tracy, not
about Nancy.

Thank you.
  

    
Hi Vasudha. Yes, there have been times in my life when sex with a
client was more appealing than sex with a friend, or equally appealing.
I do not generally have sexual experiences that I resent --sex is not
an area of life where anger comes up a lot... it is a fairly benign
part of my existence, I think, and I shy away from situations that are
troubling. 

I will answer in more depth later today... I am in the middle of
prepping for an event tomorrow, Tuesday, where I'll be speaking.
Information to follow! 
  

    
Event: Tuesday 10/2 at 7 pm 
"Should Prostitution be Decriminalized?"

Community Board #2 is sponsoring a forum to discuss decriminalization
in New York. PONY members Aaron Lawrence and Tracy Quan will be joined
by Barbara Cassis, David Posner, Paisley Currah, and quite possibly
surprise guests added at the very last minute. Aubrey Lees of Community
Board #2 will chair. All this will take place at

Vanderbilt Hall 
NYU School of Law, 
40 Washington Square South 
Room 204

All are welcome to attend. Reception and refreshments to follow.
The forum starts at 7pm, and will probably last 'til 9.
  

    

Looking forward to a full report.  I'm really interested to know how
likely it is that prostitution will be legalized, and if so, in which of
its forms?
  

    

   I seriously doubt that much more than 10% of adult Americans are
anywhere NEAR mature enough to cope with legalized prostitution in
any form, but OTOH the existence of a community meeting to discuss
the matter (apparently seriously?) surprises me too so maybe I'm just
too pessimistic.
  

    
Will TQ ever come West to the SF Bay Area to flog the book?
  

    

  Make sure there's a stop in Seattle if so!
  

    
A call girl today doesn't have the same kind of social impact 

as did courtesans in the past....


I would argue that paid and unpaid sexworkers so have social impact,
great social impact, but given the nature of our mass society, most of
the impact is unknowable...

Responding to TQ's query of us readers, Nancy in no way considers
johns as only objects in my estimation. What adds to the fascination
for me of her book and attitude is that she exhibits a deep
appreciation for finding "friendship/relationashiplk-stuff" in every
exchange, even those marked by money. I refer to the first man that was
present, and possibly caused, multiple orgasms...a man she never saw
again....the one that got away (and for the wrong reasons.)

And her prefered on-going clients are more like the medical model of
human exchange, that is, it most often, in the best of cases, goes both
ways. Each of the persons gaining something, finding something, beyond
just the commercial level of exchange. ONe does not do that with
objects.
  

    
> johns

Sigh...
  

    
So here's a bit of old business.  In preparing for this interview I
looked through your posts from when you were an active WeLL member a
couple years ago (it's fun to have a license to cyberstalk).  One of
the last things you posted was this intriguing bit:

  media.old.364: SALON, one more time
  media.old.364.833: What's the rumpus?? (quan)  Fri 31 Jul 98 14:09
   Viagra is way over-rated, actually. There are many problems associated with
   it and I think it will destabilize the sexual marketplace.

We never got to hear your elaboration on this.  I wonder if you have
any further thoughts?  How do you feel about Viagra three years later?
  

    
Perhaps I was too quick to judge Viagra -- does it enhance or hinder
the earnings of sex workers? That's the basic question for me, and I
suppose there are clients who would not visit a hooker without their
dose of Viagra. 

At the time of that post, I was under the influence of a news report
about a prostitute in (was it Hong Kong? Or Taipei?) who got so
frustrated with a client that she shot him because he wouldn't stop! I
suspect he had taken an overdose and he may have been imbalanced or
aggressive in other ways -- before he took the Viagra. There was (is?)
a problem with street Viagra, unregulated Viagra -- the same problem
that exists for many other drugs -- and maybe I was reacting to a story
of drug abuse. While this news story may have been somewhat
unreliable, it struck a chord for me, as a sex worker. Apparently,
Viagra can prolong erection in cases where no climax is forthcoming --
the ultimate definition of Hooker Hell. I think a prostitute also likes
to feel that her skill can determine the moment of orgasm -- and the
idea of this chemical interfering with the process, perhaps
indefinitely, seemed diabolical at the time. Honestly, I think it
*still* sounds diabolical... does this make me a sexual luddite???
  

    
rab and dsolar, I will let you know what is happening on the West
Coast as soon as I know... This is a rocky time for publicity in the
book biz -- there are conflicting reports. One minute you hear that
things are getting back to normal, next minute you're told that the
entire media machine is obsessed with The War. It may be that, for an
East Coast author, it makes more sense to tour East Coast cities -- but
I am still hammering out those plans with Crown... 
  

    
rab and linda, on the subject of legal change: I actually think that
far more than 10% of the public is for tolerating prostitution. It's
just that only a small percentage wants to put the time/energy into
changing the laws. The laws in the US are state laws -- it is always
going to be easier to bring about legal reform in countries where
prostitution is dealt with on the federal level, or in a country with
just a few states/provinces. 

Two countries that might reasonably be compared with the US are:
Canada (federal laws) and Australia (state laws.)At one point, the
Canadian prostitution laws were being challenged in the Supreme Court
and if I recall correctly the vote was quite narrow. In fact, a friend
of mine who was integral to the process liked to boast (for the longest
while) that he "ALMOST got it decriminalized throughout Canada" -- and
indeed he did. And what does it say that one can boast about something
which might be perceived as a failure? At least, it was on the table
for awhile. 

In Australia, New South Wales and Capital Territories are known for
their liberal prostitution laws/recent reforms and Australians still
regard themselves as the vanguard of the English-speaking prostitutes
movement. However, PONY -- situated in illegal clandestine New York
--gets requests all the time from Aussie hookers seeking to leave their
decriminalized utopia so they can work here! Each and every time, we
tell these wannabe criminals not to risk their liberty and safety by
coming here to work in a stigmatized illegal trade -- but the impulse
seems to be ingrained. I sometimes wonder if this is an atavistic
fantasy -- that cliche about Australia being settled by convicts and
whores... is it possible that liberalized Aussies feel nostalgic for
the outlaw identity? Are they attracted to America because we export so
many gangster movies and have as part of our own highbrow canon
ballets and musical compositions devoted to Billy the Kid?? Having been
a prostitutes rights activist since my teens, I find it mind-boggling
and somewhat humbling to contemplate the reasons for this.
  

    

   My understanding about the Canada situation is that sex-for-money is
technically legal but anything that would facilitate it -- such as talking
about it in a public place, advertising it, having a "notorious house" (in
other words, everyone knows where the Madam lives) and so on -- is against
the law.  So I was confused about that court case -- what would it have
changed about the law?  Allow advertising, or allow known operation, or...
what?
  

    

'Honestly, I think it
 *still* sounds diabolical... does this make me a sexual luddite???'

I don't think anorgasmia and undying erections are anywhere close to
the norm among Viagra users.
  

    
The Canadians were trying to overturn the laws which penalize people
for soliciting -- "communicating for the purpose of prostitution" --
and, by extension, the bawdy house laws as well.  Yes, the aim was to
make it a viable and legal activity that could take place in the open.
The lack of sex-for-money laws does make Canada a more relaxed country
in which to be a prostitute but the other laws are enforced and
customers are routinely harrassed/arrested in Canada. 
  

    
Now that National Airport(some call it Reagan International
Airport(though no international flights arrive there) is openning,
perhaps we can "get on with life."  I believe that we will be getting
back to business as usual, but with some caution.


Here in Maui where I've been for a few days, the un-employement
insurance applications have quadrupeled!

Front page stories talk about "increasing air traffic..."

The islands depend on tourism, and that has been down mightly, but
everyone is trying to say that it is "coming back"

So all of this, into the mix, TQ should plan on going West soon

Several venues shout out, and the union is strong out here.

Ought to sell books, and be a blast.

See you, Tracy, here soon.

And yr book deserves to be a moovie, soon. Lets do lunch soon about
it.
  

    
Tracy, I work in a bureaucracy (moderately dysfunction), and that
really heightens my sensitivity to discrepancies between the way things
are supposed to be done and the way they actually happen -- how
formalized rules and real relationships coexist.  All sorts of motives
come into the mix, and neither the formal rules nor the informal
arrangements have an exclusive hold on what is ideal.  Both the rules
and the people can be outdated, petty, inflexible, idealistic, wise,
and everything in between.

Most of the time there is some sort of unstated agreement that strikes
a humanizing/productive balance between the formal and the informal. 
It's too big, complex, and even counterproductive an effort to try to
change the formal every day to match the reality.

But one very important thing is that how visible (or invisible) the
discrepancy is makes a *huge* difference in how well an unstated
agreement works -- and any change in the visibility forces a change in
the undiscussed agreements.

It seems to me that our topic isn't referred to as "the world's oldest
profession" for nothing.  Every society has more or less formal rules
for how the sexes are expected to relate, and every society is composed
of real people, attempting to have real relationships within the
context of those rules.  When the rules don't work, "prostitution" is a
name we give to one of the realms for accommodating/working-out the
discrepancy.

Does this seem like an accurate characterization?  How, I wonder, does
changes in the level of visibility of prostitution affect the unspoken
agreements that can take place between the individuals involved?  (I'm
thinking about those Aussie hookers calling PONY, and wondering if, in
part, they are responding to a change in the type of
sexual/cultural/visible/invisible issues their clients bring to the
exchange.  Maybe now that it's legal, their clients view them more as a
commodity, and less as a secret partner in a cultural dialogue as old
as time.  Sounds more boring to me.)  Or am I just romanticizing?
  

    
>But one very important thing is that how visible (or invisible) the
discrepancy is makes a *huge* difference in how well an unstated
agreement works -- and any change in the visibility forces a change in
the undiscussed agreements.

Good point, I've heard that many prostitutes would never allow
pictures or film to be taken and even balk at getting on stage because
they prefer to remain private. 

Even if it was just some sort of registry some busy body would walk by
just at the wrong moment. A respectable junkie I know won't go to a
methadone clinic for fear of being seen like a local principal that was
photographed on the way out. 
  

    
Q: Does having sex for money sometimes lessen it's value
for you when you do not get cash out of it? 

Some call girls are lazy when they're not getting paid -- preferring
to avoid the strenuous positions, to lie back and let a boyfriend do
much of the "work." But that suggests a girl's sense of worth is
enhanced by her job, not that sex is devalued when unpaid. And also
suggests that the selling of pleasure builds up one's appetite for
pleasure.
  

    
Q: Maybe now that it's legal, their clients view them more as a
commodity, and less as a secret partner in a cultural dialogue as old
as time.  Sounds more boring to me.)  Or am I just romanticizing?

Maybe! At the panel discussion last night a sex worker from Australia
attributed all this to a simple and basic liking for the American
dollar! 
  

    
rab says "Even if it was just some sort of registry some busy body
would walk by just at the wrong moment." 

My impression is that, in legalized situations where everybody has to
be licensed and registered, there are always prostitutes operating
illegally -- it may be more lucrative to operate outside the system. In
fact, a hierarchy can evolve in which the truly connected are the
illegals. 

Looking at Nevada, there are two points I want to make. At the panel
last night, someone referred to the barbed wire fences that surround
legal brothels in certain Nevada counties and the implication was that
Nevada brothels are like prison camps. Now I've never seen one of these
brothels but the bottom line is -- women go to Nevada voluntarily to
work, and many seem to like it! On the other hand, many people who
COULD go there to work choose not to, they choose to work in Las Vegas
where it's illegal. 
  

    

  That excellent point was not mine, it was <sangfroid>'s in #120.


  What I've heard about those barbed-wire fences is that they exist
to reduce the drunken-crazy-breakins factor.  IOW, they're for the
safety of the staff from the customers that should (and do) get thrown
out.  But since I have no idea what they actually look like, perhaps
there is some unpleasantness to their appearance.....
  

    
I don't really buy into the rhetoric about Nevada brothels being like
prison camps. I can imagine that a New Yorker might read sinister
messages into MANY architectural decisions made in the western part of
the United States.