inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #76 of 141: No "punch the monkey" banner ads. (vard) Wed 10 Oct 01 14:44
permalink #76 of 141: No "punch the monkey" banner ads. (vard) Wed 10 Oct 01 14:44
Hmmm, I think it's pretty good for evening out skin tone generally.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #77 of 141: Martha Soukup (soukup) Wed 10 Oct 01 14:58
permalink #77 of 141: Martha Soukup (soukup) Wed 10 Oct 01 14:58
You must not have my nose.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #78 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Wed 10 Oct 01 16:08
permalink #78 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Wed 10 Oct 01 16:08
Jess: A place to rock out is your toes -- I get wild with my toe nail polish, especially in the winter when I can "test drive" some pretty rock and roll colors. I know you're a laywer and that you, by the nature of how conservative most law firms can be, cannot be extravagant in your makeup or dress, but there are many ways to be subversive and still maintain decorum. I have a friend who is a very well-paid lawyer, pin-striped suits and tie-bow blouses and the whole nine yards. She wears garter belts and stockings and increidbly filmy undergarments which makes her feel like a girly-girl/woman instead of a female-to-male-in-attitude transsexual. Ways to rock out? Hummmmm. I know you love deeply colored lipstick and have the curly red hair and the flair to carry it. As long as what you do is not uncomfortalbe to YOU, then anything you'd like to do, you cancarry off. It's all attitude. If you FEEL like your'e alittle girl palying with her mother's makeup kit, then that's how your'e gonig to act. But if you feel confident and quite chic, styolish and put together in red lips and a graet eye, then do it. Nobody is gonna think your'e the Whore of Babylon unles that's the attitude you project. Now: your second point: Drug store makeup as opposed to paying for the packaging and the designer name in department /specialty store cosmetic counters. I get asked this all the time. I once sat next to Christy Turlington at a party and we talked for an hour about Maybelline which she represented for such a long time. It is owned by L'Oreal which also owns Lancome. And Maybellin gets the same benefit from the L'Oreal labs as does Lancome. Or as Nars is getting from the Shiseido lab (and did you know that Shiseido's main line is a drug store line in Japan?). Point is: if the company is big and reputable like L'Oreal, Revlon, Cover Girl, Maybelline and Almay, then there are going to be inexpenisve high-fashion colors that will last one season that could be thrown away with no guilt. There is quite a difference between buyign a trendy lipstick at Chanel ($22.50) and the same exact color at L'Oreal ($5.99). Drug store lines may not have the same cutting edge technologies, although Lipfinity and Outlast certainly are more avant garde than Dior Addict, but if your'e on a budget or just want to experiment with a color, the cash outlay is easier to handle than buying a $23 lipstick that you'll never use. Splurging? Definitely on state-of-the-art products like foudnation although as we all know: Sonia Kashak's Target-lined foundations are terrific at $9.99 and quite a lot of bang for the buck. As for the 3-in-1 swivel stick foudnation: a good concealer used OVER that foundation will even out all the discoloration spots. I like that makeup a lot but if you've got oily skin, it sort of disappears right away.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #79 of 141: Martha Soukup (soukup) Wed 10 Oct 01 17:44
permalink #79 of 141: Martha Soukup (soukup) Wed 10 Oct 01 17:44
It's so easy to make your nose look like putty if you put enough makeup on it. Is there a way around that?
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #80 of 141: Linda Castellani (castle) Wed 10 Oct 01 23:48
permalink #80 of 141: Linda Castellani (castle) Wed 10 Oct 01 23:48
Cynthia you have a whole section on artificial tanning products, the forms they come in and how to apply them. Whenever I think about these things, I picture the streaky orange messes we made of ourselves back in junior high school. And I am trying desperately to remember the names of the most popular ones...seems like there was one with a Q in it...? Anyway, have these things improved in the last thirty years, or is the secret in how you apply it?
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #81 of 141: No "punch the monkey" banner ads. (vard) Thu 11 Oct 01 05:41
permalink #81 of 141: No "punch the monkey" banner ads. (vard) Thu 11 Oct 01 05:41
(I once tanned my palms a nice rich brown. It took over a week of very vigorous semi-obsessive-compulsive handwashings to get them back to normal.)
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #82 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Thu 11 Oct 01 05:54
permalink #82 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Thu 11 Oct 01 05:54
Vard: you can cure the orange palm syndrome by applying self-tanner with surgical gloves on (or even yellow kitchen gloes) and saving the backs of your hands for last -- which means putting tanner on the back of one hand and rubbing it on the back of the other. It's clumsy but it works. Anyhow: Man Tan and QT were very very orange. These new tanners aren't. It's just finding the one that works with your skin tone that can be so damned expensive. And there is no easy way around it. You gotta buy these things and experiment. My favorite this last year was a transparant spray from Guerlain called Terracotta. It went on evenly, didn't smell bad and brought up a really deep, golden Mexican-type tan. I even used it on my face although that's not advisible because some of the body products will occlude pores and they're not dermatalogically suited for facial use. Or: the company has put one out for the face and it'll cost you that little extra bit for the special stuff. Hard to tell which is the truth. Artifical tanners last 3-4 days; you can always reapply. To get it to work well, you should use a body scrub or polish and exfoliate, especially around your ankles, knees (bendable joints where the skin is thinner and where you have creases). The stuff should go on from the bottom up, ie: so you won't be folding your body and smearing the tanner if you start from the top down. Set up a place where you can dry (about 15 minutes to a half hour depending upon the product) like towels on your bed) and be sure to slather on enough of it and get it on evenly. Like apply it and spread it up and down and then cross ways. Maybe you can do this with your SO or a friend to get the hard-to-reach spot in the middle of the back. Don't be stingy. And if it comes out too light, you can always reapply. When it starts to fade (and it will exfoliate or slough off with your skin cells), you can reapply without having to exfoliate again. I kept the Terracotta stuff on my legs all summer with sandals because I get hardly any sun any more. I think I went through two bottles. What the tanner is is a derivative of beet sugar which combines with your skin sort of like nicotine stain. Seriously, while it isn't officially a vegetable dye, it is. And from what dermatologists tell me, totally harmless. Compared to getting enough sun to turn you those colors, it's worth the price. Caution, though: these products are cosmetic only. And provide absoutely NO sun protection whatsoever. They are not bringing up any melanin (the skin's protective coloration) in the skin at all but are staying on top of it. You need to use sunblock or sunscreen if you use them and go out in the sun.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #83 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Thu 11 Oct 01 05:58
permalink #83 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Thu 11 Oct 01 05:58
Martha: as for makeup that looks like putty on your nose. The nose is like everything else on your face: you just want to even out skin tone. And if you have a nose that tends to get red in cold weather, there's not much you can do about it. Skins that tend to redness or rosecea should be tended to by dermatologists or skin care specialists who can recommend products that wil cut the redness or equal out skin tone. there are a few conealer packages that come with green, blue or lavender creams to apply to different discoloration areas. Excessive red, I believe gets a little green on it (Chanel used to make a terrific greenish concealer which you would wear under your makeup); Lancome has a concealer compact as does Chanel and Laura Mercier. You just have to experiment and have someone show you how to use the stuff correctly. Which reemphasizes what I believe: enlist the help of these so-called "experts," by telling them exactly what you need, what your skill levels are and how much time you have to accomplish these things. It's one thing to buy the stuff, but you have to know how to use it effectively, else it's money and time wasted.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #84 of 141: No "punch the monkey" banner ads. (vard) Thu 11 Oct 01 06:16
permalink #84 of 141: No "punch the monkey" banner ads. (vard) Thu 11 Oct 01 06:16
Drugstore vs. department store question: last year I broke down and bought some of that Guerlain "Les Meteorites" powder with all the different pastel-ly colors that blend into a nice neutral shade. I see that Physicians Formula sells something at Walgreens that looks just about exactly the same (contents-wise; of course the packaging doesn't hold a candle to the Guerlain). The Physicians Formula is about 10% as expensive as the Guerlain. What do you think? P.S. I *love* the Guerlain stuff!
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #85 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Thu 11 Oct 01 07:49
permalink #85 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Thu 11 Oct 01 07:49
I also love Guerlain, Vard. It think it's a very high quailty product with a lot of bang for the buck. The texture on the Meteorites is much easier to use than the Physician's Formula. Also: I think that they would stay easy to apply longer. What happens with some drug store products is that they hae more additives in them abecause they have to stay o nthe shelves longer. With companies like Guerlain, Chanel, Lancome and Lauder, the companies refresh their old stock unless they are smaller companies which sell their product to the retailer directly. Point is: when you get a product like Meteorites, you get the benefit of their high tech delivery systems which can make soeting as powdery seeming as those little pebbles very creamy to the touch. They will stay that way a lot longer than the cheaper product and will give you the sheer, radiant effect you want. I think the Meteorites are a better buy.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #86 of 141: Laura Proctor (proctor) Thu 11 Oct 01 14:19
permalink #86 of 141: Laura Proctor (proctor) Thu 11 Oct 01 14:19
I think tanning products are a weird idea. I can't get my mind around them. To me, they're like the strange foundation colors that Cynthia described above, and I don't quite understand why one would want to alter the color of one's skin to that extent. Is it to give the world the impression that one is a lady of leisure, with lots of time to lie on the beach? I honestly don't get it.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #87 of 141: No "punch the monkey" banner ads. (vard) Thu 11 Oct 01 14:27
permalink #87 of 141: No "punch the monkey" banner ads. (vard) Thu 11 Oct 01 14:27
Sometimes it's just to make legs look less fat and pasty. signed, the Voice of Experience
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #88 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Thu 11 Oct 01 15:31
permalink #88 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Thu 11 Oct 01 15:31
Laura: personally, I think that a tan is quite attractive but that sun damage is too dangerous to contemplate. In the summer time, bare legs in sandals are really pretty with some kind of color on them and since the dreaded Martha Stewart-hose-with-sandals look is so outre, putting a little Leg Makeup for the Millennium on your legs is kinda nice. Sun tans started out in the 30s (thank you, Coco Chanel) as a sign that you had the m oney and the time to take a vacation in a tropical clime whilst everyone else was slogging through the muck and slush of a Paris winter. I think Coco inadvertently caused more skin cancer than she'd ever dreamed. So, yes, sun tans were the sign of the leisured class. Now that you can fake it, you can have that healthy, outdoors look any time you want. But if I remember rightly, Laura, your skin is very very pale and there is a fabulous beauty to that, so why would you of all people want to be tan anyhow when it really isn't your look?
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #89 of 141: Dr. Leda Horticulture (leroy) Thu 11 Oct 01 17:37
permalink #89 of 141: Dr. Leda Horticulture (leroy) Thu 11 Oct 01 17:37
Since my legs haven't seen the sun in 20 years, they're deathly white. My arms and face get a little bit of exposure, through sunscreen of course, just the unavoidable from the car to the door etc., but it's enough to turn that part of a slightly more golden color. Certainly not tan. But the contrast between that part of me and the corpse-white legs is too weirs, so in summer, when tiny parts of my ankles or calves are exposed to the world, I like to wear some color on them. But a bizarre thing happens: the tan-in- a-bottle stuff seems to stick to my freckles more than the skin around them. So rather than a nice smooth golden leg, I get a bunch of drak dark brown melanomish splotches against an ecru background. Lovely. I would never dream of putting it on my arms or face or anything. Just legs, and that's weird enough. Besides, it's too outrageously expensive.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #90 of 141: Linda Castellani (castle) Fri 12 Oct 01 00:28
permalink #90 of 141: Linda Castellani (castle) Fri 12 Oct 01 00:28
Cynthia also says that there are spas that will apply it for you, so that's something to consider, although I don't know how many of that sort of spa might be found in your neck of Louisiana. While we are contemplating that particular market niche, let's move on the section on makeup. I know that we've covered a lot of that already, but there's a great anecdote in the book that I'm hoping Cynthia will relate to us about her mother and red lipstick.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #91 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Fri 12 Oct 01 08:56
permalink #91 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Fri 12 Oct 01 08:56
My mother was a very proper woman. She never left the house without her white kid gloves, stockings and a big old Queen Elizabeth purse. (This was the 50s, of course). There was this girl whose name was L. (forgive me, she may still be living somewhere) who had a terrible reputation and who wore slutty red lipstick and tight skirts. My mother kept telling me that I would end up just like L. with a bad rep if I wore that "whorish" color. It was probably Cherries in the Snow or Love That Red or something from Revlon. Well, I wore something that was even more subversive: Milkmaid lipstick from Tussy, I belive. It came in a white enamel case with pink flowers on it and it was dead pinkish white. I traded my Tangee natural for that and for what my mother insisted on buying me: Lauder's Persian Melon, a coral pink and one of the most lady-like colors extant. I think I probably wore it until I went to college, at which point, I started wearing Chanel reds. I think that our color sense comes from either positive or negative conditioning from our mothers and our peers. How many y0ung girls will troll the cosmetic aisles at Walgreen and all buy the same noxious shade of lipstick. It's a badge of belonging to wear some kind of mauve or brown tone with the same eyeshadow. Peer pressure is a uniting force. So, if your mother was qutie strict about color and now as an adult you rock out with red lips and heavily-made up eyes or you've gone Goth or plucked your eyebrows down like Jean Harlow or whatever, it could be a reaction to the strictures put on you by your mom. Or: you listened to her and are sort of a mom-clone about makeup. My love of red lipstick has everything to do with how negative my mom felt about it. It's my statement that: I am NOT my mother.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #92 of 141: Dr. Leda Horticulture (leroy) Fri 12 Oct 01 09:57
permalink #92 of 141: Dr. Leda Horticulture (leroy) Fri 12 Oct 01 09:57
Great story! I came of age in the late 60s and early 70s when everybody was either a hippie or a revolutionary or a radical feminist or off serving in the Peace Corps in Bangladesh, and any kind of lipstick was looked down upon as frivilous, bourgeois, or a sign of slavery. To make matters worse, my poor mother was almost 40 when I was born, so she was almost two generations removed from me. What few beauty clues she might have tried to pass on were so hopelessly dated, they didn't stand a chance against the politics of the day. So somehow, I just never learned anything. And I managed to get away with my ignorance for several decades by living in Berkeley. But I remember my grandmother telling me that when her husband was alive (her husband was my grandfather--my grandmother married my grandfather! What a southern thing to do!) he wouldn't allow her to wear makeup. He said it was trashy and only cheap women wore it. He died suddenly in his late forties (in 1949), and my grandmother, who loved him dearly and grieved deeply, nevertheless wore bright red lipstick to his funeral. To her, it was a symbol of liberation. Anyway, I think it's interesting, how loaded the whole subject of cosmetics is, how many different meanings makeup can take on for different people in different times and different places. It can be liberating or oppressive; creative or enslaving; sophisticated or silly. Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't spend a decade or so in pshychoanalysis before I even start trying to learn how to apply lipliner.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #93 of 141: Jessica Mann Gutteridge (jessica) Fri 12 Oct 01 10:05
permalink #93 of 141: Jessica Mann Gutteridge (jessica) Fri 12 Oct 01 10:05
I find it amazing that I can remember the brand and name of every lipstick I have worn regularly in my life, and I can even remember several of my mother's. Reading Cynthia's story made me realize that I'm not alone in that.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #94 of 141: Casey Ellis (caseyell) Fri 12 Oct 01 10:46
permalink #94 of 141: Casey Ellis (caseyell) Fri 12 Oct 01 10:46
Persian Melon! What a memory flash.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #95 of 141: No "punch the monkey" banner ads. (vard) Fri 12 Oct 01 13:23
permalink #95 of 141: No "punch the monkey" banner ads. (vard) Fri 12 Oct 01 13:23
Tangee Natural!
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #96 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Fri 12 Oct 01 13:26
permalink #96 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Fri 12 Oct 01 13:26
Leroy, when I started researching the book (Oh, yes, girls and boys, I did a LOT of research), I got half way through a couple of very polemic books and decided that poltiics and feminist rants had no place in a practical, how-to, workbook format, so I stayed as far away from it as I could. I am not going to get into that rant. It is fraught with traps. But anyone who has read my posts for the past 7-8 years or so, understands who I am, where I'm coming from and how I feel about cosmetics -- I personally think they're a whole lot of fun, not serious and certainly not laden with the heavy baggage of enslavement, servitude, agism, lookism or anything else that seems to toxic if you nitpick enough. Yes, if you were a good Movement woman (and who could forget the rallying cry of the brave young draft card burner: "chicks up front") wearing lipstick with your work shirts, Frye boots and elephant bells was verboten, but how do you explain patchouli oil or the Body Shop's China Rain? Examine the other side of the 60s coin and you had Edie Sedgewick and Twiggy with their skinny little legs and their white lips and their painted on-under lashes and their two pairs of fakes and their spikey frosted hair. The 70s, meanwhile, when the Vietnam War was raging, was one of the most decadent makeup decades going: disco shadow, eyebrows carved down to fly-away commas and skinny tadpole shapes; more fake eyelashes, uppers AND lowers; bodysuits and hiphuggers; platform shoes (how many of us fell off our Cherokees?) and ironed hair down to the the boobs. The Feminine Mystique came out in 1973, I believe -- but that didn't stop the disco ball, did it? oops, Vard slipped. Yup, honey. Tangee Natural. Orange in the tube, slick on the lips.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #97 of 141: Dr. Leda Horticulture (leroy) Fri 12 Oct 01 14:57
permalink #97 of 141: Dr. Leda Horticulture (leroy) Fri 12 Oct 01 14:57
I missed all the fun, but I'm going to makeup for it.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #98 of 141: Laura Proctor (proctor) Fri 12 Oct 01 16:15
permalink #98 of 141: Laura Proctor (proctor) Fri 12 Oct 01 16:15
I still remember the very first lipstick I ever wore regularly: Clinique Mauve Crystal. I think they still make it. It was a very light frosty pink, barely noticable, and it was the first one I didn't think made me look like a clown.
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #99 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Fri 12 Oct 01 19:25
permalink #99 of 141: Da Beauty Queen (cynthiar) Fri 12 Oct 01 19:25
So Laura, how did you get to be such a red lipstick person?
inkwell.vue.124
:
Cynthia Robins: The Beauty Workbook
permalink #100 of 141: Linda Castellani (castle) Fri 12 Oct 01 20:58
permalink #100 of 141: Linda Castellani (castle) Fri 12 Oct 01 20:58
I like your description of the look of the 50's, particularly the eyeliner with the little wing extending out at the outside corner. I actually miss those! My eyes are too close together, and those little wings draw the eye to the outer corner, thus creating the illusion that my eyes were farther apart than they really are. As it is, I wear glasses now, and I have to be careful, when choosing glasses frames, to choose a clear bridge, so it doesn't call attention to the middle of my face and those too-close-together eyes, and frame with some sort of activity at the temples to again draw the eye of the beholder to the outer edge of the face and away from those too-close-together eyes. Enough about my facial challenges! Tell us about what a signature look is, and how to get one.
Members: Enter the conference to participate. All posts made in this conference are world-readable.