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permalink #176 of 1963: Adriana Roze (ariadne26) Fri 12 Apr 02 10:23
permalink #176 of 1963: Adriana Roze (ariadne26) Fri 12 Apr 02 10:23
Well, Neil, which Endless are YOU?
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permalink #177 of 1963: Bill^2 (billbill) Fri 12 Apr 02 10:53
permalink #177 of 1963: Bill^2 (billbill) Fri 12 Apr 02 10:53
Neil-- I've also offered to mirror for Jouni, and have shamelessly stolen Tara's HTML files to speed up the transition. You can add http://member.newsguy.com/~wjw52673/babycakes/ and http://mywebpages.comcast.net/w.j.williams/babycakes/ to your list of mirror sites for his pictures. Hopefully between these four sites we can keep them available.
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permalink #178 of 1963: Tracey who wears black (jinx) Fri 12 Apr 02 10:54
permalink #178 of 1963: Tracey who wears black (jinx) Fri 12 Apr 02 10:54
Well I'm Death,....not to much of a shocker,...considering I normally mostly wear black, amd am not Del-directed or totally morbid. Mousie, you know me I'm not goth, but at work since I am not a corporate fashion plate they tend to lump me in there. I was agast reading the article, and can't help but wonder what the real problems of the town are. I was asked about this at work, by someone who wasn't being pleasent about it, and after turning and very sweetly resonding, something about his head,..his ass, and the ability to gather information that way, my darling boyfriend rsaid "That's my little gothic princess" Tree,....bat pictures? Please??? Rob wants to visit,....thinking about moving, any casinos around? Neil, I second Adriana,....please? Jinx trying the polite approach
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permalink #179 of 1963: -N. (streak) Fri 12 Apr 02 11:33
permalink #179 of 1963: -N. (streak) Fri 12 Apr 02 11:33
Jouni, liked the story a lot. The artwork in particular was gorgeous. Great linework; reminded me of Jim Mahfood. I think you might have compressed it a little too much into six pages, though. My take on the story is that the justification should have a little more space. Great images, though. Let us know if you do any similar work in the future, I for one would love to see it. As to the silly legislation, sounds like another state-law tempest in a teapot to me. Downright amazing what sneaks past some state legislatures. Though if they were trying to combat goth poetry, I might send a letter of support. :-)
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permalink #180 of 1963: la belle dame avec squeaks (miss-mousey) Fri 12 Apr 02 16:28
permalink #180 of 1963: la belle dame avec squeaks (miss-mousey) Fri 12 Apr 02 16:28
<lioness> - I'd say I feel better after the rant, but the legislation is still there and my friend still got dosed at the club last week. As for winding me up, it's my own fault I forgot I have a relaxation yoga tape specifically for times like this. (breathe in... and... exhale....) Neil - a CBLDF for goth culture *would* probably be pretty useful. And now I'm wondering if there are any lawyers who would take this up as a cause... Dan - Damnit, you've made me cross examine myself today - I'm still howling mad about the whole goth culture slam and my poor friend, and as a result I've chosen the stealth-garb (all black), the done up and impractical (and slightly scary) hair, club make up, excessive rings, and the New Rock boots. Tho' I'm more angry than depressed about the state of the human condition... maybe I should listen to more Bauhaus and Morrissey? Jouni - I finally got it all - yay! It turned out so creepy! I love it. Oh, and since I've been dealing with it for the past two days, nonstop, I'll post it here too. My friend was likely drugged with GHB at the club last week. After consulting with various club security people, I'm discovering that the problem is growing out of control. For those who don't know about it, GHB is BAD stuff - slows your heart rate, can induce coma and a slight case of death when mixed with alcohol, is virtually undetectable by taste if dumped in a mixed drink (especially if you're already a little toasted), and it's addictive. It's the date rape drug of choice, and if you've been dosed, you tend to forget what happened to you while you were dosed. If you go to clubs at all, KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR DRINK! Security catches those they can, but it's a hard thing to catch. I encourage you to pass the message along to anyone you know who might be affected. squeaks, whose friend is fine now, but much more careful with her drinks
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permalink #181 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Fri 12 Apr 02 16:46
permalink #181 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Fri 12 Apr 02 16:46
Squeaks, remember how our government works, and take comfort in it. $272,999.00 will most likely be spent on the local gov'm't's officials' personal spending. Justified, of course. $1 will be spent on smilely face stickers they'll have interns hand out. Tara, still want me to pick you up tomorrow?
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permalink #182 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Fri 12 Apr 02 16:57
permalink #182 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Fri 12 Apr 02 16:57
Maure: sent you email--sorry it took me so long! Forgot to take your addy with me to work, 'cause, you know, I suck, and stuff...
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permalink #183 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Fri 12 Apr 02 21:14
permalink #183 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Fri 12 Apr 02 21:14
Squeaks, very sorry about your friend. I always preferred being angry to being depressed, myself. Your getup sounds kickass, though. Tara, I never got it! Did I write it down correctly for you? egregiousbalihoo@aol.com or, because it's easier, hmaure@aol.com I sent an email to your hotmail account - do you check that? I'll email you my cell number.
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permalink #184 of 1963: Linda Castellani (castle) Sat 13 Apr 02 09:15
permalink #184 of 1963: Linda Castellani (castle) Sat 13 Apr 02 09:15
E-mail from Gregory Osborne: Hi. Just thought I'd poke my head back in and say hello after an absence so long I am essentially a stranger here. I found the idea of a campaign to wipe out Goth culture both sadly comic and deeply frightening in the way that only such stupid, but palatable to the ignorant ideas can be. My immediate thoughts on reading the article were of the Doctor Who story "The Happiness Patrol" which involved colourfully-dressed death squads roaming the streets hunting down anyone who exhibited signs of unhappiness or discontent, and that next time anyone schedules a Star Wars convention in Hannibal, the Darth Vader impersonators had better look out. All that dressing in dark clothes and thinking dark thoughts will get them in trouble. The whole thing would be funny if these people were isolated cranks, but when they are civic authorities and elected officials it becomes nightmarish. The connection between the Columbine massacre and goth culture is a lie that like all great lies, reverses traditional perspective and grows larger the further away it gets. It is becoming for conservative juvenophobes, (is that a word? It is now,) what "The Protocols of Sion" was, (and scarily still is in some quarters,) to anti-semites. It was not true. It is not true. It will not ever be true. But that doesn't stop it being used as a justification for hatefullness. I am not a goth, (and I know that the idea of me being one is causing those of you who know me to dissolve into fits of giggles about now,) but I do tend to wear a lot of black. It is very slimming and it is easy to colour co-ordinate. Sometimes I think dark thoughts. This is because I have an IQ that is above room temperature and I live in a world where bad things sometimes happen and they must be faced rather than swept under the carpet. A lot of the music I listen to is never going to be played on easy listening radio and a lot of the books I read weren't written by Norman Vincent Peale. But you know what? I still manage to be a functioning member of society. Sometimes I'm a complete bastard and you wouldn't want to know me, but most of the time I am what is termed around my way as "a pretty good bloke." What really worries me is that if I was a teenager and lived in Hannibal Missouri, I would almost certainly be considered "at risk". At risk of what for gods' sakes? Of actually growing up into someone who thinks for himself? Of suspecting that there is more to life than making the team, marrying a cheerleader and evolving into a good consumer? I don't know much about psychology, but I'm pretty sure that the way to reach alienated teenagers is not by treating them as potential mass-murderers. I wonder what that town's most celebrated former resident would have said about this policy. Perhaps the writing was on the wall even then, since the Great Man seems to have gotten out of the place as soon as he could. I know I'm ranting and I apologise, but it is frustrating when people are being willfully stupid and I can't even suggest that all right thinking people boycott the town of Hannibal, since no-one would really want to visit the place anyway. I'll just go and punch the wall now. Oh, and Tree, any time you want to challenge, I'm up for a game of Trivial Pursuit. You forgot to mention that "Sandy Stone" is the answer to 68% of the Entertainment questions in the Australian edition. And in case you've gotten this far Neil, thanks for going out of your way to make me feel welcome at Boskone and for introducing me to John Singer. I feel like I am in the loop somehow now.:-) I think I should also point out to those who might want to try that Neil seems completely immune to the lure of the Tim Tam. After having Charles Vess and Emma Bull stealing them off me all weekend, I was somewhat taken aback when the only person I actually offered one to declined. I have my own theories on why he resists, but I am sorry that I didn't have a spare pack to send home for those members of his household who aren't quite so restrained. Reg(who almost has his credit card debt under control again and will soon be ready to get a Well account again)
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permalink #185 of 1963: Mary Roane (the-roane) Sat 13 Apr 02 22:57
permalink #185 of 1963: Mary Roane (the-roane) Sat 13 Apr 02 22:57
Um, hi! Just back from Horrorcon. Was lovely. I am so tired my eyelashes hurt, but just wanted to say-- Maure is so cool, ice does not melt in her drink. Tara's definitely keeping her, and I get to take her for walkies! And Neil--you so totally rock for introducing all of us. Thanks again! Gene Wolfe is lovely, and Gahan Wilson is hilarious. And Caitlin Kiernan's next book is going to rock out loud! Maddy Gaiman is absolutely precious. And Neil makes a very nice Reverend...... OK, I'm raving. Must get sleep.....
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permalink #186 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 01:37
permalink #186 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 01:37
I had the bestest week-end! The fabulous Maure just dropped me off--we had a driving adventure, as we missed my street because I am dumber than toast, and then we even saw a hooker! She had shiny boots. Maure dropped me at home, and is now going to go home and be attacked by her cats. I am going to go to sleep so I can be (slightly) rested when the Backflip Boy arrives tomorrow. Hugs to all! More coherant recap of events will be forthcoming, after I have slept.
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permalink #187 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 03:27
permalink #187 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 03:27
Mary, you're a doll! I'll chime in too . . . got home about an hour ago. The drive was marvelous. It's still mostly dark but the birds are up and singing loudly. Was thinking of letting Kira out for a while to quiet said birds. She was not interested - she didn't want to have to catch her food. I got to meet Lorraine today, and she signed my liner notes. I was happy! Gene Wolfe's radio play was magnificent. I absolutely loved it. I love hearing stories read that way. After balking about asking Gene Wolfe to sign my books (or rather, balking at talking to him altogether), Tara helped me. Mr. Wolfe asked me, if I were like this with him, how was I going to be with Neil Gaiman? heehee - I have a script. Neil, I don't know whether or not I'll see you tomorrow, so I must thank you very much for introducing me to Mary and Tara. They are wonderfully funny and sweet, and Tara has even promised me a water bottle for the side of my cage! If she ever lets me out again, I might get a chance to ask you to sign the books I bought today. You're lovely. I hope you get some rest. Tara, sleep, sleep . . . qu'est-que ce? I heard a myth about such a thing, once.
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permalink #188 of 1963: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Sun 14 Apr 02 07:04
permalink #188 of 1963: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Sun 14 Apr 02 07:04
(I didn't do much -- when I realised that Maure didn't know/hadn't met the Unusual Suspects [Mary, Tara, Debbie&Chris] I made sure that she was introduced.) Tried hard to get Maddy and Lorraine's ticket changed so they got to be here more of Sunday, but it would have cost $1000 a ticket to change them. so they've gone back already. Pity -- Maddy seemed to be enjoying herself more than any 7 year old girl at a horror con had any right to. She too liked the radio play of Gene's THE TREE IS MY HAT. "I liked the scream best," she said.
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permalink #189 of 1963: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Sun 14 Apr 02 07:07
permalink #189 of 1963: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Sun 14 Apr 02 07:07
Reg -- I've got some very funny e-mails from goths, and a concerned e-mail from someone convinced I should put something up on the blogger imploring people not to overreact and do anything foolish.
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permalink #190 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 09:40
permalink #190 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 09:40
Neil, oh, I'm sorry that they left. I saw Maddy playing tag or chase outside the ballrooms with many adults - and she was too fast for all of them. Maddy is a very interesting and unusual name.
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permalink #191 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:35
permalink #191 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:35
<scribbled by uisgejack>
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permalink #192 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:38
permalink #192 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:38
Debbie, now that I've confirmed you are lurking, I also was so happy to meet you, and the coolest 12 year old ever <tm>. Teri, I hope I'm spelling your name correctly, it was also delightful to meet you. I learned later that you took a writing workshop with my friend Holly, whom I met at a writing workshop, too. Weird, isn't it? You don't have to answer, I'll just imagine you said, "Yes, Maure, that's very strange!" Neil, you may not think it was much, but you have to admit that you did put forth some effort. I'd never seen you move so fast.
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permalink #193 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:39
permalink #193 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:39
<scribbled by uisgejack>
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permalink #194 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:41
permalink #194 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:41
RIGHT. so, not allowed to post without caffeine first... My cutting and pasting abilities? Impaired. Neil: yay! now we just need to figure out which of us is Kaiser Soze. Maure: I hear it's a derivative of Madeleine ... Tho the Elvira part is still my fave. Most everybody: Okay, thought about this rather a lot over the week-end, and here was what I was thinking... I know a while back we had talked about Well topic t-shirts, as a good way to recognise one another at signings and get togethers and cons and so on, and I am still mad keen on the idea. So here is my thought: 1. We have a contest for best design and tag line (or designs), and then pick the one we like bestest 2. We get shirts and other swag made at cafepress.com (which is POD--print on demand) and take a look at the pricing structure and figure out what they could cost that would ensure profits that can be donated to the CBLDF. Or if someone else has an in with a printer, we can go with them--I just figured POD would be easier. 3. We can do this every time we have a topic change, even... Thingies (them what come from alt.fan.thingie) have their own pretty autonomous community, and rather than being a general Neil fan thing, it really ought be just a Well thing. Love Thingies, don't get me wrong, but this would be a heck of a lot easier than standing on a chair and yelling "Hey! Anyone here from the Well?" at events. And I bet lurkers would love 'em too. Right, all you lurkers? [...] So, anyway, to this end, I am more than happy to set up a mini-site for the designs to live, and once I get my new (used) scanner next week, I can scan in designs for folks what wish to submit designs but have no access to a scanner. Whatcha think?
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permalink #195 of 1963: Patricia Clarkson (pclarkson) Sun 14 Apr 02 12:49
permalink #195 of 1963: Patricia Clarkson (pclarkson) Sun 14 Apr 02 12:49
Tara-- As I am usually in lurker-mode, it may qualify me to say that I would love 'em........ pc
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permalink #196 of 1963: Dan Wilson (stagewalker) Sun 14 Apr 02 13:14
permalink #196 of 1963: Dan Wilson (stagewalker) Sun 14 Apr 02 13:14
Squeaks - shit like that makes me want to go vigilante... (rest of post deleted due to endless string of pointless obscenities that while cathartic, don't do anything to help the situation or raise awareness). I hope, however, that anyone who is caught poisoning a drink in a culb is force fed the drink and tied to a lamppost with a sign stuck on them advertising them as the sick, inhuman, rapist scumbags that they are. I'm sure when they wake up, they'll put two and two together as to what happened to THEM the previous night. Mary - Neil makes a very nice Reverend? Um... Neil? Sounds like y'all had a fabulous time at HorrorCon... makes me wish I could have come out for it... ah well.
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permalink #197 of 1963: la belle dame avec squeaks (miss-mousey) Sun 14 Apr 02 13:24
permalink #197 of 1963: la belle dame avec squeaks (miss-mousey) Sun 14 Apr 02 13:24
Typing on the stupid bitty keyboard on the new (used) laptop (the other is dead, after happily bragging about it being 4 years old and never causing me problems) because said new (used) laptop is not recognizing a perfectly useable plug and play keyboard... Any way... re: goth bashing - Woke up this morning with two things in my head: 1) What *was* Scary Sherri's last name from the Zone? (this does not apply to anything here, it's just the first thing in my head) and 2) The Mob Song from Beauty and the Beast. I was just finding it funny that many of the people who are trying to combat goth culture are the same ones who were rooting for the misunderstood and slightly scary beast, booing the mob. Meanwhile, in the real world, they are the mob ("We don't like if we don't understand it and it scares us. And this monster is mysterious at least. Grab your guns. Grab your knives. Save your children and your wives..." yada yada yada...) It actually made me laugh. Then it made me want to watch Beauty and the Beast instead of doing the dishes. Maure/Tara/Mary - wishing I could have been there. I keep telling myself World Fantasy Con isn't *that* far away... and then I look at a calendar. hrm. shirts = good. General design that can be put onto a shirt or made into patches that I can decorate something I'm more likely to wear (like my favourite boring sweatshirt) might be better. But then, I tend not to wear t-shirts, despite my abundance of them. Just my $0.02. Hey! Dan slipped! But if they made the druggers take their own GHB, they'd probably just go and die, or at the very least they'd likely not remember the incident, and then how would they ever learn? I only said anything to let people know that it could happen (it does happen), and that watching your drink will help prevent it. Catching the buggers is VERY difficult. squeaks, who is being awfully wordy for someone who hates typing on this keyboard! I must really hate dishes more than I realized.
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permalink #198 of 1963: Tree--"Black, black, the gulls pecked out my eyes!" (jinx) Sun 14 Apr 02 19:05
permalink #198 of 1963: Tree--"Black, black, the gulls pecked out my eyes!" (jinx) Sun 14 Apr 02 19:05
On all things gothy--I'm just a pretendy-goth, but, like Our Lady of the Squeeks, I never have a problem going to goth clubs. It's the regular clubs that are full of arseholes and morons. What people tend to forget is that these are communities. Goths and other sub-cultures like them become communities because they are persecuted by others. This creates a network of people who can support you when you need it. I've been part of many communities like this, online and off, and I can tell you, they have been lifesavers. That is the part that these pointy headed gits in government don't see. They just see the kids who don't want to be Britney Speares or a member of Nsync and say, "Ooooh, bad!" There is enough grief around without losing the support of your community as well. Ack. This all sounded better in my head. Here, come into my head where the ideas are clear and succinct and witty. Sigh. Maure/Tara/Mary/et al, you have no idea how jealous we all are of you. You sound like you are having/have had the bestest fun. Reg--I'll have to get you and my boy teamed up for Trivial Pursuit. He can't seem to beat me any other way. Mind you, he partnered up with Linz's boy and still couldn't beat me... Tree Who hopes the local council doesn't bust the glamour goth birthday party she is throwing weekend after next. "But officer, we WERE having a good time! Really!"
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permalink #199 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 21:24
permalink #199 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 21:24
everyone, HorrorCon was the loveliest weekend. I've been so twisted up at work that I needed something nice and good and fascinating. And now I am happy to go back to my kids and tell them all about the creepiest, most ominous chapter of a book I've ever heard read aloud, and they will all write down the book's name, and will make their parents buy it for them when it comes out. And then I'll tell them about the chapter of Coraline Neil read, and will tell them to buy that too. . . . but I suppose some parents would complain about my recommending Low Red Moon to 11 year olds, so maybe I'll just tell them about the chapter of Coraline. Which really is the scariest chapter I've ever heard read aloud. This is going to be a knockout book. Squeaks, it's not that far away, at all. It's right around the corner. Really, it is.
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permalink #200 of 1963: -N. (streak) Mon 15 Apr 02 00:55
permalink #200 of 1963: -N. (streak) Mon 15 Apr 02 00:55
You know, I've often speculated that the problem we good liberals have is that we're far too easy to bait and distract. Just put up some completely outrageous proposal and we will happily work ourselves into a complete State decrying it with our well-written metaphors and historical analogies and so on. Meanwhile, the people working to screw us over are getting the real work done. Some might argue that it's due to our being too accustomed to the politics of victimhood, others might say that it's simply that we have an ideology other than making money, which functions as a big unprotected flank on which we can be poked to make us jump amusingly. Either way, we do tend to get terribly involved in and distracted by these near-absurdist shadow-puppet deals. An example would be right here in Oregon, where the anti-gay Oregon Citizen's Alliance has proposed their latest silly ballot initiative. Sure enough, all my friends are in a state of high dudgeon, apparently not noticing that this stupid initiative (or a close variant) gets defeated every election year, and is reproposed the next year. Prison population is rising, civil liberties are a memory, real wages for the bottom 99% continue to fall, but we're fighters for truth because we stopped ten Fundamentalists from making fools of themselves. Yay for us. </rant>
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