inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #176 of 1963: Adriana Roze (ariadne26) Fri 12 Apr 02 10:23
    
Well, Neil, which Endless are YOU?
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #177 of 1963: Bill^2 (billbill) Fri 12 Apr 02 10:53
    
Neil-- I've also offered to mirror for Jouni, and have shamelessly
stolen Tara's HTML files to speed up the transition. You can add
http://member.newsguy.com/~wjw52673/babycakes/ and
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/w.j.williams/babycakes/
to your list of mirror sites for his pictures. Hopefully between these
four sites we can keep them available.
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #178 of 1963: Tracey who wears black (jinx) Fri 12 Apr 02 10:54
    
Well I'm Death,....not to much of a shocker,...considering I normally
mostly wear black, amd am not Del-directed or totally morbid.

Mousie, you know me I'm not goth, but at work since I am not a
corporate fashion plate they tend to lump me in there. I was agast
reading the article, and can't help but wonder what the real problems
of the town are.
I was asked about this at work, by someone who wasn't being pleasent
about it, and after turning and very sweetly resonding, something about
his head,..his ass, and the ability to gather information that way, my
darling boyfriend rsaid "That's my little gothic princess" 

Tree,....bat pictures? Please??? Rob wants to visit,....thinking about
moving, any casinos around?

Neil, I second Adriana,....please?

Jinx trying the polite approach
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #179 of 1963: -N. (streak) Fri 12 Apr 02 11:33
    
        Jouni, liked the story a lot.  The artwork in particular was
gorgeous.  Great linework; reminded me of Jim Mahfood.  I think you
might have compressed it a little too much into six pages, though.  My
take on the story is that the justification should have a little more
space.  Great images, though.  Let us know if you do any similar work
in the future, I for one would love to see it.
        As to the silly legislation, sounds like another state-law tempest in
a teapot to me.  Downright amazing what sneaks past some state
legislatures.  Though if they were trying to combat goth poetry, I
might send a letter of support. :-)
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #180 of 1963: la belle dame avec squeaks (miss-mousey) Fri 12 Apr 02 16:28
    
<lioness> - I'd say I feel better after the rant, but the legislation
is still there and my friend still got dosed at the club last week. As
for winding me up, it's my own fault I forgot I have a relaxation yoga
tape specifically for times like this. (breathe in... and...
exhale....)

Neil - a CBLDF for goth culture *would* probably be pretty useful. 
And now I'm wondering if there are any lawyers who would take this up
as a cause...

Dan - Damnit, you've made me cross examine myself today - I'm still
howling mad about the whole goth culture slam and my poor friend, and
as a result I've chosen the stealth-garb (all black), the done up and
impractical (and slightly scary) hair, club make up, excessive rings,
and the New Rock boots. Tho' I'm more angry than depressed about the
state of the human condition... maybe I should listen to more Bauhaus
and Morrissey?

Jouni - I finally got it all - yay! It turned out so creepy! I love
it.

Oh, and since I've been dealing with it for the past two days,
nonstop, I'll post it here too. My friend was likely drugged with GHB
at the club last week. After consulting with various club security
people, I'm discovering that the problem is growing out of control. For
those who don't know about it, GHB is BAD stuff - slows your heart
rate, can induce coma and a slight case of death when mixed with
alcohol, is virtually undetectable by taste if dumped in a mixed drink
(especially if you're already a little toasted), and it's addictive.
It's the date rape drug of choice, and if you've been dosed, you tend
to forget what happened to you while you were dosed. If you go to clubs
at all, KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR DRINK! Security catches those they can,
but it's a hard thing to catch.

I encourage you to pass the message along to anyone you know who might
be affected.

squeaks, whose friend is fine now, but much more careful with her
drinks
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #181 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Fri 12 Apr 02 16:46
    
Squeaks,  remember how our government works, and take comfort in it.
$272,999.00 will most likely be spent on the local gov'm't's officials'
personal spending. Justified, of course. $1 will be spent on smilely
face stickers they'll have interns hand out.

Tara,  still want me to pick you up tomorrow?
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #182 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Fri 12 Apr 02 16:57
    
Maure: sent you email--sorry it took me so long! Forgot to take your
addy with me to work, 'cause, you know, I suck, and stuff...
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #183 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Fri 12 Apr 02 21:14
    
Squeaks,  very sorry about your friend. I always preferred being angry
to being depressed, myself. Your getup sounds kickass, though.

Tara, I never got it! Did I write it down correctly for you?
egregiousbalihoo@aol.com      or, because it's easier, hmaure@aol.com
I sent an email to your hotmail account - do you check that? I'll
email you my cell number.
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #184 of 1963: Linda Castellani (castle) Sat 13 Apr 02 09:15
    
E-mail from Gregory Osborne:

Hi. Just thought I'd poke my head back in and say
hello after an absence so long I am essentially a
stranger here.

I found the idea of a campaign to wipe out Goth
culture both sadly comic and deeply frightening in the
way that only such stupid, but palatable to the
ignorant ideas can be.

My immediate thoughts on reading the article were of
the Doctor Who story "The Happiness Patrol" which
involved colourfully-dressed death squads roaming the
streets hunting down anyone who exhibited signs of
unhappiness or discontent, and that next time anyone
schedules a Star Wars convention in Hannibal, the
Darth Vader impersonators had better look out. All
that dressing in dark clothes and thinking dark
thoughts will get them in trouble.

The whole thing would be funny if these people were
isolated cranks, but when they are civic authorities
and elected officials it becomes nightmarish.

The connection between the Columbine massacre and goth
culture is a lie that like all great lies, reverses
traditional perspective and grows larger the further
away it gets. It is becoming for conservative
juvenophobes, (is that a word? It is now,) what "The
Protocols of Sion" was, (and scarily still is in some
quarters,) to anti-semites. It was not true. It is not
true. It will not ever be true. But that doesn't stop
it being used as a justification for hatefullness.

I am not a goth, (and I know that the idea of me being
one is causing those of you who know me to dissolve
into fits of giggles about now,) but I do tend to wear
a lot of black. It is very slimming and it is easy to
colour co-ordinate. Sometimes I think dark thoughts.
This is because I have an IQ that is above room
temperature and I live in a world where bad things
sometimes happen and they must be faced rather than
swept under the carpet. A lot of the music I listen to
is never going to be played on easy listening radio
and a lot of the books I read weren't written by
Norman Vincent Peale.

But you know what? I still manage to be a functioning
member of society. Sometimes I'm a complete bastard
and you wouldn't want to know me, but most of the time
I am what is termed around my way as "a pretty good
bloke." 

What really worries me is that if I was a teenager and
lived in Hannibal Missouri, I would almost certainly
be considered "at risk".

At risk of what for gods' sakes? Of actually growing
up into someone who thinks for himself? Of suspecting
that there is more to life than making the team,
marrying a cheerleader and evolving into a good
consumer?

I don't know much about psychology, but I'm pretty
sure that the way to reach alienated teenagers is not
by treating them as potential mass-murderers.

I wonder what that town's most celebrated former
resident would have said about this policy. Perhaps
the writing was on the wall even then, since the Great
Man seems to have gotten out of the place as soon as
he could.

I know I'm ranting and I apologise, but it is
frustrating when people are being willfully stupid and
I can't even suggest that all right thinking people
boycott the town of Hannibal, since no-one would
really want to visit the place anyway.

I'll just go and punch the wall now.

Oh, and Tree, any time you want to challenge, I'm up
for a game of Trivial Pursuit. You forgot to mention
that "Sandy Stone" is the answer to 68% of the
Entertainment questions in the Australian edition.

And in case you've gotten this far Neil, thanks for
going out of your way to make me feel welcome at
Boskone and for introducing me to John Singer. I feel
like I am in the loop somehow now.:-)

I think I should also point out to those who might
want to try that Neil seems completely immune to the
lure of the Tim Tam. After having Charles Vess and
Emma Bull stealing them off me all weekend, I was
somewhat taken aback when the only person I actually
offered one to declined. I have my own theories on why
he resists, but I am sorry that I didn't have a spare
pack to send home for those members of his household
who aren't quite so restrained. 

Reg(who almost has his credit card debt under control
again and will soon be ready to get a Well account
again)
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #185 of 1963: Mary Roane (the-roane) Sat 13 Apr 02 22:57
    
Um, hi!

Just back from Horrorcon.  Was lovely.  I am so tired my eyelashes
hurt, but just wanted to say--

Maure is so cool, ice does not melt in her drink.  Tara's definitely
keeping her, and I get to take her for walkies!

And Neil--you so totally rock for introducing all of us.  Thanks
again!  

Gene Wolfe is lovely, and Gahan Wilson is hilarious.  And Caitlin
Kiernan's next book is going to rock out loud!  Maddy Gaiman is
absolutely precious.  And Neil makes a very nice Reverend......

OK, I'm raving.  Must get sleep.....        
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #186 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 01:37
    
I had the bestest week-end! The fabulous Maure just dropped me off--we
had a driving adventure, as we missed my street because I am dumber
than toast, and then we even saw a hooker! She had shiny boots. Maure
dropped me at home, and is now going to go home and be attacked by her
cats. I am going to go to sleep so I can be (slightly) rested when the
Backflip Boy arrives tomorrow. Hugs to all! More coherant recap of
events will be forthcoming, after I have slept.
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #187 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 03:27
    
Mary, you're a doll!

I'll chime in too . . .

got home about an hour ago. The drive was marvelous. It's still mostly
dark but the birds are up and singing loudly. Was thinking of letting
Kira out for a while to quiet said birds. She was not interested - she
didn't want to have to catch her food.

I got to meet Lorraine today, and she signed my liner notes. I was
happy!

Gene Wolfe's radio play was magnificent. I absolutely loved it. I love
hearing stories read that way.

After balking about asking Gene Wolfe to sign my books (or rather,
balking at talking to him altogether), Tara helped me. Mr. Wolfe asked
me, if I were like this with him, how was I going to be with Neil
Gaiman? heehee - 

I have a script.

Neil,  I don't know whether or not I'll see you tomorrow, so I must
thank you very much for introducing me to Mary and Tara. They are
wonderfully funny and sweet, and Tara has even promised me a water
bottle for the side of my cage! If she ever lets me out again, I might
get a chance to ask you to sign the books I bought today. You're
lovely. I hope you get some rest.

Tara,  sleep, sleep . . . qu'est-que ce? I heard a myth about such a
thing, once.
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #188 of 1963: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Sun 14 Apr 02 07:04
    
(I didn't do much -- when I realised that Maure didn't know/hadn't met
the Unusual Suspects [Mary, Tara, Debbie&Chris] I made sure that she
was introduced.)

Tried hard to get Maddy and Lorraine's ticket changed so they got to
be here more of Sunday, but it would have cost $1000 a ticket to change
them. so they've gone back already. Pity -- Maddy seemed to be
enjoying herself more than any 7 year old girl at a horror con had any
right to. She too liked the radio play of Gene's THE TREE IS MY HAT. "I
liked the scream best," she said.
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #189 of 1963: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Sun 14 Apr 02 07:07
    
Reg -- I've got some very funny e-mails from goths, and a concerned
e-mail from someone convinced I should put something up on the blogger
imploring people not to overreact and do anything foolish.
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #190 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 09:40
    
Neil,  oh, I'm sorry that they left. I saw Maddy playing tag or chase
outside the ballrooms with many adults - and she was too fast for all
of them. Maddy is a very interesting and unusual name.
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #191 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:35
    <scribbled by uisgejack>
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #192 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:38
    
Debbie,  now that I've confirmed you are lurking, I also was so happy
to meet you, and the coolest 12 year old ever <tm>. 

Teri,  I hope I'm spelling your name correctly, it was also delightful
to meet you. I learned later that you took a writing workshop with my
friend Holly, whom I met at a writing workshop, too. Weird, isn't it?
You don't have to answer, I'll just imagine you said, "Yes, Maure,
that's very strange!"

Neil,  you may not think it was much, but you have to admit that you
did put forth some effort. I'd never seen you move so fast.
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #193 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:39
    <scribbled by uisgejack>
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #194 of 1963: Tara O'Shea (uisgejack) Sun 14 Apr 02 10:41
    
RIGHT. so, not allowed to post without caffeine first... My cutting
and pasting abilities? Impaired.


Neil: yay! now we just need to figure out which of us is Kaiser Soze.

Maure: I hear it's a derivative of Madeleine ... Tho the Elvira part
is still my fave.

Most everybody: Okay, thought about this rather a lot over the
week-end, and here was what I was thinking... I know a while back we
had talked about Well topic t-shirts, as a good way to recognise one
another at signings and get togethers and cons and so on, and I am
still mad keen on the idea. So here is my thought:

1. We have a contest for best design and tag line (or designs), and
then pick the one we like bestest 

2. We get shirts and other swag made at cafepress.com (which is
POD--print on demand) and take a look at the pricing structure and
figure out what they could cost that would ensure profits that can be
donated to the CBLDF. Or if someone else has an in with a printer, we
can go with them--I just figured POD would be easier.

3. We can do this every time we have a topic change, even...

Thingies (them what come from alt.fan.thingie) have their own pretty
autonomous community, and rather than being a general Neil fan thing,
it really ought be just a Well thing. Love Thingies, don't get me
wrong, but this would be a heck of a lot easier than standing on a
chair and yelling "Hey! Anyone here from the Well?" at events. And I
bet lurkers would love 'em too. Right, all you lurkers?

[...]

So, anyway, to this end, I am more than happy to set up a mini-site
for the designs to live, and once I get my new (used) scanner next
week, I can scan in designs for folks what wish to submit designs but
have no access to a scanner.

Whatcha think?
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #195 of 1963: Patricia Clarkson (pclarkson) Sun 14 Apr 02 12:49
    
Tara-- As I am usually in lurker-mode, it may qualify me to say that I
would love 'em........                                       pc
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #196 of 1963: Dan Wilson (stagewalker) Sun 14 Apr 02 13:14
    
Squeaks - shit like that makes me want to go vigilante... (rest of
post deleted due to endless string of pointless obscenities that while
cathartic, don't do anything to help the situation or raise awareness).
I hope, however, that anyone who is caught poisoning a drink in a culb
is force fed the drink and tied to a lamppost with a sign stuck on
them advertising them as the sick, inhuman, rapist scumbags that they
are. I'm sure when they wake up, they'll put two and two together as to
what happened to THEM the previous night.

Mary - Neil makes a very nice Reverend? Um... Neil?

Sounds like y'all had a fabulous time at HorrorCon... makes me wish I
could have come out for it... ah well. 
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #197 of 1963: la belle dame avec squeaks (miss-mousey) Sun 14 Apr 02 13:24
    
Typing on the stupid bitty keyboard on the new (used) laptop (the
other is dead, after happily bragging about it being 4 years old and
never causing me problems) because said new (used) laptop is not
recognizing a perfectly useable plug and play keyboard... 

Any way...

re: goth bashing - Woke up this morning with two things in my head: 1)
What *was* Scary Sherri's last name from the Zone? (this does not
apply to anything here, it's just the first thing in my head) and 2)
The Mob Song from Beauty and the Beast. I was just finding it funny
that many of the people who are trying to combat goth culture are the
same ones who were rooting for the misunderstood and slightly scary
beast, booing the mob. Meanwhile, in the real world, they are the mob
("We don't like if we don't understand it and it scares us. And this
monster is mysterious at least. Grab your guns. Grab your knives. Save
your children and your wives..." yada yada yada...) It actually made me
laugh. Then it made me want to watch Beauty and the Beast instead of
doing the dishes.

Maure/Tara/Mary - wishing I could have been there. I keep telling
myself World Fantasy Con isn't *that* far away... and then I look at a
calendar. hrm.

shirts = good. General design that can be put onto a shirt or made
into patches that I can decorate something I'm more likely to wear
(like my favourite boring sweatshirt) might be better. But then, I tend
not to wear t-shirts, despite my abundance of them. Just my $0.02.

Hey! Dan slipped! But if they made the druggers take their own GHB,
they'd probably just go and die, or at the very least they'd likely not
remember the incident, and then how would they ever learn? I only said
anything to let people know that it could happen (it does happen), and
that watching your drink will help prevent it. Catching the buggers is
VERY difficult. 

squeaks, who is being awfully wordy for someone who hates typing on
this keyboard! I must really hate dishes more than I realized.
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #198 of 1963: Tree--"Black, black, the gulls pecked out my eyes!" (jinx) Sun 14 Apr 02 19:05
    
On all things gothy--I'm just a pretendy-goth, but, like Our Lady of
the Squeeks, I never have a problem going to goth clubs. It's the
regular clubs that are full of arseholes and morons.

What people tend to forget is that these are communities. Goths and
other sub-cultures like them become communities because they are
persecuted by others. This creates a network of people who can support
you when you need it. I've been part of many communities like this,
online and off, and I can tell you, they have been lifesavers.

That is the part that these pointy headed gits in government don't
see. They just see the kids who don't want to be Britney Speares or a
member of Nsync and say, "Ooooh, bad!"

There is enough grief around without losing the support of your
community as well.

Ack.

This all sounded better in my head. Here, come into my head where the
ideas are clear and succinct and witty. Sigh.

Maure/Tara/Mary/et al, you have no idea how jealous we all are of you.
You sound like you are having/have had the bestest fun.

Reg--I'll have to get you and my boy teamed up for Trivial Pursuit. He
can't seem to beat me any other way. Mind you, he partnered up with
Linz's boy and still couldn't beat me...

Tree
Who hopes the local council doesn't bust the glamour goth birthday
party she is throwing weekend after next. "But officer, we WERE having
a good time! Really!"
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #199 of 1963: Maure Luke (maureluke) Sun 14 Apr 02 21:24
    
everyone,  HorrorCon was the loveliest weekend. I've been so twisted
up at work that I needed something nice and good and fascinating. And
now I am happy to go back to my kids and tell them all about the
creepiest, most ominous chapter of a book I've ever heard read aloud,
and they will all write down the book's name, and will make their
parents buy it for them when it comes out. And then I'll tell them
about the chapter of Coraline Neil read, and will tell them to buy that
too. 

 . . . but I suppose some parents would complain about my recommending
Low Red Moon to 11 year olds, so maybe I'll just tell them about the
chapter of Coraline. Which really is the scariest chapter I've ever
heard read aloud. This is going to be a knockout book. 

Squeaks,  it's not that far away, at all. It's right around the
corner. Really, it is.
  
inkwell.vue.144 : Neil Gaiman's Goldfish Swapmeet
permalink #200 of 1963: -N. (streak) Mon 15 Apr 02 00:55
    
        You know, I've often speculated that the problem we good liberals
have is that we're far too easy to bait and distract.  Just put up some
completely outrageous proposal and we will happily work ourselves into
a complete State decrying it with our well-written metaphors and
historical analogies and so on.  Meanwhile, the people working to screw
us over are getting the real work done.  Some might argue that it's
due to our being too accustomed to the politics of victimhood, others
might say that it's simply that we have an ideology other than making
money, which functions as a big unprotected flank on which we can be
poked to make us jump amusingly.  Either way, we do tend to get
terribly involved in and distracted by these near-absurdist
shadow-puppet deals.  An example would be right here in Oregon, where
the anti-gay Oregon Citizen's Alliance has proposed their latest silly
ballot initiative.  Sure enough, all my friends are in a state of high
dudgeon, apparently not noticing that this stupid initiative (or a
close variant) gets defeated every election year, and is reproposed the
next year.  Prison population is rising, civil liberties are a memory,
real wages for the bottom 99% continue to fall, but we're fighters for
truth because we stopped ten Fundamentalists from making fools of
themselves.  Yay for us. </rant>
  

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