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permalink #126 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Fri 4 Oct 02 17:01
permalink #126 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Fri 4 Oct 02 17:01
Rik, I believe the Sunshine Company's female singer, at least on their recordings, was Mary Nance. I don't know what happened to her after the band folded. Was Kathy Smith ever in the Sunshine Company? I'm not familiar with the name. I interviewed Larry Murray, the main singer-songwriter in Hearts and Flowers, at length. I just did the notes for a double-CD Hearts and Flowers collection, including both of their late-1960s albums and a dozen previously unreleased outtakes, that will be coming out on Collectors' Choice Music this month. The title is "The Complete Hearts and Flowers Collection." For those not familiar with the band, Hearts and Flowers did a couple of good country-folk-rock LPs for Capitol in 1967-68, a bit in advance of the first big wave of country-rock. They frequently used autoharp and combined original material with imaginative covers of songs by the likes of Donovan, Hoyt Axton, Tim Hardin, and Goffin-King. If they're mentioned at all, it's usually because Bernie Leadon was a member on the second LP, years before joining the Eagles. To my knowledge all the Hearts and Flowers members are alive and in good health; Murray and Rick Cunha still live in L.A. Larry Murray said there might be a low-key reunion of the early-60s bluegrass band he was in, the Scottsville Squirrel Barkers, which also included Leadon and Chris Hillman.
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Richie Unterberger, "Turn! Turn! Turn!"
permalink #127 of 288: Gary Lambert (almanac) Fri 4 Oct 02 17:52
permalink #127 of 288: Gary Lambert (almanac) Fri 4 Oct 02 17:52
Kathy Smith did record a couple of albums for Richie Havens' Stormy Forest label in the early 70s, with pretty interesting personnel: Colin Walcott, Tony Levin, Jan Hammer, Artie Traum and Jeremy Steig were among the players who appeared on either or both albums. I have heard conflicting stories that this Kathy Smith was or wasn't the same Kathy Smith who allegedly administered the fatal speedball to John Belushi.
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permalink #128 of 288: "First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Fri 4 Oct 02 18:13
permalink #128 of 288: "First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Fri 4 Oct 02 18:13
Mary nance sounds familiar, but I'm fairly cedrtain Kathy was the first lead singer. We purists were appalled at how they changed Steve's song. Steve, quite happy to have a charting record to his credit, was more forgiving. If I'd known how famous all my friends were going to be, I'd have paid more attention and maybe cut back on the drugs. Nah, I'd just have paid better attention. There was a little coffeehouse/pizza parlor in a mall in Tustin called the Paradox where I went to try out my newfound guitar skills at their Tuesday night open mic. When I went into the back room to unpack, Kathy came up, welcomed me, and introduced me around... to Tim Buckley, Jackson, Steve Noonan, the entire Dirt Band, including Jack's replacement, John McEuen, and a girl named Penny Nichols, who floored me, but got lost in record biz shuffle. Jose Feliciano showed up to do a set a bit later on, as did this wierd little bugger leading an outfit called Dr, West's Medicine Show and Junk Band, who did what later became a minor hit, "The Eggplant That Ate Chicago". Over the next few months, Brewer and Shipley became regulars, too. It was an amazing scene, but nobody found out about it but the regulars and the club folded. We all headed north to the Troubadour for a new hangout. Richie, you've stirred up memories of one of the most exciting periods of my life. Thanks much, and I'm sure I'll enjoy this book I just bought.
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permalink #129 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Fri 4 Oct 02 19:21
permalink #129 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Fri 4 Oct 02 19:21
The weird little bugger leading Dr. West's Medicine Show and Junk Band was Norman Greenbaum, who quickly went through his own jug band to folk-rock-psychedelic transition by the time of that band's later recordings. Later, though, he went solo and became *really* well known with his 1970 hit single "Spirit in the Sky." As a solo artist, he was produced by Erik Jacobsen, who had produced the Lovin' Spoonful and Tim Hardin. I was just able to hear Penny Nichols's obscure late-'60s album ("Penny's Arcade") last month. It's more promise than brilliance, but it's an interesting record kind of on the cusp between the folk-rock and singer-songwriter era, with some unexpected touches of jazz, psychedelic, country, and trippy lyrics. I did liner notes for the Sunshine Company CD compilation "The Best of the Sunshine Company" (Collectors' Choice Music). For that Steve Gillette talked with me about the Sunshine Company's cover of "Back on the Street Again": "I had broken up with the first real love of my life, and had written most of the song. I was home for the Christmas holidays, 1966, when John [Bettis] and Maury [Manseau] came in to hear me, and I sang 'Back on the Street Again' for them. As far as I know they had no tape, probably not even any written notes. It wasn't until later that I finalized the bridge. The version they recorded was based on partial memory and, I'm sure, some improvisation, aided by the amazing arrangement George Tipton did. I loved everything about it."
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permalink #130 of 288: "First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Fri 4 Oct 02 19:50
permalink #130 of 288: "First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Fri 4 Oct 02 19:50
Gary, that was not the same Kathy Smith. Definitely, and no shit. The bridge to "Back on the Street Again" was our big bitch. We thought Steve's scanned better, but now that I know that the Sunshine Company never heard it, it all makes sense. John and Maury were a dynamite duo in their own right, BTW. Their voices fit perfectly, and they just exuded music. I'm not surprised they memorized the tune on one pass. John wrote "Slowhand" which was a hit for the Pointer Sisters. How did Ian and Sylvia like the serious re-arrangement the Wee Five did to "You Were On My Mind"?
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permalink #131 of 288: Gary Lambert (almanac) Fri 4 Oct 02 19:57
permalink #131 of 288: Gary Lambert (almanac) Fri 4 Oct 02 19:57
>Gary, that was not the same Kathy Smith. I didn't think so, but I know people who insisted that it is.
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permalink #132 of 288: "First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Fri 4 Oct 02 20:30
permalink #132 of 288: "First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Fri 4 Oct 02 20:30
The pictures don't look like her. God, I hope it wasn't. Kathy was the first person i ever heard use the term "Love Generation", and she was housemother to the bunch of us. And she had this 100 megawatt smile. I wondered, at the time, if that had been her, but I couldn't find anything of the Kathy I knew, except for the hair color, in the news photos. Oh man. I hope that wasn't her.
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permalink #133 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Fri 4 Oct 02 21:34
permalink #133 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Fri 4 Oct 02 21:34
Here's what Sylvia Tyson, author of "You Were on My Mind," had to say to me about cover versions by the We Five and others: Q: Was it a surprise to you that "You Were on My Mind" was covered by the We Five for a big pop hit? ST: Quite a surprise. It was actually a hit before I knew about it. We were on the road in California. We were driving down Highway 101 (laughs), and turned on the radio, and there it was, by god. Q: Do you know what channels the song passed through to get to the We Five? ST: I think they had our albums. I don't think it was a publisher or a third party. But I may be wrong on that. Q: What did you think of their version? ST: I wasn't that thrilled with how they changed the lyrics. But I certainly knew the limitations of pop radio in those days, and that the lyrics "I got drunk and I got sick" probably wouldn't pass muster (chuckles). Q: I think your version had a much more gospel, bluesy feeling. ST: Well, it definitely was gospel-influenced. Q: Did you ever hear the version that became the hit in England, by Crispian St. Peters? ST: I did hear it, ages and ages ago. The thing that really pissed me off was that he put his name on it. He claimed he'd written it. Q: Did he get any of the publishing money, or did that get straightened out? ST: I think it got straightened out pretty quickly, but I thought it was pretty stupid on his part. Q: It's a really odd version -- very slow and lugubrious. ST: We did have an odd experience with it. When Ian and I did a tour in England with Gordon Lightfoot, with the Ian Campbell folk group, oh gosh, who else -- I can't remember who all was on that tour. But we toured England and Scotland. And it was just after the point when Crispian St. Peters had had a hit with that song. And we were doing that song as a regular part of our show, and of course, the folk Nazis in the audience (laughs) just started booing and hissing and carrying on. But the good news is, that there was a group out of Spain called the Barracudas who did it, and had a huge hit with it in Europe. Q: Did they translate it into Spanish? ST: Spanish and Italian, yeah. And it continues to make me money from Spain and Italy (laughs).
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permalink #134 of 288: "First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Fri 4 Oct 02 21:54
permalink #134 of 288: "First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Fri 4 Oct 02 21:54
God, she takes no prisoners, does she? They were onstage at the Golden Bear one night and she walked up to the mic between songs and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it is to sing with someone you're not talking to?" Since Mike Stewart, of the We Five, is John Stewart's little brother, he probably took the song right off an Ian and Sylvia album. The guitarist, Bob Jones, became a very funky drummer and was part of a Stax/Volt style band up here in the Bay Area called Southern Comfort. He and Karl Severeid played behind Alice Stuart in the local clubs, too.
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permalink #135 of 288: John Ross (johnross) Fri 4 Oct 02 23:06
permalink #135 of 288: John Ross (johnross) Fri 4 Oct 02 23:06
I remember being amazed by that Penny Nichols LP. It was on Buddah, which specialized in Bubble gum music, and the cover has this huge head shot of a blonde girl who looked like she might have been the inspiration for a Beach Boys song. Knowing nothing of her connection to the Orange County scene (this was in Cambridge, at WTBS), we just assumed this was nothing special. But then somebody listened to the record...and we decided it was a hidden treasure. A quick web serach says she did a lot of backup singing through the 70s and 80s, and got a PhD from the Harvard School of Education. She also made a bunch of vocal instruction tapes for Happy Traum's Homespun Tapes. Which brings up another interesting name. Happy was another old New York folkie who moved in a couple of directions--his solo albums are among the purest folksinging I can think of on record, but the work he did with his brother Artie, including the two Capitol Happy and Artie Traum albums and the later Mud Acres records on Rounder are straight-ahead folk-rock. You mention his work with the New World Singers in the book (as one of the first to record Dylan's songs), but do you have an opinion about his later work? Never had a hit single, but the albums were mainstays of progressive FM stations.
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permalink #136 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Sat 5 Oct 02 07:38
permalink #136 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Sat 5 Oct 02 07:38
I couldn't find the two Capitol albums by the Traums anywhere. That's one disadvantage of being born in 1962 and doing a book like this. I've found a great many obscure 1960s albums that I wanted to hear over the course of the last twenty years, for research and pleasure, but not those. Happy and Artie Traum, incidentally, had some other peripheral roles in folk-rock. They were in a mid-1960s rock band called Children of Paradise that had a single on Columbia Records (I couldn't find *that* one anywhere). That band also included Eric Kaz and Marc Silber, and for a time future Blood, Sweat & Tears drummer Bobby Columby. Happy admitted to me that electric guitar folk-rock wasn't his forte, though he didn't object to it per se. Silber told me, "Happy never was into playing electric and I could never get him to change any settings on his amp!" Artie Traum was briefly in an early version of the Blues Project, though he doesn't appear on any of their records. Happy Traum was also editor of Sing Out in the late 1960s; he helped do that magazine's famous 1968 interview with Bob Dylan. Plus he wrote a big piece for Rolling Stone in May 1969 that was one of the first big features to intelligently discuss the early singer-songwriter movement. And he played on some Bob Dylan tracks in the early 1970s, like the single "Watching the River Flow" and "When I Paint My Masterpiece."
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permalink #137 of 288: Berliner (captward) Sat 5 Oct 02 07:40
permalink #137 of 288: Berliner (captward) Sat 5 Oct 02 07:40
Seems to me the Traum Brothers' first Capitol album was from the mid-'70s, although I could be wrong. If the University of Texas would finish (or start) cataloguing all that vinyl I gave them...
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permalink #138 of 288: John Ross (johnross) Sat 5 Oct 02 10:50
permalink #138 of 288: John Ross (johnross) Sat 5 Oct 02 10:50
The first H&A Lp was issued in 1969, the second a year or two later. They have been reissued as a double-CD by Vivid music in Japan (VSCD-534). Seems to be available online from Neotlith Records. http://www.neolithrecords.com/happy-artie.html
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permalink #139 of 288: Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Sat 5 Oct 02 12:05
permalink #139 of 288: Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Sat 5 Oct 02 12:05
I remember picking up a couple of Happy Traum "finger-style" guitar books (used for .50 each at Logos bookstore in Santa Cruz in 1973) that included plastic instructional records. There was great style and precision happening there. In the early days of folk-rock, though, instrumental precision did not seem to be a major priority. And a number of players learned instruments "on the job" (e.g. Chris Hillman, an accomplished mandolin player, switching to bass in the Byrds; Michael Clarke, who "looked like a drummer," learning the instrument from scratch during the Byrds' infancy; Al Kooper, just getting his sea legs on keyboards, grabbing Dylan's attention with simple patterns on "Like A Rolling Stone;" and later, Neil Young using guitarist Nils Lofgren on piano for his "After the Goldrush" sessions). I'm curious, Richie, why do you think there was so much of this "feel approach" to folk-rock instrumentation going on?
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permalink #140 of 288: "First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Sat 5 Oct 02 13:12
permalink #140 of 288: "First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Sat 5 Oct 02 13:12
Happy's books have become a big business. http://www.homespuntapes.com/ He and Stefan Grossman have done very well in the instructional materials biz.
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permalink #141 of 288: John Ross (johnross) Sat 5 Oct 02 14:35
permalink #141 of 288: John Ross (johnross) Sat 5 Oct 02 14:35
Did you ever come across a 1964 Prestige LP by The Folk Stringers? It's another of those early conglomerations of New York session musicians, but the leads are Barry Kornfield and Danny Kalb, so it could count as a precursor to The Blues Project. Others on the date include Artie Rose on mandolin, Ann Charters on Piano, and Bill Lee on bass. My copy has the price written in the lower right corner of the back, so it appears that I must have bought it at Sam Goody's for $1.49. Another really odd one on my shelf is "Railroad Bill" by the Homesteaders on Riverside. It's one of those generic mixed folk quartets, but the liner notes don't identify any of the singers. It does have a note from Bobby Darin. One of those things you'd never look at twice. But one of the voices is unmistakable: it's Judy Collins (who has since confirmed that yes indeed, she is on that record).
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permalink #142 of 288: John Ross (johnross) Sat 5 Oct 02 14:47
permalink #142 of 288: John Ross (johnross) Sat 5 Oct 02 14:47
>the leads are Barry Kornfield and Danny Kalb, so it could count as a precursor to The Blues Project No it couldn't. Kornfeld is on a lot of records, but he wasn't part of the BP. My mistake.
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permalink #143 of 288: Gary Lambert (almanac) Sat 5 Oct 02 16:31
permalink #143 of 288: Gary Lambert (almanac) Sat 5 Oct 02 16:31
>Artie Traum was briefly in an early version of the Blues Project I think this was before Al Kooper joined, when they were still called the Danny Kalb Quartet. Steve Katz came in as a temporary sub for Artie, who decided not to come back. Both of the Traums' Captiol albums are terrific, and very worthy of CD reissue. Around the time of those records, the Traums started gigging, revue-style, with a loose confederation of their buddies from the Woodstock folk-rock mafia, which included, at various times, luminaries such as Maria Muldaur, John Herald, Jim Rooney, Bill Keith, John Sebastian, Eric Andersen, Eric Kaz, Paul Butterfield and various others. Known variously as Mud Acres or the Woodstock Mountains Revue, they released several excellent albums on Rounder. I saw them do a wonderful sprawling mess of a show at Washington Square Church sometime around '72 -- it went on for more than four hours, and nobody in the building wanted it to ever end. Bob Dylan, who hung out with the Traums and a lot of their co- conspirators quite a bit in the early 70s, is said to have been inspired to do the Rolling Thunder Revue, in part, by the example of the Mud Acres bunch.
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permalink #144 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Sat 5 Oct 02 21:13
permalink #144 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Sat 5 Oct 02 21:13
As to why there was such a "feel" approach to early folk-rock, in many cases it was indeed because the players were just learning their instruments. Even when they were playing the *same* instruments as they were playing as folk musicians (most often the guitar), they had to make a big adjustment to using electric, amplified instruments. Even as an amateur guitarist, I know there's a huge difference between playing on acoustics and electrics -- not just in playing different instruments, but also learning to explore and control all the differences in volume and textures that are possible with electric guitars and amplifiers. Also the very quickness of it all meant that some instrumentalists wound up having to learn entirely new instruments very quickly. Chris Hillman learning bass and Michael Clarke drums with the Byrds are the best-known examples, but there's also Skip Spence being appointed drummer of the early Jefferson Airplane just because Marty Balin thought he looked like a drummer. Spence was really a guitarist, and that's what he switched back to shortly afterward when he left the Airplane and joined Moby Grape. Al Kooper was more of a guitarist when he started playing with Dylan, but it was the vacant organ that gave him his window of opportunity at the session for "Like a Rolling Stone," and he grabbed it. As he's recounted, he was invited to the session purely as an observer-friend by producer Tom Wilson, and actually brought along his guitar hoping to have a chance to impress his way onto the session, but gave up on that idea when he started to hear Mike Bloomfield play. And ironically, because of his work with Dylan, Kooper began to make his name in the business as a keyboardist (primarily as an organist), not a guitarist, though he was new to the instrument. But because he was *new* to it didn't mean he wasn't *good* at it. He had a very distinctive sound, on sessions and with the Blues Project, perhaps in part because as a novice he wasn't afraid to experiment with electric keyboards in ways that more established players might not have thought of or might have considered crude. Folk-rock was really made up as it went along, particularly in the first couple of years in the mid-1960s. That's why on many early folk-rock records you hear a kind of tentativeness in the guitar picking and riffs, almost as if the players are reluctant to go to hard or too fast for fear of busting strings or blowing out an amplifier. Actually this can work to the music's advantage: the characteristic "jingle-jangle" early folk-rock guitar sound is a combination of delicate folk picking and 12-string textures with electric resonance and chime. As the players got more comfortable and accomplished on their instruments -- Stephen Stills with Buffalo Springfield seems a good example to me -- they sounded more and more like rock players with folk influences, rather than folk musicians adapting to rock music.
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permalink #145 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Sat 5 Oct 02 21:20
permalink #145 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Sat 5 Oct 02 21:20
I've never seen the Folk Stringers Prestige LP, though I have a cut of theirs on a compiation. Danny Kalb and Artie Traum also contributed to some other obscure early Prestige sessions; they both played on cuts credited to "the True Endeavor Jug Band," and Danny Kalb was part of "the New Strangers." I've never heard the Homesteaders either. There's a lot of stuff in the Prestige catalog that hasn't come out on CD.
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permalink #146 of 288: John Ross (johnross) Sat 5 Oct 02 21:45
permalink #146 of 288: John Ross (johnross) Sat 5 Oct 02 21:45
The Homesteaders was on Riverside, not Prestige. Both labels are now owned by Fantasy, who are extremely tight-fisted about licensing their old catalog. Probably makes sense with things like the van Gelder jazz albums of the fifties and sixties that must be cash cows for Fantasy, but they're never going to resissue the Riverside folk stuff that Kenny Goldstein made before the Folk Scare--things like Ray Boguslav's "Songs From a Village Garrett". The early Prestige folk stuff (before Paul Rothchild went to work for them) has similar stuff like "The Art of the Concertina". I've approached them about the nine-LP set of Child Ballads sung by Ewan MacColl and Bert Lloyd, but they don't answer my letters or return my phone calls. I suspect that the True Endeavor Jug Band as assembled for that record, as part of the jug band craze that lasted for about a year, after the Kweskin albums on Vanguard started selling--the Even Dozens on Elektra, and Dave van Ronk's Ragtime Jug Stompers on Mercury showed up around the same time. And RCA did a reissue of original jug band 78s in their vintage series that includes many of the sources of the Kweskins' repertoire.
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permalink #147 of 288: Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Sun 6 Oct 02 07:21
permalink #147 of 288: Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Sun 6 Oct 02 07:21
>As the players got more comfortable and accomplished on their instruments -- Stephen Stills with Buffalo Springfield seems a good example to me -- they sounded more and more like rock players with folk influences, rather than folk musicians adapting to rock music.<< That's a good point, Richie. Dubbed "Captain Manyhands" by Graham Nash during the making of the first CSN album, Stills could literally play every instrument -- including drums and bass. In the Springfield, Stills came into the group with strong folk chops, rooting most of his songs with acoustic guitar picking patterns. As he became more accomplished on electric rock guitar, he melded the two styles together, most powerfully on "Bluebird." Later, though, in CSN, solo, and with Manassas (his vastly underated band, featuring Chris Hillman), Stills would often divide his music into "acoustic" and "electric" songs, furher adding elements of blues, Latin, jazz and even Indian music into his stylings (cue the middle instrumental section of "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes") to both. Probably my favorite Stills vocal during his "early years" was his lead vocal on the Au Go Go Singers' cover of Judy Henske's "High Flying Bird." I've heard other versions of the song (including the Airplane's), but, for my money, they never matched Stills's.
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permalink #148 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Sun 6 Oct 02 08:41
permalink #148 of 288: Richie Unterberger (folkrocks) Sun 6 Oct 02 08:41
Stills's vocal on the Au Go Go Singers' "High Flying Bird" is the only notable song on that 1964 album, and the only strong aural evidence of his pre-Buffalo Springfield talents. The glee club background vocals really diminish the track's impact, though, in a contrast that has to be heard to be believed.
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permalink #149 of 288: Kurt Sigmon (kd-scigmon) Sun 6 Oct 02 14:08
permalink #149 of 288: Kurt Sigmon (kd-scigmon) Sun 6 Oct 02 14:08
This has been a truly wonderful retrospective of my musical past - thanks to all who contributed, especially to Richie - I am loving the book. I'll put in a word for Kaleidoscope, which included Dave Lindley and Chris Darrow. An amazing amalgam of folk, rock, old-timey, middle eastern, and general psychedelia.
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permalink #150 of 288: Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Sun 6 Oct 02 14:30
permalink #150 of 288: Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Sun 6 Oct 02 14:30
>Stills's vocal on the Au Go Go Singers' "High Flying Bird" is the only notable song on that 1964 album, and the only strong aural evidence of his pre-Buffalo Springfield talents.<< Agree completely, Richie. The gravel and honey quality of Stills's vocal still raises goose bumps. The rest of the album, as you point out, does not stand up to repeated listenings, though "San Francisco Bay Blues" (I think that's the name of it) is interesting. As for "High Flying Bird's" writer, Judy Henske ... why do you think she never really experienced broad success?
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