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permalink #101 of 301: who? me? (stet) Wed 11 Dec 02 08:50
permalink #101 of 301: who? me? (stet) Wed 11 Dec 02 08:50
Checking in here a little belatedly after looking through the book. Paul, way back in the '60s, after a court ruling on pornography and "redeeming social value," you wrote the wonderful line (which I'm likely misquoting slightly. "In this society," you said, "appeal to prurient interest is itself a redeeming social value." Revisiting that time and this - how do you feel in retrospect about the development of a gigantic industrialized sex industry that's grown up since the 60s? Does the grown-up look different from the child?
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permalink #102 of 301: David Gans (tnf) Wed 11 Dec 02 09:06
permalink #102 of 301: David Gans (tnf) Wed 11 Dec 02 09:06
Chuck, thamls for <98>. Signed, poor typist.
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permalink #103 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 09:46
permalink #103 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 09:46
Who, Me?--Everything evolves, including the co-option of progress. In one of the pieces in my book, a report on the Swingers Convention, I recall a Sexual Freedom League party in San Francisco on 12/31/66, and ask a rhetorical question: Who would've thought that some day it would become an industry. But that's the risk of evolution, ain't it?
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permalink #104 of 301: excessively heterosexual (saiyuk) Wed 11 Dec 02 13:19
permalink #104 of 301: excessively heterosexual (saiyuk) Wed 11 Dec 02 13:19
Dear Paul, Bear with me. Once upon a time, a close friend insisted to me that Ry Cooder had slipped my name into a song. Though the context would have made sense, it struck me as highly unlikely, since Mr. Cooder and I had only one tenuous mutual-friend connection. But I even briefly considered the possibility, which in itself was borderline insane, I think. I eventually dug up a Mills Brothers recording of the same song, made when I was about three, and heard the same phrase, enunciated more clearly -- "in any clime," not "and Andy Klein." This was, of course, both disappointing and reassuring. No, he wasn't singing my praises to a national audience, but he also wasn't sending a "kill" directive to the secret government ninja assassins. So: I was lying in bed last night about 4 AM reading *Murder at the Conspiracy Convention*'s title essay and vacillating madly between utter paranoia and mocking disbelief. "Hmmm...I could believe *that* one!" vs. "Oh, man, some of these people are plain fucking nuts! I was never *that* crazy!" And then I see my name about half a page from the end of this 47-page essay. Not referring to me. But still: Four in the morning...musing about paranoia...remembering the sixties/(early)-seventies...AND THEN MY OWN NAME POPS UP AT ME??? Okay, I know my name is reasonably common and all, but... So, do *all* of the copies say "Andy Klein" at that point? Or is there some sort of fantasy-novel spell (or secret government cyber device) that figures out who is reading the book at any given point and somehow INSERTS THEIR NAME IN THE TEXT? Not that I want to seem paranoid, but... WHO IS PAYING YOU, KRASSNER? AND HOW MUCH?
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permalink #105 of 301: who? me? (stet) Wed 11 Dec 02 13:28
permalink #105 of 301: who? me? (stet) Wed 11 Dec 02 13:28
>But that's the risk of evolution, ain't it? Absolutely. I was just wondering how you felt about it -- about the respective ugliness of repression and expression.
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permalink #106 of 301: the newly locked-down Table Talk (silly) Wed 11 Dec 02 13:35
permalink #106 of 301: the newly locked-down Table Talk (silly) Wed 11 Dec 02 13:35
<vard>, you got me to thinking. Why not a series of Counterculture Museums in various locations around greater San Francisco. Connected by special buses. These could become quite a tourist attraction. The Beat Era museum in North Beach, the Hippy Era museum in Haight Ashbury... Where would the Geek Era museum be located? Silicon Valley is a bit too far away, isn't it? Maybe a special ferry ride to Sausalito? We now return you to the Paul Krassner show, already in progress.
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permalink #107 of 301: RUSirius (rusirius) Wed 11 Dec 02 14:19
permalink #107 of 301: RUSirius (rusirius) Wed 11 Dec 02 14:19
So Paul... Bill Maher and Dennis Miller, popular hip irreverent comics or reactionary all-American boneheads?
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permalink #108 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 14:53
permalink #108 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 14:53
Hello [insert name here: Andy Klein]--Personally, my religion is Coincidence, but I'll give you two examples of your rare disease: 1. I once published a cartoon about the old woman who lived in a shoe and had all these kids. She was on the phone calling an abortionist named Dr. Burnhill, a name the artist made up. However, there was an actualy Dr. Burnhill, an obstetrician/gynecologist, and his patients kept asking him about the cartoon. He complained to me, and I offered to print an apology and retraction, but he declined. Since then, I have used the name Burnhill in cartoon captions whether it applied to a teacher or a Mafiosi. 2. I once took my little daughter Holly to the park, and there were a bunch of people there chanting Hare Krishna, but she was certain they were saying her name, Holly Krassner. I chalked it up to a bit of self-realization.
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permalink #109 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 14:55
permalink #109 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 14:55
Hey, Silly, it already happened; there was a plan to reconstruct the Merry Pranksters bus in San Francisco, and to have a tour of old hippie haunts...I don't know the current status, though.
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permalink #110 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 14:59
permalink #110 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 14:59
who? me?--follow-up: Influenced by Alan Watts and Lenny Bruce's mother, I approach the ugliness to which you refer with an attitude of dealing with What Is rather than What Should Be, in the sense that Mort Sahl once said, paraphrased, "If you make fun of segregation, your advocacy of integration is implicit." Also, it's the risk of free expression. My feeling is that exploitation and liberation are two sides of the same coin.
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permalink #111 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:02
permalink #111 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:02
Sirius: Bill Maher is outspoken about being for drugs and against religion, and although I sometimes disagree with his point of view, I welcome his provocation. Dennis Miller, on the other hand, makes me want to puke. He's for the war, against the ACLU, substitutes obscure references and name-calling for humor and wit; he's mean-spirited, arrogant and a bore...this is all totally subjective, of course.
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permalink #112 of 301: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:13
permalink #112 of 301: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:13
And totally accurate.
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permalink #113 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:31
permalink #113 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:31
Andy Klein, continued...holy shitski, am I embarrassed! Your posting made me realize that it's the wrong name in my book. The guy from the TV program Conspiracy Zone who called me was not named Andy Klein. His name is Andy Meisler. I have not the slightest notion of how the name Andy Klein entered my consciousness...although there was that tiny transistor that was planted in my skull while I was getting microwave treatment at a popular mind control center...
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permalink #114 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:33
permalink #114 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:33
By the way, there is an on-line hippie museum. I think it's www.hippiemuseum.org but if that doesn't work do a search. It's OK. Of course, the concept of a gift shop at the Counterculture Hall of Fame is amusing. Since they give the awards in Amsterdam, there's almost no limit to what they could sell. "The Nepalese Temple Hash is half-off today in Aisle Five."
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permalink #115 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:36
permalink #115 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:36
Note to Andy: My friend Patrick Weathers wrote and recorded a song called "Red Miata" about a Hollywood agent named Andy Klein who takes a wrong turn, drives his Red Miata into the 'hood, and is never heard from again. I must get you a copy.
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permalink #116 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:39
permalink #116 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Wed 11 Dec 02 15:39
Re: Maher & Miller, I agree, Krass. Maher infuriates me sometimes, but he's smart, passionate and consistent. Miller is not only reactionary but he's got a smarmy personality. From his early years on SNL, I found it grating when he'd laugh at his own jokes.
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permalink #117 of 301: excessively heterosexual (saiyuk) Wed 11 Dec 02 16:09
permalink #117 of 301: excessively heterosexual (saiyuk) Wed 11 Dec 02 16:09
Paul: BWUHAHAHAHA! You have the same chip my people implanted in Ry Cooder AND the Mills Brothers! Luckily, we can send a signal to wipe the memory of this discussion from your mind. To further complicate things, actually, I think I used to know Andy Meisler or worked with him someplace or something. Mikey: I have come across references to that song while pathetically searching the Web for my own name in the middle of the night -- c'mon, you all do that, right? -- I mean, *your* name, not mine -- I mean, I *hope* not mine -- I mean... Anyway, it freaked me out (needless to say). I searched to see if I had ever written something nasty about Weathers or his cowriter. I had in fact panned a movie written by his cowriter, but in a newspaper in Moscow, for Christ's sake -- don't ask -- and, under my editorship, the Reader film section HAD printed a nasty review of the same piece of crap. But still... For that I should immortalized in a song as a shallow moron? Nah. Some other Andy Klein.
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permalink #118 of 301: flying jenny (jenslobodin) Wed 11 Dec 02 16:41
permalink #118 of 301: flying jenny (jenslobodin) Wed 11 Dec 02 16:41
Re <92> - Paul: Oy. "What's a jenslobodin?" Now you're asking me to define myself? Wait. I haven't had as much practice as you. Let me try some of that Salvia (not that I know what the heck it is, mind you, which is sad for an "aging hippie", as I was recently described - thankyou very much), or something else psychedelic before I begin telling you what I am. That JFK Realist was MOST memorable, and it's hilariously marvelous that it's among our urban myths. I would love to read it again, not that it's not indelibly etched on my brain forEVER. Now that we have your email sorted out, I'll endeavour to contact you further. This time without the tinfoil hat. Meanwhile, I couldn't agree with you more; it's those creeps in "charge" (again, or still) who are the cynical cold-hearted bastards, not us (you).
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permalink #119 of 301: flying jenny (jenslobodin) Wed 11 Dec 02 16:43
permalink #119 of 301: flying jenny (jenslobodin) Wed 11 Dec 02 16:43
Oh, and these stories are great. The one about the abortion referral brought a nice loud guffaw from my guts. Thanks!
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permalink #120 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 17:03
permalink #120 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 17:03
Just wanna share this actual E-Bay listing: This is a life size possessed Linda Blair dummy with a MOTERIZED [sic] SLOW SPINNING HEAD. Her head is from an actual cast made from Linda Blair, but the body is cast from a 5 foot 2 inch tall model/actress. The head and limbs are made of a soft polyfoam while her torso is made of a lightweight rigid foam. She has glass eyes and redish brown hair. Her legs and arms are movable so that she can sit in a chair or on the floor. I made her with brown eyes and blood on her face as she appeared in the scene where her head turns around backwards. If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me. Thanks.
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permalink #121 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 17:10
permalink #121 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 17:10
Aha! My subconscious remembered the name Andy Klein from movie-review bylines. Whew, what a relief! Andy Meisler occasionally writes for the NY Times. My regret is that nobody has gone up to him and said, "Hey, I saw your name in Krassner's book."
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permalink #122 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 17:14
permalink #122 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Wed 11 Dec 02 17:14
Jenny--"he Parts Left Out of the Kennedy Book is included in a collection of my satire, The Winner of the Slow Bicycle Race, with an introduction by Kurt Vonnegut. I feel uncomfortable being commercial in this context, so the details are on paulkrassner.com
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permalink #123 of 301: flying jenny (jenslobodin) Wed 11 Dec 02 17:33
permalink #123 of 301: flying jenny (jenslobodin) Wed 11 Dec 02 17:33
Oh, don't feel uncomfortable - it's only us!
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permalink #124 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Wed 11 Dec 02 18:00
permalink #124 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Wed 11 Dec 02 18:00
Paul -- may I call you Paul? You don't know me, but I believe David Gans and Michael Simmons do. I'd like to ask a really obscure question, because I've always been curious. Do you remember running a photograph in The Realist in fall 1996 or early 1997 of Johnnie Cochran, and on one side of him is Jerry Lefcourt -- whom I believe helped you out in that abortion referral ad thang -- and on the other, a prominent (?) S.F. psychiatrist? And the shrink, Gene Schoenfeld, is wearing a sign that says "OJ DID IT!" (unbeknownst to Cochran). My question: HOW THE HELL DID YOU GET YOUR HANDS ON THAT? If you remember, that is. It is truly an honor to be in your presence sir, at any rate. If only virtually.
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permalink #125 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Wed 11 Dec 02 18:03
permalink #125 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Wed 11 Dec 02 18:03
P. S. I'm still catching up on this topic. Spent the last week in Key West researching modern piracy, which most involves drinking lots of rum and stealing yachts apparently. Pretty exciting when you're not always falling down/overboard.
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