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permalink #176 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Thu 12 Dec 02 23:41
permalink #176 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Thu 12 Dec 02 23:41
To John Ross: Are you the "Rebellion From The Roots" John Ross?
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Paul Krassner: Investigative satirist
permalink #177 of 301: dotcompost (app2bcom) Fri 13 Dec 02 01:23
permalink #177 of 301: dotcompost (app2bcom) Fri 13 Dec 02 01:23
Paul, and y'all, check this out! It's a smaller world, after all. I was just next door visiting topic 166, Howard Rheingold, Smart Mobs, went to look at www.smartmobs.com/ and clicked into the intriguing topic title: "Sousveillance: Wearable Counter-Surveillance" (www.smartmobs.com/archives/000406.html) "... an alternative framework would be to build a stable system to begin with, e.g. a system that is self-balancing. Such a society may be built with sousveillance (inverse surveillance) as a way to balance the increasing (and increasingly one-sided) surveillance." Once there, scrolling down, I found this gem: "you gotta love this http://cryptome.org/tia-eyeball.htm [go check this out!] The SF Weekly's column by Matt Smith in the Dec 3 issue points out that there may be some information that John M. and Linda Poindexter of 10 Barrington Fare, Rockville, MD, 20850, may be missing in their pursuit of total information awareness. He suggests that people with information to offer should phone +1 301 424 6613 to speak with that corrupt official and his wife. Neighbors Thomas E. Maxwell, 67, at 8 Barringon Fare (+1 301 251 1326), James F. Galvin, 56, at 12 (+1 301 424 0089), and Sherrill V. Stant (nee Knight) at 6, may also lack some information that would be valuable to them in making decisions --decisions that could affect the basic civil rights of every American. Posted by: rur42 on December 10, 2002 07:50 AM"
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Paul Krassner: Investigative satirist
permalink #178 of 301: dotcompost (app2bcom) Fri 13 Dec 02 01:59
permalink #178 of 301: dotcompost (app2bcom) Fri 13 Dec 02 01:59
Yes, that's, "Total Information Awareness Demonstration for Poindexter" at http://cryptome.org/tia-eyeball.htm and, "Calling All Yahoos! Worried about what John Poindexter's up to as federal information czar? Call his home number and ask." at http://sfweekly.com/issues/2002-11-27/smith.html/1/index.html
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permalink #179 of 301: Paul (biscuit) Fri 13 Dec 02 05:55
permalink #179 of 301: Paul (biscuit) Fri 13 Dec 02 05:55
Wow. I grew up in Plainfield, Vermont (home of Goddard College). I don't believe I attended the Alternative Media Conference, being only two years old at the time, but having read the above reminiscences I'm thinking it's possible some of my younger friends were conceived there.
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Paul Krassner: Investigative satirist
permalink #180 of 301: John Ross (johnross) Fri 13 Dec 02 10:14
permalink #180 of 301: John Ross (johnross) Fri 13 Dec 02 10:14
#176: No, that's not me.
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Paul Krassner: Investigative satirist
permalink #181 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Fri 13 Dec 02 20:44
permalink #181 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Fri 13 Dec 02 20:44
As interlocuter, I've allowed a slack-off in Krassstock. Therefore, I'll ask a question and hope this kicks off a thread. Paulsie, you've been friends with some of the 20th century's heavyweights: Ginsberg, Kesey, Abbie, Terry Southern, Lenny, Garcia and known dozens more. Of the famous folk you've known in your life, which ones impressed you the most and why?
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Paul Krassner: Investigative satirist
permalink #182 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 07:51
permalink #182 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 07:51
It wasn't that they were famous, it was their dedicated passion for life and justice and creativity and spontaneity and responsibility, all taking different revolutionary paths, whether it was Abbie Hoffman along a political path or Ken Kesey and Terry Southern along literary paths or Dick Gregory and Lenny Bruce along comedic paths, or Mae Brussell along a conspiracy research path, of Allen Ginsberg along gay and poetic paths or Tim Leary along a psychedelic path, or Margo St. James along a prostitute organizing path or Ram Dass along a spiritual path or Phil Ochs and Jerry Garcia along musical paths. I think I miss Kesey the most, not so much for becoming a countercultural pioneer via the bus Furthur and the Merry Pranksters, but for the private time we spent together, his humor and morality and gentle humanity. I've been extremely fortunate to share the energy of these folks without the barrier of their iconic images.
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Paul Krassner: Investigative satirist
permalink #183 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 08:05
permalink #183 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 08:05
P.S. I forgot to mention Wavy Gravy, who is a force of nature underneath his clown make-up. But it feels like I'm dropping names here, because there are countless invididuals I''e met whose names may not be famous but who have excercised the same qualities and charisma of the folks Mikey listed.
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permalink #184 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 02 08:24
permalink #184 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 02 08:24
Okay, I have a really sick question for Mr. K. Who was it who came up with the idea of Jackie finding LBJ thrusting his throbbing member into JFK's neck wound on AF One and screaming, "OH MY GOD! NECK-RO-PHILIA!" You or Southern? Because that was pretty sick.
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permalink #185 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 02 08:30
permalink #185 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 02 08:30
And I don't think of you and the people Munz asks about as "name-dropping." You guys were/are all heroes (not all of you have survived) like the first wave of Marines at Tarawa. You established the beach head for the years to come. MORE!
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permalink #186 of 301: Berliner (captward) Sat 14 Dec 02 08:53
permalink #186 of 301: Berliner (captward) Sat 14 Dec 02 08:53
Actually, Jack inspired an interesting question here, Paul: Who do you see coming up who are fit to at least try on the shoes of those in that "name dropping" list?
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permalink #187 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 02 09:14
permalink #187 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 02 09:14
As as an attorney, I object to form. Could you rephrase the question?
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permalink #188 of 301: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:10
permalink #188 of 301: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:10
<scribbled by jonl Sat 14 Dec 02 11:11>
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Paul Krassner: Investigative satirist
permalink #189 of 301: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:11
permalink #189 of 301: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:11
Objection overruled! The witness may answer the question!
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permalink #190 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:14
permalink #190 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:14
You goddamned judges never sustain my objections. Okay, hold me in contempt, throw me in the pokey overnight, been there before.
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permalink #191 of 301: David Gans (tnf) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:16
permalink #191 of 301: David Gans (tnf) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:16
The question wasn't directed at you, Jack. It's a great question, and I'd love to hear Paul's response to it. Also: it's not name-dropping if they're your peers and friends.
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permalink #192 of 301: Berliner (captward) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:17
permalink #192 of 301: Berliner (captward) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:17
No, we'll just handcuff you while Paul comes up with the worst joke he's heard in the last couple of weeks. Then we'll let you go. Corrective slippage by Herr Gans.
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permalink #193 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:24
permalink #193 of 301: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:24
I object as to form! I want to hear the answer as much as anybody. I just want a more comprehensible question for the dummies like me.
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Paul Krassner: Investigative satirist
permalink #194 of 301: flying jenny (jenslobodin) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:51
permalink #194 of 301: flying jenny (jenslobodin) Sat 14 Dec 02 11:51
I'm glad you ammended your list, since I grew up in Tujunga when the Hog Farm was there. What a lifesaver for a despairing teenager. I swear, you and Wavy saved my life, Paul! Now, back to the questions at hand...
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permalink #195 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 12:01
permalink #195 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 12:01
Jack--I was writing The Parts Left Out of the Kennedy Book, not knowing where it was heading, when Marvin Garson, the brilliant editor of a San Francisco underground paper, called and read a four-page scenario, which I boiled down to one paragraph and er uh inserted it, where it organically fit, into the manuscript I was working on. I gave him credit in the next issue, and he was mad because it was scary and he wanted to remain anonymous. Terry Southern had nothing to do with this. He called and wanted to write something about the censorship by Jackie & Bobby Kennedy of William Manchester's book, but I told him I already had something and told him what it was about. He then proceeded to write the short story to which you refer. Just today I received a letter from my brother, who was involved in space communications projects. He enclosed a letter to him from Arthur C. Clarke in 1969: Here's an excerpt: "Personally, I take a very dim view of Paul. I've often enjoyed The Realist, but was disgusted by his story about LBJ fuckng JFK's body--it was just witless nastiness..."
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Paul Krassner: Investigative satirist
permalink #196 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 12:08
permalink #196 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 12:08
captward: names to drop today...hmmm...the interesting thing is I know of organizations like United for Peace, but I don't know the names of their leaders...which is, partly because of the Internet, Yippie type tricks for attention, in order to manipulate the media into providing free publicity and organizing, aren't that necessary...and that's just one aspect of the culture...it's a good question but my mind is blank at the moment...it would be more productive if WELL participants were to suggest names.
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Paul Krassner: Investigative satirist
permalink #197 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 12:11
permalink #197 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 12:11
let's see, the worst joke I've heard...well, since reality outshines a structured joke as such, it would have to be Bush appointing Kissinger as a fact-finder...and the coda is that Kissinger has quit and is going to live in sin with fellow resignee Cardinal Law.
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permalink #198 of 301: Berliner (captward) Sat 14 Dec 02 12:48
permalink #198 of 301: Berliner (captward) Sat 14 Dec 02 12:48
Okay, I guess Jack was right, my question must have been confusing. The list was people like Kesey, Ginsberg, Lenny Bruce, et. al., and my question about who's fit to wear their shoes these days was more towards the edgy culture and entertainment aspects rather than politics, which, yes, usually actually gets done by anonymous people.
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permalink #199 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 13:50
permalink #199 of 301: Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Sat 14 Dec 02 13:50
I suppose Jon Stewart on the Daily Show has an edge, but although he's a talented comedian, he's an awful interviewer, and always covers his mouth when he laughs as if he's embarrassed by cigarette breath.
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permalink #200 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Sat 14 Dec 02 15:20
permalink #200 of 301: Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Sat 14 Dec 02 15:20
The Diggers -- Peter Berg, Coyote, Grogan, etc. -- were angry at the Yippies for becoming media figures, arguing that anonymity was revoltionary and Hoffman, etc., were media hounds. But Ed asks about young(er) people. I think of Zack de la Rocha -- political but also a singer/man of the word. Naomi Klein, author of NO LOGO. But it's true that the current counterculture is closer to the Diggers' original concept of stealth (from the media) lives. I'Ve met some extraordinary people under 30 in the global justice movement, but they purposely do not seek out the media. I'm not sure that this strategy is a good idea, by the way, since most Americans get their news from TV, you're effectively shutting yourself out from the mainstream. As far as current, countercultural artists, writers, etc., they're to be found in zines, on the internet, in small temporary autonompus zones. I'm going to a an art opening/rock concert/party tonight thrown by local L.A. anarcho artists. Who are their leaders? They don't have leaders.
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