inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #76 of 231: Gary Lambert (almanac) Wed 12 May 04 09:19
    

The juxtaposition of Ben and Cameron as journalistic exemplars made me
smile, not just because I have enormous respect for both of them, but
because I remembered that in "Almost Famous," Ben is presented as
something of a nemesis to young William Miller, the Crowe character.
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #77 of 231: look, it's all right there in front of you... (cmf) Wed 12 May 04 09:25
    
Dave

Were there any "surprises" in the course of putting this book
together. Anything you didn't expect in the process or maybe an article
that got uncovered... something that had been kind of forgotten or
overlooked?
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #78 of 231: Dave Zimmer (waterbrother) Wed 12 May 04 09:59
    

<<The juxtaposition of Ben and Cameron as journalistic exemplars made
me smile, not just because I have enormous respect for both of them,
but because I remembered that in "Almost Famous," Ben is presented as
something of a nemesis to young William Miller, the Crowe character.>>

Gary, yes, you're right ... in his role as William/Cameron's Rolling
Stone editor in "Almost Famous" and in real-life, Ben certainly had to
exert some deadline pressure, critically comb Cameron's article content
and make some tough calls.  But in conversations I've had with both,
Ben rightly looks at Cameron as one of his "discoveries" and Cameron
views Ben as one of his mentors (along with Lester Bangs).  And, of
course, they are the best of friends.    
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #79 of 231: Gary Lambert (almanac) Wed 12 May 04 10:30
    

Yeah, I saw an interview with Cameron where he was a bit sheepish about
the way Ben's character comes off in the film, but said that Ben was
very understanding and good-humored about it.
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #80 of 231: from PETER O'MALLEY (tnf) Wed 12 May 04 11:02
    


Peter O'Malley writes:



Just tell me Stephen Stills has ever, I mean ever, hit that high note in
Suite: Judy Blue Eyes, and maybe I'll become a believer.  The reverb drenched
plug-in on the record doesn't count.

They never could cut the mustard live.

Peter
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #81 of 231: I'm on the Chet Atkins Diet. Pass the BBQ, please. (rik) Wed 12 May 04 11:11
    
"Plug-in"?    I must be reading the term wrong.   Digital reverb wasn't even
a dream then.
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #82 of 231: Dave Zimmer (waterbrother) Wed 12 May 04 11:39
    

re: Peter O'Malley's claim that Stills could never "hit the high note"
in "Suite: Judy Blues Eyes."  I beg to differ. I assume you're
referring to the HEART note in ... "It's my HEART that's a sufferin',
it's a dyin ..."  He never "plugged it in" in the studio (ask engineer
Bill Halverson).  And Stills hit that note effortlessly live in '69
(watch the Woodstock DVD) and '70. Also, while CSN and CSNY's harmonies
have sometimes been ragged live, on stage during the initial tours,
Stephen's range was never a problem. 


Also, Gary, Ben pridefully notes his appearance as a "real-life
character" in "Almost Famous" on his web site (www.benfongtorres.com)

Taking a run at Tony's questions about "surprises" and <<Anything you
didn't expect in the process or maybe an article that got uncovered...
something that had been kind of forgotten or
overlooked?>> 

... there were quite a few, actually. 

I was lucky to unearth the 1970 Sounds Talk-In with Stephen Stills and
Neil Young, in which Stills told Penny Valentine: "What I'd like to do
next is walk in and cut an acoustic album in two hours" (Too bad he
didn't do "Stills Alone" then, rather than wait 21 years).

The Roy Carr NME interview with David Geffen was another discovery
that I had not read when it came it out in 1972 and found thanks to my
friends Paul Higham and Scott Oxman.  Geffen told Carr: "We're more
interested in an artist remaining creative than in generating huge
fortunes of money."

Finally, right before I turned the collection of writings in, Joel
Selvin called me up and asked if I had room to drop in one more article
... on CSNY at Madison Square Garden in New York in 2002 that he had
written for the San Francisco Chronicle. He e-mailed me the piece and
it fit into the flow perfectly, adding just the extra boost the Tour of
America section needed ... with some great quotes ... "This is Crosby,
Stills, Nash & Young," said musical director Booker T. Jones. "And
that's a very large ampersand."  Young also told Selvin: "It's the
Springfield thing ... me and Stephen. That's what people remember from
the Springfield. It's an archeological dig, but we're excavating."

So yeah, there were some great surprises and discoveries that, I
think, really added to the collection.
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #83 of 231: Dave Zimmer (waterbrother) Wed 12 May 04 14:31
    

<<They never could cut the mustard live.>>

I just couldn't let this comment (by O'Malley, flown in by D. Gans)
stand.  While, as previously stated, sometimes the harmonies are not
spot-on, the Crosby - Nash blends are usually righteously jazzy,
out-there and true. Stills *used* to come off consistently well at the
microphone (particularly during the 1972 Manassas period -- check out
the Beat Club DVD), but on recent tours, the pitch and delivery comes
and goes. Neil? His raw whines (even the Time Fades Away tour) on the
electric stuff and frail cries during the acoustic sets have a razor's
edge uniqueness that slice up whatever voices are nearby. On more than
one occasion, Young has said: "I don't consider myself a harmony
singer."  But he gives the CSNY blends that dark mahogany grain.

On the instrumental front, CSNY's guitars are front and center. 
That's where Stills and Young get to work out.  Sometimes their jams
(on "Down By the River" and "Southern Man") have gotten a bit aimless,
but there were always moments ... even on tour in 2002. 

When CSN goes out this summer with guitarist Jeff Pevar as part of the
band (along with James Raymond on keyboards), it will be interesting
to see how Peev and Stills play off each other.  It should make for
some really interesting jams, I'm hoping.
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #84 of 231: David Crosby (croz) Wed 12 May 04 18:45
    
so are we ...............
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #85 of 231: look, it's all right there in front of you... (cmf) Wed 12 May 04 18:55
    
CROZ!! Thanks for stopping by Mr. C.

Mr. Z... I would say the question is not how they'll play OFF each
other, but WITH each other. Anybody who's heard Jeff Pevar knows what a
guitar maestro the man is... and we know that while SS and N.Young
have created magic together on stage, there's also some history of the
sparks turning to flames...

Whaddaya think Dave (Z) will they play nice?
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #86 of 231: Dave Zimmer (waterbrother) Wed 12 May 04 19:22
    
Yes, many thanks for following the discussion, David. And the more I
think about it, Tony, the more I believe that Stephen and Peev with
pair up very nicely on stage.  I mean, Peev is a master at subtle
colorations, sweet picking patterns and kick-ass leads.  My sense is
that he will find some nice pockets, not only in Croz's songs, which he
knows so well, but some Nash and Stills CSN tunes, too -- particularly
"Immigration Man," "Dark Star," "Southern Cross," "Lost Another One"
and "Dirty Little Secret." Not to mention some of the new C-N material.

And by saying they will play "off" each other -- I meant that each of
the guitarists will hear a lick and turn it back around in an
interesting way.  Stephen and Neil have done that so well over the
years ... where the carry on instrumental conversations. The "sparks"
you speak of would often lead to some very passionate spells of
playing. The "flames" were exaggerated a bit.

So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to this new chapter ...
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #87 of 231: Dave Zimmer (waterbrother) Wed 12 May 04 19:25
    
I meant to say ... "Stephen and Peev will pair up very nicely on
stage."  Can't wait to hear it ...
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #88 of 231: Dave Zimmer (waterbrother) Thu 13 May 04 05:28
    
And re: CSNY guitars live ...

"Stephen and Neil have done that so well over the
years ... where they carry on instrumental conversations."
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #89 of 231: look, it's all right there in front of you... (cmf) Thu 13 May 04 05:41
    
Great points Dave... especially the part about Pevar. I think you're
right, the subtle nuances are his bread and butter.
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #90 of 231: Dave Zimmer (waterbrother) Thu 13 May 04 07:57
    
Rewinding back for a little bit of housekeeping here ...

My apologies to Harry <bluefox> for calling you "Ron" in response to
your kindly worded post <45>. Thanks again for your comments about 4
Way Street ...  
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #91 of 231: from BILL EVANS (tnf) Thu 13 May 04 08:47
    


Bill Evans writes:



I've got to jump in on the Pevar thing....Jeff is one of my favorite guitar
players ever.  His range is extraordary, from so tasteful (listen to CPR's
Rusty and Blue from Montreau where you can hear the whales coming up from the
deep) to so rockin' (live from Washinton DC on Wooden Ships).  But, I would
really like to hear Stills and Peev jam on acoustic guitar as both can get
unbelievable sounds out of those "Wooden Ships".  I'm not worried at all
about Stills and Peev mixing as Peev will do whatever it takes to make CSN
sound their best.

If Jeff would have been around in the late 60s and 70s, don't you thing he
would have been a huge part of the music scene?  I wonder what he would have
been musically drawn to....what would have influenced his style?  I'm
thinging probably similar influences that Stills tapped into...blues.
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #92 of 231: Dave Zimmer (waterbrother) Thu 13 May 04 09:14
    
Bill ... great points about Peev ... I, too, hope that he and Stephen
can also play together on acoustics (how about "So Begins the Task"?
which was performed acoustically as "I Must Learn to Live" by CSNY in
the fall of 1969). I've always thought that Jeff's "Little Blind Fish"
picking feel on stage with CPR is very "Stillsian" -- with a great
folk/blues snap to it. 

As to your "what if ..." scenarios ... I think Jeff absolutely would
have been a major force during the late '60s/early '70s, had he been
there then. As most of the guitarists of that era were drawn to "source
blues" (e.g. Robert Johnson, Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters, etc.), he
probably would have been all over that, too. 

If Peev was floating around Greenwich Village in the '60s, I could
have seen him falling in with the Lovin' Spoonful crowd. If he was in
Laurel Canyon, he would absolutely have been part of Cass Elliot's
"queendom" of musician pals and part of countless living
room/backyard/swimming pool jams. And, of course, he would have been
drawn to Croz, Stills and Nash, and they to him ... 
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #93 of 231: Uncle Jax (jax) Thu 13 May 04 09:15
    
Whoo! Time travel paradox.
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #94 of 231: Dave Zimmer (waterbrother) Thu 13 May 04 09:32
    
Time travel paradox? ;-) Who was it once sang something to the effect
of ... "How can you be two places at once when you're not anywhere at
all"?
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #95 of 231: Zen Cohen (tinymonster) Thu 13 May 04 09:42
    
Ooh, science fiction and music in the same topic; now I'm REALLY
happy.  ;)
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #96 of 231: Of course this can get a little solipsistic (pjm) Thu 13 May 04 10:16
    
"How can you be two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?"

Firesign Theatre.  I'm sure (tnf) can elaborate.
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #97 of 231: Robin Russell (rrussell8) Thu 13 May 04 10:40
    
Everybody knows this is nowhere, not sure if it is only two places at
once though.

Enjoyed the book, Dave, thanks. 
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #98 of 231: look, it's all right there in front of you... (cmf) Thu 13 May 04 10:50
    
In an attempt to kind of turn the tables, I wonder. Those who are
following along with this discussion, do you have favorite parts of the
book, things that really stood out in your mind that maybe we could
get Dave to comment on?

Or was there anything missing you would have liked to see and maybe he
could comment on that?
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #99 of 231: Dave Zimmer (waterbrother) Thu 13 May 04 10:56
    
Good questions, Tony ... which just slipped ahead of my response to
<97> ...

Thank YOU, Robin, am glad you enjoyed the book ... the same college
dorm friend who turned me on to Stephen Stills in 1972 also used to
play Firesign Theatre records ... which we'd listen to in the dark ...
underneath a burning mushroom candle swirling in a macrame cradle
suspended from the ceiling ... followed by Deja Vu ... Stills 1 ...
Neil's Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere (about five places at once!) ...
then ... Crosby's If I Could Only Remember My Name as the closer
before beddy-bye ...
  
inkwell.vue.213 : Dave Zimmer - "4 Way Street: The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader"
permalink #100 of 231: Are You My Caucasian? (shmo) Thu 13 May 04 11:16
    

Somebody should get <croz> in on this conversation!
  

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