Inkwell: Authors and Artists

    
A band bands together and a group groups together?
  

    
Ha! ... good one, Jack ... I must admit I've always felt the terms
were interchangeable.
  

    
I remember when the Thorns came out that there was some comparison to
CSN.
  

    
I must admit I had not heard of the Thorns until you mentioned the
group/band. The amazon.com description of the Thorns' debut mentions a
comparison to CSN and that this trio of alt/folk/rock
singer-songwriters Matthew Sweet, Shawn Mullins and Pete Droge "can't
help but echo history in its folk-rooted vocal glories." I will
definitely check out this album (which includes a bonus CD of Acoustic
Sunset Sessions tracks).  Thanks, Sharon!
  

    
Recent posts about CSNY's acoustic side have gotten me to thinking
that their role in popularizing the concept of what we kind of know as
the "unplugged" facet of contemporary rock music has been
underacknowledged. When CSNY first started playing together in 1969, to
my knowledge there wasn't another "rock" act that gave such even
weight to acoustic and electric sets. Bob Dylan had done this, in fact
really pioneered this approach, with his famous 1965-66 shows in which
he'd play solo acoustic for the first half, then loud electric (usually
with the Band, then known as the Hawks, as backup) in the second half.
But by 1969 he had virtually retired from live performing (with rare
exceptions like the Isle of Wight festival). And unlike CSNY, he didn't
actually put out a live album mixing acoustic and electric recordings,
though his oft-bootlegged May 1966 Manchester acoustic/electric set
finally came out officially, in its entirety, in 1998.

There were folk-rock acts in the mid-to-late 1960s who sometimes or
often played acoustically in concert (like Simon & Garfunkel) although
they were recording with full electric accompaniment on record. When I
wrote my folk-rock books, it was hard to determine which folk-rock
artists played electrically or acoustically in concert -- often the
artists themselves couldn't remember, or at least couldn't remember
what format they'd used when. It seems like CSNY were the first big act
to comfortably accommodate both formats onstage; when Dylan had done
it, although the music in both halves was good, it seemed as though
(judging from second-hand reports, I wasn't there) that it was done at
least in part so that some of his more folk-oriented fans wouldn't get
as upset as they would have if everything had been electric rock.
Perhaps it wasn't until the late 1960s that a big audience had
developed, too, that was equally accepting of both acoustic and
electric music from the same act. Nowadays, it's no big deal if an
electric rock artist does an acoustic set within a show; a special
acoustic show, whether for a standard live audience or TV; or even in
some cases, an entire acoustic tour.

Dave, do you see CSNY's mix of acoustic and electric as having an
underrated effect for widening the horizons of how rock artists can
presented their music live?
  

    
Absolutely, Richie. CSNY set the table, in that regard, with their
first tours in 1969 and 1970 ... which would generally *open* with CSN
performing "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" before Neil came out, and an hour or
90 minutes of acoustic music, in various combinations and solo, would
ensue.  As poet/CSNY friend Charles John Quarto once described: "The
group held public porch." And the musicians would *talk* to the
audience, sitting on their wooden stools on this large oriental rug,
*rapping* (telling stories) between songs. I can't think of another
group that ever did that in quite this manner.  As Nash once told me:
"We were doing it for everybody out there, for every musician that felt
the way we did. When they saw us up there, they saw *themselves*. It
was a very interesting thing that happened between the artist and the
audience, a very close symbiotic relationship." 

When CSNY in '69/'70 would then re-emerge after a break and perform
another 90 minutes of electric songs with a sometimes ferocious
intensity and end most nights on an almost spiritual note with the
acoustic "Find the Cost of Freedom," they created a scope and range on
the concert stage that no doubt opened a lot of musician's eyes.  Dan
Fogelberg admitted to me once that he patterned his early performances
after CSNY's approach. Glenn Frey of the Eagles also was "watching and
taking notes."

And while the Seattle groups of the early '90s dubbed Neil Young "The
Godfather of Grunge," when they stripped down their sounds, then built
them back up into electric explosions on stage (and record), to my ears
it was more CSNY than Neil that influenced this development. 

Interestingly enough, the more recent CSN and CSNY tours have featured
far fewer acoustic songs and not as broad a range of dynamics as they
did on their early tours. But CSNY certainly opened the horizon in the
first place and everyone else followed after. 

 
  

    
CSNY have also adjusted the blend and pacing of their mixture
according to circumstances. One of their longtime associates,
photographer/archivist Joel Bernstein, made this interesting
observation to me about their early concerts for my book "Eight Miles
High": "I remember CSNY opening a show at the Spectrum [in
Philadelphia] where I was out in the audience shooting, and they had
not yet figured out that they should come out electric, and then do an
acoustic set, and then do an electric set. They started off with an
acoustic set that was nearly drowned out because the audience was more
in a Beatlemania kind of mode. At the Fillmore East, they could do that
successfully, but not at an arena."
  

    
Very true, Richie. For the 1974 tour -- when CSNY played in mostly
outdoor stadiums -- they made the change to electric/acoustic/elecrtic.
 

I must admit, though, that I really *liked* (and prefered) the
original format. Since "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" is a long song, with a
mixture of raucous strumming and a universe of changes, by the time it
ended, the crowd had settled down and was ready for Nash to announced:
"We'd like to introduce our friend Neil Young!"

One more thought ... even though many groups are using acoustic music
as part of their stage shows now, the *sound* is often not nearly as
warm and pure as it used to be.  Even CSNY, CSN, CPR and Neil generally
"plug in" their acoustic guitars now on stage. And I *hate* the
resultant *electro-acoustic* sound. The resonance of CSNY's vintage
Martin guitars (not that Stills plays his Martins on stage anymore) can
only be found on old recordings of vintage live shows these days.  
  

    
Your mention of Suite: Judy Blue Eyes reminded me of a question I
wanted to ask -- how did women involved with band members, like Judy
Collins and John Mitchell, feel about having their relationships
immortalized in that way?
  

    
Jumping back up to your question in #173 about other superstars using
different support --- Steely Dan? There have been any number of
outstanding musicians who've played with the duo -- both live and on
studio, but the basic formula is almost always Becker and Fagan + great
session players.

//

I had a couple recordings of CSNY Fillmore shows from 1973/74 where
you could really feel some of the influence on the grunge scene of the
90's -- I don't have them here -- but there was a few tracks, like
Southern Man and Ohio where it's really pronounced (Those tapes are
sort of my own personal version of Digaman's "Laughing" for the amount
of times I'll site them). But to my ear, its what Neil did later with
CH (and the SM Flyers) that earns him the nickname Father of Grunge --
TTN and On the Beach, of course, but also where those moderately tame
Zuma songs like Don't Cry No Tears and Cortez end up going when
performed live - some of which is well captured on Live Rust, and on
any number of the bootleg Santa Monica Flyer shows.
  

    
Surely you mean "Kids and Dogs" <wink>.
  

    
"Kids and Dogs" and so much more ... am salivating for that Crosby box
set, Steve.

And David-Michel wrote: <<Jumping back up to your question in #173
about other superstars using different support --- Steely Dan?>>
Yes, of course, and they've done that extraordinarily well, while
maintaining a distinctive sound that. Was great to hear CPR do a cover
of "Home at Last" on this past tour. And sure, you're right about
NY&CH/TSMF being more *grunge* evoking than CSNY, but its the acoustic
elements that I think also subliminally touched the young rockers, too.


And <slf> wrote: Your mention of Suite: Judy Blue Eyes reminded me of
a question I wanted to ask -- how did women involved with band members,
like Judy Collins and John Mitchell, feel about having their
relationships immortalized in that way?>>

I know you meant Judy Collins and *Joni* Mitchell <grin> ... 

With regard to Judy C., I never got a chance to interview her but I've
read her biographies -- in which she shows much love, affection and
understanding toward Stephen. She expressed no negative feelings about
"Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" and later covered Stills' "So Begins the Task"
(a song he wrote in 1969 that deals with feelings of resignation about
the CJ-SS relationship, includng the lines: "I must learn to live
without you now, because I can not learn to give only part somehow").
Judy also later wrote an original song about Stills called "Houses"
that's on her Judith album (released in the mid '70s) that paints a
picture of a man living in many "houses," looking for something that
always seemed just out of reach.

As for Joni ... references to her in the CSNY cannon of songs are
subtler (with the exception of Neil's plaintive, unreleased "Sweet
Joni" that he performed live on the Time Fades Away tour in 1973), but
fans know that "Our House" referred to Graham and Joni's cottage in
Laurel Canyon. Nash also charted their break-up in parts of other songs
and Joni turned the tables, writing about Nash in "Willy" (a nickname
that is a variant of Graham's middle name William). Croz has never
*officially* confirmed that a part of "Guinnevere" was inspired by
Joni, but she admits parts of her song, "The Dawntreader," are about
David.  Anyway ... I *did* interview Joni for the Crosby, Stills & Nash
biography, and she only expressed endearment for the guys, didn't mind
the song references to her and she considered herself "a member of the
gang" for life.
  

    
Dave...

You've talked a little about your respect for the lineup of writers
who agreed to be published in your book... have you received any
response from them since the book hit the streets?
  

    
Dave,

The post is back a while, but I have never heard of an a capella
"band". This is not to imply that CSNY don't play instruments or can't
play them well. Were (are) Simon and Garfunkel a band? A group? No,
neither I'd say, there must be more than two members to qualify as
either. Were Peter, Paul and Mary a band? Or a group? Or both? Or
should this diversion be banned?

Happy Trails
  

    
Oops, forgot protocol, forget that Happy Trails.
  

    
Protocol, Robin? ;-) I used to live right near Roy Rogers' old ranch
in Chatsworth, CA and Happy Trails is one of my favorite Quicksilver
Messenger Service albums. 

Anyway, thanks for further articulating your thoughts on the group vs.
band thing. Even though I've interchanged the two terms, I must admit
when I hear the word *band*, I visualize *instruments* and a
self-contained unit, too. So I know what you're saying. I guess I was
just trying to get inside this obviously somewhat perplexing argument
that because CSNY features four singer-songwriters and needs to add a
rhythm section play electric music live, they are not a true *band*.
But, as you suggest, perhaps this diversion should be *banned*. :-) 

And Tony, yes, I've heard from a few of the writers, including Cameron
Crowe, Ben-Fong Torres, Joel Selvin, Ellen Sander, Gary Graff and
Vicki Wickham. Cameron was warmly effusive and had nothing but kind
words, then noted that the book was like "one-stop shopping for
writings on CSNY."  Ellen, Joel and Gary were also very happy their
works were included -- Ellen particularly pleased that her "Trips"
excerpt led off the collection. Ben and Vicki provided no specific,
direct feedback. If they were *not* pleased, I'm hoping that they and
other contributors I've not heard from would tell me.

One other thing ... I also hope that *the artists* are happy that this
book exists. Perhaps there are pieces or portions of pieces they would
have preferred not be included, but, as I was editing together the
collection, I tried not to let that fear influence whether or not a
particular piece was selected or bumped. It was a matter of threading
together (like a jigsaw puzzle) what I felt would be the most important
moments in time -- as documented by the writers and articulated by the
artists -- covering the whole range of what has happened in these
artists' lives and careers.
          
  

    
I once received a birthday card with Trigger's horseshoe print
signature on it. And yes, no doubt among QMS's finest. Also, in
Indonesia, Selamat Jalan (literally felicitous road, really the same
thing) is the salutation to the deceased, as in the newspaper headline
"Selamat Jalan, Di" on the occasion of Princess Diana's death.

I bet some of the interview selections would make various members of
CSNY squirm a little today, but it would be a rare life that could be
subjected to this kind of public scrutiny without embarrassment. I
thought it was a pretty honest and balanced portrait given the length.

To me the real proof of the pudding is that it re-excited my interest
in the musical output of the various configurations.  I had (re)
acquired two Crosby and a half dozen Young solo CD's since I made the
switch from vinyl about ten years ago. Since I read the book I have
bought three CDs - one CSNY, one CSN and one CN, with at least another
three definitely on the shopping list.
  

    
That's great, Robin. I'm happy the selections rekindled your interest
in the music of the guys. I've been going back to certain CDs myself
during this topic run, most recently Nash's Wild Tales last night. 
  

    
Dave, over the last few years, there have been a good number of books
with a similar format to "The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Reader,"
collecting numerous pieces that have been written about a major artist
over a long period of time. If memory serves correctly, there have been
such volumes produced for Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, the Doors, Bob
Dylan, David Bowie, and the Velvet Underground, to name a few examples.
Some of them can get rather esoteric: I just picked up one on the
Incredible String Band ("Be Glad: An Incredible String Band
Compendium").

Of the other similarly formatted books you've seen, are there any that
 you thought were especially good and would recommend? And were there
any ways in which you wanted to make the CSNY reader different from
previous such volumes on other artists?
  

    
Joni, of course. Sorry. And thanks for the information!
  

    
Good questions, Richie.  Yes, like you, I have read and collected a
number of similarly formatted "Reader"-type books.  Of the ones that
I've read and would recommend include: RING OF FIRE: The Johnny Cash
Reader; edited by Michael Streissguth (2003); THE GRATEFUL DEAD READER,
edited by David Dodd and Diana Spaulding (2002); THE JONI MITCHELL
COMPANION: Four Decades of Commentary, edited by Stacy Luftig (2000);
and RACING IN THE STREET: The Bruce Springsteen Reader, edited by June
Skinner Sawyers (2004). Each of these books contain stories and
elements that grabbed my attention and, I felt, provided good
career-spanning insights into the respective artists. I also would
recommend NEIL YOUNG: THE ROLLING STONE FILES and BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN:
THE ROLLING STONE FILES (though both are long out of print). 

In addition, I would recommend a couple of books that collect the best
works by a *specific writer*, including NOT FADE AWAY: A Backstage
Pass to 20 years of Rock and Roll, by Ben Fong-Torres (2002) and NIGHT
BEAT: A Shadow History of Rock and Roll, by Mikal Gilmore (1999).

When putting together the CSNY Reader, I wanted to make it was
different in a number of ways: 1) At least one photograph with each
entry.  So many Readers I own and have flipped through have few, if
any, photos. And I've felt the volumes suffer because of that fact. So
I was determined to collect as many quality images as I could to go
along with the selections. 2) No reviews.  As stated previously, I
think reviews in anthologies provide little insights into the artists
themselves. And while sometimes interesting (or irritating), I just
didn't want to bog down the flow of the book with a slew of reviews. 3)
Go with the *best* pieces, even if it meant using several by the same
author. Knowing that 4 WAY STREET was probably going to be the only
CSNY Reader ever published, I wanted to make sure it included the "Hall
of Fame" pieces by Cameron Crowe, Ben Fong-Torres and others. I wasn't
going to leave out works I thought were *essential*, nor was I going
to add in a piece just because it was *obscure* if it did not measure
up, in terms of quality and insight. 4) A killer cover. Though this was
somewhat out of my hands and mostly in the hands of the Da Capo Press
designer (George Restrepo), I wanted to make sure the cover of the book
captured the feel of the group and the contents. I think the classic
1970 CSNY shot by Henry Diltz did just that, and I also was thrilled
with the cover typeface selection and graphic elements. The only things
I would have changed are the size of the type on the back cover (it
seems at least one point too small) and the size of the spine type --
again, outside of 4 Way Street, the letters are too small and hard to
read. Had it been up to me, I would have used, in bold letters, C S N Y
Reader on the spine. Minor quibbles, though.  In the end, I just hope
4 WAY STREET helps keep the spirit of CSNY alive and serves as a decent
historical record of the group and the times.
  

    
Re: The Thorns--yes, I can definitely see the CSN influences, but the
amazing thing is that they wrote the songs while staying at a ranch in
Santa Ynez, probably right near Crosby's house.  Maybe it's the water!
;-)

Also, here's a question I have.  Why do you think it's taken Stills so
long to put out an album?  He's been talking about it at least since 
October, '98, when I found myself one-on-one with him at the Caesar's
A/C bar around closing time.  Don't ask.
  

    
Hi Joyce,

Thanks for the insight into the Thorns. I had no idea. You might be
right about that osmosis influence!

As for why it has taken so long for Stills to finish and get his next
solo album out into the market ... I can only speculate. One reason, I
think, is that it has just taken him a long time to generate enough
quality new material to fill up a CD. Unlike Neil (who still seems to
pop out new songs like his muse is flowing at peak capacity), Stephen
has been *wrestling* with his muse and only coming up with musical
changes and words he's pleased with a few times a year -- if that. I
mean, during the 2002 CSNY tour, "Feed the People" was being introduced
as a "new" song when, in fact, Stephen wrote it in the '70s!  Also,
while "Acadienne" (written in the late '90s) is a nice song and
"Heart's Gate" (I think that's what it's called, written in the 2000s)
has a nice feel ... to my ears, they seem several leagues below such
old classic Stills tracks as "Go Back Home," "The Treasure" and "Dark
Star."  Does he have any more classic tracks in him? I hope so. But I'm
still waiting to hear them.

Another factor that has perhaps delayed production of Stephen's album
is that I know he's been devoting a lot of time to his family.  He's
got his young son, Henry, teenage daughter, Eleanor, his wife, Kristin,
sisters Tai and Hannah, and adult sons, Christoper and Justin ... I
think he's been making time to be a dad, husband and brother, which I
can understand and respect. That said, Nash, Croz and Neil take care of
all of their family business and still keep the product flowing.

Recent reports have said Stephen's album is finally *done* and that it
was produced by Joe Vitale. If this is true, when will it come out?
This summer? This fall? I'll believe it's finished when I have the CD
in my hands.

Also, I dearly hope to hear some new songs from Stephen this summer
along the CSN tour trail. Croz and Nash have many to mix in, which is
great. I would love it if Stills had a couple of genuinely new songs to
unveil as well. Even though his vocal skills are not what they once
were, Stephen remains a fanstastic guitar player and, on a good night,
can reach back and hit those notes at the mike (though at a lower range
and with more gravel than honey).

So, Joyce ... here's hoping we get that Stills album this year. I
haven't lost the faith. 
         
  

    
A little bit of housekeeping here as we begin the last day for this
topic being in position numero uno here at Inkwell.vue ... RING OF
FIRE: The Johnny Cash Reader, edited by Michael Streissguth, was
actually published in April of 2002, not 2003. If you have even a
passing interest in the late Man in Black, this volume is worth owning.
 Also, I neglected to mention another book, CONVERSATIONS WITH THE
DEAD: The Grateful Dead Interview Book, featuring a bevy of
conversational interveiws conducted by David <tnf> Gans.  My particular
favorites are the ones with Lesh, Weir and Dan Healey. And Mr. Gans
also cracked into some new turf with Garcia. A great read.

Sharon and Joyce got me to thinking more about Stephen Stills
yesterday. So I went back to that Judy Collins album from 1975 (called
Judith) and listened to "Houses" again.  The words provide a very
interesting view of Mr. Stills as well as Ms. Collins herself ...

"Houses"

You have many houses
One for every season
Mountains in your windows
Violets in your hands

Thru your English meadows
Your blue-eyed horses wander
You're in Colorado for the Spring
When the Winter finds you
You fly to where it's Summer

Rooms that face the ocean
Moonlight on your bed
Mermaids swift as dolphins
Paint the air with diamonds
You are like a seagull
As you sail

Why do you fly
Bright feathers sometimes in my dreams
The shadows of your wings
Fall over my face
I can feel no air
I can find no peace
Brides in black ribbons
Witches in white
Fly in thru the windows
Fly thru the night

Why do I think I'm dying sometimes
In my dreams
I see myself a child
Running thru the trees
Looking everywhere
Crawling for myself
Searching for my life
I cannot see the leaves
I cannot see the light

Then I see you walking
Just beyond the forest
Walking very quickly
Walking by yourself
Your shoes are silver
Your coat is made of velvet
Your eyes are shining
Your voice is sweet and clear

"Come on," you say, "Come with me
I'm going to the castle."
All the bells are ringing
The weddings have begun
But I can only stand here
I cannot move to follow
I'm burning in the shadows
And freezing in the sun

There are people with you
Living in your houses
People from your childhood
Remember how you were

You were always flying
Nightengale of sorrow
Singing bird
With rainbows on your wings

By Judy Collins (copyright 1975, The Wildflowers Company)

Another correction note (sorry for so many of these during this topic,
and my apologies for the periodic typos and missing words in some of
my posts. Doing too many things at once at home and work!) ... I meant
to say I'd read all of Judy's *autobiographies* -- her most recent one
being SANITY AND GRACE: A Journey of Suicide, Survival and Strength, a
chronicle of her life and reflections during the aftermath of the
suicide of her 33-year-old son, Clark, who died in 1992.  

  
  

    
Dave... here we are conducting this interview in cyberspeak... did the
Internet play a role in the development of this project and what
differences if any would you say there are between the process of
creating the bio and this book?