inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #251 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:18
permalink #251 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:18
"It was a dizzy period of transcendence and awareness: transcendence of compromised and obsolete value systems, awareness of the enormity and richness of a previously unsuspected inner reality. Its zeitgeist, despite what you may have heard, was only secondarily political. As much as its been emphasized by uncomprehending journalists, the political movements of the time (be they pacifist, feminist, environmental, or racial) were largely the result of fallout from a spiritual explosion." Tom Robbins, from The Sixties When I first read this, having read the essay at Robbins' suggestion, it struck me as right on. In light of Cynthia's comments, I am thinking that this spiritual explosion is not inherently about the realm of higher power. In terms of humanism, this explosion became manifest in the amazing collectivist energy of the time (and its idealism expressed in John Lennon's "Imagine.") This does not negate, in my thinking, the spiritual/religious exploration of the period that delved far beyond the organized Judeo-Christian constraints in the America of the '50s. But it does consider the here-and-now human spirit within the prevailing cultural dynamics of that time.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #252 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:22
permalink #252 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:22
<scribbled>
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #253 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:26
permalink #253 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:26
Great photo, Michael! Joan Didion IS Oedipa Maas (from Pynchon's The Crying of Lot 49). She's a tad bit older than most of these hippies, so conservatively hip and bright, but an outsider to the scene that she dissects with her rapier wit.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #254 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:28
permalink #254 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:28
For clarification, Slouching Toward Bethlehem is Didion's first book, a collection of essays, one of which is "Slouching Toward Bethlehem." The others have to to with other aspects of living in the Golden State in the '60s.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #255 of 349: Michael Zentner (mz) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:35
permalink #255 of 349: Michael Zentner (mz) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:35
>> were largely the result of fallout from a spiritual explosion. To me, the message of the 60's was that the "dominant Paradigm", as it were, was no longer working, maybe never worked, and that something better had to be found for society, and that had to start on an individual level. This was a profoundly threatening idea to the status quo. To me, that's political. When you threaten the power structure, that's *always* political. And the 60's movements were a direct threat to the power structure.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #256 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:49
permalink #256 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:49
There's a great exchange between Abbie Hoffman and Timothy Leary on this subject that I quote in The Hippie Narrative. It helps us understand what I think were the two primary "camps" within the counterculture: HOFFMAN: We saw in the sixties a great imbalance of power, and the only way that you could correct the imbalance was to organize people and fight for power. Power is not a dirty word. The concept of trying to win against social injustice is not a dirty kind of concept.[ ] LEARY: Abbie, you [ ] have much more faith in the political systems ability to change things, and I believe with William Burroughs that its the culture that changesyou change the way men and women relate to each other, you change the way peoples consciousness can be moved by themselves, you change their music and their dress, you change the way they relate to the land and to other forms of plants and animals, and youve got yourself a revolutionto use your word, a fuckin revolutionthatll make the politicians and power-mad people its gonna happen so fast they wont know its gonna happen. HOFFMAN: [ ] Tim, if you dont regard the four years you spent in prison as a political act, you took one trip too many. [ ][I]t was a political act. So to separate what is cultural from political when we are talking about American society in the fifties and sixties is an absolutely hopeless and ridiculous task.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #257 of 349: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:57
permalink #257 of 349: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Mon 16 Apr 07 09:57
Time has come down on Abbie's side.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #258 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 10:05
permalink #258 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 10:05
I'm not convinced that the future of mankind doesn't rest more with Leary's perspective. Hoffman lost his political war in no uncertain terms, but the culture did change, not as Leary envisioned, but with enough residual enlightenment to at least leave us with a few shards of hope for our collective future.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #259 of 349: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Mon 16 Apr 07 11:23
permalink #259 of 349: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Mon 16 Apr 07 11:23
WADR, except on a casual, wouldn't-it-be-nice basis, nobody is concerned about the future of mankind. People are concerned about their own futures and those of their kids. There is no world government, and if there was, it would concerned with the futures of the people running it and its own perpetuation. "Hoffman lost his political war in no uncertain terms, but the culture did change, not as Leary envisioned, but with enough residual enlightenment to at least leave us with a few shards of hope for our collective future." There are always an enlightened few, but we don't vote them into office very often. And most of the world's population has no political voice worth mentioning. I'm afraid that I'm as pessimistic as Vonnegut and his predecessor, Mark Twain. Leary was wrong and the culture didn't change enough to stop a war that was so obviously bugun under false pretenses, nor are people concerned enough about our nation legalizing torture and shredding our constitution to mount so much as a sustained letter writing campaign. If there were actually a cultural shift worth talking about, the media would be inundated with protest to the point where they'd actually have to acknowlege it. The photos of Abu Ghraib are online at salon.com. Go look and see what we've become.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #260 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 12:15
permalink #260 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 12:15
>>> nobody is concerned I don't think it is lack of concern, but related to this jaded ennui we've discussed in here. People don't think they can make a difference so they do nothing. We're barraged with info and horrors but there is little significant contextualization. We're all weary. The ailment is systemic and most of those at the topcorporate and politicalare content with this apathy in the little people. This updating of the Leary/Hoffman discussion is like a 'glass half-full, glass half-empty' assessment on the current state of man and what the future holds. You will not get one ounce of disagreement from me on how heinous this current administration is and how they have trammeled on the best of what this nation stands for. Bush has stirred in me all the reasons I found the hippie ethos attractive in the first place. Maybe it's only intuition, but I sense that the hippie movement was only the first stirring of a consciousness revolution that is in a state of near latency now, but which will erupt again. I don't know what it is that will precipitate this, but when this collectivist/spiritual/political/economic/lifestyle outburst occurs, I think it will be much more along the lines of Leary's observations than Hoffman's. Maybe it won't manifest itself again until there is a systemic breakdown. Maybe I'm wrong, but one can hope that an enlightened ethos will one day prevail. If not, then the best we can hope for is our own small pockets of peace.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #261 of 349: Michael Zentner (mz) Mon 16 Apr 07 13:03
permalink #261 of 349: Michael Zentner (mz) Mon 16 Apr 07 13:03
>>>I'm not convinced that the future of mankind doesn't rest more with Leary's perspective Yes, the self centered, self promoting cynical bastards. 'Twas ever thus!
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #262 of 349: Cupido, Ergo Denego (robertflink) Mon 16 Apr 07 13:04
permalink #262 of 349: Cupido, Ergo Denego (robertflink) Mon 16 Apr 07 13:04
>Go look and see what we've become.< Go look at what we have always been. I frankly don't understand the view that we transcended for a while and then fell back. Any concern for the human race needs to embrace the warts as well as the whoop dedoo. Everything else is elitist regardless of posturing to the contrary.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #263 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 16:14
permalink #263 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 16:14
>>> from Robert: "I frankly don't understand the view that we transcended for a while and then fell back. Any concern for the human race needs to embrace the warts as well as the whoop dedoo." Don't we all have those transcendent moments--collectivist and/or spiritual--where we've connected with one another, felt like we've overcome the mundane and elevated ourselves to a higher state of connectedness in our core relationships, our community, or in a gathering? I don't see this as whoop dedoo. I think it's ethereal, but not make-believe. In my mind the collectivist spirit of we-can-change-the-world hopefulness was the hippie epoch's most redeeming attribute. This was at the heart of its consciousness revolution. This push/pull between our warts and the quest for transcendence has always marked the human condition. There is ample evidence that this yearning has often been exploited to solidify elitist hierarchies, but the yearning itself is by no means inherently elitist.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #264 of 349: Cynthia D-B (peoples) Mon 16 Apr 07 18:34
permalink #264 of 349: Cynthia D-B (peoples) Mon 16 Apr 07 18:34
I can understand robertflink's skepticism, as far as the degree of importance placed on the impact of the '60s. Most every generation likes to hold its own markers of youth as having had a special significance, even if that significance isn't as evident to those of other generations. Those of us who came of age during the '60s and early '70s are no exception. The hippie era might look like a pale little blip to those who spent their youth schmoozing in Paris cafes with the likes of Miller, Stein, Nin. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that old men who fought as youth in the American Revolutionary War would roll their eyes and smile politely when -- in 1835 -- middle-aged men who'd fought in the War of 1812 reminisced about the importance to the world of the role they'd played in their youth. I suspect the question of whether the hippies made a real difference in the cultural and political path of the world since then isn't one that can be answered definitively. There's no way to have a "re-do" in the time continuum (much as many of us might wish there would be...). So instead I'll persist in talking with Scott about his book! Who do you see as making up the biggest potential audience for The Hippie Narrative? Aging hippies? Students of American literature? People interested in the cultural change of the '60s?
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #265 of 349: Ludo, Ergo Sum (robertflink) Mon 16 Apr 07 20:23
permalink #265 of 349: Ludo, Ergo Sum (robertflink) Mon 16 Apr 07 20:23
>I think it's ethereal, but not make-believe.< Our use of language plays mind games on us. We are familiar with something we label "real". Our dichotomous thinking conceives of the opposite: "ethereal". We then use the label in thinking and communicating. Soon we all(?) agree that "ethereal" is sort of real. Then we further dichotomize between "ethereal" and "make believe" and so forth. But I digress. Cynthia is right. Let's get back to the book. (I appreciate Scott indulging our digressions, however.)
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #266 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 22:20
permalink #266 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 22:20
"Ethereal" is a tough word, I agree. Language so often limits us. I'll try this: Was there a shared spirit that the hippies were able to manifest that is found suffocated in our postmodern era?
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #267 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 23:06
permalink #267 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 16 Apr 07 23:06
>>> Who do you see as making up the biggest potential audience for The Hippie Narrative? Aging hippies? Students of American literature? People interested in the cultural change of the '60s? The Hippie Narrative is a literary study that also serves as a cultural history of that era. I believe it fills a needed void. Of course, when I wrote it I wanted to imagine that the book would appeal to both a scholarly audience as well as to a general readership interested in the era. Maybe it will. Realistically, though, if the book is to sell well by academic standards, then I think it would be as a required text in American college literature classes or for American Studies or Cultural Studies courses. The book just came out six weeks ago. Now that it's out there, how well it is received and how widely it will be read is all but out of my control. Sometimes it's not the biggest audience, but the right audience. The most rewarding feedback I've received thusfar came from Gurney Norman, author of Divine Right's Trip. I hope he doesn't mind my sharing this, but his letter validated all that went into writing this book: "First, your treatise on Divine Right's Trip is great. Really, I am very impressed that you saw into the book so well, better than anyone in all the years. Your perception, your own writing style, your overview of the Counterculture subject, all truly excellent. I read your essay on DRT twice instantly. Then I began to explore the whole book, all the writers you selected, and it is clear to me that The Hippie Narrative is an important book, and indeed, a definitive contribution to American letters. Your insights into the books you treated and the era in general plow fresh ground in considering the literature of the sixties/seventies Counterculture. You have shown the impact on the national culture the Counterculture has made. So I thank you for such good work."
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #268 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Tue 17 Apr 07 03:34
permalink #268 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Tue 17 Apr 07 03:34
<scribbled>
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #269 of 349: Cupido, Ergo Sum (robertflink) Tue 17 Apr 07 06:20
permalink #269 of 349: Cupido, Ergo Sum (robertflink) Tue 17 Apr 07 06:20
>Was there a shared spirit that the hippies were able to manifest that is found suffocated in our postmodern era?< The mind wants to answer "absolutely" because it hates the idea of spirits being suffocated, particularly by the postmodern era (or any era, for that matter). Another way of putting the question would be: "Was there a pathology that the hippies were manifesting that has been eliminated by the enlightened progressive culture of modern times? Ask a loaded question and .................
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #270 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Tue 17 Apr 07 07:11
permalink #270 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Tue 17 Apr 07 07:11
>>>I'm not convinced that the future of mankind doesn't rest more with Leary's perspective >> from Michael Z: Yes, the self centered, self promoting cynical bastards. 'Twas ever thus! If you're talking about Leary as self centered, self promoting and cynical, then he and Hoffman were two peas of a pod and neither were as representative of the hippies as they made themselves out to be. For clarification, (since the extracted quote can be misconstrued), I was differentiating only what each of them said in their exchange, which distills, I think, the two major thrusts of the hippie countercultureone more dionysian/mystical/cultural, the other more neo-Marxist/overtly politicized. Talking about Leary and Hoffman in their 60s roles, whether as individuals or self-appointed spokesmen of the era, is a larger topic. There were, however, two different perceptions of "revolution" being promulgated.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #271 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Tue 17 Apr 07 07:21
permalink #271 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Tue 17 Apr 07 07:21
>>> from Robert: "Was there a pathology that the hippies were manifesting that has been eliminated by the enlightened progressive culture of modern times? Ask a loaded question and ................. I had to call around to my posse to answer this. (These guys were the perfect age to be at the party): Dubya, Rummie and Tricky Dick Cheney all convinced me that the pathology has been eradicated and (if you are rich enough) your tax cuts will enlighten you. Also, your progressiveness will warm the cockles of every living molecule of your planet. Praise the....(nevermind). Oil leave it at that.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #272 of 349: Michael Zentner (mz) Tue 17 Apr 07 08:40
permalink #272 of 349: Michael Zentner (mz) Tue 17 Apr 07 08:40
>>> Most every generation likes to hold its own markers of youth as having had a special significance, Sure, but I would put the 60's up with the Civil War in terms of resulting massive societal changes. And as a matter of fact, because of the Civil Rights movement, the two are connected.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #273 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Tue 17 Apr 07 09:00
permalink #273 of 349: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Tue 17 Apr 07 09:00
>> from mz: I would put the 60's up with the Civil War in terms of resulting massive societal changes. And as a matter of fact, because of the Civil Rights movement, the two are connected. My favorite quote from The Hippie Narrative echoes this sentiment: New York Times movie critic Karen Durbin stated in a 2001 movie review that the cultural and political upheavals of the 1960s and 70s were as traumatic and transforming in their own way as the Civil War had been a century before. But its as if we dont want to think about that time, much less risk revisiting its great and terrible vitality (Durbin, NY Times, 8/19/01).
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #274 of 349: Michael Zentner (mz) Tue 17 Apr 07 09:25
permalink #274 of 349: Michael Zentner (mz) Tue 17 Apr 07 09:25
The really critical thing about the 60's that makes it more important that almost any other time in history: the population rose up and forced the ruling class to halt a devastating war. That never happened before in America. When were the other times it happened in Europe? The only one I can think of was when the Bolsheviks took Russia out of WWI, and at that point that country was facing a total breakdown of society.
inkwell.vue.296
:
Scott MacFarlane, "The Hippie Narrative"
permalink #275 of 349: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Tue 17 Apr 07 09:58
permalink #275 of 349: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Tue 17 Apr 07 09:58
I'm not sure what that had to do with hippies or counterculture. Things only changed when the straights got tired of losing their kids for no good reason.
Members: Enter the conference to participate. All posts made in this conference are world-readable.