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permalink #76 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Mon 4 Jun 07 19:00
permalink #76 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Mon 4 Jun 07 19:00
ckridge, we're at odds on this one, but in an interesting way. I agree with you all the way up until your last paragraph. There is no neutral classification scheme. The world consists of endless attributes by which things can be said to be alike. Which attributes matter to us depends upon our interests, our project and our background. There is no one way the world is. Therefore, there is no one way to classify it. Cue the entrance of the miscellaneous! Instead of having to settle on a single sort, or even nominate one sort as the "major" or "real" one, in the digital world we can have as many as we want, simultaneously. Yours can put Che with the revolutionaries and mine can put him with the dirty Commies. Yours can put acupuncture under healing arts and mine can put it under careers to be investigated. You can put "Sounds of Silence" on a playlist of "Favorite Folk Rock" and I can put it on one called "Embarrassing Poetry." While some classifications may be wrong, there isn't a single right one, and now we don't have to act as if there is. (All classifications above for illustrative purposes only.)
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permalink #77 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 4 Jun 07 19:10
permalink #77 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 4 Jun 07 19:10
> we need to develop new principles of organization. Do you have any in mind?
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permalink #78 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Tue 5 Jun 07 04:58
permalink #78 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Tue 5 Jun 07 04:58
Thanks for the set-up, jonl! My book talks about four, although, as you'll see, they're not principles so much as broad statements of the nature of the change. So, with that caveat, here they are: 1. A leaf now can go on many branches. A physical book has to go one a single shelf, forcing us to pick one main way of categorizing it. The digital book can go in as many categories as we want. Count tags as categories, and it may go in _lots_ of categories. 2. Messiness is a virtue. The digital mess gets enriched as more content is added and more connections are made. Keeping things neat works in the real world because it makes stuff findable by manifesting their order, but digitally neatening can reduce the pile's potential for significance. 3. Everything is metadata. Instead of having to reduce information to what fits on a catalog card or a folder label, we can use the digital contents of the book or folder as search terms, as well as using every item linked to it directly or by inference, as well as using every classification layered on top of it... 4. The owners of the information no longer own the organization of it. The users do. I'm not talking about legal ownership here, which is a different question. Rather, the users get to sort and order the way they want, sometimes despite what the information providers want. Put 'em together and you get a strategy that says it's better to include and postpone...include everything you can and postpone the moment when the classification happens until the user decides how she wants to make her way through the information.
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permalink #79 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Tue 5 Jun 07 05:08
permalink #79 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Tue 5 Jun 07 05:08
By the way, Tom Matrullo has some beautiful examples of how the line between data and metadata is being eroded: http://tinyurl.com/2gze2u
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permalink #80 of 155: Harmless drudge (ckridge) Tue 5 Jun 07 06:29
permalink #80 of 155: Harmless drudge (ckridge) Tue 5 Jun 07 06:29
Who controls syndetic structure? Synedetic structure is the set of relationships between tags. The "See" and "See also" references in a thesaurus, index, or catalog are syndetic structure. Subordination of one tag under another, with "See also" references running down but not up the hierarchy is another kind of syndetic structure. Scope and disambiguation notes explaining how similar tags are distinguished from one another are still another kind. So long as people are just slapping tags on things, you have happy anarchy, and I can tag the Armenian genocide "myth" and you "history" and we will both be happy. But if I can get control of the syndetic structure, I can make sure that searches for information on the Armenian genocide also pull up information on Atlantis and visitors from space who built the pyramids. This will color the topic by association.
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permalink #81 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Tue 5 Jun 07 07:02
permalink #81 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Tue 5 Jun 07 07:02
ckridge, anyone can control the synedetic structure, can't she? (Never heard the term before. Thanks.) So, flickr controls its clustering algorithm that pulls together photos of the island of Capri and of the Ford Capri. It's easy to imagine - through bad programming, or through "flickr bombing" - the "terrorist" cluster including photos of Bush or (if surrealists invaded the site) Bert and Ernie. (Yes, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking about the Osama-Bert photos from a a few years ago.) But someone else could derive and publish a different synedetic structure, which is what happens in mashups. Likewise, the American Medical Association could compile its own encyclopedia by picking the versions of articles in Wikipedia that pass its muster. The American Alternative Medicines Council could so likewise. The miscellaneousness of information affords multiple, simultaneous synedetic structures. That means that we don't have to have just one, putting one view and the institition backing that view into control. (And now I'm going to get on a train for a few hours, a highly non-miscellaneous means of transportation.)
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permalink #82 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Tue 5 Jun 07 09:01
permalink #82 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Tue 5 Jun 07 09:01
This reminds me of Peter Morville's comment in his review of the book... "we must all be more aware, as consumers and creators, of the incentives, biases, and weaknesses inherent in all sources and structures of authority and knowledge." http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/000167.php
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permalink #83 of 155: Harmless drudge (ckridge) Tue 5 Jun 07 12:11
permalink #83 of 155: Harmless drudge (ckridge) Tue 5 Jun 07 12:11
We must, but there is no easy escape. Look, take the simplest, weakest form of syndetic structure, establishing synonyms. No authority terms, no broad or narrow terms, just establishing two terms as closely related, so that if you are interested in one, you are likely to be interested in the other. Suppose a system like the one proposed above, in which tidy-minded people can mark tags as synonymous, and other users can vote for or against the association. So long as the association is in place, when you use either term, you get everything under the other term too. This is as much as we are likely to be able to get out of a user-run tagging system any time in the near future. Now, what is different about marking terms as synonymous is that you can't have it both ways. Two terms are either synonyms or they aren't. You can give a piece of information contradictory tags, but two tags cannot be both synonymous and non-synonymous. This turns out to be important. Now suppose that someone, also as suggested above, notices that items pertaining to the USA are scattered among "USA", "United States of America", "United States", and "America". She marks all those terms as synonymous. Fine, right? Not if you are Canadian or Mexican, it isn't. So the Canadians and Mexicans vote that association of terms right down. Then the US citizens, likely not even understanding why one-fourth of their information has disappeared, put it back. And so on, and so on, forever, with one-fourth of the available information sometimes available and sometimes not. Now consider a biographical database; there are a bunch of them on the Web. If someone wants to tag the article on George W. Bush "War criminals," that is tolerable, because people looking for information on Bush who don't think he is a war criminal need not ever see the tag. But what happens when you make the tag "Bush, George W." synonymous with "War criminals", and you get all your friends to vote for it? That is not permitting everyone to have their own view of the matter; it is enforcing propagation of that particular view. Syndetic structure is metadata about metadata. Who controls it controls how metadata are associated, and thus has disproportionate control over how information is associated. Further, syndetic structure is largely invisible, operating behind the scenes, and can thus go unnoticed or unchanged for a long time.
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permalink #84 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Tue 5 Jun 07 13:12
permalink #84 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Tue 5 Jun 07 13:12
I'm not clear why the association must exist (or wouldn't be optional), and why we suppose that there's a vote to "elect" synonyms. That would seem more a condition of top-down, second order, non-miscellaneous order, no?
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permalink #85 of 155: bill braasch (bbraasch) Tue 5 Jun 07 13:44
permalink #85 of 155: bill braasch (bbraasch) Tue 5 Jun 07 13:44
the idea that villains might gain control of the metadata about metadata seems about as likely to me as nations adopting facsism for their own good. that makes it pretty scary. there will always be guerillas though, and over time the mood will change, perhaps the media will shift and something new will come to be. I think about tags as generational markers. weed is no longer weeds in our generation, but its not weed anymore in our kids' generation either. I was at a parents meeting before a high school trip to Cuba and there was a kid there who'd been to Cuba the year before. He had a different word for the stuff you weren't supposed to bring to Cuba. The kids understood but the parents had to ask what the word meant. They were talking about boo. words adapt to the meanings we put around them. so I wonder if Cheney's marking up a list of metadata about metadata for his daily spin right now. He'd like to own our syndetic structure.
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permalink #86 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Tue 5 Jun 07 14:34
permalink #86 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Tue 5 Jun 07 14:34
All of this is beside the point. In the future metadata will come from (be gathered from, in secondary queries) from multiple _unlimited_ sources (some individual, some aggregated and sources both controlled and uncontrolled), and will be aggregated together with data brought in from primary queries. This metadata will come in many classes, far beyond the simple keyword metatagging that we see emerging today. Furthermore these classes of metadata will be associated (or more accurately associateable - this association itself being editable at a lower level) with a wide array of visual, behavioral, and spatial attributes, each of which will be freely interactive (Full On, Full Off, or anywhere in between). Such a system will be usable in a passive manner, or in an interactive manner. Sets of combined metadata types/associated attributes will be saveable and passed around. One will be able to issue queries (or have them set up to run automatically (what's on YouTube tonight) and have these run through one or more of these filters. At any point a person could then, simply by interacting with a one-axis control, cycle between full on and full off for certain attributes, yielding "visual behavior" in the dense visualized field or swarm. Other tools will easily sweep through these visualizations allowing easy picking for opening up and examining source data or media.
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permalink #87 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Tue 5 Jun 07 15:06
permalink #87 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Tue 5 Jun 07 15:06
And the idea of "bad" or "purposely misleading" metadata identifies an actual problem, but the answer is in gathering metadata from numerous independent sources to be brought together with data returned by primary queries. Then methods such as reputation filtering and source identification can be used to examine how visualizations of large datasets change when the metadata sources themselves are turned on and off or grouped in different ways. There's no such thing as "truth" in static datasets or visualizations. Interaction equals understanding. More interaction and more exploration equals greater insight into the patterns and interrelationships in large datasets and search results. Another level of interaction comes from determining equivalencies of terms or values encoded by metadata. Disambiguation of keyword-type metadata can be handled by presenting known meanings, and the metadata itself may eventually come with disambiguation means (meta-metadata), which itself may come from yet other sources (via pointers or aliases or registries.) Some ambiguity can be avoided by allowing people to choose from large sets of metadata types. Let's say Fred is surfing the web. Fred has installed the MetaHelper plugin for Firefox. Fred comes across a film he's seen. Fred goes up to the pulldown and selects MetaHelper, which pulls down a secondary long scrollable list of types of metadata. He selects "Ten Star Rating" and a dialog appears asking him to select between 0 and 10. Fred likes this film and gives it an 8. This metadata is then registered at a third location, with links to the film. Later on, Susan, whose swapped out her crappy flat desktop for VizSpace, issues a query for Top Movies of Summer 2010. Instantly the visualization space that used to be her flat crappy desktop fills with an array or swarm of hits. Her query also automatically included one or more secondary metaqueries, which ask the net something on the order of "Who's got something to say about these search results?" and a great deal of (different types and classes of) metadata are brought in (from multiple, independent sources). If this were a type of query that might be repeated very often (like "What's On tonight?"), Susan might have some standard metadata/associated attribute filter sets already set up and going to work passively. If so, her visualization of returned search results may have already configured itself into a unique form. Susan spots several large spheres. Susan knows because she's familiar with this filter set that spheres represent action movies, and size/scale represents the current box office returns. The three biggest spheres in the swarm of 10,000 in the visualization represent the big films everyone's talking about. She guesses this even before she cursors across the visualization revealing their labels. But Susan isn't interested in these blockbusters. Susan wants to know what the "blockbusters" are among her group of online friends. She pulls the levers down for the metadata/associated attributes tracking box office, and jiggles the metadata/associated attribute control for films people in her group of friends have rated. Hmmmmm, looks like Susan's friends aren't such big fans of these action blockbusters. An entirely new group of elements emerge from within the visualization to show prominence. The combinations and permutations of this methodology are endless. But this is how much larger sets of data can be easily explored and sought-after targets retrieved. The keys to this powerful information future lies in this type of metadata usage and interactive visualization capabilities that are built right into the fabric of our computing experience. <http://www.well.com/user/jleft/orbit/vizrev/slides/5.html> <http://www.well.com/user/jleft/orbit/vizrev/slides/8.html>
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permalink #88 of 155: Jef Poskanzer (jef) Tue 5 Jun 07 17:21
permalink #88 of 155: Jef Poskanzer (jef) Tue 5 Jun 07 17:21
Or we could just go with TiVo-style thumbs up / thumbs down feeding an invisible collaborative filtering / reputation management / recommendation system.
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permalink #89 of 155: bill braasch (bbraasch) Tue 5 Jun 07 19:08
permalink #89 of 155: bill braasch (bbraasch) Tue 5 Jun 07 19:08
Jon Carroll's column today talks about master narrative. This describes the effect I suggested up there in 85. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi- bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/05/DDGITP18DH1.DTL&hw=jon+carroll&sn=001&sc=100 0 or for the tinyurlers http://tinyurl.com/2set45 his context is the OJ trial, and the medium was not of course web 2.0, but the idea is the same. who has the real picture of anything? it depends.
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permalink #90 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Wed 6 Jun 07 06:57
permalink #90 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Wed 6 Jun 07 06:57
Yikes. You get on a train and are off the Net for a day, and all sorts of constructive hell breaks loose. It makes me think that my staying out of this conversation would be the best way for me to contribute. Wow. I love this thread. Unsurprisingly, ckridge, my views are more in sympathy with jleft. I disagree with you on two (semi-)factual matters: The best tagging systems have done so far is generate synonyms, and things either are synonyms or they're not. Tagging systems allow us to discover clusters of related terms, not just synonyms. Lots of sites do this well already, although it's an area where there's always going to be room for improvement. E.g., search on a tag at Technorati and it will suggest "related tags," with varying degrees of accuracy. The tag McCain" has as related tags: bush, politics, iraq, republicans, democrats, 2008, republican, law, torture, and immigration. This is an impressive list, but none is a synonym. It'd be more impressive if technorati knew what the relationships were, but I think over time, it will get better at this. As for synonyms: the ambiguity of language is (imo) its strength, not its weakness. Oh, at times it gets in our way, but without it, language is mere codebook. So, yes, we're going to disagree about who the Americans are. But with tagging, folksonomies, etc., the system can maintain multiple meanings, and allow each of us (or, better, multiple groups) to view it in ways that make sense to them. Folksonomies are not mere bottom-up taxonomies that give us a single way of categorizing, albeit one from The People. Rather, the value of a folksonomy is (imo, as always) that it knows not only that 75% of users think America=USA, but also that 25% don't. ckridge, you and I seem to differ on some fundamentals. E.g., I think the world is fundamentally ambiguous, so clarifying and settling are often reductions of truth, not enhancements of it. Is this where we disagree? Or do we in fact not disagree all that much after all?
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permalink #91 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 6 Jun 07 08:26
permalink #91 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 6 Jun 07 08:26
Well, here's my two cents' worth... I looked for del.icio.us' methodology for determining which tags are related - evidently for any bookmark, they make suggestions based on tags others have used for the same item (or a similar item? not sure how they would assess similarity). I think they also determine which tags are most often used with other tags to come up with even more related tags. Bottom line: they're looking at association, not meaning, in determining those relationships. In a social tagging environment, it wouldn't strike me as a "best practice" to enforce primacy of a synonmym based on meaning, even if a preffered synonym was identified by popular boat (aka, sometimes, "tyranny of the majority"). Instead we show relationships based on adjacency. The good news is that, in tagging, you could use both USA and America, and they would both be meaningful because they're related, not because they're synonymous. I've definitely been in discussions of folksonomy where the question of a need for an authoritative label has come up, and I think the consensus is usually, ultimately, that it's unnecessary and not a good fit for the kind of environment we've created. Sometimes groups will determine a label that all will use to relate a bunch of tags... we do that for conferences, for tagging material relevant to a specific conference, but there we want a label that others are not likely to use. Clay Shirky says "ontology is overrated" http://www.shirky.com/writings/ontology_overrated.html At the conclusion of his paper, Clay says "It's all dependent on human context. This is what we're starting to see with del.icio.us, with Flickr, with systems that are allowing for and aggregating tags. The signal benefit of these systems is that they don't recreate the structured, hierarchical categorization so often forced onto us by our physical systems. Instead, we're dealing with a significant break -- by letting users tag URLs and then aggregating those tags, we're going to be able to build alternate organizational systems, systems that, like the Web itself, do a better job of letting individuals create value for one another, often without realizing it."
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permalink #92 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Wed 6 Jun 07 09:20
permalink #92 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Wed 6 Jun 07 09:20
Jon, I was saying something very similar beginning back in the early 1990s, when I presented the InfoSpace paper at 3CyberConf (which is when I met you), and througout the 1990s. This was before metatagging emerged on the web, and so my arguments weren't against controlled taxonomies of tags, but against the "indexed view," or "centralized oganization" of data. I (wrongly) assumed that as soon as metadata appeared, that it would be (what later would come to be called) folksonomies (in addition to being decentralized and gatherable from multiple sources). Topic 327 [wired]: (jleft)'s Prophecy: The Visualization Revolution #6 of 77: doing 'n somethingness (jleft) Sun Jan 3 '99 (19:22) 80 lines - - - cut - - - Another big fallacy is the notion that in order to tame the information age we must index it and establish an order for the interrelationships between things. I call this the Yahoo view of the infoverse. Cone-tree visualizers, hyperbolic tree browsers, Apple's Project X and the like are all attempts to draw lines between symbols for things. This is another form of information fascism. It's not that these might not be valid categorizations of organizations of information, but that they infer a sense of "this is the way it is"-ness that is, in reality, only *one* way of seeing things. The phrase "information wants to be free" means something different to me than I think it does to others. To me it means that information wants to be free of the shackles of authoritative index. Through the use of metainformation, both that attached to pieces of information and secondary, decentralized sources that make reference to other things, it's possible to construct informational views that do not eminate from centralized sources. - - - Topic 327 [wired]: (jleft)'s Prophecy: The Visualization Revolution #29 of 77: doing 'n somethingness (jleft) Mon Jan 4 '99 (22:09) 83 lines - - - cut - - - Here's my basic take on the major difference between my InfoSpace concept and most other information visualizers such as Xerox PARC's cone tre visualizer, Apple's fly-through hiearchical database Project X, and I *suspect* (but I'm not sure) the database app. you're referring to. Most visualizers presuppose that it's a necessary/given thing that we've indexed or structured/filtered the database in a hierarchical and categorical manner. Now while I understand the utility and validity of this approach to organizing information, it's not necessarily the only way or best way depending on what how you wish to utilize the dataset. In fact, in order to explore and examine all the infinite myriad of interrelationships that exist in complex data systems, it's almost imperative that you unhook (or free) the individual content-oriented data objects from a rigid index or order, as these are generally organized from a singular point of view or source. In InfoSpace, which is actually *your* InfoSpace (as you control the space in which you retrieve, collect, and visualize information) a fixed indexing or ordering of information, while possible, would be only one way to organize one's assembled data. I discuss how such an personal InfoSpace can work in conjunction with the shared/agreed-upon data representations/structures that represent most of the information in cyberspace today in my Metaverses vs. Myverses slide. This slide is among a number of discussion slides that I've uploaded to my WELL website. These were created for a presentation and panel discussion that I participated in at ISEA97, held at the Chicago Art Institute in September 1997. They help me describe visually and symbolically some of the concepts and insights in my work. - - - Metaverses vs. Myverses http://www.well.com/user/jleft/orbit/vizrev/slides/2.html
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permalink #93 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 6 Jun 07 14:58
permalink #93 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 6 Jun 07 14:58
Whenever somebody brings up "information wants to be free," I feel compelled to offer the entire quote: "On the one hand information wants to be expensive, because it's so valuable. The right information in the right place just changes your life. On the other hand, information wants to be free, because the cost of getting it out is getting lower and lower all the time. So you have these two fighting against each other." Of course, information doesn't really want anything, including liberation. It's all about what we want. There's another old saying, "people don't want drills, they want holes." Similarly, perhaps "people don't want information, they want meaning." Part of meaning is order, and I think what David's been talking about really is liberating - and the liberation is of information from rigid ontologies and taxonomies. You don't have to have a bread crumb trail if you can store your locations and teleport.
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permalink #94 of 155: Credo, Ergo Dubito (robertflink) Wed 6 Jun 07 15:54
permalink #94 of 155: Credo, Ergo Dubito (robertflink) Wed 6 Jun 07 15:54
>E.g., I think the world is fundamentally ambiguous, so clarifying and settling are often reductions of truth, not enhancements of it.< Also clarifying and settling can be a way of backing into essences, a fairly obvious effort to project "structure" onto "reality". OTOH, humans can be confused to the point of adding more ambiguity to the fundamental ambiguity. >Similarly, perhaps "people don't want information, they want meaning."< Which may be be a code word for power including power over the feeling of disorder that must be lingering in the subconsciousness in an ambiguous world. We may also think that if information can be useful to accomplish a practical, limited objectives, we can organize information in some grand, divine manner, arrive at ultimate meaning and banish ambiguity forever. Such a program will be able to capture a following as long as there are humans, as we know them, on the earth.
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permalink #95 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Wed 6 Jun 07 16:14
permalink #95 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Wed 6 Jun 07 16:14
> Of course, information doesn't really want anything, including liberation. > It's all about what we want. There's another old saying, "people don't want > drills, they want holes." Similarly, perhaps "people don't want information, > they want meaning." It's true that people want meaning, and want ways to uncover it. But it doesn't follow that people *are only searching for meaning* when exploring and examining information. That's related to what I call the "Needle In the Haystack" myth. And that's that searches are limited to trying to find a "needle" in a large amount of completely discardable "hay" (other results). I suggest that exploring (visually, by means of metadata associated visual and behavioral attributes) that one can learn a great deal about the larger context in which the information exists by interactively asking different metadata questions to the "hay." And thereby not only see where information is coming from, but what context it's coming from, and also distributed sought-after targets that might not otherwise be popped up to the top of some boiled-down search results list. Bear in mind that there are many goals in interacting with information sets. Discovering meaning is just one of them. > Part of meaning is order, and I think what David's been talking about really > is liberating - and the liberation is of information from rigid ontologies and > taxonomies. You don't have to have a bread crumb trail if you can store > your locations and teleport. And I fully agree, and have for a long time. That, and a number of related concepts are essentially what I've been saying all along. I took great exception with the notion of the Metaverse, as described in Neal Stephenson's book, "Snow Crash." In my slide about the Myth of "Downtown Cyberspace," I described the ludicrous notion that there's a fixed structure to any cyberspace place or location. A particular structure or layout to any informational set can definitely exist, but if this itself is but a set of parameters configured by setting the supporting metadata to a particular way, then interacting with those controls can instantly *rearrange* one's data. It's not the map that's fixed. It's the individual viewer's centrality, with the data being able to be rearranged and re-explored along different metadata parameters at will, and in an interactive activity. In this type of model, a central, shared view can still be had by all, but it comes from people running the same filters and filter settings. It's order, without the need to claim one configuration of meaning is *the* main one.
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permalink #96 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Wed 6 Jun 07 16:20
permalink #96 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Wed 6 Jun 07 16:20
> Whenever somebody brings up "information wants to be free," I > feel compelled to offer the entire quote. But Jon, I prefaced my use of it specifically to avoid confusion with either its real origin (which you've posted), as well as the common misconceptions about the statement. It was essentially a play on the words, if you will. I should've made that more explicit, I see.
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permalink #97 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Wed 6 Jun 07 16:49
permalink #97 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Wed 6 Jun 07 16:49
I'd like to address a bit deeper this concept that "people are searching for meaning," which seems to be presented by Jon as exclusionary of other things (I'm not entirely certain what "information" is in the context that he puts forth that people don't want). I think it's a bit of a strawman in this discussion. Among the many things I like in David's writings is the concept of "messiness is good." I'll postulate that two complimentary statements to that: Both are related to the old wisdom saying, "It's the journey, not the destination." 1) The goal is not (necessarily) to arrive at a single point/piece/truth/meaning, but rather gain ever more and deeper understandings of the contextual interrelationships in which any particular piece of information, media file, subject, object, or set exists. (not particularly concise, but I want to fully capture the different facets of what I'm putting forth). 2) It's only through continued interaction (interactive questioning, via manipulating the way metadata is used to support swarm or cluster visualizations) that will allow us to progressively gain that type of higher-level understanding of where things are coming from, and what their interrelationships are. It's only after we open up points from within these mass visualizations that we're back at our historically familar level of dealing with information, which is a file, a piece of media, an idea, etc.. We live today in a terribly myopic infoverse. The reason everyone is so obsessed with nailing down the definitive meaning of things, or categorization/organization, or definitive keywords is that we don't have an overview level of interacting with information. Thus, we want authorities, or AI, or Google to "think for us," and give us that needle, or "meaning." In a certain sense, these are definitely valid desires and goals for our informational activities. But they are not the only goals. And meanwhile, our information age is not sufficiently giving us tools to leverage the parts of our brain that we use *pre-cognitively* to navigate and understand a fabuously rich and dynamic real world around us. Our visual cortex instantly, and without conscious cognition, processes the vast complexity of trees, grass, buildings, environments, clouds, etc.. Billions of times greater in complexity than our written language and current computer technology has presented to us. This is because historical language and symbology for encoding meaning operates at a bandwidth far less than we've evolve to function visually in the world. And this is why I've stated that interactive visualizations will eventually support a new level of "awareness" that's missing from the current information experience. And it will be build atop metadata, and will embody many of the things David is discussing, but at a level much more complex than the simple keyword tags that have emerged as the first embodiments of internet-based metadata.
inkwell.vue.300
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David Weinberger, Everything is Miscellaneous
permalink #98 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 6 Jun 07 19:08
permalink #98 of 155: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 6 Jun 07 19:08
> But it > doesn't follow that people *are only searching for meaning* when exploring > and examining information. I may just be dense, and missing something in your posts, Jim, but I don't see where you've suggested what people are searching for in exploring information, other than meaning. Is the new level of awareness you suggest beyond meaning?
inkwell.vue.300
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David Weinberger, Everything is Miscellaneous
permalink #99 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Wed 6 Jun 07 19:09
permalink #99 of 155: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Wed 6 Jun 07 19:09
Yes, tags are just one embodiment. They happen to make for a particularly useful example, just as Wikipedia does. But they are just examples. Just for one other f'instance, I just blogged about a video demo of Photosynth, which poulls together photos from Flickr to build composite images of oft-photoed spots, and also pulls together the metadata of those photos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-DqZ8jAmv0. This is not much like tagging, except that it notices likenesses and builds something greater out of the pieces. And, if nothing else, it's a great demo.
inkwell.vue.300
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David Weinberger, Everything is Miscellaneous
permalink #100 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Wed 6 Jun 07 20:05
permalink #100 of 155: James Leftwich, IDSA (jleft) Wed 6 Jun 07 20:05
Wow, that PhotoSynth demo is astonishing. Really excellent work. The part that I think represents a good opportunity to probe some of the visualization ideas I described was the cathedral surrounded by the small points, each representing a point from which a photo was taken. Okay, so those points are already spatially arranged in what's essentially a realistic mapping in the area around that cathedral. It appeared (hard to tell), that as he cursored around through them, there were little perpspective lines that reached up to the composite 3D cathedral image (that was cool!). But now let's assume that at the bottom of the screen there are also controls that allow the user to vary other visual and behavioral attributes based on other known/gathered (again, perhaps from other sources) about those individual points. For example, the color of the dots may be mapped to the type of camera. Or a metaquery to highlight Nikons may lead to various scattered dots sparkling. Another attribute may track metadata for how many known photographs are available from the various photographers represented by those dots. So perhaps that metadata is associated with the visual attribute of height. So then we see the dots as thin poles of different heights. That high pole over there? We sweep and open that source and see that it's a very prolific photographer, and can then (if desired) go off in that direction to look at his or her photos. Or add that to a collection list to sort through later. The reason I find it hard to get into a discussion of "meaning," is that I'm not sure how meaning fits into this kind of exploration. It's a useful kind of exploratory activity, and reveals much that may be hidden *in any one single view*. And this is why I see this all leading to the conclusion that it's all about ongoing interaction. While the other demos in that video were very cool, and very useful, it was the one that showed both abstract representations of the sources themselves that were closest to the *additional layer* of metadata-supported exploration that I advocate. Great link! So many great things shown at TED.
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