Inkwell: Authors and Artists
Topic 312: Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #76 of 154: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Sun 18 Nov 07 10:39
permalink #76 of 154: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Sun 18 Nov 07 10:39
Steve, you have the footage. You've certainly seen more of Jimi than any of us. Is this making sense to you?
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #77 of 154: Tim Fox (timfox) Sun 18 Nov 07 10:55
permalink #77 of 154: Tim Fox (timfox) Sun 18 Nov 07 10:55
It's my impression that towards the end of his life, he started getting away from the stunts - playing the guitar with his teeth, behind his back, etc. Am I correct in thinking that?
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #78 of 154: Ed Ward (captward) Sun 18 Nov 07 10:58
permalink #78 of 154: Ed Ward (captward) Sun 18 Nov 07 10:58
Well, those are chitlin' circuit antics, and I think he was hoping to be taken more seriously as a musician and leave shit like that to the many disciples of Guitar Slim.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #79 of 154: Steven Roby (jimijames) Sun 18 Nov 07 11:22
permalink #79 of 154: Steven Roby (jimijames) Sun 18 Nov 07 11:22
>>When Jimi set his guitar on fire at Monterey, was it a spontaneous act of showmanship, or was it a reaction to having watched seen the reaction to the destruction that Townshend and Daltry wreaked in closing their set? Jimi had set his guitar on fire once before in England (1967) from what sounded like a dare by reporter Keith Altham. Too bad no photos exist. According to Eric Burden, at Monterey, Jimi's guitar B-B-Q was more of a shaman ritual. Burden talks about seeing Hendrix paint his guitar in great detail the day before outside his motel. Bobby Womack says that Jimi used to set his guitar on fire while on the Chitlin' Circuit, and that they'd keep a blanket ready to smolder it. Again, no photos. So, I don't feel it was in anyway a reaction to Townshend. In the new Who Documentary, you can see that Pete was doing the same guitar antics at about the same Jimi was in the states, although I've never seen Pete play it with his teeth. >>It's my impression that towards the end of his life, he started getting away from the stunts - playing the guitar with his teeth, behind his back, etc. Am I correct in thinking that? To a point. If you have a chance, watch the 1970 Atlanta Pop or Isle of Wight footage. Jimi seems bored playing the "old" songs, but that's what the crowd cried out for. There's less jumping around, and I don't feel he was satisfied with the tone he was getting. You can see the frustration. The new songs were quite different, and since they hadn't been released, crowd reaction is mild. Jimi was in a rut that summer; the record buying public's last "new" Hendrix record was a greatest hits LP, and that came out over a year ago. Unlike today, there was no way fans could know all the different projects he had been working.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #80 of 154: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sun 18 Nov 07 11:35
permalink #80 of 154: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sun 18 Nov 07 11:35
I think part of what we're seeing in this discussion is that Hendrix was not the product of any one scene -- a bit of this, a bit of that, and more than a bit of genius. And he also emerged at a time when the music industry was wide open to whatever seemed to appeal to an audience that the old pros in the business clearly did not understand. Unfortunately, I don't think a lot of us really understood what we were looking at in Jimi Hendrix either, at least not those of us who were on the younger or less sophisticated end of the audience. I had never heard of Guitar Slim or T-Bone Walker at the time, and I'm sure most people thought that Jimi Hendrix made up all that guitar-playing-behind-the-head stuff. One of the ironies of the way Hendrix was viewed is that a guy who was genuinely very deeply rooted in black music was sometimes criticized for being cut off from the black audience. I guess part of that was because he was rooted in a tradition that appealed more to older black adults and was thus pretty much off the radar screen for most people. Complicated stuff, music history. One of the poignant things about Hendrix's life is you get the sense that if the times he lived in hadn't been so chaotic, if his life wasn't so full of rip-offs and hangers on and pseudo-mystical bullshit, he might have gotten his feet under him and gone onto a decades-long career. He's often lumped together with Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison because they died at roughly the same age and near the same time, but you get the feeling that if you could re-wind the tape a few times, Hendrix would survive, while the conclusion of the story in the cases of Joplin and Morrison seems pretty much inevitable.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #81 of 154: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Sun 18 Nov 07 12:01
permalink #81 of 154: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Sun 18 Nov 07 12:01
Interesting. I think you're right about his death. I see it as an avoidable accident, too, and agree that Morrison and Joplin were doomed. "And he also emerged at a time when the music industry was wide open to whatever seemed to appeal to an audience that the old pros in the business clearly did not understand." I hold that he was the reverse image of Elvis. An attractive and talented black guy who could play white peoples' music.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #82 of 154: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sun 18 Nov 07 12:57
permalink #82 of 154: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sun 18 Nov 07 12:57
There's definitely some truth to that, but I think of him more as an attractive and intelligent guy who could play Jimi Hendrix music. ;-) I sorta put him in the same category as, say, Lester Young. There were a lot of other great sax players... some of whom might have been as good as Lester Young or even better in their own style... and there were others who could even kinda sorta sound like Lester Young, at least for a tune or two. And then there's Lester Young. Now granted, my own musical experience is confined to some long-ago childhood piano lessons, so my perspective is that of a fairly sophisticated music fan, not a guitar player.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #83 of 154: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sun 18 Nov 07 12:58
permalink #83 of 154: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sun 18 Nov 07 12:58
And besides, isn't Chuck Berry, a black guy playing country music, the anti-Elvis. :-)
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #84 of 154: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sun 18 Nov 07 13:15
permalink #84 of 154: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sun 18 Nov 07 13:15
<<"I don't think he was a hippie. He changed his mode of dress, and he did psychedelics, but his lifestyle excesses weren't all that different than Elvis's or James Brown's, though he does appear to have been a nicer guy than either of them. He had the wherewithall to live the libertine life, and he did so. By the time he hit, the true hippies had left the Haight for Bolinas, "the Farm', and points more rural. My point was that you have to see him as an entertainer as much as a musician, and it would be as instructive to investigate the traditions of entertainers as those of musicians.">> Rik, I agree completely about the need to view Jimi both from the angle of the entertainer as that of a unique musician. I would suggest, however, that you've defined "hippie" too narrowly. Of course he wasn't a back-to-the-land, disenchanted, laid back, California "true" hippie. And as you aptly state, he lived a libertine life. Jimi was, from 1966 to 1970, on an entertainer's treadmill that arguably killed him. And, of course, most hippies were middle-class white kids not fighting for enfranchisement, but rejecting the straight values of the system. Jimi's upbringing and young adult path were more conflicted than this, but I think you can consider Hendrix, along with Lee and Sly as black hippies. If we look at the hippie movement, as many do, as essentially Dionysian, and rock music as the core mode of artistic expression emanating from the era, then I can't think of any single rock star more like Dionysus than Jimi Hendrix. Like Dionysus, he goes abroad (England) and returns (to America) to help lure the Bacchae/maenads from the City-State to the mountain flowing with wine and honey. [If Hendrix best embodies the spirit of Dionysus, then we can look at the hippies you refer to as the maenads. And, of course, all too soon Jimi will chop down that mountain with the edge of his hand. [A similar argument can be made for the Beatles (and other rock musicians) as playing this Dionysian role, as well.] Jimi was a product, as Mark alludes, of many bits and pieces of experiences and talent. He came of age when America, on many fronts, was in turmoil. Jimi past influences notwithstanding, he was, I believe, an amplified embodiment of a new consciousness. I think Jimi wholeheartedly embraced the new peace & love ethos and that this wasn't an act. Steve quotes Jimi's girlfriend, Faye Pridgeon, in 1964: "he chain-smoked, ate badly, and never dressed adequately for the weather, but had a warmth, that none of the other fast-rapping dudes had." Later, I also think Jimi tried to minimize involvement in the politicized Black Power movement, though in many ways he agreed with the aims. Maybe, this was because his managers discouraged such association, but I think it had more to do with the fact that this wasn't the way Jimi wanted to engage the world. I think Jimi's song "If 6 were 9" is anthemic of an individualistic stance that was also very much Dionysian in its opposition to the "Apollonian" establishment: Got my own world to live through And I aint gonna copy you. if six turned out to be nine Oh I dont mind, I dont mind If all the hippies cut off all their hair Oh I dont care, oh I dont care. Dig. cause Ive got my own world to live through and uh, huh And I aint gonna copy you. White collar conservative flashin down the street Pointing their plastic finger at me, ha ! They're hoping soon my kind will drop and die but I'm gonna wave my freak flag high, high ! Don't nobody know what I'm talkin about I've got my own life to live I'm the one that's gonna die when its time for me to die So let me live my life the way I want to Yeah, sing on brother, play on drummer Also, Jimi's version of "The Star Spangled Banner" especially when segued with "Machine Gun" in how it satirizes, non-verbally, the national anthem, has been called the most anthemic song of the late '60s era, and artistically brilliant. Jimi expressed his anger and frustrations through his music, but, as much as he could ground himself, it was with his core warmth and sweet underlying demeanor. And I'm not convinced that his sense of mysticism was bullshit, either. In addition to all the places, experiences, and musical traditions that shaped Jimi, I'm convinced that psychedelics shaped him and his mystical outlook as well. His music (and an overt political stance) offered a nonrational defiance to the straight world. His listeners widely embraced his plane of expression in a nonrational, but powerful way. If I had to vote for who was the most Dionysian rock star of this wildly Dionysian time, Jimi would get my vote.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #85 of 154: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Sun 18 Nov 07 13:19
permalink #85 of 154: "The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Sun 18 Nov 07 13:19
Nope. He was a nice try, and he did give us some great tunes and Keith Richards, but he didn't pull crowds of half a million or more. The time wasn't right and he didn't have that paradoxical image of dangerous, but not TOO dangerous. Steve, that's fascinating stuff about his guitar-burning prior to Monterey. Now I have to ask myself if the Who lifted their destructive style of dodging an encore from Jimi. When you did the event at Bananas at Large, you showed some great footage of the Royal Albert Hall concert and riot, and I could swear that I saw John Entwhistle in some of the audience shots. Now this was post-Monterey, and I suspect that Jimi felt that he had to up the ante for shock value. It wasn't a sacrificial guitar-burning anymore. He was using his guitar to tear up the Marshalls and smashing the Strat on the stage, Townshend style. For a guy who really was a supertalent, that had to be getting old by then. It does buttress my theory that it was showmanship and image that pulled in the biggest portion of the ticket and record buyers and that folks like (mcdee) and me, who are more musically oriented and who could appreciate the stunning level of chops were a minority. He had to know it, and it had to hurt.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #86 of 154: Street Figthing Man (carolw) Sun 18 Nov 07 15:49
permalink #86 of 154: Street Figthing Man (carolw) Sun 18 Nov 07 15:49
rik, was that a slip? Hendrix may have been a hippie or hippie-esque, but it appears that he was a damned hard worker. The years on the chitlin circuit, then the concert tours, sound grueling. And yet whenever he had a break, there he was in the studio or rounding up musicians to jam with. How did he have time to seduce all those women, much less eat or sleep?
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #87 of 154: Gary Lambert (almanac) Sun 18 Nov 07 16:33
permalink #87 of 154: Gary Lambert (almanac) Sun 18 Nov 07 16:33
<scribbled by almanac Sun 18 Nov 07 16:46>
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #88 of 154: Gary Lambert (almanac) Sun 18 Nov 07 16:46
permalink #88 of 154: Gary Lambert (almanac) Sun 18 Nov 07 16:46
>Now I have to ask myself if the Who lifted their destructive >style of dodging an encore from Jimi No, The Who started doing the smashola thing in their club days, which I'm pretty sure predate Jimi's arrival in England. Antonioni wanted Pete and the boys to duplicate their act in "Blow-Up," but it didn't work out for some reason, so he wound up with the Yardbirds, with Jeff Beck doing the demolition shtick. I always suspected that the overtly psychedelic trappings of Jimi's act were at least in part calculated marketing... as though Chas Chandler or Mike Jeffrey or somebody saw this tremendously talented and charismatic blues/R&B player and came up with what was essentially the flip side of Sam Phillips' famous "if I could find a white man who can sing black..." -- in essence, "if I could find a black man who can sing hippie..." I was not an immediate fan of Jimi in part because of that stuff. The psychedelic jive and exhibitionism got in the way of apprecicating his genuine musical talent for me. I wasn't alone in those initial misgivings. Although the performance at Monterey has taken on legendary status in retrospect, it was far from universally embraced in real time. Several of the contemporaneous accounts of the festival (including what was probably the most widely read one nationally, Bob Christgau's piece in Esquire) featured out-and-out pans of Jimi, deeming the tongue-flicking and eye-rolling part of a "psychedelic Uncle Tom" act. >It does buttress my theory that it was showmanship and image that >pulled in the biggest portion of the ticket and record buyers and >that folks like (mcdee) and me, who are more musically oriented >and who could appreciate the stunning level of chops were a minority. >He had to know it, and it had to hurt. I agree, and there is definite evidence that he was aware of and deeply conflicted over it. There's a famous story of Jimi playing Fillmore East and, in the 8 o'clock show, doing all the most overt Jimi-shtick, with predictably crowd-pleasing results. Between shows, Jimi bounced into Bill Graham's office, happy about the way the audience had eaten his act up, and asked Bill how he liked it. Bill said something like, "Well, Jimi... I saw you lick your guitar... I saw you hump your guitar...I saw you put the guitar behind your head... I saw you do a backwards somersault with your guitar. But I never heard you *play* your guitar" Surrounded by sycophants as he surely was, Jimi may have never had anyone say that to his face. He wasn't happy with what he heard, but he apparently took it to heart, because before the second show he told Bill to be sure and check out the next set. And during that set, Jimi stood stock still and *played* -- played with brilliance and focus and passion and not one bit of pandering. And the audience went twice as nuts as at the early show. He came to the wings at the end of the set, looked Bill straight in the eye and said "There! You happy now?" Bill said yes, very. And then Jimi went out to play the encore, and crammed all the humping-licking-backwards-somersault shtick into a few minutes. So *there*! Jimi himself indicated that he was sick of the image not long before he died, in a Rolling Stone article titled "I Don't Want To Be a Clown Anymore."
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #89 of 154: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sun 18 Nov 07 17:00
permalink #89 of 154: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sun 18 Nov 07 17:00
Great Bill Graham story, Gary. For me, the music penned by Jimi himself, the lyrics and the accompanying mood he evoked, indicate that the "psychedelic trappings" were largely sincere, though certainly embellished by the flourishes in his act and the manner he was packaged. I also think that "Black Gold" provides ample evidence that Jimi was more than ready by 1970 to not be forever caught in a trap of this psychedelic image. I think both of these developmentsgoing to London and looking towards jazz after he hit it bigare a compliment to Jimi's drive to constantly push his limits as a musician.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #90 of 154: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sun 18 Nov 07 17:31
permalink #90 of 154: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sun 18 Nov 07 17:31
<scribbled>
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #91 of 154: Gary Lambert (almanac) Sun 18 Nov 07 17:32
permalink #91 of 154: Gary Lambert (almanac) Sun 18 Nov 07 17:32
I think Jimi was very sincere in that desire to grow artistically -- and also, it seems, very insecure about his ability to pull it off. That Rolling Stone article I cited mentions some of those insecurities: "For example, he'd been wanting for some time to jam with jazz and 'new music' avant-gardists, but worried that such musicians didn't take him seriously enough to ever consider playing with him. 'Tell me, honestly,' he asked a friend, 'what do those guys think of me? Do they think I'm jiving?'" from "Jimi Hendrix: I Don't Want To Be a Clown Any More" RS46 11/15/69 <http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/bandofgypsies/articles/story/7513456/jimi_ hendrix_i_dont_want_to_be_a_clown_any_more> Tellingly, the backstage encounter with Bill Graham that I mentioned above happened *after* that Rolling Stone article was published (specifically, according to Bill's posthumously published autobiography, the second night of the famous Band of Gypsies New Year's stand of 1969-70). So while Jimmy was conscious of wanting to leave the jive behind, something -- maybe those insecurities -- caused him to resort to the shtick (even though he proved emphatically to Bill Graham and himself that he didn't need it).
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #92 of 154: Gary Lambert (almanac) Sun 18 Nov 07 17:32
permalink #92 of 154: Gary Lambert (almanac) Sun 18 Nov 07 17:32
Scott slipped in.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #93 of 154: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Mon 19 Nov 07 04:44
permalink #93 of 154: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Mon 19 Nov 07 04:44
I think it's worth tempering what <rik> and I have been saying. I do think a lot of casual fans loved all the showboat stuff, but that's not to say that they didn't also appreciate the fact that the guy could really play the guitar. And sing. I've always thought Hendrix was a very compelling singer, and that his singing was an important part of his appeal. Anyone agree or disagree?
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #94 of 154: Darrell Jonsson (jonsson) Mon 19 Nov 07 10:12
permalink #94 of 154: Darrell Jonsson (jonsson) Mon 19 Nov 07 10:12
It was a good year or 2 from the time I heard Hendrix to the time I saw him in the Woodstock movie. Having no idea of his stage act or what he even looked like, the first time I heard some of his songs on the radio I thought they were downright beautiful from the start... songs like 'Wind Cries Mary', and 'Waterfall' and "3rd Stone from the Sun", other tracks didn't didn't do as much for me, and still don't. Most of his LPs in retrospect have brilliant moments, but I find myself hitting the fast forward on many of them. An exception is that 'Band of Gypsies' set, and the more futuristic tracks on Electric Ladyland. He was a genius, I'm a Hendrix fan and all that...I don't want to dis him, but I don't find his work consistent. Later I saw Henrix with Cox on Bass, and Mitch Mitchell on drums, he had abandoned much of the antics by then, it was an incredible show.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #95 of 154: Darrell Jonsson (jonsson) Mon 19 Nov 07 10:15
permalink #95 of 154: Darrell Jonsson (jonsson) Mon 19 Nov 07 10:15
<scribbled by jonsson Mon 19 Nov 07 10:17>
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #96 of 154: Darrell Jonsson (jonsson) Mon 19 Nov 07 10:16
permalink #96 of 154: Darrell Jonsson (jonsson) Mon 19 Nov 07 10:16
One thing I've always wondered about, does anybody know how much Hendrix was influenced by free-jazz. Particularly Coltrane and Ayler?
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #97 of 154: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 19 Nov 07 10:18
permalink #97 of 154: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 19 Nov 07 10:18
1. Innovative guitar playing that cuts to the core 2. Colorful, evocative lyrics and singing delivery 3. (a distant third) the showmanship. This is coming from a non-musician, but has always been the way Jimi appealed to me since I was about 13 or 14. BTW,I do appreciate the musical perspective you and Rik bring to this discussion. Also, Steve, after thinking about your earlier question, I would most like to see good quality video recordings from late 1967 or 1968 where Jimi was appreciating his new success, but not yet jaded by the straight-jacketing of his managers to never vary the act. This would not include the ill-conceived Monkees tour. Is there a run of Hendrix shows, or specific tour that, in your opinion, was especially rivetting during that time?
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #98 of 154: Steve Bjerklie (stevebj) Mon 19 Nov 07 12:23
permalink #98 of 154: Steve Bjerklie (stevebj) Mon 19 Nov 07 12:23
Also, have any members of the Monkees ever talked on the record about that bizarre tour?
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #99 of 154: Gary Lambert (almanac) Mon 19 Nov 07 13:40
permalink #99 of 154: Gary Lambert (almanac) Mon 19 Nov 07 13:40
Yes, I've seen accounts of the Monkees' reactions to Jimi's less-than- stellar experiences on that tour. They were big fans, and dismayed that it didn't work out better.
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Steven Roby, "Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hendrix"
permalink #100 of 154: Steven Roby (jimijames) Mon 19 Nov 07 19:59
permalink #100 of 154: Steven Roby (jimijames) Mon 19 Nov 07 19:59
>>When you did the event at Bananas at Large, you showed some great footage of the Royal Albert Hall concert and riot... I suspect that Jimi felt that he had to up the ante for shock value. True... if you noticed I let that clip play to the end, and you can see Jimi shaking his in disbelief. He up'd the ante because the cameras were on, and was probably told to. The month before Jimi was banned by the BBC for letting the Lulu show go into overtime - first time that ever happened! Right in the middle of "Hey Joe" he told the audience he was tiered of this rubbish, and dedicated a song to the Cream. So when it was time to play the hits again for crowd reaction... Jimi returned to the states a few weeks later, and eventually did stop playing that rubbish. The Experience broke up three months later, and Jimi started jamming with Larry Young, John McLauglin, Buddy Miles, Jim McCarty, and The Last Poets. This short-lived period in 1969 was highly creative. You can a small taste on the out of print LP "Nine to the Universe." >>have any members of the Monkees ever talked on the record about that bizarre tour? Mickey Dolenz of The Monkees explains how The Jimi Hendrix Experience rapidly went from hippie headliner to opening for. It just so happened that we were due to begin our summer tour in a couple of weeks, and we still needed another opening act. When I got back to L.A. I mentioned Hendrix and his impressive theatrics to [our producers]. The Monkees was very theatrical in my eyes and so was the Jimi Hendrix Experience. It would make the perfect union. Jimi must have thought so too, because a few weeks later he agreed to be the opening act for our upcoming summer tour. Mike Nesmith: The Jimi Hendrix experience . . . were the apotheosis of sixties psychedelic ribbon shirts and tie-dye, they had pinwheels for eyes and their hair was out to here . . . I thought, Man, I gotta see this thing live. So that night, I stood in front of the stage and listened to Hendrix at sound check. And I thought, Well, this guy's from Mars; he's from some other planet, but whatever it is, thank heaven for this visitation. And I listened to him play the sound checks and the concert. I thought, This is some of the best music I've heard in my life.
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