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Mark Dery - I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts
permalink #126 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Thu 17 May 12 18:50
permalink #126 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Thu 17 May 12 18:50
I love the smell of napalm in the morning. I *did* bring up Proust. Little did I know an unremarkable reference to a universally conceded hallmark of Proust's style would invite the alarmingly illiterate allegation that Proust was "crazy," a piece of breaking news that would come as something of a shock to the authors of the Proust bios I've read. Mike Godwin, a nation turns its lonely eyes on you.
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permalink #127 of 259: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Thu 17 May 12 18:56
permalink #127 of 259: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Thu 17 May 12 18:56
(Whoa, lots of slippage) <108> (fom) Felicity, what a wonderful sentence: <The Hemingway/Strunk&White approach has dumbed writing down and has <popularized habits that lead to poor comprehensibility by people for <whom English is not the primary language, and to poor translatability. We do seem to have forgotten how to think, or at least want it in simple doses. Style arguments aside -- e.e. cummings, sherwood anderson, allen ginsberg are also not easy reads -- I did have to go to the dictionary to look up 'chthonic' and 'epater', and hope never to use them both in the same sentence again:) Mark reads like bebop jazz in a philosophy of lit class on speed -- fascinating rhythm, but I can only do it in small doses. His book is 10 years of essays all at once, which is a lot to take in. But he makes me think, and that's what I want from a good book. He also makes me uncomfortable. I thoroughly enjoy his torching various zanies and subcultures "Tea Party know-nothings, head-in-the-sand birthers, and Bible-thumping flatheads..." and then he almost tags me completely with something like "white bread, no-logo clothinged liberal" or something close to that. Mark you left out 'closet preppy'. So he catches me in the mirror too, and I need that.
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permalink #128 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Thu 17 May 12 19:04
permalink #128 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Thu 17 May 12 19:04
Ted: Thank you for this intellectually generous response, and for your lightly worn wisdom, more generally. When you get to the book's closing essay, "Cortex Envy," at once a cultural critique of I.Q. tests, a social history of its coziness with eugenics, and a painfully revealing meditation on my relationship with the test when I was a child, you'll see, I hope, that I turn the pitiless eye of critique on myself, too---and more scarifyingly, I'd argue, than I do anywhere else.
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permalink #129 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Thu 17 May 12 19:19
permalink #129 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Thu 17 May 12 19:19
Typo:a social history of *THEIR* coziness with eugenics...
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permalink #130 of 259: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Thu 17 May 12 19:22
permalink #130 of 259: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Thu 17 May 12 19:22
I did, I do, and I appreciated the honesty. BTW your book became birthday presents for two people I know are going to thoroughly enjoy it. I'm going to have to send them the link to this conversation as well, as a postscript, and hopefully not a post mortem :)
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permalink #131 of 259: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 17 May 12 20:30
permalink #131 of 259: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 17 May 12 20:30
We're steering into the weeds a bit, let's get back to our discussion of your collection of "drive-by" essays, Mark. The piece I found most interesting was "When Animals Attack," and I wondered how you found your way to that subject? The essay itself is a revelation. We've been wrangling about this or that culture - the grizzlies would eat hip-hop culture for breakfast with nary a burp, I imagine.
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permalink #132 of 259: (fom) Thu 17 May 12 20:42
permalink #132 of 259: (fom) Thu 17 May 12 20:42
>We're steering into the weeds a bit, let's get back to our discussion of your collection of "drive-by" essays, Mark. (Did you notice the last 3 or 4 posts? They're about the book.)
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permalink #133 of 259: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Fri 18 May 12 02:13
permalink #133 of 259: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Fri 18 May 12 02:13
Speaking as a Proust fan, I can say with some certainty that Proust's long sentences are never riffs -- whether in French or in any of the English translations, Proust's sentences are thoughtful, nuanced, subtle, and precisely crafted. Proust's prose holds up because it is, in some large sense, not dependent on cultural or topical allusion -- a passage sent in 1870 could just as easily be set in 1770, for all it matters to the narrator or to the reader. (There is, of course, the occasional topical reference in Proust, but the narrative of In Search of Lost Time never depends on these.) With regard to Frankfurt ON BULLSHIT, I think the reader sees a similar degree of independence from mere topicality, although the author does present BULLSHIT as an acutely current issue substantively. Stylistically, one sees in Frankfurt the kind of clarity, economy, and precision I find myself wishing that all cultural critics would employ.
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permalink #134 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 07:15
permalink #134 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 07:15
Re: #133 (mnemonic): I'm not sure I understand the distinction between "riffing" and writing, but I gather it's something like Capote's distinction, in his feline swipe at Kerouac, between typing and writing. More charitably, riffing (as its name suggests) might consist of jazzy improvisation on a theme, with all the false starts and dead ends that implies. Riffing embraces an aesthetic of orality (in the Walter J. Ong-ian sense); it strives to capture, on the page, the syncopated beat of spoken word. It champions the Beat ideal of orality ("composed on the tongue"---Ginsberg) and spontaneity ("first word, best word"---Kerouac). Thus, Lester Bangs, William Burroughs, Hunter S. Thompson, and the Beats would, presumably, be riffers; Luc Sante, Christopher Hitchens, J.G. Ballard, Edmund Wilson, George Orwell, Graham Greene, Joan Didion, and Susan Sontag, presumably, are not. (Sorry, I had to iron out the wrinkles of that idea, in my mind, before getting to the heart of your question.) We're talking about riffing, I assume, because I said I was riffing on the starchy syntax of the 18th-century gentleman---to comic effect, I'd hoped. In retrospect, I probably used the term too loosely, since what I was doing was alluding, not riffing, which to my mind implies theme-and-variations extrapolations of a theme or image, or forensic attempts to tilt with an idea from every angle. Proust is decidedly *not* a riffer. As Edmund White's marvelous little biography of him makes clear, Proust was a lapidary stylist---for once, an entirely accurate use of that done-to-death adjective. I heartily agree that Proust was a fastidious craftsman, always in search of le mot juste. My point was simply that his sentences are *LONG*--- exquisitely wrought, perfectly parsed, breathtaking in their apparently effortless mastery of complex syntax, but *LONG*. And *LONG* sentences are frowned upon by modernist style, starting with Strunk, and positively reviled in our day, at least in journalism and popular nonfiction. Web "usability" experts and corporate motivational gurus and branding experts admonish us to write in brief, easily gulped blips. The cultural critic in me was simply saying that politics sometimes masquerades as aesthetics. In fact, much cultural criticism is founded on the assumption that Everything is Political, in some sense. (We're talking *cultural* politics, here, as opposed to inside-the-beltway politics in the popular sense.) Happily granting your point that clarity, concision, and precision are essential to good writing, I'm arguing that writing can be all of those things *without kneeling to the aesthetic diktats handed down from Machine-Age modernism and now enshrined in every style guide for undergrads*: received truths of contemporary style such as Shorter is Better (in words as well as sentences) and plain speech is preferable to the sesquipedalian. This obsession with "demotic" language---confining oneself to the vocabulary of Joe the Plumber, and never daring to send one's reader to the dictionary---is very much historically located and culturally bounded, a symptom of the cherished American belief that we're all middle-class in some ineffable spiritual sense unrelated to income; equality means everyone in Lake Woebegone is above average. (This, by the way, is precisely why an unrepentant elitist like Buckley uses jawbreakingly polysyllabic words without apology: because he's addressing the elite, and feels no compunction to pretend otherwise. Most Americans, by contrast, would rather go to the guillotine than be tarred with the brush of elitism, and thus police their speech and writing accordingly.) Likewise, Strunk's obsession---and Hemingway's---with paring writing down to its bare-bones, Platonic essence is at least partly a product of its age, the age of streamlining in industrial design and Fordism and Taylorism in the workplace and top-down managerial theory in the executive suite. As well, it has to do with Anglo-American notions of terse, tough-talkin', g-droppin', skip-the-bullshit "masculine" speech and prose, culturally valued (academics would use the specialized "valorized," which would mark them as mealy mouthed, evasive, less than truthful, and foppish/effeminate to boot) as closer to the Truth than the refined, "epicene" speech of the upper-class and/or well-educated man. (Hence American presidents' affectation of a g-droppin', common-man style of speech as a way of telegraphing not only their common-man credentials but also their "masculine" plain speech, shorthand for "I'm telling you the truth, no matter how tough.") Hofstadter has some thoughts, in _Anti-Intellectualism in America_, on the gender and class politics of our deep-dyed suspicion of Big Words and Highbrow Allusions and Complex Sentences. As it happens, Proust argues my point: his sheer length of his sentences would give Strunk a myocardial infarction, yet he is, as you point out, a model of clarity and precision. Incidentally, Queer Theory advocates have some thoughts on what is increasingly called "lavender linguistics"---what makes gay speech and even writing gay. Some would argue that Proust's style is a queer style, in part, and that the repression of certain stylistic/aesthetic attributes in Anglo-American style is, again, about American notions of what constitutes "manly" speech and writing, which is to say sturdy, wholesome prose. My argument, at its heart, is a plea for the rigorous interrogation of unconsidered notions such as "clarity, economy, and precision," which I believe are less value-neutral, and more culturally and historically embedded, than you suggest.
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Mark Dery - I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts
permalink #135 of 259: Mark De (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 08:07
permalink #135 of 259: Mark De (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 08:07
<scribbled by mark-dery>
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permalink #136 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 08:08
permalink #136 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 08:08
((Let me say, again, how much I regret the WELL's lack of an EDIT POST button. For instance, that should've been "*the* sheer length of his sentences..." I'm composing on the fly, here, rather than offline, and I find the bathysphere window-sized textbox eye-crossingly user-unfriendly. Maybe that's just me?))
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permalink #137 of 259: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Fri 18 May 12 08:12
permalink #137 of 259: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Fri 18 May 12 08:12
This is the improvisors room. Composers are down the hall.
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permalink #138 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 08:13
permalink #138 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 08:13
Heh.
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permalink #139 of 259: david gault (dgault) Fri 18 May 12 08:43
permalink #139 of 259: david gault (dgault) Fri 18 May 12 08:43
It is an unfriendly interface, and there are workarounds, but it takes more than 2 weeks to get comfortable with them. This is all interesting stuff, thanks for bringing it up. I have lots of small comments, like maybe Joe the Plumber isn't the best example for the kind of language I think you're calling plain language. My imperfect memory of Joe is that his ramblings would send a curious listener to the dictionary for words that didn't exist. Which is typical speech, even common speech, and it communicates confusion. I think that's the direction of speech and language in the immediate future. Spreading confusion is job one for public speakers. I think clear thinking and writing are elite skills. It's quick and easy and correct within an order of magnitude to say that 1% of the domestic population have those skills. It's not an exact match with the top 1% in income, but there is a lot of crossover.
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permalink #140 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 09:31
permalink #140 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 09:31
>>#131 of 136: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 17 May 2012 (08:30 PM) We're steering into the weeds a bit, let's get back to our discussion of your collection of "drive-by" essays, Mark. The piece I found most interesting was "When Animals Attack," and I wondered how you found your way to that subject? The essay itself is a revelation. We've been wrangling about this or that culture - the grizzlies would eat hip-hop culture for breakfast with nary a burp, I imagine.<< A brain-tickler, Jon; thanks for that. "When Animals Attack" had many midwives. It was nominally a review of Gordon Grice's latest book, _Deadly Kingdom_, although I used the assignment as an opportunity for Applied Ballardianism. One thing I learned from Ballard's book reviews (many of which are collected in his _User's Guide to the Millennium_) is that a book review need only passingly be about the book at hand; using that book as a springboard into the Intellectual Beyond, or as a prism for refracting the reviewer's obsessions, is infinitely more interesting than the thumbs-up, thumbs-down school of "service-oriented" book reviewing. I'm a devout fan of Grice's work, which I discovered when I stumbled on his _Red Hourglass: Lives of the Predators_, a sui generis book that virtually created its own genre: Gothic Naturalism. (I reviewed it on Amazon, where I called Grice "a Jean-Henri Fabre for literati who drive pickups with rifle racks.") Thus, I knew I wanted to get to grips with Grice's book. At the same time, I wanted to use it as a jumping-off point for some thoughts on one of the current vogues in critical-theory circles, what's known as The Posthuman Turn. When I wrote the chapter in _Escape Velocity_ (1996) called "The Perils of Posthumanism," posthumanism meant: Hans Moravec's visions of downloading our minds into machines, transhumanism (a New Age techno-libertarian gloss on the human potential movement), and cyberpunk dreams of engineering Darwinian evolution along more cyborgian lines. These days, "posthuman" means post-anthropocentric; it's informed by the academic discourse known as Animal Studies (which the waggish critical theorist Dominic Pettman likes to say has jumped the shark) and by cognitive ethology---research into animal behavior and cognition that is eroding the longstanding claim that humans are unique among, and by extension superior to, other animals. And the last piece of the puzzle was Werner Herzog's exercise in gothic naturalism, "Grizzly Man," which I read as a parable about Wild Nature as Utterly Other, inscrutable to man the signifying monkey who insists on seeing nature as culture, which is to say: as his own reflection. I'm fascinated by the interlocked philosophical notions of the posthuman, the nonhuman, and the inhuman. I'm especially taken with "poetic postmodernism" (my term, coined right here) that attempts a kind of "theoretical fiction" (Steven Shaviro) in which nonhuman phenomena are theorized as lifeforms, i.e., regarded As If (the science-fictional, alternate-world leap of faith) they were creatures. Manuel DeLanda, following Deleuze's lead, points the way in _War in the Age of Intelligent Machines_, where he uses chaos science and complexity theory to reimagine natural phenomena as self-assembling machines (punning on Linnaean taxonomy, he locates them within the "machinic phylum"). Examples include tornados as turbines, fast-moving rivers as primitive computers (because they sort stones according to size, "filing" them in respective sections of the riverbed). Going further, Delanda imagines various geologic phenomena as "creatures of the lithisphere" with specific "behaviors." Likewise, fire ecologists talk about fire "behaviors," and firefighters talk about the infernal (forgive pun!) intelligence of forest fighters, which in their anecdotal experience seem to anticipate strategies to foil them, routing around firefighters and, lethally, executing pincer movements familiar from military strategy. Of course, all of this invites the charge, ironically, of anthropomorphizing---Ruskin's "pathetic fallacy" come back to bite the posthumanist. And it will sound, to the tough-minded positivists in the crowd, like an object lesson in the lunacy of taking metaphor literally. All that said, I find these ideas fascinating, and hope to elaborate on them in some future essay that picks up where "When Animals Attack" leaves off.
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Mark Dery - I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts
permalink #141 of 259: Mark De (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 09:55
permalink #141 of 259: Mark De (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 09:55
<scribbled by mark-dery>
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permalink #142 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 09:59
permalink #142 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 09:59
>>#139 of 140: david gault (dgault) Fri 18 May 2012 (08:43 AM) >>typical speech, even common speech...communicates confusion. I think that's the direction of speech and language in the immediate future. Spreading confusion is job one for public speakers. I think clear thinking and writing are elite skills. It's quick and easy and correct within an order of magnitude to say that 1% of the domestic population have those skills. It's not an exact match with the top 1% in income, but there is a lot of crossover.<< Well, it was always ever thus, I suspect. It's sobering to realize that---I'm quoting from glitchy memory, so please set me straight if I'm wrong---that only 25% of Americans have college educations, and that's an all-time *high*. Illiteracy is lower than ever, in the U.S. (unless I'm mistaken, but that's a stat I've heard bruited about). We're up to our eyebrows in unemployed semiotics majors from Brown, which is why NYC is awash in Chautauqua-style lecture series and pop-up classes taught by overeducated, underemployed college grads. From the Saul-Steinberg-cartoon vantage point of New York, at least, America looks Bizarro-World paradoxical, and the gap you note takes the measure of that educational divide. The social reality no politician dares question, for fear of being pilloried as an elitist, is the possibility that some of the evils bedeviling our fair republic are the result of a Cognitive Gap---i.e., the critical-thinking skills and respect for verifiable, empirical truth supposedly inculcated by a liberal-arts education, one hand, and the flat-earth fundies and wetbrained conspiracy theorists (of the Tea Party right and anti-vaccine left and 2012-rapture New Age fringe). Economic inequity---the income gap, by any other name---is inarguably corrosive to American notions of fair play, the level playing field, one-man-one-vote, and all that---but Jefferson's dream of a democracy founded on an informed and reasoning electorate is imperiled, too, by the widening chasm between Enlightenment and Old-Testament values; between those who rally 'round the banner of skeptical inquiry, the scientific method, and secular humanism and those who devoutly believe they have God on their side, that blind faith is a virtue, that the Devil was Darwin's ghostwriter and global warming is a tree-hugger's fabrication and Reaganomics is sanctioned by scripture. Education, it turns out, is an effective disinfectant.
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permalink #143 of 259: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 18 May 12 10:52
permalink #143 of 259: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 18 May 12 10:52
That last post reminded me of a point in a talk I attended earlier this week by academic/activist Robert Jensen (http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/index.html), who mentioned studies showing that believers, confronted with facts opposing their beliefs, tend to become even more entrenched, not less so. However, he suggested, you can change someone's head with a good story, as opposed to straight facts.
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permalink #144 of 259: (fom) Fri 18 May 12 10:55
permalink #144 of 259: (fom) Fri 18 May 12 10:55
(It's a shame that inkwell guests have to use the web interface with that tiny text box. Or is a choice offered? I'm addressing that question to the hosts here.)
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permalink #145 of 259: Ed Ward (captward) Fri 18 May 12 11:00
permalink #145 of 259: Ed Ward (captward) Fri 18 May 12 11:00
(I suspect they use a web interface because it's easier. I don't have any problem editing my posts before I post them, or, in an emergency, copying the post, scribbling the old one, and editing it again in the box. I don't understand what Mark's problem is, unless it's pulling the trigger before he's reread the post to make sure it says what he wants it to.)
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Mark Dery - I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts
permalink #146 of 259: (fom) Fri 18 May 12 11:12
permalink #146 of 259: (fom) Fri 18 May 12 11:12
>they use a web interface because it's easier Easier for some, much more difficult for others.
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permalink #147 of 259: Ed Ward (captward) Fri 18 May 12 11:23
permalink #147 of 259: Ed Ward (captward) Fri 18 May 12 11:23
This isn't the place for this discussion.
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permalink #148 of 259: Peter Meuleners (pjm) Fri 18 May 12 11:26
permalink #148 of 259: Peter Meuleners (pjm) Fri 18 May 12 11:26
You can change the size of the text box. Settings | Options | Topic and Response Options | Post box size Set the box where you compose responses to a height of x lines.
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permalink #149 of 259: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Fri 18 May 12 11:27
permalink #149 of 259: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Fri 18 May 12 11:27
It's also draggable, at least in Firefox.
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Mark Dery - I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts
permalink #150 of 259: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Fri 18 May 12 11:28
permalink #150 of 259: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Fri 18 May 12 11:28
But Ed is right.
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