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permalink #151 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 11:41
permalink #151 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 11:41
Thanks, all, for the geek-squadding. I'll practice my barrel rolls. By the very end of Week 2, I'll just be getting the hang of this thing.
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permalink #152 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 11:53
permalink #152 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 11:53
>>#143 of 151: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 18 May 2012 (10:52 AM) >>studies showing that believers, confronted with facts opposing their beliefs, tend to become even more entrenched, not less so. Of course, Enlightened Beings like ourselves, ruled by the better angels of our reason, are immune to such passions. <g> The science pages keep telling us we're prisoners of our evolutionary psychology, which supposedly makes us constitutionally disinclined to change our minds, once they're made up. Or something like that. >>However, he suggested, you can change someone's head with a good story, as opposed to straight facts. That would explain Gladwell's fondness for bite-sized anecdotes that concentrate the MBA mind. One of BAD THOUGHTS' essays, about self-help lit, considers the overlap between the Bible tract and motivational-psychology books for salesmen. The Judaeo-Christian fondness for the instructive parable and inspirational homily dies hard.
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permalink #153 of 259: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Fri 18 May 12 12:04
permalink #153 of 259: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Fri 18 May 12 12:04
Mark, try using 'Spellcheck" before you post...it allows a bigger field than the tiny text box and is easier to read.
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permalink #154 of 259: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Fri 18 May 12 12:51
permalink #154 of 259: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Fri 18 May 12 12:51
Mark writes: 'I'm not sure I understand the distinction between "riffing" and writing, but I gather it's something like Capote's distinction, in his feline swipe at Kerouac, between typing and writing.' No, I wouldn't embrace Capote's talk-show comment as underscoring a distinction of substantive importance. Kerouac certainly does count as "jazz" in a way that Capote never does, but jazz, of course, takes discipline too, and it takes no less discipline than Capote (at his best) deployed. With regard to ON BULLSHIT, my sense is that a very great proportion of current and past writing regarding culture qualifies as "bullshit" in the Frankfurtian sense -- I think this has been true for more or less the entire history of what we now think of as "cyberculture" and the commentary about it. Frankfurt's major point with regard to bullshit is that its purpose is not to convey truth or falsehood, but to impress. Its sheer orthoganality to truth or falsehood makes bullshit, in Frankfurt's phrase, "a greater enemy of the truth than lies are." In this respect, I think Frankfurt qualifies as a culture critic, even if that is not necessarily his primary mission. I'm sure you've come across in your reading, Mark, many instances in which writers who cast themselves as critics write mainly to seem impressive (e.g., with the scope of the cultural referents) without much care as to truth or falsehood or creating any lasting social value. For me, the measure of such critics is whether I find myself with more cultural insight after reading them than I had before. Frankfurt's essay ON BULLSHIT passes this essential test, in my view.
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permalink #155 of 259: E (wickett) Fri 18 May 12 17:27
permalink #155 of 259: E (wickett) Fri 18 May 12 17:27
<scribbled by wickett Fri 18 May 12 17:37>
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permalink #156 of 259: . (wickett) Fri 18 May 12 17:37
permalink #156 of 259: . (wickett) Fri 18 May 12 17:37
I will put _On Bullshit_ on my reading list. I had difficulty with many essays in your book, Mark, as pop culture is largely alien to me. However, I was amused, but not enlightened, by your essay on Santa Claus and less amused by the essay on the Capuchin crypt. I could not discern a point. The crypt is startling, indeed, and potentially as spiritually useful as a sand mandala and the painstaking labor and artistic skill put into it before all its grains are brushed to the four winds. Gothic or grotesque? Neither. Your essay made clear the mindset you brought into the church and the mindset with which you left. To my mind, an effective cultural critic drills the depths and expands the minds of at least some of the audience, who then quest further on their own. Death is a tempting topic for reflection, but you, alas, evaded that opportunity and did not give any indication that your own mind was enlarged by the experience. Was it?
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permalink #157 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 18:33
permalink #157 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 18:33
Wickett: Pop culture is "largely alien" to you? How extraordinary. You sound positively anchoritic. If it isn't presumptuous of me, how did you come to lead such a cloistered life? In any event, I'm not surprised you had difficulty with my book if pop culture is Martian anthropology to you, since my brand of brow-furrowing deals largely (though not entirely, as the essays on the Crypt of the Capuchins and La Specola make clear) with pop culture. A pity you weren't enlightened, but we can't all be. Here's to the laugh lines. (Were you one of the Inkwell members who received a free copy of the book from my publisher, in order to prime the pump of discussion? If so, perhaps you'll re-gift it to some deserving friend. Or, better yet, enemy.) Regarding the specific essay you mention, you seem to want me to defend myself against a farrago of charges, among them your contention that my little prose poem had no point; that my "mindset" ought to have been altered by my visit to the Crypt, and since it wasn't---at least, by your lights---I clearly missed an opportunity for enlightenment, thereby cheating my readers of one as well; that I should have had a Hamlet Moment, contemplating my mortality, the Meaning of Life, et. al. Alas, as you might say, the prosecutorial style brings out the Imp of the Perverse in me; I make it a point never to justify my work, especially when the line of questioning feels more inquisitional than inquisitive. I suppose what I'm saying is: you seem to have answered your questions.
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permalink #158 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 19:02
permalink #158 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Fri 18 May 12 19:02
Mike: Pardon my Captain Earnest, but I feel the need for an encounter-group moment. In deference to your obvious intelligence, and the apparent sincerity of your question, I took an hour or so out of my lunatic schedule to watch several video interviews with Frankfurt, and to read thoughtful reviews of, and excerpts from, his book in _The Guardian_ and _Philosophy Now_, among others. I did this in order to be able to serve up something other than steaming bullshit in response to your question. But---and this may be wall-eyed paranoia, occasioned by the number of you-lookin'-at-me? Travis Bickles who've come crashing through the skylight of our little book club, without warning---I can't quite banish the suspicion that you're implying *my work* is the merest bullshit. In all immodesty, I'd much rather discuss my work than Frankfurter's. I'll take a whack at the book, with the big, fat caveat that I haven't read it, and thus may go tap-dancing right into a minefield of bullshit, but I'd like to know, before I spend the time and tendons on a careful reply, if you've read any of my work, and if so, is the imputation here that it is bullshit? It's hard not to hear your blithe observation that a "very great proportion of current and past writing regarding culture qualifies as 'bullshit'" as a shot across my bow. Is it? You add, "I think this has been true for more or less the entire history of what we now think of as 'cyberculture' and the commentary about it." Since I *wrote a book about cyberculture*, very much informed by cultural studies, I can only assume this is a flaming brick heaved in the general direction of my book, and my work more generally. If you're asking your questions in a spirit of intellectual curiosity mingled with skeptical inquiry, I'm happy to take up my pen. But as with Wickett, I'm not going to waste any ink "defending" cultural criticism in general or my work in specific from charges leveled by someone who's convinced it's nothing more than gilded bullshit, any more than you'd waste your breath justifying the law, and lawyers, in the eyes of some unlettered yahoo who thinks the world would be a better place if we hung all the lawyers.
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permalink #159 of 259: Bryan Higgins (bryan) Fri 18 May 12 19:39
permalink #159 of 259: Bryan Higgins (bryan) Fri 18 May 12 19:39
Rather thin-skinned, aren't you?
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permalink #160 of 259: . (wickett) Fri 18 May 12 19:48
permalink #160 of 259: . (wickett) Fri 18 May 12 19:48
Assumptions, assumptions. I plan to use your book for critical thinking exercises with my students.
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permalink #161 of 259: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Fri 18 May 12 20:24
permalink #161 of 259: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Fri 18 May 12 20:24
Mark, I think your questioning of me is entirely reasonable, so I'm going to try to respond thoughtfully in a way that enables you more clearly to express your own thinking, while sidestepping, if I can, anything that positions me as an opponent to you. First, yes, of course, I've read some of your work, including FLAME WARS, which I owned for many years before I donated it, along with much of my library, to other, more capable owners. I'm reading this topic because it interests me to see what you have to say these days, because I've been familiar with your work for a long time now. With regard to ON BULLSHIT, I brought up Frankfurt's book because I believe it is a useful touchstone with regard to anyone's efforts at cultural criticism, including my own. As a moderately trained, generally mediocre student of philosophy, I have tried to develop the habit of subjecting both my own writing and that of others to a persistently critical, even adversarial perspective. In this regard, I blame my habits more on Plato than on law school -- although I'm no Platonist, I do believe that the dialogic, critical mode tests my thinking much more than finding people who agree with my thoughts about this or that. That's my method, such as it is. If you take me to be intellectually curious, I think you've understood me correctly -- what I want to hear you tell me is why I might want to read your latest book. You and I both have many friends and colleagues who publish a lot -- we each have to make choices about where next to allocate our reading and thinking time. I don't need a sales pitch, and I wouldn't demean either of us by asking for one -- and I don't expect you rely on sales, as such, any more than I ever have -- but I do appreciate apologias (I think you know the sense in which I use that word). If I position myself as an opponent to you (which, really, I'm not), then I think it's easy to dismiss me, maybe along the same lines in which you dismissed <wickett>, as a mere critic, unwilling to play, undeserving of your energies. So I don't want to do that. I think what I most want is to hear what you believe you're up to, both generally and with regard to your latest book. And, if you can, I'd like to hear you explicate the social value of your project. I hope you appreciate that I'm taking pains here not to be oppositional or reductive, but instead to give you opportunities to engage with us here to say more about what you're working on, and about its strategic and/or social relevance.
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permalink #162 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sat 19 May 12 10:12
permalink #162 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sat 19 May 12 10:12
Forthright and to the point, Mike. I appreciate your laying your cards on the table. I'll respond at thoughtful length later today, early in the evening.
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permalink #163 of 259: david gault (dgault) Sat 19 May 12 16:15
permalink #163 of 259: david gault (dgault) Sat 19 May 12 16:15
Sidenote: I skimmed the first 5 pages of On Bullshit and I wish I hadn't. It affected me in a bad way. Started trying to tell the truth instead of trying to impress, with negative consequences. Started worrying about bullshitting others, and getting offended by others bullshitting me. And I've heard a lot of bullshit this week in my offline life, face to face with total pros. I'm recovered now, and grateful that for just a day or two the veil slipped.
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permalink #164 of 259: Rob Myers (robmyers) Sun 20 May 12 06:17
permalink #164 of 259: Rob Myers (robmyers) Sun 20 May 12 06:17
The post/non/inhuman is coalescing into "Object Oriented Philosophy" and "Speculative Realism", one-man schools of blog-friendly petty academic rivalries based on a Marie Antoinettish worldview that don't realise or care that it's paving the way for post-peak-oil feudalism. I'd be very interested to read what you write about the nonhuman turn...
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permalink #165 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 06:54
permalink #165 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 06:54
#164 (robmyers): Can you provide specific examples of object-oriented ontology's/speculative realism's "Marie Antoinettish worldview"? I'm not questioning the legitimacy of your critique, just asking for further and better particulars that bear it out. Obviously, the notion of a critique of anthropocentricity that takes that critique to the reductio ad absurdum limit by arguing against the privileging of the human over *any* other entity seems lunatic on its face, but to those of us who have a soft spot for the lunatic, and who view this sort of thing---very possibly at our political peril---as deadpan Surrealism (philosophy not with a hammer, but with a lobster telephone), it has a certain zany appeal, if only on the level of zaniness. For instance, I've come across overheated speculations about "the secret lives of objects," which, taken as *poetic* theory, appeal to the Joseph Cornell fan in me. But I take your point about the social and political cost of these academic fever dreams, especially in an America where corporations have attained a kind of personhood, in the eyes of the law. Anyway, fascinating comment; thanks for beckoning us down that fruitful path.
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permalink #166 of 259: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 20 May 12 07:52
permalink #166 of 259: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 20 May 12 07:52
Assertions about phenomenology remind us how constrained we are in our perception and interpretation of experience, as we try to grasp the reality beyond our limitations. I'm always fascinated by those kinds of conversations, but I'm not sure I would call them fruitful. This is where the intuitive level of perception and interpretation probably deserves our trust; intellect is so much slower and error-prone.
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permalink #167 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 11:08
permalink #167 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 11:08
#166 (jonl): In my world, fascination is its own fruit. As for intuition versus intellect, must we choose? Smells like a false binary to me.
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permalink #168 of 259: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 20 May 12 12:11
permalink #168 of 259: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 20 May 12 12:11
It's not inherently either-or, but many choose one over the other.
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permalink #169 of 259: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sun 20 May 12 12:42
permalink #169 of 259: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sun 20 May 12 12:42
Then they're nuts.
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permalink #170 of 259: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 20 May 12 13:35
permalink #170 of 259: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 20 May 12 13:35
Well, maybe, depending on your perspective. I think it's common to embrace intellect over intuition, and for some vice versa. In the Gurdjieff work, they talk about imbalances of the intellectual, emotional, and instinctive centers, which is probably a more accurate way to see and articulate the problem. But we should get back to the project at hand, whether the must think bad thoughts, or not. As I read "The Prophet Margin" about Jack Chick and his "tracts" - fundamentalist memes embedded in comic book imagery - I wondered how those relate to the current spew of right-wing astroturf into the inboxes of middle-American Tea Party malcontents? I never believed Chick was getting traction, but I also never believed that the John Birch Society could have meaningful influence.
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permalink #171 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 13:51
permalink #171 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 13:51
(jonl) slipped in. Jon, I'm going to (mentally) bookmark your Chick question because, as promised yesterday, I owe (mnemonic) a *long* response to his jabs and feints about _On Bullshit_. Apologies for back-burnering yours.
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permalink #172 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 13:52
permalink #172 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 13:52
#161 of 167: Mike Godwin (mnemonic): Mike: I appreciate your candor and clarity and, most of all, your careful avoidance of threat-posturing, coup-counting, and tedious tendentiousness of the why-does-your-book-suck-and-blow? variety. Ill make every effort to respond in kind. If any of my seat-of-the-pants theorizing feels less like pointed argument and too much like a fixed bayonet, my apologies in advance. Im going to assume the best intentions on your part, and hope youll do likewise. Now, then: my thoughts---in no particular order---on *your* thoughts on cultural criticism (in general) and *On Bullshit* (in particular). In a pre-emptive strike (in my dreams...) against the inevitable charge that, by offering my free-associated responses to a book I havent read I am, in effect, shoveling bullshit, Ill note that Im responding to your critique of cultural criticism, in you cited the Frankfurt book as a corrective to what you perceive to be the weaknesses of cultural criticism. As noted in an earlier post, I *have* crammed for my exam by trudging through a few reviews of the book, as well as a brief excerpt from it, and have listened to an hours worth of interviews with the author, about his book. Thus, I can pretend to a Cliffs Notes acquaintance, at least, with _On Bullshit_, though hardly to its fine points. To my mind, this is hardly an Achilles Heel, since Im responding less to Frankfurts book than to your *representation* of it, and to your reading of cultural criticism *through* it (in the critical-theory sense of reading through, as in, say, Proust read through queer theory).
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permalink #173 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 13:53
permalink #173 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 13:53
(mnemonic): First thoughts: Respectfully, there seem to be some logical inconsistencies---internal contradictions?---in #161. You say you want me to tell you why [you] might want to read [my] latest book, especially in light of information overload and time famine. So many books, so little time, you seem to be saying; tell me why your book is worth my time. Then, perhaps realizing that asking an author to justify his demands on a readers time sounds importunate, you add that youre not asking for a sales pitch, which if you *were* asking for it would, as you concede, be somewhat demeaning. In fact, you *do* seem to be asking for a sales pitch, a request at odds with your later, worthier suggestion that I seize the opportunity to explicate the social value of your project...to say more about...its strategic and/or social relevance. Even the admittedly less Amway-friendly term apologia---well-familiar to me from grudge matches with god-botherers, in which this battle-scarred atheist played the part of devils advocate---connotes a sense of justification or defense, implying that my book requires one or the other or both, especially in light of data smog and time starvation but more immediately in light of your skepticism about cultural criticism per se. Im going to choose Door Number Two. Meaning: Im happy to join battle over the question of the social value or strategic relevance of cultural criticism. While Im not unaware that we live in a consumer culture, where as Marx predicted nearly every social exchange is reduced to the cash nexus and most social media are little more than an opportunity for product placement (hello, inkwell.vue 441: Mark Dery - I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts!) and burnishing Brand Me, I cant muster much more than yawning indifference to the prospect of selling anyone on my bright, shiny product. The thing speaks for itself. More to the point, it speaks *to* those who are drawn to the subjects it ponders---popular culture, the social effects and cultural politics of media old and new, fringe thought, subcultures subversive or just plain perverse, the gothic, the grotesque, the abject, the uncanny---but specifically to those who prefer a style of mind that is as idiosyncratic and edgy as the subjects it treats *and* a prose style that enacts that sensibility on a poetic level. Oh. My. God. As my 16-year-old would say. Ive just given you a sales pitch after all, havent I?
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permalink #174 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 18:15
permalink #174 of 259: M. Dery (mark-dery) Sun 20 May 12 18:15
(mnemonic): If I understand it correctly, your critique of cultural criticism, as expounded in #88 and #154 and refracted through the Frankfurt book, goes as follows: 1. Most cultural criticism is bullshit: A very great proportion of current and past writing regarding culture qualifies as bullshit in the Frankfurtian sense. Moreover, too many cultural critics write mainly to seem impressive (e.g., with the scope of the cultural referents) without much care as to truth or falsehood or creating any lasting social value. (This is essentially a somewhat more nuanced restatement of point #1.) 2. This is true in spades for cybercrit: I think this has been true for more or less the entire history of what we now think of as "cyberculture" and the commentary about it. 3. Frankfurt is an exemplar of bullshit-free cultural criticism. His book _On Bullshit_ is a useful bullshit meter, enabling us to separate critics---most notably, Frankfurt---who leave us more enlightened about the world around us than when we were when we got our tickets punched, as opposed to academo-babbling smoke-shovelers. (About which, more later, in a separate post.) Point #1: Irony of ironies, Im condemned to channel our mutual friend Rocket in pointing out---with all due respect---that your sweeping denunciation of cultural criticism invites the suspicion that youre not entirely familiar with the genre. Hell, man, do you even know who Cee-Lo is? But seriously: I suspect youve tasted just enough of the stuff to determine its spinach and to hell with it. Your choice of Plato (!) as a start point for cultural criticism---whose roots are more typically traced through the Birmingham school of cultural studies back to the founding fathers of critical theory (the Frankfurt Marxists)---would confirm that suspicion in academic eyes. At the very least, your historical narrative is idiosyncratic. Then, too, Foucault is typically understood as a poststructuralist theorist or, if you prefer, poststructuralist historian; calling him a cultural critic isnt exactly a country mile wide of the bulls-eye, but its not the first pigeonhole most theory-literate readers would choose. Benjamin, a card-carrying Frankfurt Marxist, was unquestionably a cultural critic. So, one out of three, which as I say invites the suspicion that you havent ventured very far into the briar patch of the very thing youre weed-whacking. Likewise, Im not sure what you mean when you say cybercrit, but its a vasty deep, from me to Bruce Sterling to William Gibson to Jaron Lanier to Neil Denari to Andrew Ross to Friedrich Kittler to Virilio to Baudrillard to Constance Penley to Donna Haraway to Arthur Kroker (no endorsement implied, by the way) to Sandy Stone to Erik Davis to Julian Dibbell to Geert Lovink to Lev Manov to the technofeminists (with Sadie Plant carrying the battle standard) to the Afro-futurists (a term I coined, as you may know) to Douglas Rushkoff to Steven Johnson to Scott Bukatman to Gary Chapman to Langdon Winner to the Father of Us All, Marshall McLuhan. Are you saying *none* of us---cultural critics in particular, cybercritics in specific---has a glimmer of insight? That were *all* preening popinjays, writing to seem impressive, muddying our waters with jargon to make them look deep, blithely unconcerned with Truth (your usage, and Frankfurts, seems to demand the upper-case T) or social change in any lasting sense? As a thought experiment, ask yourself: couldnt this charge be leveled at *any* discourse by an outsider innocent of its breadth and depth, familiar only with its most strenuous self-promoters, and unfamiliar with its intellectual history and, be it said, specialized jargon? Doesnt it sound just a little like reactionary fulminations, from the right, about trial lawyers? But heres the thing: what really troubles me in this line of argument is its grinding utilitarianism, the imputation that we should be able to drop a coin in the slot and have a gumballs worth of greatest good for the greatest number pop out. The imputation, as I hear it, is that ideas must produce quantifiable results or crawl off to die in some academic ossuary---the History of Consciousness program at UC Santa Cruz, say. I smell something in this argument that stinks of a suffocating pragmatism---one of the defining characteristics of the American mind since the days of the Puritans; something that sneers at intellectuals and their close kin artists, insisting on applied sciences and Truly Useful knowledge that can be monetized, to use the ghastly corporate-ese that has spread, like kudzu, across our public discourse. Theres an inherent conservatism to this hoary argument, a knee-jerk recoil from the Love Of Ideas For Ideas Sake that reaches its mind-numbing nadir in income-inequality apologist and hyperrich plutocrat Edward Conards sneering dismissal of anyone not pursuing an MBA or a degree in computer science as art-history majors. Which is precisely why Im surprised to hear you making this point. Any man who loves Proust knows, in his bones, that the True and the Beautiful, much less the True and the Useful, are not always synonymous. Frankfurt (about whom more in a minute, in my next post) may be correct in some of his assertions, but he is least interesting when he is most correct, and less than original all the time, dull as the day is long. Id rather walk around in a fascinating mind than a correct one any day, though its admittedly nice to explore a mind that is both. Of course, it bears noting that one can be Truthful but dull, or useful but dull, or oozing bullshit from both ears but fascinating, or sublimely useless but fascinating---permutations I somehow suspect wouldnt occur to the Frankfurts of the world. Yes, cultural criticism dreams of social change. Yes, most cultural critics see themselves as intellectual activists, critiquing culture and social relations from a radical political perspective. But are they abject failures if they shed a sea of ink without troubling Lloyd Blankfeins sleep or dragging Donald Rumsfeld before a war-crimes tribunal?
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permalink #175 of 259: . (wickett) Sun 20 May 12 18:25
permalink #175 of 259: . (wickett) Sun 20 May 12 18:25
Pardon me for peeking in from my anchorage or cloister, or wherever it was you consigned me. But do you? That was my first question. Your response was off-the-mark, perhaps because I wasn't clear. Do you, in fact, trouble any of the people you say you want to trouble?
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