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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #101 of 172: Paulina Borsook (loris) Thu 22 Oct 15 15:25
permalink #101 of 172: Paulina Borsook (loris) Thu 22 Oct 15 15:25
<digaman>, in the 'dear prudence' column on slate today, someone asked about what to do about the fact that she just figured out that her adult brother is on the spectrum. prudence recommended 'the big short' because an aspergy character is one of the characters (with his attention to tiny numerical detail) who figured out a particular financial scam. WHY WASNT YOUR BOOK MENTIONED??? i ask you --- you should get your publicist right on it! and yes, all hopes for all possible awards for you.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #102 of 172: Dave Waite (dwaite) Thu 22 Oct 15 18:40
permalink #102 of 172: Dave Waite (dwaite) Thu 22 Oct 15 18:40
One of the things that fascinated me about Ms. Grandin was a drawing I saw from her sketchbook regarding the movement of animals to slaughter. It immediately brought me to a remembrance of a drawing I in the late 70s or early 80s depicting an "autistic" youths interpretation of a bicycle. All of the children were asked to draw a bicycle. All of the drawings of bicycles were viewed from the side - seeing both wheels as round, but the autistic drawing showed the bike from a birds view. Basically a straight line except for the seat and handlebars(with slightly more detail). I wish I could find that picture. I'm sorry for going off on a tangent, but the remarkable ability to see things differently, and not discount those interpretations, but look for the insight on why has always weighed heavily in my mind. Some of our best discoveries were because someone looked at things differently.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #103 of 172: Steve Silberman (digaman) Sat 24 Oct 15 18:45
permalink #103 of 172: Steve Silberman (digaman) Sat 24 Oct 15 18:45
Well said!
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #104 of 172: Steve Silberman (digaman) Sat 24 Oct 15 20:20
permalink #104 of 172: Steve Silberman (digaman) Sat 24 Oct 15 20:20
<jonl>, sorry I missed this earlier: > Is there any movement to upgrade the understanding of autism in public schools, so that the "special needs" programs are more nurturing? Yes, there is, but I'm not an expert in this area by any means. I hear from teachers, parents, and students that it's a constant struggle. Nurturing inclusive forms of education is good for both kids on the spectrum and their typical peers, because it builds the foundation of a more tolerant society and reduces bullying. But each kid is different, so the appropriate setting must be suited to the kid. That's one of the huge issues that society has been overlooking and underfunding while arguing about vaccines and spending millions of dollars on research into the causes of autism.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #105 of 172: . (wickett) Sun 25 Oct 15 01:28
permalink #105 of 172: . (wickett) Sun 25 Oct 15 01:28
I wonder if you'd like to comment about this Atlantic article about women and girls on the spectrum: The Invisible Women With Autism http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/10/the-invisible-women-with- autism/410806/ Misdiagnosed and misunderstood, autistic women and girls frequently struggle to get the support they need. Apoorva Mandavilli Oct 22, 2015 It took 10 years, 14 psychiatrists, 17 medications, and nine diagnoses before someone finally realized that what Maya has is autism. Maya loves numbers, and with her impeccable memory, she can rattle off these stats: that the very first psychiatrist she saw later lost his right to practice because he slept with his patients. That psychiatrist number 12 met with her for all of seven minutes and sent her out with no answers. That during her second year at Cambridge University in the U.K., industrial doses of the antipsychotic quetiapine led her to pack on more than 40 pounds and sleep 17 hours a day. (Maya requested that her last name not be used in this story.) But those numbers donât do justice to her story. Itâs the long list of diagnoses Maya collected before she was 21, from borderline personality disorder to agoraphobia to obsessive-compulsive disorder, that begin to hint at how little we understand autism in women. Her conversation with psychiatrist number 14 went something like this: Do you hear things that others donât? Yes. (Mayaâs hearing is excellent.) Do you think others are talking about you behind your back? Yes. (Mayaâs extended family is particularly gossipy.) The psychiatrist didnât explain exactly what he was trying to assess. Literal to a fault, Maya didnât explain what she meant by her answers. She left his office with her eighth diagnosis: paranoid personality disorder. Maya does have some of the conditions sheâs been diagnosed with over the yearsâsheâs been depressed since the age of 11, has crippling social anxiety, and in her teens, wrestled with anorexia. But these were just expressions of the autism that was there for anyone to see had they looked closer. âItâs all secondary to the Aspergerâs,â says Maya, now 24. âI get depressed and anxious because life is difficult; itâs not the other way around.â Itâs not uncommon for young women like Maya to be repeatedly misdiagnosed. ...
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #106 of 172: Craig Maudlin (clm) Sun 25 Oct 15 09:52
permalink #106 of 172: Craig Maudlin (clm) Sun 25 Oct 15 09:52
Interesting article -- which has me wondering: where are the best current descriptions of these 'neuro-disorders' ? For example, how good are discriptions such as this: <http://www.autismsciencefoundation.org/what-is-autism> which ends with: "There are five Autism Spectrum Disorders, sometimes called Pervasive Developmental Disorders (PDD): * PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Delay - Not Otherwise Specified). * Autism (sometimes referred to as Classic Autism, Early Infantile Autism, Childhood Autism, or Autistic Disorder) * Asperger Syndrome * Rett Syndrome * Childhood Disintegrative Disorder"
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #107 of 172: Scott Underwood (esau) Sun 25 Oct 15 11:04
permalink #107 of 172: Scott Underwood (esau) Sun 25 Oct 15 11:04
The article <wickett> cites is quite sad -- she had a hard life. It underscores how different each patient's case is, and (nongrammatically) how more unique each girl's case is, since we have even more societal constraints around normal behavior for girls. The list in <106> is interesting, and perhaps out of date -- those five disorders are not found in the DSM description, I don't think: <https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/diagnosis/dsm-5-diagnostic- criteria> For instance, I hadn't heard of Rett syndrome, and it doesn't seem to appear in "NeuroTribes." It's a fairly severe brain disorder with some autism-like features (like repetitive hand movements) that almost only affects girls. It is no longer listed in the DSM because it has a physical aspect and a known molecular origin. In its way, it's like Down syndrome, a genetic disorder that has both physical and neurological components.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #108 of 172: Craig Maudlin (clm) Mon 26 Oct 15 08:04
permalink #108 of 172: Craig Maudlin (clm) Mon 26 Oct 15 08:04
Thanks. I guess we are bumping up against the challenge of trying to get a handle on an unknown number of underlying causes by cataloging various observable symptoms. Is Rett syndrome's being dropped from the DSM an example of a disorder becoming sufficiently well understood that it is no longer lumped in with the less certain 'spectrum' disorders? Is this a pattern we should expect to repeat in the future?
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #109 of 172: Scott Underwood (esau) Mon 26 Oct 15 08:14
permalink #109 of 172: Scott Underwood (esau) Mon 26 Oct 15 08:14
The history of the DSM is probably worth a book on its own.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #110 of 172: Scott Underwood (esau) Mon 26 Oct 15 08:26
permalink #110 of 172: Scott Underwood (esau) Mon 26 Oct 15 08:26
Steve, it's our last official day, so I wanted to ask one last question about you and your work. You are a science journalist, though in the tradition of your friend Oliver Sacks you've clearly always had your eye on the personal stories of the people behind the science. Your friends on the Well also know your deep interest in music, which you also write about eloquently. Now you are recognized as the reigning expert on Autism Spectrum Disorder, and your work begins to edge into advocacy and activism on behalf of those affected, and to combat ignorance of bad science. How does that role suit you? And what's next for you -- do you see yourself getting deeper into the battles on this front, or do other vistas beckon?
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #111 of 172: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 26 Oct 15 13:57
permalink #111 of 172: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 26 Oct 15 13:57
<wickett>, I liked that article very much. It's a hugely important issue. Thanks, <esau>. > the reigning expert on Autism Spectrum Disorder, Heaven forbid! I am certainly not this. I am the reigning expert on the social history of autism chronicled in my book. My book is a very personal take on the subject that happens to be the most accessible take on that particular aspect of history. There are at least two other good ones -- Adam Feinstein's "A History of Autism" and Gil Eyal's "The Autism Matrix" -- but those books are intended primarily for academic audiences (particularly Eyal's), not for a broad lay readership. My book also contains "scoops" that the others don't, such as my discovery of the connection between Leo Kanner and Hans Asperger through Georg Frankl. > and your work begins to edge into advocacy and activism on behalf of those affected, and to combat ignorance of bad science. How does that role suit you? Very good question. I'm just feeling it out. I've obviously done a ton of media, but the book just came out two months ago. I'm already wearying of the sound of my own voice talking on the subject. I think that autistic people themselves should be at the forefront of advocating for the autistic community. My position as a neurotypical ally has been strategically useful for now, but hopefully, young autism advocates, like the members of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network (autisticadvocacy.org), will make me obsolete.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #112 of 172: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 26 Oct 15 14:00
permalink #112 of 172: Steve Silberman (digaman) Mon 26 Oct 15 14:00
Thank you so much, <jonl> and <esau>, for hosting this conversation. I very much enjoyed it. Thank you all for asking such intelligent questions. Feel free to follow my appearance schedule at stevesilberman.com if you want to say hi in person. See you down the road.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #113 of 172: . (wickett) Mon 26 Oct 15 14:12
permalink #113 of 172: . (wickett) Mon 26 Oct 15 14:12
Thank you, Steve, for the book, this conversation, the light you have shone in dark corners, your interweaving of both the connections and the dissonance of the past 80 odd years, and your support and preparation for the next stage.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #114 of 172: jelly fish challenged (reet) Mon 26 Oct 15 14:15
permalink #114 of 172: jelly fish challenged (reet) Mon 26 Oct 15 14:15
Thank you all, this has been wonderful, illuminating and deep.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #115 of 172: Peter Meuleners (pjm) Mon 26 Oct 15 14:23
permalink #115 of 172: Peter Meuleners (pjm) Mon 26 Oct 15 14:23
Best Inkwell in a long time. Thanks!
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #116 of 172: Katherine Spinner (katherines) Mon 26 Oct 15 14:30
permalink #116 of 172: Katherine Spinner (katherines) Mon 26 Oct 15 14:30
I hope you'll be in Seattle, Steve. (I hope you haven't been here without my finding that information.) We are the epicenter of the Applied Behavioral Analysis approach to early intervention, I'd be interested to know the view of that rigid, behaviorist method among people with autism. In December I'll get to attend a 4 hour workshop on a play-based intervention ("floor time", with some modifications on the original) and I wonder if any other Seattleites will be there...
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #117 of 172: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Mon 26 Oct 15 15:58
permalink #117 of 172: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Mon 26 Oct 15 15:58
Dear Steve, keep on keeping on. Your work helps so many people.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #118 of 172: Don Mussell (dmsml) Mon 26 Oct 15 16:12
permalink #118 of 172: Don Mussell (dmsml) Mon 26 Oct 15 16:12
Yes, thanks Steve. The book is a great contribution to the on-going journey.
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permalink #119 of 172: Brady Lea (brady) Mon 26 Oct 15 18:51
permalink #119 of 172: Brady Lea (brady) Mon 26 Oct 15 18:51
Thanks so much, Steve. And congratulations on the success of the book.
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #120 of 172: Dave Waite (dwaite) Mon 26 Oct 15 19:46
permalink #120 of 172: Dave Waite (dwaite) Mon 26 Oct 15 19:46
Thanks for sharing your stories here Steve. I hope you continued success in your endeavors. Best topic on the well!
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permalink #121 of 172: Steve Silberman (digaman) Tue 27 Oct 15 09:07
permalink #121 of 172: Steve Silberman (digaman) Tue 27 Oct 15 09:07
Thanks so much, folks! It was nice to be back on the WELL again, too -- (sob). Once the book tsunami is over, I'll try to get back here more. By the way, if any of you are New Yorkers, I'll be interviewed at NYU tonight at 6 by WSJ science journalist Robert Lee Hotz: Arthur L. Carter Journalism Institute at New York University 20 Cooper Square, 7th floor Commons, New York, NY See all you folks later!
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Steve Silberman, Neurotribes
permalink #122 of 172: David Gans (tnf) Tue 27 Oct 15 09:12
permalink #122 of 172: David Gans (tnf) Tue 27 Oct 15 09:12
We miss you around here, Steve. Congratulations on this extremely important work. I kvell for your success!!
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permalink #123 of 172: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 29 Oct 15 12:53
permalink #123 of 172: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 29 Oct 15 12:53
Just want to chime in with a big THANKS to Steve and everybody who joined the conversation! So great to watch Steve's star rising...
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permalink #124 of 172: John Spears (banjojohn) Mon 2 Nov 15 17:36
permalink #124 of 172: John Spears (banjojohn) Mon 2 Nov 15 17:36
And congratulations to Steve Silberman on winning the Samuel Johnson Prize for Non-Fiction today: <http://www.thesamueljohnsonprize.co.uk/news/samuel-johnson-prize-non-fiction-2 015-winner>
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permalink #125 of 172: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Mon 2 Nov 15 17:38
permalink #125 of 172: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Mon 2 Nov 15 17:38
"First popular science book to win the prize in its 17-year history." I am so happy for you, Steve.
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