Inkwell: Authors and Artists
Topic 486: David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #26 of 74: jelly fish challenged (reet) Mon 14 Dec 15 19:45
permalink #26 of 74: jelly fish challenged (reet) Mon 14 Dec 15 19:45
Though he class size is awfully big.
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #27 of 74: Lisa Harris (lrph) Tue 15 Dec 15 02:47
permalink #27 of 74: Lisa Harris (lrph) Tue 15 Dec 15 02:47
A subject many of us on The WELL have discussed for years is the usefulness of homework. While it may not necessarily boost achievement, is there any good use for homework? How did we get to the point where some students have 2-3 hours of schoolwork after school is out for the day?
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #28 of 74: Bruce Umbaugh (bumbaugh) Tue 15 Dec 15 07:52
permalink #28 of 74: Bruce Umbaugh (bumbaugh) Tue 15 Dec 15 07:52
<kafclown>, that sounds like a really cool school! Going back to <10>: "The notion that we have a whole child, not a fractionated one, seems to be on the decline." Do we have good ways to track progress with whole children? Or to put it differently, other than relying solely on the good intentions and abilities of teachers and their administrative bosses, and apart from fractioned testing, how do we achieve accountability for learning? (Obviously it's a problem, or we wouldn't be worried about devolving authority to Arizona and Alabama, as you say.)
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #29 of 74: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Tue 15 Dec 15 07:54
permalink #29 of 74: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Tue 15 Dec 15 07:54
<scribbled by tcn Tue 15 Dec 15 07:55>
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #30 of 74: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Tue 15 Dec 15 07:56
permalink #30 of 74: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Tue 15 Dec 15 07:56
Also wondering about the digital divide. As most classrooms are discovering and using open source learning and digital tools (my granddaughter has her own Gmail, G+, Skype accounts and uses Google docs and drive regularly)what's being done to close the divide? Both on the side of training teachers to implement the tools, platforms and affordances available as well as bringing students into a digital literacy. Saw this article this morning: http://ww2.kqed.org/mindshift/2015/12/14/what-achieving-digital-equity-using-o nl ine-courses-could-look-like/ My first thought was, oh a digital version of no child left behind, but they get the problem correctly. Federal and State money ever going to arrive at the local school level, or are relying on the benevolence of Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg?
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #31 of 74: jelly fish challenged (reet) Tue 15 Dec 15 10:00
permalink #31 of 74: jelly fish challenged (reet) Tue 15 Dec 15 10:00
I ahve all the same questions! Plus, as an early education teacher (ages 3-9), I watched that early zest for discovering and learning just get smashed by the sheer volume of homework, be it well conceived or dumb paperwork.
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #32 of 74: Lisa Harris (lrph) Tue 15 Dec 15 14:20
permalink #32 of 74: Lisa Harris (lrph) Tue 15 Dec 15 14:20
I just had a meeting with my principal about sending packets home over winter break. I lost the battle. I am required to send home work I know will: be busy work for the kids who will actually do it; and not get done by the kids who could use some extra practice. The reason it's been mandated? Because our school went down a letter grade this past year. The reason we went down a letter grade? Florida didn't factor in learning gains into school grades for the first time - it was straight pass/no pass. Apparently, learning gains aren't important if the kids who didn't make the grade last year can't make the grade plus one more grade this year. I have to stop thinking about this crap and just focus on teaching the babies.
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #33 of 74: Cliff Dweller (robinsline) Tue 15 Dec 15 15:22
permalink #33 of 74: Cliff Dweller (robinsline) Tue 15 Dec 15 15:22
Sample vacation homework assignments for a five year old: 1. Spend one hour outside each day. 2. Sing two songs to your family. 3. Make a sandwich. 4. Ask someone to read one book with you each day. (Can be the same book) 5. Jump up and down 100 times. 6. Draw a picture using five different colors. 7. Make five crazy faces in the mirror. 8. Spell your name out loud. 9. Try to do a handstand. 10. Look for the moon every night.
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #34 of 74: Eric Rawlins (woodman) Tue 15 Dec 15 15:56
permalink #34 of 74: Eric Rawlins (woodman) Tue 15 Dec 15 15:56
That's great.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #35 of 74: Lisa Harris (lrph) Tue 15 Dec 15 16:50
permalink #35 of 74: Lisa Harris (lrph) Tue 15 Dec 15 16:50
I tried that. No go. Has to be a packet of worksheets and a reading log. ugh. If only those packets could change the socioeconomic and ESOL status of my students.
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #36 of 74: jelly fish challenged (reet) Tue 15 Dec 15 18:30
permalink #36 of 74: jelly fish challenged (reet) Tue 15 Dec 15 18:30
>>>>learning gains aren't important if the kids who didn't make the grade last year can't make the grade plus one more grade this year I despair. What a set-up for failure.
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #37 of 74: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Wed 16 Dec 15 02:05
permalink #37 of 74: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Wed 16 Dec 15 02:05
A few random observations about public school. 1. My son did not learn to read until his second time through fourth grade. When he did, it was thanks to a couple of talented, dedicated public school teachers, and the full-time one-on-one aide he had (and to his parents being very tough PPT negotiators). His K-6 school has 140 kids in it, and we live in a highly unaffluent town. So it was a burden, and I feel bad about that. But at the local level, we are all fighting over crumbs. And we will always be grateful to that little school and those teachers. 2. The same son ended up at technical school in ninth grade, learnign to be a machinist. He turns out to be a talented metalworker. But the tech schools are no longer the place you go when your aptitudes (probably a dirty word now) are toward the trades and away from academics. So at his tech school, there is only a pre-college curriculum, no tracking. We assured the school that as parents with five graduate degrees between us, it would be okay by us if our son did not take Algebra 2. But they stood firm in their conviction that there is no such thing as an academically untalented kid, and that everyone has to be ready to go to college, even the students they are training to be machinists, mechanics, electricians and plumbers, a policy that would be funny if it weren't insane. They did say that if he failed Alg 2 in his junior year, then in his senior year he could take Business Math to complte his math requirement. We contended that he probably didn't need another academic failure to build his character, and suggested that we just cut to the chase and put him in business math. They refused. So we took him out of school. We bought a homeschool curriculum, hired a tutor, and he is now a high school graduate at age 17. He's taking in welding and fabrication work--right now there is a truck in the driveway on which he is replacing the spring shackles, and another due next week to ahve a bed built. More to the point, our lives are infinitely better now that he is not spending half his days doing something he is not good at and his evenings fighting with us about doing homework that we all think is pointless. ANd we will always resent the suffering the public school system imposed on our family--maybe even more than we will be grateful for its teaching him to read. 3. My wife, a dedicated high school teacher for nearly 30 years, and one of the most upbeat people I know, is demoralized in a way I have never seen in her by the corporatized, test-driven, inhumane environment in which she now works every day. I won't chronicle the indignities, but suffice it to say that if she is getting bitter, then things must be terrible out there.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #38 of 74: jelly fish challenged (reet) Wed 16 Dec 15 10:49
permalink #38 of 74: jelly fish challenged (reet) Wed 16 Dec 15 10:49
Man, does that ever illustrate exactly why treating schools like factories is so wrong.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #39 of 74: David Berliner (guestwri) Thu 17 Dec 15 16:55
permalink #39 of 74: David Berliner (guestwri) Thu 17 Dec 15 16:55
Dear colleagues, Thank you all for your responses. Let me say something of a general nature. We have well over 50 million students and a huge teaching force and administrative staff to serve them. If an occasional teacher or administrator acts stupidly it is terrible, but among so many professional that has to happen occasionally. They probably do less harm than the physicians who kill about 400,000 patients a year, by accident. While the medical profession is killing its patients, we complain about teachers who are not always meeting our expectations for how they should handle our children, but probably isnt killing them off! Seems to me we are raising our voices over the lesser of the two issues. The problem for the vast majority of teachers and administrators is the context in which they work. They are not free to practice their profession but take their orders from distant capitols, both federal and state. Public education is a highly political operation. To me, the causes of so many of its current problems lie with the politicians throughout America and less with the administrators and teachers we currently have. So, when Gary Greenbergs wife loses her love of the field she had chosen, is it simple burnout, or the politicalization of her profession? When their son is channeled into course work he is neither competent in nor interested in, is it the insensitive administrator's fault, or the fault of state legislators that demand certain kinds of accountability by the school? Those same [now] inappropriate administrators, 10 years previously, were the ones that helped their son to read. Maybe not without pushing, but the school did accommodate. In the last decade and a half, public schools have become much more subject to the politicalization of education and have much less autonomy at the school level and in turn, less autonomy the classroom. When Lisa Harris is required to do something she does not believe in as a professional educator, what we see is the politicalization of the school, and her principal giving in. That principal should be sticking her middle finger up in the air to the folks she gets those memos from, and after doing so she should tell the teachers she believes in, do it your way, you're the professional.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #40 of 74: David Berliner (guestwri) Thu 17 Dec 15 17:15
permalink #40 of 74: David Berliner (guestwri) Thu 17 Dec 15 17:15
The question about selective schools is a good one. Due to the housing patterns that have developed in the United States, we now run an apartheid-lite system of education. Parents of any race and any religion can live anywhere they want, provided they can afford to do so. If there are inequalities in income by race or ethnicity, then we see what has occurred in modern America. Wealthy people, mostly white, live with other wealthy people, mostly white. Poor people, often people of color and recent immigrants, live with other people of color and recent immigrants, in the poorer neighborhoods. Because we have such local systems of schooling, and local elementary schools, what we have in America is an apartheid-lite system of schooling. Poor kids go to school with poor kids and rich kids go to school with rich kids. This is important because, among the most robust findings we have in educational research, is the fact that the cohort you go to school with acts as a powerful influence on your future. Is that cohort college-bound? Is that cohort happier on the streets than in the classrooms? Do poor kids in a poor school even know how to negotiate the applications necessary to get into college ? Cohorts matter! Cohorts matter and our system of housing and local schooling means there will be considerable segregation by income and often by race and ethnicity. So, can a school district overcome this? Parents in the wealthy and white suburbs scream when they find their children need to be bused across town and the children from across town are bussed to their! local schools. This is precisely what has happened in Wake County North Carolina. But Wake County has stayed with their bussing system, one designed to integrate the schools by social class..What they have done is limited poverty rates to about 40% in every school in their system. They do a lot of busing to achieve that maximum. As I understand it, what happened was exactly what was hoped for. The schools now are more uniformly good, though perhaps there are fewer excelling. On the other hand, for those of us that care deeply about preserving our democracy, is the fact that there seem to be few if any bad schools left in Wake County. The bussing on the basis of family income apparently works. It should also be noted that the research evidence is remarkably consistent. When you mix academically advanced children with lower achieving children, the lower achieving children end up doing better, and there is no decline in the abilities of the more academically talented children. Their growth rate and final status in achievement seems about the same as if they had been segregated from the lower achieving students. But when you bus to achieve social equity, or you detrack classes inside a school so that all the children are in mixed ability classes, you almost always get a backlash. But the fact remains that the more advanced students are not harmed while the less advantaged students are helped. The question for the community is whether they will think of the greater good or worry instead about the apparent advantage for their own children. These are very difficult social issues to solve. Having said all this, I'm also a fan of selective schools for special talents. I grew up in New York. We had Stuyvesant High School, Science sigh school, the High School of Music and Art, and each of these let in students based only on ability. Each of them has produced talented graduates in the arts and sciences. The problem with the schools, however, is that if they are strictly test based for entrance, they will only pull from certain groups. Currently black and Hispanic students are not getting into science High School or Stuyvesant high school at rates we would hope for. And Asian students are getting in at rates far exceeding their percentage in NYC. On the one hand, the entrance to the schools is absolutely fair. It is test score. On the other hand, without some concern for how to identify motivated and talented students in other minority segments of the city, we end up with a somewhat segregated school. Again, there are no easy solutions to these issues. But my thoughts about democracy usually take precedent over thoughts about absolute fairness. I'd make sure we had a sufficient number of talented and motivated minorities being given a chance to enter Science and Stuyvesant, and other elite institutions, public and private, but then Id make sure that those schools provide the counseling and guidance needed to see that they succeed. The America we want means some accommodations to the plight of disadvantaged students, and not strict adherence to what appears to be fairness. The supreme court is debating these issue as I write, as they sort out the issues in the affirmative action case associated with the U of Texas.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #41 of 74: David Berliner (guestwri) Thu 17 Dec 15 17:16
permalink #41 of 74: David Berliner (guestwri) Thu 17 Dec 15 17:16
To Lisa, who asks if we will reduce testing and increase teaching time soon, my answer is yes. The fact that parents are opting out in huge numbers will destroy the validity of the tests. The governors are backing off of using the tests for evaluating teachers. They don't work. Politicians are tired of fighting these issues, and so the new law is to give a lot of responsibility back to the states and they will give a lot of the power back to the districts. I think a few of them will actually drop a lot of the testing, simply to save some money, even if they believe in the tests!.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #42 of 74: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Thu 17 Dec 15 17:26
permalink #42 of 74: Gary Greenberg (gberg) Thu 17 Dec 15 17:26
>Public education is a highly political operation. To me, the causes of so many of its current problems lie with the politicians throughout America and less with the administrators and teachers we currently have. Well, yes and no. No doubt the tech school, which is run directly by the state (CT) and not the local districts, is taking its cues from the legislature and the state board of education. They mandated, in response to the obvious pressures, that technical schools should not be the "dumping ground" for students who were not suited to academic work. So the administrators and teachers are stuck with it, even if privately, as they have told me off the record, they think it is a stupid policy that will fail. And surely the ex-cops my wife's school, which is a rural high school in northeastern CT, have hired to strongarm students and impose military discipline on the frequent lockdown drills are there in response to social and political pressures that only a very brave, or very self-destructive, administrator could stand up to. But then again, Joel would have done just fine at the tech school with a sufficient level of special education help. He just doesn't learn well in a group setting. One-on-one, he gets it. But the same politicians and administrators have mandated that if you need more than just a little bit of special ed, you can't be at the tech school, so you ahve to return to your home district, there to get an education that won't even have the technical education component that makes the whole thing something like worthwhile. So we approached the school and offered to take over the education ourselves. We told them that we would implement their curriculum at home, hiring tutors at our expense, and that Joel would only attend school during the nine-day cycles when he would be in shop. All this required was for the principle to override the attendance requirement, which is totally within his powers to do. He would be educated like a homebound student, of which there are many(but again, not at the tech schools.) The principal refused. That's not the legislature's fault. That's an administrator who is either too scared or too full of the kool-aid to grab a good deal (for everyone) when he sees one.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #43 of 74: It's all done with mirrors... (kafclown) Thu 17 Dec 15 23:05
permalink #43 of 74: It's all done with mirrors... (kafclown) Thu 17 Dec 15 23:05
Interestingly, before we lived in Chicago we lived in Yonkers which gives kids choices of school. Yonkers is required to bus all students due to the segregated schools that were back in the 90s. All the schools are by lottery except for 1, which is a gifted and talented school, and must be tested into. The remaining schools all have different philosophies. Of them, their are about 10 that are hard to get into, and the rest are relatively dregs schools with limited resources. Not surprisingly, most of those schools are in poorer sections (actually near where we lived.) We were fortunate there, our son tested into the gifted school. There were 3 classes of 30 students per grade. The other good lottery schools (esp. the Montessori based) are VERY hard to get into. In both cases, the classes are extraordinarily diverse. In Yonkers, my son's class was about 1/3 white kids, 1/3 African American and 1/3 Asian/Hispanic. In Chicago, I'd say that his class of 34 (which are the top kids out of the 230 that got into first grade at Disney) the numbers are about the same.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #44 of 74: Dodge (dodge1234) Thu 17 Dec 15 23:15
permalink #44 of 74: Dodge (dodge1234) Thu 17 Dec 15 23:15
Geez. We used to have such schools so they could have small classrooms. I guess that's a thing of the past. I'm glad I'm not a parent now tho I despair for my grands.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #45 of 74: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Fri 18 Dec 15 02:55
permalink #45 of 74: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Fri 18 Dec 15 02:55
Caught this link this morning: http://dianeravitch.net/2015/12/17/how-essa-changes-what-states-do/ How does ESSA change things?
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #46 of 74: Bruce (bumbaugh) Fri 18 Dec 15 14:43
permalink #46 of 74: Bruce (bumbaugh) Fri 18 Dec 15 14:43
I thought the book did a nice job on Myth 10 pointing out that teachers are not well paid in the U.S. You both compared teaching to other jobs in this country and also to teachers' wages in other countries. Schools, presumably, have to be better funded in order to compensate teachers more highly. Can you some something about the ways that school funding works across the country?
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #47 of 74: Lisa Harris (lrph) Fri 18 Dec 15 15:00
permalink #47 of 74: Lisa Harris (lrph) Fri 18 Dec 15 15:00
It works stupidly. Oh, did I say that out loud? One thing I know, money comes from different sources for different purposes. A few years ago, our district got a butt ton of money for *communication*. We spent over 5 million dollars on a new phone system, but there were still funds left over. Meanwhile, that same year, my kids didn't have textbooks in science class - not enough money for textbooks. The extra money left over from the phone system could NOT be used for textbooks because textbooks are instructional materials, not communication.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #48 of 74: jelly fish challenged (reet) Fri 18 Dec 15 19:12
permalink #48 of 74: jelly fish challenged (reet) Fri 18 Dec 15 19:12
Yep, it crazy. We've had years when we were CUTTING PAPER TOWELS IN HALF because thee was no money for what we really needed when at the same tim there was money spent on staff retreats.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #49 of 74: Bruce (bumbaugh) Tue 22 Dec 15 14:37
permalink #49 of 74: Bruce (bumbaugh) Tue 22 Dec 15 14:37
As most places, here in Missouri property taxes figure very heavily in making money available to educate children. The awful catch here -- one of the awful catches -- is the "Hancock Amendment" that limits the ability of governments to raise revenue. When property values decline, revenue falls. (Districts can raise the tax *rate* to make up for this, but only to an established level and they are typically already operating at or near that level.) So, in 2008, schools were squeezed. In the event that property values rebound, revenue increases. That increase, though, is limited by the Missouri Constitution (on account of the aforementioned amendment) in a way that typically caps it at the Consumer Price Index. That, of course, makes it very hard to recover to the revenue level from before a recession. The result is that schools must go to the voters over and over for approval to sell bonds not only for funding for capital projects (new buildings to accommodate growth, new laboratories, ADA compliance) but also for teacher salary increases. Madness.
inkwell.vue.486
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David Berliner & Gene Glass, 50 Myths and Lies That Threaten American Public Schools.
permalink #50 of 74: David Berliner (guestwri) Tue 22 Dec 15 21:32
permalink #50 of 74: David Berliner (guestwri) Tue 22 Dec 15 21:32
To Bruce: Others have answered. Its a mess. Money in most government operations is catagorical: so much for this, so much for that. If you need more for this, and less for that, you have to be highly creative to move that money across categories. The Pentagon has that problem, as do all the other agencies. ANd if you have money left at the end of the year you may have to give it back, thus most federal agencies dump money in September, before the end of the fiscal year. States do that too. A lot of money is pushed out doors just before the deadline. Why does it work this way? No on trusts the bureacrats to make sensible decisions. I had that problem as dean in AZ with state funds. Its distrust that has built this system, and some of that may be for good reasons, but it hampers good administrators a lot. If I were czar Id give every administrator about a 10 percent pot of money from the budget to do as they please--conferences, staff development, repairs that were unbudgeted, part time help for special reasons, etc. Without any flexibility most educational administrators are quite restricted--though the best of them manipulate the system even with its constraints. But in AZ and some other states the budgets are so tight that there is not a lot of wiggle room even for the best administraors. We tie their hands and expect miracles, but a lot of educational success comes from having money to do some really neat things.
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