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History of Rock and Roll - Volume 1
permalink #126 of 177: Cliff Dweller (robinsline) Wed 25 Jan 17 11:30
permalink #126 of 177: Cliff Dweller (robinsline) Wed 25 Jan 17 11:30
There is a plaque, and a sign inside. Nothing really to see though. They don't make anything of it and the place is full of laundry machines (many out of order).
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History of Rock and Roll - Volume 1
permalink #127 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 12:18
permalink #127 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 12:18
Okay, that's incredible. Almost as incredible as the fact that for years and years and years -- until the mid-'60s, when Marshall Seahorn and Allen Toussaint opened Seasaint, in fact -- it was the only studio in town. Studios can be magical places. I was once in United Sound in Detroit with some friends and George Clinton and Bootsy Collins, waiting for George to finish doing a drum track with Bootsy, and while they were conferring in the booth, I saw a vibraphone standing in the studio, so, never having really looked at one, I walked over and picked up the two mallets. I hit two notes, then two more, and almost peed my pants: I had just played the opening of "Baby Love," in the studio where it had been recorded, possibly on the instrument it had been played on. I put down the mallets and went back to waiting for George.
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History of Rock and Roll - Volume 1
permalink #128 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 12:25
permalink #128 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 12:25
<mcdee>, who was Marvin Gaye Gordy, ie, how did he fit in to the story? Berry's son? And <tcn>, I'm not sure what you're getting at in your first paragraph at all, but as for cannabis, it goes back at least to Louis Armstrong, a very vocal supporter, and was in widespread use throughout the era I cover in this volume. Musicians loved it: they knew the damage, not only physical and psychological, that alcohol could do to a musician's ability to play, and it was a nice alternative. The oldest person I ever smoked pot with was Cotton Seed Collins, a Western Swing fiddler who was on the Willie Nelson Shotgun Willie sessions, which I attended. "Doc looked at me one day, he says 'Cotton, you don't stop drinkin', you'll be dead before you're 40. Maybe younger than that.' I said Doc, what am I supposed to do, and he said 'Well, I don't advise this, but if you go talk to some Mexican fellas about this stuff called grifa...' and I did and I been usin' it ever since!" This would have been the early '30s, judging from the records of his I have.
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permalink #129 of 177: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Wed 25 Jan 17 12:39
permalink #129 of 177: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Wed 25 Jan 17 12:39
I don't even come close to knowing the Gordy family tree, which has many branches, but as near as I can figure out, he is the son of Marvin Gaye and Denise Gordy, who was Barry Gordy's niece. He was later adopted by Anna Gordy, her aunt (and Barry Gordy's sister). Cue "I'm My Own Grandpa."
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permalink #130 of 177: Ozro W. Childs (oz) Wed 25 Jan 17 14:16
permalink #130 of 177: Ozro W. Childs (oz) Wed 25 Jan 17 14:16
I first heard rock 'n roll in about 1955 when I was 10. My initial source was the Lucky Lager hit parade -- some beer company anyhow. Then in 1957 I went to junior high and there was this amazing daytime station out of Santa Monica, KDAY. Absolutely everyone in my school listened to it every afternoon and twice on weekends. I think among my peers, the first rock record was Earth Angel. Even though it was a slow song, if you went to the hop, it was played for the slow dances. But the truly magnetic performer was Little Richard. Elvis was Elvis, and did do "Jailhouse Rock" but he wasn't really a rock 'n roll performer. Nor was Chuck Berry, not in the way Little Richard was. Now as an oldie we of course heard Bill Haley and his comets. He was allegedly the first rock star. But again, it was Little Richard who got people up and dancing. We did live in a time when many different genres were to be heard on the same radio station. And also, a great many R&B records that we white kids never heard when we were small are revived and replayed after 1955, It was easy to see the connection between R&B and rock. What was really sad was that old-fashioned rock pretty much died out in the years between, say, 1959 or 1960 and the revival that started with the Beatles.
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History of Rock and Roll - Volume 1
permalink #131 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 14:20
permalink #131 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 14:20
And Anna was in the record business before Berry (not Barry), because she owned the Chess-distributed Anna label where Berry had to park "Money" by Barrett Strong because after recording and mastering it he didn't have enough money to press and distribute it himself. A large, but complicated, family, indeed, but their incredible ability to organize and pool resources helped Berry set up his record store and, after that failed, raise the money for what eventually became Motown. Slip from <oz>, which I'll deal with next.
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permalink #132 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 14:23
permalink #132 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 14:23
<oz>, I gather you haven't read the book. To say "Elvis was Elvis, and did do "Jailhouse Rock" but he wasn't really a rock 'n roll performer. Nor was Chuck Berry, not in the way Little Richard was." is patently ridiculous. Elvis liked to rock, but after he got out of the Army he got less and less chance to do it until the famous '68 comeback special. Chuck Berry may have had different roots than Richard, but I can't see how you can claim that the guy who wrote and had hits with songs like "School Day," "Rock and Roll Music," "Johnny B. Goode" and "Sweet Little Rock and Roller" wasn't a rock and roll performer.
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permalink #133 of 177: David Wilson (dlwilson) Wed 25 Jan 17 14:38
permalink #133 of 177: David Wilson (dlwilson) Wed 25 Jan 17 14:38
<129> Marvin Gay's wife in 1977 to 81 was Jan, the daughter of Slim Gaillard.
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permalink #134 of 177: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Wed 25 Jan 17 14:49
permalink #134 of 177: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Wed 25 Jan 17 14:49
#127 So sweet. "Baby Love" and "Where Did Our Love Go" were the first rock tunes that made me pay attention to the rhythm section.. It was different from what I'd been hearing and got my attention. Everything fell squarely, with each quarter note getting equal emphasis. The kick and the snare were of equal volume, and everything else in the track seemed to come down four on the floor. It was different than the Beatles and Stones, and that's what got my attention with Motown On the Beatles' "Twist and Shout", the rhythm section is almost buried. It's all guitars and vocals. Get up to "I Want To Hold Your Hand", and the kick is out there, but the snare is buried. Motown had the difference that made a difference..
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permalink #135 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 15:01
permalink #135 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 15:01
Well, Berry always said that "The Sound Of Young America" meant that the tambourine was there so even white folks could dance to it. (Of course, he never said that in public). I met Jan Gaye on the frenetic, cocaine-paranoia few days I chased Marvin around LA for a CREEM article that never happened because I never was able to talk to him and my photographer couldn't get him to sit still long enough to take pictures. This was just before the Here, My Dear album. Very weird times. But I had no idea she was Slim Gaillard's daughter!
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permalink #136 of 177: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Wed 25 Jan 17 17:17
permalink #136 of 177: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Wed 25 Jan 17 17:17
The movie "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" gave me an entirely new perspective. I realized instantly (once the move helpfully pointed it out) that a big part of what's kept me coming back to those songs is the superb musicianship - not least those rhythm sections. If I'd asked any of my buddies at the time what they thought of the great musicians who were always on those Motown hits, I'm pretty sure the response would have been "huh?" I guess growing up in the shadows of Jimi Hendrix, as it were, made us all blind to any playing that didn't call attention to itself. Great playing was part of the Motown formula, but not part of the image.
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permalink #137 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 17:47
permalink #137 of 177: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 25 Jan 17 17:47
See, this concentration on individuals is so recent, but the great players have been there all along. Who knew the names of the sidemen? Who cared? Back in this era, pop music was supposed to be disposable enjoyment: chew it until it loses its flavor, then stick it on the underside of the desk!
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permalink #138 of 177: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Wed 25 Jan 17 19:07
permalink #138 of 177: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Wed 25 Jan 17 19:07
Right. But the great sidemen (and a few women) were part of the appeal all along and it's kind of fun to realize that. At least it's fun for me. I can see how it could take you in an over-analytical direction and spoil the experience, but I don't seem to wired that way. You tell me that the key ingredient in my favorite dish is fenugreek and I'll take a bite, say "Wow, you're right!" ...and then I'll go right back to enjoying it.
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permalink #139 of 177: (fom) Wed 25 Jan 17 20:39
permalink #139 of 177: (fom) Wed 25 Jan 17 20:39
>If I'd been hanging with Mike Bloomfield in Chicago in 1961 >The twist was a very important moment. It started as a midwestern teenage black thing I first met Mike around '62 (His wife was besties with my friend Benita) and he was presenting traditional Southern Black musicians at the... Purple Onion? Fickle Pickle? Some name like that. I remember one of the musicians was Little Brother Montgomery. Then, at my college, we had the Wednesday night Twist Parties and they were major. Butterfield, Bloomfield, Mark Naftalin, Elvin Bishop, and several South Side musicians whose names I should know but don't. Well, Sam Lay for sure. My friends and I would go to the South Side clubs occasionally and I'll try to remember the names of the bands.
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permalink #140 of 177: Darrell Jonsson (jonsson) Thu 26 Jan 17 11:44
permalink #140 of 177: Darrell Jonsson (jonsson) Thu 26 Jan 17 11:44
I heard someone say once on TV or the radio that the twist was a revolution, not just the music but the body language, the independent role of the dancers. Can't remember the source.
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permalink #141 of 177: David Gans (tnf) Thu 26 Jan 17 12:22
permalink #141 of 177: David Gans (tnf) Thu 26 Jan 17 12:22
My parents bought that Chubby Checker record and then invited a neighborhood teenager to teach them The Twist. This would have been in 1961 I guess.
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permalink #142 of 177: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Thu 26 Jan 17 12:23
permalink #142 of 177: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Thu 26 Jan 17 12:23
The Twist really was so easy that anyone could do it. Even me.
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permalink #143 of 177: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Thu 26 Jan 17 15:46
permalink #143 of 177: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Thu 26 Jan 17 15:46
I know I'm going to make some of you feel old, but my kindergarten teacher taught us how to do it!
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permalink #144 of 177: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Thu 26 Jan 17 15:53
permalink #144 of 177: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Thu 26 Jan 17 15:53
I just realized something about the Twist. Chubby Checker gave me, and god knows how many others, permission to dance. Much like the way Dylan gave us all permission to sing.
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permalink #145 of 177: Scott Underwood (esau) Thu 26 Jan 17 15:57
permalink #145 of 177: Scott Underwood (esau) Thu 26 Jan 17 15:57
Do I remember right that the Twist is mostly upper body? No sexy hip action?
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permalink #146 of 177: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Thu 26 Jan 17 16:00
permalink #146 of 177: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Thu 26 Jan 17 16:00
Not the way my kindergarten teacher taught it!
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permalink #147 of 177: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Thu 26 Jan 17 16:39
permalink #147 of 177: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Thu 26 Jan 17 16:39
Only when the Irish do it, Scott. For the rest of us the whole torso was involved. We even devloped a variant called the Spider, which was the Twist with more arm and leg stuff going on.
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permalink #148 of 177: Scott Underwood (esau) Thu 26 Jan 17 18:57
permalink #148 of 177: Scott Underwood (esau) Thu 26 Jan 17 18:57
All right. I wondered if perhaps that's what made it more acceptable. On the other hand, I'm thinking of it as yet another in a long series of dance crazes, mostly Latin, to sweep the US, like the tango, samba, mambo, and even up to the Macarena.
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permalink #149 of 177: David Wilson (dlwilson) Thu 26 Jan 17 19:47
permalink #149 of 177: David Wilson (dlwilson) Thu 26 Jan 17 19:47
<scribbled by dlwilson Thu 26 Jan 17 19:52>
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permalink #150 of 177: David Wilson (dlwilson) Thu 26 Jan 17 19:59
permalink #150 of 177: David Wilson (dlwilson) Thu 26 Jan 17 19:59
The latin dance crazes were for adults done in another era or in an another market. The dance crazes of the 60's --the twist, the slop, the mash potato, fly, hitchhike, shing-a-ling, popeye etc were generated by the labels and marketed to teenagers. American Bandst was instrumental in promoting them. I remember listening to the radio and watching bandstand and then going to teen dances and sure enough, the newest dance was sure to show up after the accumulated previous "it" dances. The twist was much bigger than any of those others though.
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