Inkwell: Authors and Artists

    
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evkwm4/how-to-be-an-ally-to-non-binary-gend
er-non-conforming-people-support

^ this article from Vice lists ways to be a good advocate for
non-binary folx, it may clear some stuff up for some of you
  

    

from way up above, oemmasue says in #29:

" 
 *just want to be sure this is said: if you are a cis person in this
 discussion, please remember this is not a discussion about whether
 or not 'they' should be used as a gender-neutral pronoun, rather,
 it's an opportunity for those of you who aren't in circles who've
 assimilated to the use of the singular 'they' to ask how you can
 incorporate it into your vocabulary and ask about how queer culture
 has changed language since we've broadened identity-related
 terminology. If you find yourself saying things like 'but is that
 the most effective linguistic choice? 'will people ever really catch
 on?' 'why not choose a different pronoun than one that people are
 already used to using in the plural sense?' please think about how
 those questions may be invalidating to non-binary people like
 myself* "


i would like to point out that this is The Well. it is a place, a
community, where people have explored and challenged ideas, stories,
truths, and controversies for decades. to me it seems bizarre to decide,
"I'm going to limit this topic solely to this little area of a giant,
interesting discussion that I've decided is worth pursuing." 

it's kind of a shutdown. if you're bringing up the use of "they" in
conversation, you're going to hear from the many word-nerds who are part of
The Well community. those folks are going to be interested in the grammar
aspect. if you're bringing up the whole big gender mess that is
affecting our entire society in a gigantic way, why be surprised that
people want to discuss more aspects of it? 

knowing that Inkwell.vue is readable by the
outside world, i want it to be clearly stated: The Well is generally *not*
a place for refusing to delve into the difficult, controversial, or untidy
parts of a discussion. quite the opposite. it's a place where we develop
enough trust and history to jump into those discussions, reveal our true
thoughts and feelings, and extend conversations into difficult territory.

outside readers, also know that there are other Inkwell.vue, public topics
that feel more like monologues or formal Q & A interviews than like real
discussions. please don't get the wrong impression of The Well from these
Inkwell interviews. most of The Well invites deep discussion from all
participants.
  

    
I guess that <29> is also a response to my <25>.

Yes, it's curious that discussing the WORD (singular 'they') is
inappropriate in a topic titled

inkwell.vue 509: They/Them/Their - The Word of the Year
  

    <scribbled by lrph Mon 10 Feb 20 13:22>
  

    
My current circles include people who are cisgender and straight who
use "they". They have chosen it as a default pronoun. They've
broadened the spectrum gathered under the umbrella of the word. 

Since I wondered, I'll assume others do do, and add that "cis" is a
prefix from Latin. It means "on this side of", in contrast to
"trans", which means "from the other side of" or "across from".
Cisgender means someone's gender is on the same side as the
biological sex assigned at birth. 

The conversation is based on Merriam-Webster's selection of "they"
as the word of the year. In announcing their decision, the editors
wrote "More recently, though, they has also been used to refer to
one person whose gender identity is nonbinary". They went on to note
that "And the American Psychological Association’s blog officially
recommended that singular they be preferred in professional writing
over 'he or she' when the reference is to a person whose gender is
unknown or to a person who prefers they." 

They also observed that "It is increasingly common to see they and
them as a person’s pronouns in Twitter bios, email signatures, and
conference nametags." 

Sometimes, in email, that is the template in a business. Sometimes,
it is a political statement. Sometimes, it's activism. Sometimes,
it's "just so you know." 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/word-of-the-year/they

The roots of the conversation are in The Word of the Year. The Word
of the Year is rooted in gender. 

Not censorship, but focus. 

The WELL is a deep and rambling place. 

Whilst being the marginalized and the educator can be, as Lisa
observed, exhausting (and the pay is rotten, and there's no
retirement plan), the WELL seems a prime place to ask the things one
cannot or would not ask in polite company. I, for one, trip over my
own tongue here rather often. Granted, I do so in public, as well. 

If there's an awkward question at your fingertips, then my nudge is
toward typing it. We're here to talk, dig, and discover. How else
are we to grow? 

I'm not a believer in safe spaces. Can't guarantee that for anyone.
Brave is less shudder-inducing, but I can't promise any of my
students -- or any of you -- a space where you can be as brave as
the Lion at the end of Oz. 

Brave(r) and safe(r), I can give you, even at the end of a day that
began at 04:00, to allow time for a 2.5 hour commute. (Two spot
five, not twenty-five. I've done those, too, but not yet in one day.
Need to change planets for that, or roll back time.) 

So I may be fuzzy, but I say, "Have a question? Ask away." 

My thoughts only... 
  

    <scribbled by af Mon 10 Feb 20 17:50>
  

    
Ok ... Here's a specific question.

Im currently in a pantomime. (Alice in Pantoland).

My costar in two roles is gay. In our first three acts we are male.
(We both have beards).

But in the last act we cross-dress (in the pantomime tradition) as
cinderella's wicked step-sisters.

I have a line .

"look at him, he ....  " etc

I have been (in rehearsal) delivering this as 

"Look at him er.. her ... She .. er, he ..."


Any suggestions?
  

    
Im not sure that 

"Look at singular-them, singular-they"... would work 
  

    
How about, look at them
  

    

magtiff i disagree in your characterization "its kind of a shutdown". 
first of all, it hasn't shut anything down. here we all are still happily 
participating. I found emma's post to be a helpful reminder that it is not 
the role or the right of cis gendered participants to legitimize or 
approve of the use of the word they. Some of the questions being asked 
here prior to that seemed a little cringey to me. I have no academic 
background in researching well, anything really but I do know that when 
discussing people who are different than you it is best to listen more 
than lecture. 
  

    


Agree with tpy 
  

    
I appreciate all the civilized discussion about shut down vs.
not-shut down. As the topic host, I would typically weigh in on such
matters. As Emma's parent, I feel biased towards them and protective
of them (despite the fact that they don't need me to protect them). 

I do agree with <tpy> that it hasn't felt to me as though anything
has been shut down, so let's continue as we have been.
  

    
I don't feel that Emma was shutting anything down. If I gave that
impression, I apologise. 

It seemed good to acknowledge the "there is quelling" stance,
because because all sides should be openly heard, and there are
people here who are not part of the WELL. 

Those of us who spend  isn't the WELL's way to shut anything down,
unless it is harmful. This is a wide-ranging space, with plenty of
room for conversation. That's one of the reasons the WELL -- a plain
place, on the surface of it -- is still going in the age of
Facebook.  

I don't know Emma, but do know the Haus of QUOTA is a space of
welcome, celebration, and vision. That's because the people who
create it make it so. Can't imagine Emma bringing anything but
integrity, compassion, and consideration here. 

Given the WELL's propensity for delicious geekiness, it might seem
strange that we are discussing the word "they" without talking about
the word itself, this is a little like a diamond ring. The stone is
important, of course, but the setting is just as much (arguably, in
some cases, more) so. The setting for "they" is Merriam-Webster's
placement of it in "gender". Now, we're looking at late 18C rings
with mine-suit stones. Any constraint comes with the ring itself,
not with Inkwell, which is discussing it. 

My regret is that we can't talk about Haus of QUOTA. I have so many
lauds and questions... 

But the ring is the theme, so I'd like to ask whether anybody
remembers the first time they heard/read/encountered the word "they"
in this context, and how it seemed/felt/was for them. 



 
  

    
I don't remember my first time, but do remember slow-hour
conversations with my genderqueer bar manager about their partner, a
librarian in grad school, and the pushback the partner was
receiving. 

It was (and still is -- hard to bend my mind to the argument that
grammar should take precedence over what is, at its core, a person's
right to self-identify. 
  

    
I don’t see any reason not to talk about Haus of QUOTA. 
  

    
When folks object to "they/them/their" on the basis of sounding
awkward when used in reference to a single person, it sometimes
helps to give examples of how we already do this all the time when
we don't know someone's gender (as mentioned up thread a bit).

"Who left their phone on the counter?"

"I don't know. I didn't see them."

Yells: "Anybody missing their phone? Someone left one on the
counter."

"Hopefully they heard that."
  

    <scribbled by seanan Tue 11 Feb 20 11:17>
  

    
Yes.

"I'm going to run to the corner store."

"I don't think they're open now." 

Sometimes, people choose the role of "contrarian" for its own sake.
It's useful to have neutral examples. Takes the huff out of their
puff. 

Thank you for that, Brian. 
  

    
Emma, would you be open to writing a bit about Haus of QUOTA, and
how you became involved with it? There's more to the stories than
can be found in simple descriptors or an easy google search.

You are, of course, welcome to say no. No harm, no foul, no worries.
  

    
[ My apologies for sticking with the WORDS aspect ]

> "I don't think they're open now." 

I wouldn't say 

"I don't think he's open now."
"I don't think she's open now."

unless everyone knew who ran the corner store.

"I don't think it's open now." 

is also correct ... though people do tend to anthropomorphize
stores, particularly if the are named after people (single or
plural).
  

    
Word away. I hear "they're" about stores every day, multiple times a
day. I don't think it's anthropomorphisation. It's the vernacular. 

"I think it's open" is correct. It is not the solitary, and may not
be the dominant, phrase.
  

    <hidden>
  

    
Post 97 is reaaly off subject, but explains my personal struggle
with the use of the plural prnoun for a singular person.
  

    
Wow I missed a lot hello pals 

<magdalen> I appreciate that The Well is a place where difficult
conversations can be held, where all topics are up for discussion,
and I appreciate your effort to let me know how my comment (#29) may
seem like I'm trying to shut down the conversation at hand. My
response to that interpretation is this: 
If someone has a question about the grammatical use of the word
'they,' about the implementation of it in language, about the
implications of its usage, about how to advocate for gender variant
people or how to begin to undo gendered conditioning in ones own
life, by all means, let's discuss. I made that note in #29 because,
as <tp> explained very well, I didn't want this to be a discussion
about the validity of the use of the word 'they' as a personal
pronoun. THAT is NOT up for discussion, and I won't apologize for
limiting the conversation in that way, because (with the exception
of myself and Seanan, who were invited to lead this discussion for
this very reason) this is a group of cisgendered people who do not
use they/them pronouns, and it's not very appealing to lead a
conversation in which your own pronouns and identity are being
debated in the same manner that one would debate the usage of the
oxford comma. It was an act of self-protection, not an act of
censorship. 

Like Seanan, I don't believe in safe spaces, but I believe in safER
spaces (as does Quota, which I'll get to next). We can't ensure
everyone's safety and comfort all the time, but what we can do is
try our damndest to be as inclusive, accessible, and accountable as
possible in order to achieve a space that may not be safe, but may
be safER. Limiting the discussion to comments that do not question
the validity of the use of the singular pronoun 'they' as a means of
expressing one's identity is an effort to make this space safer for
myself. 
  

    
[ slips! ]

No need to hide <97> !  (IMHO)

> "I didn't see who that was?"  

I'd say 

"I didn't see who it was."