Inkwell: Authors and Artists

    
Jane, naturally I love your questions about animals and whether we
only see apologetic behavior in pack/flock/herd animals.

It might seem that we'd only find it in the pack/flock/herd animals,
but it's useful to recall that many mammals (in particular) we may
think of as solitary still have group life as they are growing up
(a mother and her children at minimum, and possibly a father), and
the females who have children have group life as they're raising
those young. So a "solitary cat" may not have NEARLY ENOUGH TIME
FOR ITSELF and may need to reconcile differences with suitable
behavior.

I really love the experiment done by Frans de Waal and Denise
Johanowicz with 2 species of macaques. They had access to a
group of young rhesus monkeys -- grumpy, edgy, dominance-
obsessed -- and a group of young stump-tailed macaques --
calmer, gentler, and relatively harmony-obsessed. The stump-tails
were 3 times as likely as rhesus to reconcile after a fight. They
have many sets of reassuring, we're-friends gerstures to use
after a disagreement.

The scientists put both groups in a large new enclosure. The
rhesus went into a defensive mode, clinging to the ceiling,
uttering threats down at the stump-tails, who mooched around
exploring, not reacting to the threats.

Finally the two groups mingled, and there were squabbles. But
the stump-tails INSISTED on reconciling after disagreements,
and the rhesus had to put up with it. ('Okay, OKAY, friends.')
It helped that the stump-tails adored the long tails of the
rhesus and always wanted to groom them, and how can you hate
someone who thinks you're gorgeous? Eventually the two species
slept together in one big monkey pile and reconciled at a rate
led by the stump-tails.

THEN! The researchers removed the stump-tails to see what the
rhesus would do. It had been 5 months with the new cultural
style -- would the rhesus go back to their quarrelsome,
grdge-holding ways? No. They went on reconciling and making
peace with each other. Their culture had changed. They liked
being nicer and patching things up and they went right on
doing it.
  

    
What a wonderful story. Thank you for it.
  

    
agreed, wonderful story.

all i meant when i wrote i wasnt a sorrywatcher was that i wasnt a
professional of apologies --- thus deferring to my betters about the
art and science of apologies.
  

    
Sumac, thank you for that GREAT reply and bringing in the
study--well, it gives a person hope, doesn't it?
  

    
What a wonderful story. There's hope for us monkeys.
  

    
Paul, that's such a powerful, heart-wrenching story about your dog.
I'm so sorry.
  

    
So wonderful about the rhesus monkeys. And thank you for addressing
my earlier questions.
  

    
I wonder if you might want to talk about the process of
collaborating, first in sorrywatch and then in writing this book?
Collaborations are famously fraught, and only a very few seem to
make it through long-term. I could try to make this question
relevant by phrasing it as, "Did you two end up apologizing to one
another a lot along the way?" but really, I'm just curious about
anything you might want to say about the process of making a
two-person-authored book.
  

    
As mistress of ceremonies here (complete with whip for a small extra
charge) - I'm so appreciating the quality of the conversation from
everyone. Thank you.

And don't forget: along with other pending questions, I still want
dirt! What are the worst celeb apologies you've featured on
Sorrywatch? 
  

    
[ Reading eagerly ... but <coiro>: remember to remind un-well
readers how to email a question. Sorry for the interruption... 
ummmm ....  ]

But a well-question: if your "sorry" is rejected, do you try and try
again?
  

    
Repeated from post #<11>:

"If you're reading this conversation, and you're not a member of the
WELL, you won't be able to post directly. However if you have a
comment or question, send it to inkwell at well.com, and we'll post
it here."
  

    
This is a silly question, but are you BFFs with the Go Fug Yourself
ladies now? I never knew exactly what Dolce & Gabbana had said that
was so offensive, but the Heather and Jessica have never let it go
(for good reason!)
  

    
We talk about D&G in the book! I share the Fug Girls' fury (and
bafflement) that celebs -- particularly celebs of color -- are still
all-in on D&G; why have they gotten a pass on their racism and
terrible apologies?? 

Wait, this post can do double duty answering BOTH potterygirl's
question AND Angie's question about bad celebrity apologies! To
quote from the book for potterygirl about exactly what D&G have
said: 

***

Here is another example of not naming the offense: If you are, say,
an international fashion brand repeatedly accused of employing
racist imagery, insulting LGBTQ families, and calling celebrities
“ugly” and “cheap,” and you release a series of racist videos
showing a Chinese woman trying and failing to eat Italian food with
chopsticks (including one where someone off-screen sneers and leers
at her attempts with a cannoli and asks in Mandarin, “is it too huge
for you?”), your apology should consist of more than vague
sentiments delivered somberly in Italian to a camera. Vague
sentiments like “We have deeply reflected on how our words and deeds
have affected the Chinese people and China,” and “We feel sad.”
(Again: Irrelevant, your feelings.) Adding, “I hope you can forgive
us for the misunderstanding in our cultural understanding” and “We
attach great importance to this statement of apology” is meaningless
given your brand’s repeated behavior. Plus, “cultural
understanding”? It doesn’t take much cultural understanding to
refrain from calling China “the country of shit” on Instagram —
accompanied by 5 poop emojis! — or telling an Asian model who was
distressed by your ad campaign that she is “China Ignorant Dirty
Smelling Mafia” who eats dogs.

***

Angie, you asked about the worst celebrity apologies we covered on
SorryWatch, not in the book. SO, for that answer I'd say Lance
Armstrong, REPEATEDLY apologizing horribly. Warning: This is not my
best writing (and why you should get the BOOK, which is carefully
CRAFTED by us BOTH, as well as enjoying our SITE, where I sometimes
RANT AND HYPERVENTILATE IN FURY, tho <sumac> tends to be more
MEASURED): 

<https://sorrywatch.com/the-sorry-watching-of-lance-armstrong/>
<https://sorrywatch.com/lance-armstong-still-not-actually-sorry/>

(Sorry about the double image, an artefact of our misbegotten
redesign.) 

Another absolutely terrible athlete apology: Ray Rice. Just awful. 

<https://sorrywatch.com/baltimore-ravenss-ray-rice-offers-worst-sports-apology-
since-lance-armstrong/>
  

    
To answer the question about whether you have to try again if your
apology is rejected: The great 12th-century sage Maimonides says
you’re obligated to try three times to apologize to someone you've
wronged. After three attempts, “the person who refuses to grant
forgiveness is the one considered the sinner.” 

We're good with that. 

FYI, here are the other things should not do (in addition to
refusing to apologize and refusing to forgive a good apology) if you
want to earn a place in the World to Come, according to Maimo: 

1. Do not invent a disparaging nickname for a colleague (OK, turd
blossom)
2. Do not embarrass a colleague in public.
3. Do not gloat over a colleague’s shame.
4. Do not disgrace sages.
5. Do not disgrace teachers.
6. Do not degrade important holidays. 
7. Do not profane sacred things.
  

    
Collaboration takes effort, but I think it can be totally worth it.
For SorryWatch, most posts have a single author, and often go up
without our consulting each other. But other times, we're unsure
about something, and run it by the other person. I ran the recent
post about Marx apologizing to Engels past Marjorie, and she had
some helpful restructuring to suggest.

<https://sorrywatch.com/condolences-bro-but-at-least-you-dont-have-my-money-
problems/>

On the book, we mostly divided it up by chapters, and then edited each
other, sometimes heavily, mostly lightly. Maybe the most jointly-
written chapter is the one on teaching kids to apologize.

Marjorie and I have similar vices NO NOT VICES, TENDENCIES such as the
extensive use of parentheses and parentheticals, and the perceived to
to over-research things.

We've both collaborated before and I think we're pretty good at it. We
alternate being the one with energy/optimism, maybe?

When I collaborated with Jeff Masson on *When Elephants Weep*, I felt
like we arrived at a compromise voice, one that wasn't quite either of
ours. Less so for *Sorry, Sorry, Sorry*.
  

    
Why does someone become a sinner if they reject three apologies?
There can be things that are unforgivable. 
  

    
I just watched a film called In My Country. S L Jackson and Juliette
Binoche play reporters covering the Truth and Reconciliation
meetings. Her character is an Afrikaner from a family of complicit
wealthy farmers. He's an American activist. 

In one of the final scenes of the meetings one of the Afrikaner cops
is extremely remorseful over having killed a boy's parents while he
was forced to watch. He kneels in front of the child, weeping and
offering do anything to compensate for his crime, and begs him for
forgiveness. The 12 year old boy stares at him for a long minute,
and gives it by hugging him. 

It's a beautiful portrait of true contrition and genuine
forgiveness. There are lots of references to the Ubuntu concept that
hurting anyone hurts everyone, and that acts of forgiveness heal the
whole society. In the film some elder Black citizens speak to the
responsibilities of both the perpetrators and the victims to meet
the circumstances with an eye to the greater good. It seems to me
that Sorrywatch is talking about this in the vernacular of the US.
  

    
Thanks for that, yesway! relevant indeed.
  

    
I need to watch that film! Thank you for describing it.
  

    
And I have a question for anyone participating (except Marjorie, unless
she's been holding out on me): do you have experience in your own
lives with a person who simply cannot apologize?
  

    
This is a drive-by since I'm on deadline tonight, but boy howdy, is
it a live one.

Matt Gaetz "apologizes" for honoring an accused murderer in the
House.


<https://www.thedailybeast.com/matt-gaetz-honors-accused-murderer-at-committee-
hearing>

As you'll see, it wasn't *really* his fault.
  

    
wrt #45, there's this concept of 'the myth of your own innocence'.
that is, "who, MEEEE?" to me it feels like alas this is default mode
for the majority...
  

    
That's discussed in chapter 4 of the book.
  

    <scribbled by jet Thu 2 Mar 23 21:35>
  

    
i love her, but my wife does not apologize worth shit.