Inkwell: Authors and Artists

    
i would not want to hear from the guy who assaulted me in college.
is that hard to discern? 

as you say, loris, there's "admittedly" a difference between people
who didn't occur major injuries from someone and people who did. 

if you stole, robbed, raped, etc., maybe ask a smart friend if you
should reach out to the person you harmed. if possible, talk to a
friend you and the person you hurt have in common. if you really
want to apologize, and think you can do it in accordance with the
6.5 steps to a good apology, send a letter and do not ask for a
response. and definitely do not ask to be forgiven. 

a literary agent on a ghosting job i did for an unethical client (my
fault for taking the job when i had misgivings), who'd SWORN i'd
receive my final payment (spoiler alert: i did not, and had to hire
a lawyer, and wound up having to give him a third of that final
payment and spending a LOT of energy and stress on it) reached out a
few years later to sorta apologize. she did not take responsibility
for saying she'd be sure i got paid. (she gave a bit of a "ha-ha,
that client was difficult for me too!") she said she felt bad; she
wanted us to be on good terms. her email was not welcome to me,
because it would have had to be a GREAT apology and it wasn't even
an adequate one. i ignored it. 
  

    

as a woman in the music scene for many years, i have fielded more than my
share of generic 12-Step apology emails from men in bands. men doing the
8th step (gosh, i always thought it was the 4th step! guess not) in Sex
Addicts Anonymous. 

and mostly i laugh. i get the email and i think, really? you thought i
honestly remembered EVERY SINGLE GUY IN A BAND who hit on me while i was
playing music out, for like 15+ years? and these were not assaults. these
were just minor rock star guys flirting and stuff. 

anyway, those are some of the weirder sorta-apologies i've received. 

what do you think of thank-yous? reading this interview/topic here on The
Well, i'm reminded of positive encounters i've had, in the Facebook era
particularly. people from high school who dug me up and thanked me for
being nice or supportive or anti-bullying when they were having a hard
time. some of this i didn't even remember, but damn, it felt good to hear
that i'd been genuinely helpful. 

is there another side to this coin? are thanks directly related to or
correlated with sorrys?
  

    
The 2nd clause in step 9 - "except when to do so would injure them or
others" - I take as including whether it would be welcome or not.
If you are truly willing to make amends - step 8 - and are not just
using the step 9 clause to weasel out of it, then I think it's ok.
  

    
If a person responds to a 12-step (obviously) apology by saying, "No
need to apologize, really." is that reply dispiriting or freeing to
the person who sent the apology, I suddenly wonder. Having once done
just that. Or maybe the response is not what's important or central
at all? (I was quite startled the person even remembered the event,
or thought decades later that I'd have been hurt in a way that was
out of the ordinary run of young people sorting their lives out.) 
  

    
magdalen, smart question about thank-yous! 

the last chapter of our book looks at research on acts we see as
similar to apology in their relief-bringing, joy-making potential.
thank-you notes are at the top of the list. people LOVE LOVE LOVE
getting thank-you notes (and notes of appreciation). one series of
studies found that people who write them often worry that they're
not expressing themselves well, or that the note-receiver will think
they're silly or a suck-up...but the recipients were absolutely
DELIGHTED to receive the thank-yous and the good feelings were
really powerful. also, "just saying hi" and "thinking about you"
notes have huge psychological impacts. 
  

    
What's the trend in corporate apologies? Are they starting to grasp
that 

1. - a genuine apology in human words is actually a plus for the
business, and
2. - maybe the boss shouldn't say how tough his life has become as
part of the apology?
  

    
I think so -- because the media relations/PR people are starting to
notice how badly some apologies land.

But some bosses always think they can wing it and charm the masses
with aw shucks, folks, nobody feels worse about this than I DO.
  

    
There will also always be businesses, politicians, and celebrities
for whom "fuck you, snowflake" IS the brand, so they feel that not
apologizing IS good business. 
  

    
Today is the last day of the two week period formally designated for
this conversation. As always, the topic will remain open and
conversation can continue, and while the authors only committed to
two weeks, they are welcome to hang out here indefinitely. It's a
great conversation, and I'm sure there's more to be said.

Meanwhile we want to thank the authors, readers, and all who have
commented here so far!
  

    
Thank you Susan, Marjorie, Angie.
  

    
Thank you to all who participated!
  

    
THANK YOU for writing this always lively and deeply instructive
book, Susan and Marjorie! 
  

    
We're so glad you enjoyed it!
  

    
I wanted to follow up on the macaque study I mentioned in #26, just to
say that a somewhat similar culture changes was noted in a non-experimental
setting. Not precisely "in the wild,
setting. Not precisely "in the wild," but not in the lab.

Baboons in Kenya, living near a garbage dump, could only access the
tasty trash by fighting their way past other baboon troops and humans
who inexplicably did not wish any baboons at the dump. Because it was
such a battle to reach the discard bonanza, only soem of the fiercest
males managed it. And these brave souls contracted TB there and died.

The remaining baboons were females and less aggressive males, and they
established a nicer, kinder, troop culture, as evidenced by plenty of
mutual grooming. The study doesn't address reconcilation, but that
pretty much has to be part of it.

Interestingly, in baboon society, females stay put, and males
move out as they reach adulthood. So new males kept coming to this
troop of baboons and instad of shaking things up, they adopted its
relatively peaceful ways....

<https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullies-baboons-
retool-their-culture.html>
  

    
I love that study.

Evolution only seems to do that trick with a kill rate of 100%.
You'd think we'd be smart enough as a species to extrapolate and
mend our own ways with less than that, but it seems not.

I guess evolution also built those high-aggression baboons first.
Maybe we are also somehow en route to more mutual grooming, less
tyrannical brute force.
  

    
Robert Sapolsky has a gift for asking interesting scientific
questions and for presenting the answers in compelling ways.
  

    
He truly is a gift.

As has been this interview! Thanks to our two wonderful authors and
all the participants!
  

    
I want to thank <sumac> and <obizuth> for these amazing two weeks
and all the wonderful years of Sorrywatch, and this amazing
touchstone of a book.

I'm sorry the inkwell experience has to end. You have no idea how
stressful it is for ME not to be able to make a real 6.5 point
apology out of that statement.
  

    
Luckily, you need not apologize, Paul! 

Thank you all for this great conversation. (Special thanks to Jon
for inviting us and Angie for directing the chat as she does so
brilliantly!)