Inkwell: Authors and Artists

    
<97>
>what people really want from someone who's wronged them is for
 that person to hurt. to suffer or sacrifice. to lose something. that turned
 out to be the real motivation behind most people's willingness to forgive
 and/or move on. if they see the other person suffering a while, then they
 may be satisfied. did you guys run into that during your research on the
 SorryWatch book?

I don't think we did. But in most apologies, the person apologizing does
suffer a little, in accpeting and speaking about their own imperfection,
in humbling themselves a bit. I guess you could project a continuum of
remorse & humiliation...
  

    
i haven't seen that study either. 

we did look at studies about medical apologies. many found that
patients and families want an apology that takes ownership and
acknowledges their suffering. they want to know what steps the
doctor or hospital is taking to ensure the problem they or their
family member experienced doesn't recur. when they get a shitty "we
regret" apology that doesn't take responsibility or shed any light,
they get vindictive. THAT'S when they want to cause suffering for
the doctor or hospital. THAT'S when they want a big payout. doctors
are often advised not to take responsibility when they apologize,
but doing that is precisely what makes folks sue and what makes
juries offer bigger payouts (than when medical professionals offer
GOOD apologies. 

This Harvard Hospital System report about how to respond to "adverse
events" is written in plainspoken language and is actually a good
read: 
<http://www.macoalition.org/documents/respondingToAdverseEvents.pdf>
  

    
>>many found that patients and families want an apology that takes
ownership and acknowledges their suffering.

This makes so much sense to me. A human wants to deal with other
humans. Companies saving face remain companies, no matter how much
pseudo-compassionate words they try to attach to their interactions
("we sympathize with all our patients, but ... ").

I just searched for info on something I'd swear was real, but I'm
only finding the opposite. I'd've laid money that back in the late
80s/early 90s, California law was changed so that apologizing to the
other driver after a car crash could no longer be considered
admission of fault. But no, it's still a thing: get out of your car
and express empathy, sympathy, or contrition with "I'm sorry", and
it can still bite you in the ass in court or in insurance
negotiations.

Anyway! One thing we haven't hit on yet: kids and apologies. How do
you raise a kid who grasps how it's done? How much can they
comprehend when they're wee things - say, kindergarten, first grade?
What's fair to expect from them? And - a big one - does the parent
need to step into the act with the other parent, if it's a
kid-on-kid situation?
  

    
About a decade ago, I said "I'm sorry" to a cyclist who I forced to
jam on his brakes so hard he went over the handlebars.  I said it
knowing i might be 'admitting fault' at a time when witnesses were
congregating and promising to testify to what I'd done.

The apology ended it. 
  

    
We just taped an interview today that was strongly focused on kid
apologies, for an audience apparently loaded with teachers and
parents of young kids.

I'm going to let Marjorie speak to the question of very little kids
apologizing because she FEELS STRONGLY about it. (Hint: yes, even
the little ones.)

>And - a big one - does the parent
 need to step into the act with the other parent, if it's a
 kid-on-kid situation?

That's tricky, of course, because many parents do not wnat SOMEONE
ELSE telling their kid to apologize. But you can tell a kid "Say
you're sorry to Jordan for hitting them. MAYBE JORDAN WILL APOLOGIZE
TO YOU FOR CALLING YOU A DIAPER BABY, because I'm sure Jordan knows
better than to call people names, but no matter what, you nned to
apologize for hitting." Meanwhile wagging your eyebrows at Jordan's
parent or parents.

T%his is where it's useful to remember that apologies often need to
be separate conversations from YOU STARTED IT or HAVE YOU THOUGHT
ABOUT SEEKING THERAPY or I HAD A HELL OF A DAY.
  

    
>I said "I'm sorry" to a cyclist who I forced to
 jam on his brakes so hard he went over the handlebars.  I said it
 knowing i might be 'admitting fault' at a time when witnesses were
 congregating and promising to testify to what I'd done.

 The apology ended it.


Yes, that's just how it should be done.
  

    
(sumac slipped in)

I happened to watch the film WOMEN TALKING last night--not knowing
the least bit what it was about. And it has at its heart a pivotal
moment involving a transformative apology.

Today I spotted this in the NY Times (probably paywalled for
non-subscribers, I don't know):

<https://www.nytimes.com/video/movies/100000008795294/women-talking-scene.html>

In the voiceover, the director talks about the process by which the
apology was arrived at--  informed, she says, by Harriet Lerner's
work on apology, by a member of the crew who had his own history
with these things, and by the actors finding things during
rehearsals.

I'm sorry the full scene isn't shown in the clip. (I think the
movie's available free via Amazon Prime, for those who have that,
for another couple days.)
  

    
and your post above, sumac, opened the door to something I've been
wanting to ask and finally will-- what's with Jordan, who is
something of a whipping post throughout the book? Was one of you
bullied by someone named Jordan when you were a kid?
  

    
Poor Jordan. Neither of us has, to my knowledge, been wronged by a
Jordan. We wanted a name that could be female or male.

While it is true that the book's Jordan is often at fault, sometimes
others are at fault with regard to Jordan, so it's not completely
slanted against Jordan.
  

    
>In the voiceover, the director talks about the process by which the
 apology was arrived at--  informed, she says, by Harriet Lerner's
 work on apology, by a member of the crew who had his own history
 with these things, and by the actors finding things during
 rehearsals.

Oh! I saw the film, and thought it was marvelous, but I didn't see
that "Anatomy of a Scene" thing. How great that Sarah Polley cites
Harriet Lerner. Lerner has been super helpful to us.
  

    
One thing I really appreciate in the book is how generously you cite
the work of others in the same area.

And right, in the above example Jordan was wronged, but then in the
Bad Apology it's clear Jordan also behaved Badly (even if that
doesn't belong in the apology).

I noticed Jordan's pronouns changing--he, she, they...  Jordan is
clearly (with apologies to anyone outside the Well who might be
reading this insider reference) ... Puffball.
  

    
Now, maybe you noticed what I did just there... "with apologies"

If I understand correctly, that maybe isn't really an apology at
all, it is what the book tells me linguists call a "phatic"
expression. ("Just being polite here.") Have I got that right? 

And I love learning that particular bit of rhetoric-description. I
don't think I knew the term before. Now I'm curious about the
relationship between "phatic" and "emphatic."
  

    
Jordan is Puffball!!
  

    


thanks for the pseud!
  

    
How did you come to write this book, after five years of Sorrywatch?
Did a publisher make the suggestion, or did was it your idea? How's
your experience been with Simon and Schuster?
  

    
(Watch me ignite fireworks) Is it okay to ask your kids to kiss and
make up?
  

    
<FIREWORKS BOOM!>

nobody should have to kiss and make up, or hug, or shake. everyone
deserves bodily autonomy. everyone should respect the notion of
CONSENT. (we love the videos of kids entering a classroom and
getting to choose the greeting they want from the teacher - a hug, a
high-five, a dap, a wave.) the notion of CONSENT can also be worked
into an insistence on apology tho -- with little kids, lack of
consent is frequently at the heart of the offense: a kid bites,
hits, grabs, pushes. little kids don't always understand that
they've caused harm, so saying "look at the bite marks you left on
Jordan's arm. how do you think you'd feel if Jordan bit YOU?" for
very young kids, as Susan said, you can model or speak the apology
(and hint for it to be reciprocated if both parties are at fault) .

we started thinking about doing a book when we went deeper and
deeper into research and kept finding the topic rich and non-boring.
and in 2016, when we got a president who resolutely refused to
apologize, we started thinking harder about notions like "real men
don't apologize" and the idea that apologies are a sign of weakness.
we wanted to write an upbeat,  positive book that encouraged
bridge-building. we wanted to point out that apologies are actually
profoundly courageous acts: you have to overcome your own brain's
determination to make you the hero in your story. you have to
acknowledge the cognitive dissonance of "I did a bad thing, even tho
I see myself as a good person" and address that bad thing you did,
voluntarily put yourself in a one-down position. I don't think we
would have chosen the subtitle "The Case for Good Apologies" (tho
actually, our agent came up with it!) without having had a president
who didn't believe in apologizing. but we didn't want to write a
book that was purely reactive. having him in office really helped us
clarify what we wanted the book, as distinct from the site, to do
and say.
  

    
What a rightful spur and response you describe there...
  

    
Sorry sorry sorry that I'm only just jumping in here! Reading your
book made me realize I should apologize for something that happened
a very long time ago - so long ago, in fact, that the person I
should apologize to has probably forgotten about it. In any event,
our friendship hasn't suffered from my not apologizing. So I can't
help wondering if bringing up the thing I want to apologize for
would do more harm than good. What does the science say?
  

    
<119> I'm not sure we have actual science on that one.

A couple of times I've apologized for something the other person had
forgotten, and it didn't do any harm.

Someone recently apologized to me for their behavior nearly 50
years ago. On the one hand I appreciated it. The person had taken
a long time (and psychology has advanced) to understand their
personal deficits in empathy, but had done so. They had also formed
relationships with animals that allowed them to see why I had been
so upset at the time (when my dog was stolen).

On the other hand, I did not enjoy thinking about that episode again,
and so didn't enjoy receiving the apology.

The good news: my friend is a better person than he used to be, and
understands how selfish their behavior was at the time. The bad news:
those events happened.

It's sometimes the case that people apologize for long-ago behavior
as part of the amends step in a 12-step program. That may or may not
be welcome to the person they're apologizing to. Sometimes, even if
the apology wouold be beneficial for the person apologizing, they
need to accept that they don't have the right to trouble further the
person they wish they could apologize to.

So the first question I'd ask is whether an apology is likely to
pain the person. If not, where would the harm lie? If the other
person has forgotten the episode, might your apology strengthen
your relationship, because of your showing that you want to be on
a good footing with them? Or would it only benefit you?

It's unfortunate that you can't know if they've fogotten.
  

    
On another note: JORDAN IS PUFFBALL!
  

    
<112>
>Now I'm curious about the
 relationship between "phatic" and "emphatic."

Jane, I would have assumed they were closely related words, but I see
by Merriam-Webster that "phatic" comes from "the Greek *phatos*, a
form ot the verb *phanai*, meaning 'to speak.'"

Whereas "emphatic" seems to come (via French & Latin) the Greek word
*emphatikos* from *empha* or *emphainen*, which means "to exhibit,
display, indicate" so even though in 5th grade I aced the test on
Greek and Latin roots and actually won a small book on the subject
(it must be around here SOMEWHERE), no one should come to me for
pronouncements on that subject.
  

    
i took high school latin and loved it! 

semper ubi sub ubi! 

i received an apology maybe five years ago from a college classmate
(whom i'd also gone to elementary, middle school, and high school
with) who threw a notebook at me freshman year in a fit of pique.
he'd asked to borrow my notes the night before a test, and i was
annoyed, and he was desperate and demanding, and i do not recall how
it happened, but he threw the notebook at me and the spiral binding
cut my lip. we weren't really friends after that (we weren't really
friends before, however -- just longtime classmates) and i honestly
forgot all about it. i'd see him in various facebook groups and was
cordial. after a long time he sent a message via messenger saying he
often thought about throwing that notebook at me and he was really
sorry. he'd had a difficult transition to college (which i knew) and
was unprepared for the workload and was really angry that i didn't
want to give him my notes, even though he knew i probably needed
them since it was the night before the test. i thanked him for the
apology and told him i forgave him. i also told him i barely
remembered the incident (truth! but shocking to him, since for him
it was indelible) and he should be at ease. i felt good being able
to tell him he was absolved and feeling his relief even thru the
computer screen. 

a message to a social media account (not a text to a phone number),
an email, or a letter is a good way to apologize when you're not
sure how it will be received. and never, ever apologize to someone
when they can't get away from you if there's even the slightest
chance you won't be forgiven. not in a car, in a restaurant when you
see them when they're eating, in their cubicle. be sure they feel
safe and able to walk away from you even mid-apology.
  

    
That's a great deal of common sense. 

I have to say - having spent time in 12-step myself, it never
occurred to me that the person on the receiving end might be annoyed
or in any way discomfited by it. Oh, I guess I imagined people
squirming a bit. But until I read the book, the concept of it being
actively annoying never crossed my mind.

For those unfamiliar, the Ninth Step is part of a process of
cleaning up your life, to go forward with a clear conscience and a
kit of tools to help you stay clean (of drugs or booze or food or
toxic relationships, whatever).

The 9th grows out of the 8th. Together they read:

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to
make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when
to do so would injure them or others.

Sumac, obi - would you rewrite that in any way?
  

    
i think the question of 'would this apology be welcome?" is tricky.
i have friends NOTW who have been on the receiving end of those
12-step generated apologies, and their response was usually
'whatever/eyeroll/PUHleeze/have a nice life'. admittedly these were
not ppl who had had major relationships or incurred major injuries
from the 12-steppers.

but knowing if an apology would be welcome, not so easy to discern.