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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #26 of 169: Alex Davie (icenine) Thu 9 May 24 03:28
permalink #26 of 169: Alex Davie (icenine) Thu 9 May 24 03:28
Not a damned thing, spoken as one WHO has never seen even one episode of Dr. Who..am following along though, fascinated by yalls insights and windows on the world of Dr. Who
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #27 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Thu 9 May 24 06:24
permalink #27 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Thu 9 May 24 06:24
You're a living Whotopia, <draml>! I wish Ian Marter had stayed around for a little longer - The Fourth Doctor, Sarah Jane Smith and Harry Sullivan are my favourite TARDIS trifecta.
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #28 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Thu 9 May 24 07:21
permalink #28 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Thu 9 May 24 07:21
I have the benefit of greater age at least, but that's about it, John! Alex - I'm interested in what you did notic about Who in the past, what's appealed and maybe what's out you off watching? > Frazer Hines coming in as Scottish highlander Jamie I snuck in a little Easter Egg there. The character (and the actor playing him) was genuinely the direct inspiration for the main character Jamie Fraser in the equally timely-wimey book and TV series Outlander.
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #29 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Fri 10 May 24 01:00
permalink #29 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Fri 10 May 24 01:00
The couple of questions about police phone boxes and companions that came up which might have been 'obvious' to longtime fans but absolutely needed digging into for any newcomers to the show made me realise there is one more elephant in the room that we really do have to cover. We've actually implicitly taken it for granted already with our mentions of "the First Doctor" and "when Tom Baker was Doctor" etc. Yes, it's time to talk about regeneration. On the face of it just a way of recasting the title role, it's perhaps more than anything else the unique concept that's given the show its unprecedented longevity. It wasn't part of the show's original format in that 1963 pilot, although the Doctor was clearly presented as an alien and therefore could be presumed to have a few surprising non-human traits, like having two hearts. It came up in 1966 when they needed to replace the lead actor (somewhat against his will, it must be said). William Hartnell had been the star from the start and played the part as an elderly, gruff Edwardian eccentric. Hartnell had been a big name in his day, appearing in many British crime films of the 30s and 40s such as "Brighton Rock" and then as a harsh training officer in long-running TV show "The Army Game" in the 50s. He was delighted to get the part of the Doctor because it was finally something he could sit down and watch with his young granddaughter. But by 1966 his health was failing. He was having difficulty with his lines and was increasingly difficult to work with on set, so the producers decided they needed someone else. They could have looked around for someone similar to Hartnell to simply recast the part without much fuss (like Peter Cushing in the contemporary Dr Who movies), but instead they wanted to re-energise the show with someone totally different. They gave the part to the much younger Patrick Troughton who played the part as a disorganised, dishevelled 'cosmic hobo' sporting a Beatles' mop top. There wasn't much of an explanation for it in the show but it was implied that the old Doctor had simply worn himself out and this process of renewal was a natural part of his people's physiology - an elixir of eternal life - and that Troughton was in effect a young version of Hartnell. Give him a few hundred years and he would grow into himself again. So if you ask "When was the first regeneration in Doctor Who?" then the answer is October 29 1966, when that episode was broadcast. But it was not regeneration as we knew it and it wasn't known by that name. Let's read on...
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #30 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Fri 10 May 24 01:53
permalink #30 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Fri 10 May 24 01:53
Inevitably there came a point when Troughton - a popular and in-demand character actor - got bored and wanted to move on to new challenges, so at the end of 1969 there was another vacancy at the top. The BBC very nearly cancelled the show at this point because of dwindling ratings but they decided to give it one more throw of the dice, with a new lead and a revamped format which kept the Doctor on Earth (for budget reasons) and made the stories more grown-up and action-orientated with guns, helicopters and car chases. It was, unexpectedly, a huge success. Doctor Who was suddenly part of the national zeitgeist again. They explained the new casting by having the Doctor's people, the Time Lords, catch up with him and place him into exile on Earth for breaching their prime directive of interfering in other worlds. As part of the sentence they put him into 'witness protection' by forcing him to change his appearance, and Troughton became the suave and debonair Jon Pertwee (think a serious Austin Powers). But again there was no sense of this being anything other than a one-off disguise forced upon him by the Time Lords. It's not like the show was going to keep running long enough for this to happen again. Then the show reached its 10th anniversary and someone suggested that they do a reunion story with all three Doctors in it (although Hartnell was so poorly by this point he only appeared in brief filmed inserts), creatively titled "The Three Doctors". But this changed everything: before the impression had been that the Doctor was the same man, just with a rejuvenating trip to a health spa, or some plastic surgery to conceal his appearance. Now we saw the three distinct characters, in the same place and physically interacting with each other, and it changed how viewers perceived them. And that meant when Pertwee moved on they needed a whole different approach to recasting. And this is where regeneration comes in. The producer of the show at the time was Barry Letts who was deeply passionate about Buddism, especially the teaching of how one had to strive to overcome one's flaws (like arrogance and hubris) and accept one's mortality to achieve catharsis and become a new person. Letts took that last part literally: the Doctor had to confront his mistakes and failings to survive a lethal burst of radiation and achieve regeneration to become Tom Baker. That's been the template for regeneration ever since - it's practically followed step-by-step in the build-up to David Tennant's departure from the role in 2010. From now on, it became a Time Lord emergency measure when faced with imminent death: from poisoning, or Dalek death ray, being gunned down by hoodlems in a San Francisco back alley on the eve of the Millennium, or bumping his head really hard on the Tardis console. So for me, if you ask "when did the first regeneration as we know it today happen in Doctor Who?" it would be June 8 1974. It's a hill I'm prepared to die on - unless someone has a better idea they want to propose? Believe it or not this is a *short* version of an argument I first presented 10 years ago, which you can still find online if you're really unfortunate! <https://takingtheshortview.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/doctor-who-the-regeneratio n-game/>
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #31 of 169: Alex Davie (icenine) Fri 10 May 24 06:25
permalink #31 of 169: Alex Davie (icenine) Fri 10 May 24 06:25
Well done, Andrew..I grokked the whole thang about the early Drs.. Andrew, I just never ran across (in my stumbling way) an episode of Dr. Who but now I am forewarned and forearmed so I am primed for it if ever do and thank you both..
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #32 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Fri 10 May 24 07:00
permalink #32 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Fri 10 May 24 07:00
I do hope we've piqued your interest to take a peak at the new series, so to speak, and maybe seek out some of the older ones while you're at it! I never quite know what "fandom" means in modern times, but for me being a fan of Who or anything else for that matter is wanting to pass on the love, excitement and enthusiasm you have for something, and hopefully make us all fellow travellers in the adventure.
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #33 of 169: Alex Davie (icenine) Fri 10 May 24 07:53
permalink #33 of 169: Alex Davie (icenine) Fri 10 May 24 07:53
Yass, Andrew!
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #34 of 169: Enzyme (jonl) Fri 10 May 24 08:29
permalink #34 of 169: Enzyme (jonl) Fri 10 May 24 08:29
So great to have that history - I vaguely understood the "Time Lord" and regeneration concepts, but now it's clear!
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #35 of 169: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Fri 10 May 24 10:34
permalink #35 of 169: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Fri 10 May 24 10:34
A bit off topic, but: John, what work did you do with Christopher Lee at BBC Radio 4?
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #36 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Fri 10 May 24 12:02
permalink #36 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Fri 10 May 24 12:02
Hello, <emilyg>! I worked as a studio assistant for a director friend and Sir Christopher Lee, or Chris as he insisted we all called him, was the star! The BBC Radio 4 drama was The Gemini Apes. I got to heckle Chris, which was one of the most surreal experiences of my life. I should say, he was a gentleman and took time to talk to everyone.
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #37 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Fri 10 May 24 13:03
permalink #37 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Fri 10 May 24 13:03
I'm so pleased you said that, every story I've ever heard about Fir Chris agrees that he was a true gentleman and a consummate professional. I think it would break my heart if that were ever not to be true. I'm sure you made a fine heckler, John!
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #38 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Fri 10 May 24 15:14
permalink #38 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Fri 10 May 24 15:14
I heckled Dracula and survived to tell the tale! But seriously, Chris was absolutely amazing. What a privilege it was to work with him.
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #39 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Fri 10 May 24 23:41
permalink #39 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Fri 10 May 24 23:41
I'm really pleased that introducing the show with a look back at how it started and evolved has been interesting and entertaining and not proved too self-indulgent. But perhaps it's the right time for a change in direction... Having spent the first few days looking back at the past, it's time to do a 180 degree pivot and turn to the future with a look at the first new episodes of the 2024 season. And for the possibly the first time in the history of Inkwell it means we have to consider the minefield that is ... Spoilers! We're going to be talking about the new episodes here but we'll endeavour to keep it high level and not give deep details, or if we do then to be sure to give plenty of spoiler space and warnings and even hide particularly spoilery spoilers (where the post doesn't appear unless you deliberately click on it). We do have full spoiler discussions in the members-only <whovians.> conference and you're welcome to join us there if you wish. To take part, you can either get an introductory full membership at <https://www.well.com/join/> or drop a line to inkwell[@well.com] or to myself draml[@well.com] to see if we have any free three-month gift subscriptions available. Hope to see you there and that you enjoy the episodes, and have plenty to talk about over the weekend.
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #40 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Sat 11 May 24 02:20
permalink #40 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Sat 11 May 24 02:20
The Disney era has arrived with a bedazzling flourish!
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #41 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Sat 11 May 24 10:13
permalink #41 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Sat 11 May 24 10:13
I see John has already fallen under the spell! I've just finished watching the first episode, "Space Babies". And there are babies in it. Space babies. In prams. Can't say they didn't warn you. It's been a long time since we saw Russell T Davies write a Doctor Who script. He's sone a lot of serious, adult evening dramas since then such as "Years and Years" and the award-winning "It's a Sin". Which incidentally if you haven't seen the latter is a masterpiece about the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s as seen in the UK. It stars Olly Alexander, who is a pop star who is also an actor, and tonight is coincidentally singing the UK's entry in the Eurovision Song Contest. Connections everywhere. But all this drama means that RTD hasn't had much outlet for his silly, childish side - the side that brought us farting Slitheen in the first series of the NuWho reboot in 2005 with Christopher Eccleston. This episode has a lot of that feeling to it: some really silly bits for children, including one of the regulars getting 'gunked' by a gloopy load of slime and then realising what it actually consists of. And yet at the same time there are genuinely terrifying bits, and other parts that convey some really powerful messages (some might say it goes a bit too far into woke correctness, and it's true that this is where RTD's heart lies, but it's sincere and well throughout out and I admire him for doing what he does. Including the most important message that we are all unique, all irreplaceable, and all just as important. I think that's worth raising a glass of Ribena to. Also: Ncuti Gatwa is the most extraordinary physical presence. He bounces so much (even when just standing) that he must be able to supply the entire national power grid. Looking forward to seeing what everyone else thought of it. In the UK it's being broadcast on BBC One in about five minutes form the time of posting. Don't worry about not knowing the show and worrying about getting into it, the first 5-10 minutes are a tailor made primer to the past of the show to bring you up to speed with teverything you need to know (and some extra bits that will grab the attention of even long time fans). (But please do avoid specific spoilers unless clearly flagged, or else join us in the Space Babies topic in the <whovians.> conference where no such restrictions apply.)
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #42 of 169: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Sat 11 May 24 14:39
permalink #42 of 169: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Sat 11 May 24 14:39
Gatwa clearly was told to bring joy to the role, and he's nailing it! While I didn't find the space babies plot very strong, the scary was very scary - almost "hide behind the couch" scary, as that's called in the Whoniverse. The gross parts hopefully made children around the world laugh. With the messaging - maybe it comes across heavy handed for some, but it's quintessential Doctor Who, right? "The triumph of innocence and romance over brute force and cynicism," tm Craig Ferguson.
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #43 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Sat 11 May 24 15:38
permalink #43 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Sat 11 May 24 15:38
Space Babies could almost been viewed as a pastiche of Red Dwarf does Alien!
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #44 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Sat 11 May 24 15:54
permalink #44 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Sat 11 May 24 15:54
I was going to make a similar point: the episode is bound to be remembered for the cutesy saccharine scenes with the Space Babies but the sequences with the monster down below were really dark, Alien-levels of horror. The look and feel of the monster was clearly influenced by the xenomorph and the sequence in the air lock was straight out of the original movie. It's a real contrast of tone in the show between the upstairs and downstairs scenes. I did get constant fun out of listening to what Jocelyn was actually saying and the filtered version others heard as they cut back and forth.
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #45 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Sun 12 May 24 02:16
permalink #45 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Sun 12 May 24 02:16
So far, our discussion of the new series has been limited to the first episode, Space Babies. But a second (The Devil's Chord) dropped at the same time. I've watched it but to be honest I'm reticent to voice an opinion on it. It's so different from Space Babies that I got a touch of whiplash and found it hard to keep up after a busy day, and need to watch it again when I have more time. I'm not a fan of back-to-back episodes or boxset bingeing in general. I think it detracts from one's appreciation of a show as a whole. Is that just me, or does anyone else feel the same? Did anyone watch both stories in one sitting without a second thought?
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #46 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Sun 12 May 24 04:06
permalink #46 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Sun 12 May 24 04:06
I watched both back-to-back on BBC iPlayer as Space Babies was fun, but relatively undemanding viewing! I loved the callback in The Devil's Chord to Pyramids of Mars (one of my all-time favourite serials) when the Fourth Doctor took Sarah Jane Smith to a desolated future 1980 should Sutekh escape...
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #47 of 169: Okay, we're drifting... just one more point (jonl) Sun 12 May 24 06:31
permalink #47 of 169: Okay, we're drifting... just one more point (jonl) Sun 12 May 24 06:31
I watched 'em back to back. "Space Babies": snot bad! Especially cool to see Golda Rosheuvel, who was so great in "Bridgerton." Very impressed with the handling of the babies - I assume via CGI. I thought "The Devil's Chord" was a blast! I suspect some thought Jinkx Monsoon's performance as Maestro was over the top, but I saw it as operatic, fitting for the context.
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #48 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Sun 12 May 24 06:56
permalink #48 of 169: John Hood (johnhood) Sun 12 May 24 06:56
I've consolidated my initial impressions on the double bill premiere for anyone interested! <https://johnhood.substack.com/p/doctor-doctor>
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #49 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Sun 12 May 24 07:15
permalink #49 of 169: Andrew Lewin (draml) Sun 12 May 24 07:15
> "Space Babies": snot bad! Hah. I see what you did there! I have seen both episodes, but there was such a handbrake turn between them that I don't think I picked up on everything in "The Devil's Chord" and plan to watch it again tonight. Probably both of them, actually. When we started this little Whovian adventure on The WELL there was a discussion about what the tone of the show is. I think anyone watching these first two episodes back to back will be convinced there is no such thing as tone, other than "Anything Goes". The first episode was ful of fun, silly, childish hijinks while the second was actually high concept and chilling in its way, and also warm and nostalgic and a total blast. And it had a song and dance finale, a first for the show. Totally different approaches but I loved them both. Only Russell T Davies could have come up with the idea of it, let alone pulled it off. I thought Jinkx Monsoon's performance as Maestro was brilliant, BTW.
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John Hood and Andrew Lewin: Finding Dr. Who
permalink #50 of 169: Kathy L. Dalton (kd) Sun 12 May 24 14:47
permalink #50 of 169: Kathy L. Dalton (kd) Sun 12 May 24 14:47
IJWTS that in the look back to the older series no one mentioned K9. Especially in response to the Q: were all the companions young women? Would you skip R2D@ and C3PO in discussing Star Wars?
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