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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #26 of 95: Erin Bow (erinbow) Tue 27 Aug 24 21:25
permalink #26 of 95: Erin Bow (erinbow) Tue 27 Aug 24 21:25
>I don't have a copy : the blurb only covers the first half of the book-and-half-a-book. I've misled you, I think. It's only one book, and it was never anything else. It just used to be more choppy and disjointed. At the beginning of the book, Simon and his family move to the National Quiet Zone, where no one can have internet or cell phones or radio or TV, because there's a giant radio telescope nearby, where scientists are scanning the skies for signals from aliens. Since Simon is famous for the worst thing that ever happened to him, he's thrilled to be in a town where no one can google him, and he starts spinning stories. He meets Agate, who wants to give the scientists what they are looking for. When things start to come apart -- well, let's just say that when Simon decides to really change the narrative, he goes big.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #27 of 95: Seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 03:06
permalink #27 of 95: Seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 03:06
<scribbled by seanan Wed 28 Aug 24 03:10>
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #28 of 95: seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 03:27
permalink #28 of 95: seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 03:27
>23 Ive lived in that kind of question, Alan. The difference is between having one smooth whole book and two disconnected parts of a book stuck together like a badly healed bone. Not Part I: Tragedy and Trouble and Part II: The Road to Restoration, which can be a complete journey, but two halves that read, energetically and otherwise, as if they were separate books that had been jammed in the same binding. The solution may require rewriting, shuffling, finding bridges and connections, drastically changing one or both parts of the book, or any of as many other options as can inhabit writers minds. In my lifelong experience (I started reading, proofreading, and inadvertently sliding into editing when I was _very_ young younger than Ive been telling people I was, and that was young.), its normal. Some books flow out in a strange, swift ten-day rush of words, only to sit like stodge, demanding removal from stones in their streams. Many require unpicking or This bit doesnt go with that, Hang on. The passage here defies that passage there, How did we get from A to (going to try a Greek letter here, and learn what the WELL makes of it) λ?, That doesnt read like this character. In the best of books, its often a series of How do we get these people off this island? Its easy, natural, and understandable to become prickly about ones work. Maybe thats half of the communion (Its different from collaboration.) process; the editor/doula/readers ego and creative flavors have to go away, and the writer has to be open to seeing their world and people in altered ways. This, too, requires finding a right partner for the journey. A wrong person is going to make process harder and product more wrenched out of its joints. Erin says, I've known people who could find the raw spots but just made them more raw when they poked at them. In the multiverse of readers, there are more of those than of the other kinds, and that, I think, has to do with ego, a particular flavour of imagination that lets one move completely into the skins of another persons imagination instead of ones own (to the point where one lives with them, as well as with ones inner and outer beings), hearing with all (known and unknown) senses, and a delicate attunement to how things have to be communicated in any instant in time. The degrees to which one has any of them varies, because were all mortal and changeable. That, too, requires trust and presence (in all worlds) on both sides. All of those elements, Id argue, are in an outstanding writer, as well. Erin has them, certainly, in abundance. I wonder, often, about the connection between being a good reader, a good observer, and a good writer. Anything for you in that, Erin?
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #29 of 95: seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 03:52
permalink #29 of 95: seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 03:52
>She wonders if you had been pressured at all to write it for young adults instead of for children, given the subject matter, and if so how you dealt with that to make it the children's book that it really is. >That may be in part due to how the book came to be: I wrote it out and did several rounds of revision before I sold it SIMON was solidly middle-grade from its inception. Before there was a Simon to live through SIMON, the book was middle-grade. There was a funeral home. There were two, I think then lamas, balking at walking towards an altar, and Erin being very droll and witty about the scene. There was groping towards the form the book would take (Form and fragility weave in with the communion/collaboration/raw raw is spot-on revising/revamping theme.), the world becoming, but it was always funny, there were always balky beasts in incense-scented air, there was always a funeral director, and it was always middle-grade. None of this is to discount or dismiss the labor Erin put into solidifying the work, but rather to acknowledge the ISness of some works, the way parts of a book just appear in ones head, as if they were irrevocable, known, and solid things. The rest is open and variable but, looking across books by Erin and others, and in my experience, some portions simply ARE. Given that the mountain is the book, one cannot move it. More simply, there are ways in which a book comes to one. Some portions of those ways brook neither argument nor change. They are the novels skeleton, nerves, and neurones. You can perform surgery on the dragon, but it is always going to be a dragon. Cut off a wing; its a dragon shorn of a wing. Paint it blue; its a blue dragon. Have it breathe rainbows rather than fire; its a rainbow-breathing dragon. The dragon isnt going away. Anything to reshape, reframe, reflect, rethink, revise, or add in or to that, Erin?
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #30 of 95: seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 03:54
permalink #30 of 95: seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 03:54
If not (or either way, as this is now here), then the not-dragon aspects leads usefully to the next subject. Erin, you said, My experience is I dont really have one idea for a book until I have two ideas for a book. May I ask you to use your own words as a springboard?
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #31 of 95: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 28 Aug 24 07:50
permalink #31 of 95: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 28 Aug 24 07:50
Thanks for the illuminating answers.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #32 of 95: seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 08:11
permalink #32 of 95: seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 08:11
Thank you for opening the subject.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #33 of 95: Erin Bow (erinbow) Wed 28 Aug 24 11:42
permalink #33 of 95: Erin Bow (erinbow) Wed 28 Aug 24 11:42
>I so respected the very slow reveal of the nature of Simon's trauma and actually only wish it hadn't been in the book jacket copy which was quoted above, so the reader could discover it at the same time that Simon's friends did. SAME. I am torn about having the "what happened to Simon" in the flap copy, for just those reasons. Part of me said "hey, I worked hard on that reveal." Artistically, I think not having the spoiler in the flap copy would be better. The book is structured as a spiral -- at about the one-third mark, readers work out what happened to Simon. At about the two-thirds mark the other characters do too. At the end, Simon realizes -- finally -- that the is not defined by the worst thing that ever happened to him. The flap copy cuts out the first turn of the spiral. But art isn't the only consideration. I didn't want this book to blindside young readers who might have actually survived a school shooting themselves. (There are more of them than you think -- a few years back the Washington Post estimated 300,000 survivors since Columbine.) The phrase "trigger warning" gets tossed around a lot, even mocked and diminished. We need to think of it more like we think of peanut allergies. It's not "this book is generically upsetting and might upset you" -- it's "this topic specifically might be traumatic for you specifically right now." In the end, the folks at Disney and I both sided with putting the spoiler in the flap copy so that some kids could avoid it and others could seek it out. That happens too. I've talked to a couple of families who read the book together as part of their recovery from a brush with a school shooting. And I spent some time with a class of sixth graders who -- heartbreakingly -- told me it was okay because the shooting they survived was "not a big one."
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #34 of 95: Erin Bow (erinbow) Wed 28 Aug 24 12:21
permalink #34 of 95: Erin Bow (erinbow) Wed 28 Aug 24 12:21
>Erin, you said, My experience is I dont really have one idea for a book until I have two ideas for a book. May I ask you to use your own words as a springboard? Ooo, that's a good one. Yes. Over and over again I've had a perfectly respectable idea for a novel, and I'll noodle away on it in the background for a bit. (By the way, I want to hear from other writers here about writing as a slate, like a movie studio slate -- managing various projects at various stages of commitment and completion.) Anyway. Said novel will seem promising -- a few characters, a plot notion or two -- but somehow static. And then, something else will happen. I'll read or see something new, or recognize something in my own life, and that new thing will hit my old idea like the lightning hitting Frankenstien's laboratory. That's where the book finally comes to life. STAND ON THE SKY, my fifth novel, was once about a boy trying to re-wild a hawk in Kansas. Then I saw the photographs from Asher Svidensky (https://www.svidensky.com/>), and it became about a girl training an eagle in western Mongolia. BUTTER AND OWL, the novel I'm working on now, was once about two witch's familars, a cat and a raven, on a road trip to find the missing witch. But it didn't really get started until I decided that the road trip they were on was actually the Odyssey. In the case of SIMON SORT OF SAYS, there was once a protonovel about about a boy living in a funeral home who had some kind of secret -- it was talking to ghosts for a bit, or maybe precognition. Then three things happened. First, my kids were in a lockdown at their school. Second, I read a long-form article about life in the real National Radio Quiet Zone, which protects a radio telescope project in West Virginia. I instantly smashed them together: what if there were a kid who moved to the National Quiet Zone -- a fictional one were I can cut out the internet altogether -- and was happy about it, because it helped him keep his story secret? Third, I saw this cartoon: <https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/09/business/media/mad-magazine-school-shooting s-comic-strip.html> Somehow the fact that Mad Magazine had made a cartoon (though not a funny one) about school shootings was a permission slip to make this book the comedy I'd always wanted to write.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #35 of 95: Nancy White (choco) Wed 28 Aug 24 13:24
permalink #35 of 95: Nancy White (choco) Wed 28 Aug 24 13:24
It is very interesting to read about y'all's writing practice while I'm working on a non-fiction book. There are definite echoes of moments of discovery (and abandonment, reshuffling, rethinking, and maybe even regretting...)
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #36 of 95: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 28 Aug 24 13:43
permalink #36 of 95: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 28 Aug 24 13:43
Advice I recollect is "kill your babies" (things you like, but your readers might not.)
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permalink #37 of 95: seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 14:37
permalink #37 of 95: seanan (seanan) Wed 28 Aug 24 14:37
> Advice I recollect is "kill your babies" (things you like, but your readers might not.) Kin to Murder your darlings which, contrary to widely held belief, sprouted from the mind of Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch. (Thank you, Tin Press. https://tinhouse.com/murder-your-darlings/) If you can stomach The Entity Formerly Known as Twitter, then you can see the full four pages of The Ghastlygun Tinies, presented by Matt Cohen AKA He Who Wrote (but did not Draw) it. https://x.com/mattcohen2/status/1717593989048602716 If not, here is another way. https://imgur.com/gallery/ghastlygun-tinies-mad-magazine-eSvwrD1 > that new thing will hit my old idea like the lightning hitting Frankenstein's laboratory. That's where the book finally comes to life. That happened with my I live for research queer backstory to ROMEO AND JULIET. There was a prelude to a bolt, and then the bolt. The prelude was Theres an espionage subplot. The bolt came when I walked into a research center, forced my stuck heels to carry me to a research librarian, said I needed guidance, and told her what I was doing: half-sentence backstory and subplot. She asked who the lovers were. That answer lit her, which lit hope in me. Then she asked a pertinent question about the backstory, which I couldnt answer, so she did, complete with why the books timing was perfect, a tidy history lecture (in context), advice about a fellowship and research space, and a printed pile of resources. Behold: Librarian as lightning bolt. Since then, history has struck like volcanic lightning, time and again. Story (as an entity) makes us human. The original theatre was people gathered around a fire, sharing (possibly exaggerated) stories of their days, tales of their histories, their myths, their dreams. (Anent nothing, the Washington Post recently ran an article with the title and subtitle Is oral history more durable than written history? Why the stories told by Indigenous cultures just might provide a better record of the earths past. https://wapo.st/3T8WW6a) My social network is scattered, I live a solitary life, there is (not for want of hunting) no writers group in my world, and if it werent for librarians, pages, curators, and library workers, I could easily go for weeks without speaking a word to a living human being. (I pet-sit. Cats, dogs, and pigeons are the recipients of conversations peppered with I dont know why I speak to you in complete sentences. There are times when the coals run cold, and theres not much in the way of breath or kindling to warm the storying world to fire. In the truly glorious, sometimes overwhelming endurance slog of research, with my utter lack of concrete reason to believe that all of the time that all of these people (I work in many libraries, and _many_ minds have invested wisdom, suggestions, direction, and generosity in this work.) are pouring themselves into something worthwhile, a few unsought, gifted torches stand out. In no particular order: I wrote about a startling piece of support-this-part-of-the-novel research, and Jane Hirshield wrote, Proof of concept: Here is a writer. Note that I am supposed to know none of this. I am grateful not to live in supposed to. A research librarian led a research workshop (Shocking, I know.) for teens. At the end, she asked for questions. A teen stuck up a hand and was called on. What, came the query, was the most exciting recent project to come across your desk? And the librarian one whom I rightly hold in a light of awe told a room full of teenagers about my work-in-progress. A year later, during lean months, I still dine on this. For this, unlike any other manuscript Ive written, I write anchor scenes. One turned into a chapter. It is, although ones not to know it, because He said/He said break the beat, almost entirely in iambic pentameter. In one of my personal Abysses of Insecurity, which sinks adjacent to an Infinite Bog thats all too familiar to other artists in my orbs, I sent it to Erin. Two parts of the response glitter in my head. One was a single word: Dazzling. The other was advice: Submit it for everything. (Ah, yes. Erin, I just submitted it for something. Everything may take a little time. Which ambling preamble leads to this. Rather, these. Skip the lot or pick from amongst them, as you will. Again, in no particular order: You have, amongst other lauds, galaxies of Kirkus stars, a Governor Generals Literary Award, and a Newbery Honor. Some might think these would steer you forever clear of the Boundless Ocean of Exhausted Blah, the Bog of Infinite Despair, and the rest of the Map of Artists Miseries. What is your response to this? (I started with What do you say but What is your response gives greater allowance. Response can be interpreted in countless ways.) Thoughts on success and the need (or lack thereof) for kith and kindling when the coals run cold. Pressures, external and in, to develop and maintain a persona, mask, act, truth, ___ of/belief in recognition having taken you beyond those needs. An expectation that you will/can/should embody success. There may or may not be some attachment to role-modeling in this. What (if anything) lights the fire for you, when it is dim? And one for Nancy: Would you be willing to expand on the echoes, the overlaps, and the distances-between the writing of fiction and non? This is, of course, entirely optional. This weaves with Erin asking for shared insights from other writers, with this being a conversation, about writers as community, and about learning from one another about all of the flowers, fruits, vegetables, weeds, and pollen that make this work just that: creative _work_. Also keeping near the forefront Erins I want to hear from other writers here about writing as a slate, like a movie studio slate -- managing various projects at various stages of commitment and completion. It is a very festival of choices. What is an Inkwell dipper to do?
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #38 of 95: David Albert (aslan) Wed 28 Aug 24 15:01
permalink #38 of 95: David Albert (aslan) Wed 28 Aug 24 15:01
> and actually only wish it hadn't been in the book > jacket copy which was quoted above, so the reader could discover it > at the same time that Simon's friends did. In my case, since my wife and I read books aloud to each other if they are worth it, this book was read aloud to me, and I never saw the jacket cover until after. Of course my wife knew in advance that I would not be unduly and personally traumatized by the story (not the same thing as not shivering and breaking down crying, but I was able to go to work the next day). I think in this case it is reasonable, as you say. And parents will have the option to share or not share the jacket cover with their children if they choose to read it aloud as a family. I can't remember if I read the book before or after seeing the short movie "If Anything Happens I Love You". In any case, I am glad I did not have to go work the next day after seeing that.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #39 of 95: Peter Meuleners (pjm) Wed 28 Aug 24 15:24
permalink #39 of 95: Peter Meuleners (pjm) Wed 28 Aug 24 15:24
I listened to the audiobook, so I enjoyed every turn in the story without any spoilers. (I made good guesses at couple of them ahead of time.)
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #40 of 95: Nancy White (choco) Wed 28 Aug 24 20:18
permalink #40 of 95: Nancy White (choco) Wed 28 Aug 24 20:18
<seanan> I will circle back with thoughts. Alas, I have to go write. :-)
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #41 of 95: seanan (seanan) Thu 29 Aug 24 03:04
permalink #41 of 95: seanan (seanan) Thu 29 Aug 24 03:04
You are the only one who thinks this is Alas.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #42 of 95: seanan (seanan) Thu 29 Aug 24 03:23
permalink #42 of 95: seanan (seanan) Thu 29 Aug 24 03:23
This sprouts another wondering, and it is an open-to-all one. It sits in the Betweens or, if you prefer, the In-Betweens. Whether its a matter of obligations, inclinations, distractions, health ill or otherwise demanding, mood, the needs of flesh or mind and writing. What lands in the land where you cannot write? The land where you do anything but write, because writing is blocked or stands at your minds door with excess baggage in its hands? Where you feel you are failing or falling short in one area or another, because the regions of your life want you in more than one physical or other place? Where, perhaps, you cannot do the other thing with whole self, because part of you yearns to be writing? Where baking and eating a nations worth of chocolate chocolate-chip cupcakes sounds like a better choice than facing your work-in-progress? What shape is your in-between, what lands you there, and how do you free yourself? If youve noticed and can (and are willing to) name a pattern or trigger, then what is it, and what helps to counter it? This may be a place where the creators in the room and everybody is creative, one way or another, and sometimes torn away can both learn that they are the opposite of alone, and share tricks and tools that others can also use. Erin, you and I have talked about this time and time again. Times change, as do people and work and life (change being the only constant), and theres always more to ponder.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #43 of 95: Seanan (seanan) Thu 29 Aug 24 03:26
permalink #43 of 95: Seanan (seanan) Thu 29 Aug 24 03:26
<scribbled by seanan Thu 29 Aug 24 03:26>
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #44 of 95: seanan (seanan) Thu 29 Aug 24 03:27
permalink #44 of 95: seanan (seanan) Thu 29 Aug 24 03:27
As Im inviting others to confide their truths, Ill add this. For me, in the balm of my solitude, the luxury of stillness in a sleeping world conflicts with a factor of time. I overslept til almost 05:00 and have to cram in language studies, exercise, an off-track errand with an imminent deadline, awareness that the day includes revising a CV for a research-and-writing job and judging a slew of short stories, and a scratchy need to get my centuries-old Veronese teenager into a deadly mess. The first part of the solution is Get off the WELL. The next is all and only ticking my way down the list, with coffee jammed early in. The safety net is a notebook in my pocket. As an adult, its easier to listen to my mothers voice, and remember that when I think it is the time to _Write It Down_.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #45 of 95: Inkwell Co-host (jonl) Thu 29 Aug 24 06:49
permalink #45 of 95: Inkwell Co-host (jonl) Thu 29 Aug 24 06:49
I've been blocked for so long that I wonder if I'm still a writer? Looking back at my written works, I wonder who wrote those lucid bits of prose, it couldn't have been me? I tell myself that, if it was in me to be a writer, I'd be writing every day, more than social media posts and odd bits of content here and there. It would be a discipline and I would take time for it, not as labor but as an inescapable part of my life, something I must do just as I must eat, drink, and breathe. I don't have that feeling anymore. I wonder if I'll have it again.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #46 of 95: Erin Bow (erinbow) Thu 29 Aug 24 08:51
permalink #46 of 95: Erin Bow (erinbow) Thu 29 Aug 24 08:51
Greetings from the in-between. It's the start of a travel day for me -- an early morning ferry on the Georgian Straight heading toward Vancouver. WE're paused in dock at a tiny island, which I presume is related to the "is there a doctor or nurse or anyone medical aboard" announcement and the stern bustle of the stewards. I find myself crossing myself as my grandmother would have. There are otters in the kelp flats outside the window. By midnight I should be in Toronto. And I haven't written in months. The whole of this year, really, has been taken up in various care-giving tasks -- my elderly parents and in-laws, my teens, both of whom are autistic. I came to BC for most of August to house-sit/cat-sit for friends and attempt to find my writer self again, but I didn't. Instead, my father died. I rushed to be there. I came back and greived. I have been staring at the sea and hardly able even to journal. So, Seanan asks if my various accomplishments free me from the sloughs of despond. They do not. I might be a bit more resistant to imposter syndrome. Once in a while it just feels like it's a bigger height to fall from once my scam is uncovered, but mostly I believe I am writer, and I will write again. I also try to think of it as a fallow season, not a blocked one - -a cover crop on the field; winter in the garden. I try to keep up with morning pages (a la The Artist's Way) which I think of as tending the soil as opposed to growing the actual work. I keep a commonplace book in the form of a stack of index cards. There are hard times when even that this too much. I believe they will end and I'll write again. But I don't know how to make that new season start. Entering writing does seem to require a different route every time.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #47 of 95: seanan (seanan) Thu 29 Aug 24 09:22
permalink #47 of 95: seanan (seanan) Thu 29 Aug 24 09:22
Thank you (plural) for your honesty and vulnerability.
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #48 of 95: Andrew Alden (alden) Thu 29 Aug 24 09:57
permalink #48 of 95: Andrew Alden (alden) Thu 29 Aug 24 09:57
When I wrote my book (Deep Oakland: How Geology Shaped a City), what worked was opening up the working document every day, even for a few stolen minutes, and looking at it. Something to fix, something to add, something to condense or reword or move would seize my eye and compel my fingers into motion. That daily bout with the monster would keep my subconscious rattling along around the clock. There's something to be said for fallowing, but the soil needs to be checked every now and then or you're just procrastinating. I told my self for years that I was nurturing a rich soil for the work that would sprout. I was busy enough that I didn't need to consider a book. What got me moving was the steady accumulation of birthdays and the growing wish to make something that would live beyond me. There's also reading. Whether my response is admiration, intrigue, envy or scorn, responding is key. I often remind myself of what Walt Whitman said: "I was simmering, simmering, simmering . . . Emerson brought me to a boil."
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Erin Bow: Journeys Through Writing
permalink #49 of 95: Nancy White (choco) Thu 29 Aug 24 14:52
permalink #49 of 95: Nancy White (choco) Thu 29 Aug 24 14:52
<hidden>
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permalink #50 of 95: Nancy White (choco) Fri 30 Aug 24 07:48
permalink #50 of 95: Nancy White (choco) Fri 30 Aug 24 07:48
Ramblings above hidden for length.
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