inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #501 of 578: jelly fish challenged (reet) Tue 19 Nov 24 18:52
    
>>> I think I'm coming to the point where
 obsessing over what goes on in DC isn't healthy for me. I need to
 find the balance point between awareness/engagement and debilitating
 anxiety. That's a matter of self-care.

Me, too.

Thank you, everyone.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #502 of 578: seanan (seanan) Wed 20 Nov 24 06:48
    
All thanks to all. 

May we survive to thrive again. 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #503 of 578: Celia Chapman (lark) Wed 20 Nov 24 09:59
    
I don't know what I'm going to do yet. It's good to read all the
specific plans people have. 

I'm not going to get down in the weeds in the news like I did last
time. I will follow but not hours and hours of wishful thinking on
MSNBC. 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #504 of 578: Tiffany (magdalen) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:00
    <scribbled by magdalen Wed 20 Nov 24 11:08>
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #505 of 578: magdalen (magdalen) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:07
    
I plan to attempt to open my mind. Again. I had a long, dark teatime
of the school in 2016 and 2017. I began a serious effort To become
less judgmental, with nothing more creative to offer than
“resistance.” 

it is relevant to point out that my family and I moved to a very
purple area in 2016, coming out of a blue liberal bubble. And until
we got out, I honestly did not realize just how precious and smug
and condescending and seemingly untethered from normal reality the
blue bubble cities can be.

This time, I have found it easier to slide out of despair,
post-election, and pretty quickly into an attitude of looking for
possibilities during the upcoming four years of upheaval.

I am hopeful that Democrats, liberals, the left, and/or progressives
will manage to learn from this election. I hope that we will try to
make our own silos less strict, more accepting of different
viewpoints and of critical thinking. I hope we will defund the
language police.

As a small-town newspaper journalist and columnist, in a very purple
area, I feel that my work actually makes a difference here. I am
more likely to piss off conservatives than liberals, etc., but I do
my best to consider multiple sides of each issue. I have some
friends here who warn me that I have turned into scapegoat, and I
guess I just don’t care. 

I think it is more important to bridge divides, or at least
recognize our own faults and alienating words and behaviors. What I
miss is an atmosphere convivial sparring and critical thinking among
the so-called elites. Refusing to go along with established
orthodoxies used to be a hallmark of the intellectual classes, of
those pushing boundaries in the arts, and academia. I hope that as
we get our asses kicked in elections like this one, we come to
recognize that we need this kind of open discussion, regardless of
what the latest DEI diktat tells us. 

I also hope that we will see the positive aspects of the people
taking control of their own laws and destiny. for example, relying
on Roe v Wade for the essential protection of women’s reproductive
rights for half a century was really unwise. Some of us knew this,
some of us wanted something more solid. Now many states are
providing themselves with those protections. 

Maybe people in the Trump camp are correct. Maybe it is better to
allow people at the state level to determine a little more of their
fates and their legislations. The cultural Balkanization and
potential geographical and political split of the United States
might be better avoided by more action at the state level, less
interference at the federal level. In other words, this might be a
good strategy for keeping this country going for the long haul,
rather than something to keep fighting with Republicans about.

The voters spoke in this election, and that’s what democracy is. I
don’t think most of them actually voted for fascism. They voted for
change. Where there is change, where there is chaos, there is
opportunity. 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #506 of 578: magdalen (magdalen) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:09
    
And in the post above, which was dictated into my phone, I was
trying to say Long Dark Teatime of the Soul, not school!
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #507 of 578: a (coiro) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:22
    
Wow. magdalen.

So much in there I need to sit with. This kind of shook me:

"And until we got out, I honestly did not realize just how precious
and smug and condescending and seemingly untethered from normal
reality the
blue bubble cities can be."

Sitting.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #508 of 578: Axon (axon) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:51
    
Well, I love the deep blue bubble of Eugene. If this ain't normal
reality, I don't want to want to know what is. Perfection is ever
elusive, but I'm confident that if leopards come here to eat faces,
they're going to encounter fur trappers. A lot of them.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #509 of 578: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Wed 20 Nov 24 13:21
    
I've been concerned about that blue bubble <magdalen> mentions, that
we really don't understand what's happening in the USA. I think
about the growing realization over time that the USA as a whole has
been a bubble depending on exploitation of various peoples and
countries... thinking back to Fritz Lang's "Metropolis" and the
point he was making about what Ted Gioia was writing about recently,
the "downs" vs the "ups" - I guess meaning ordinary people vs the
elites. So many ordinary people are sure the Democrats don't have
their backs, which might be more true than we realize. But you have
to wonder that they will believe, against all evidence, that the
current MAGA tribe has their backs, especially the elites that
cultivate that tribe. 

I find myself wondering what those people, what all of us, are going
to learn over the next four years. What's troubling is the obvious
incompetence - even celebration of incompetence - within the Trump
regime. People really didn't realize that's what they were getting?

It's like thinking you can blow up the foundation and the house will
be intact and okay. Ain't gonna happen. We should know better, and
many of us do... but too too many don't.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #510 of 578: Larry Person (lperson) Wed 20 Nov 24 13:25
    
> we really don't understand what's happening in the USA

The same can be said of people in the red bubble.

The blue bubble is very much the USA, as much if not more so than
the other side.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #511 of 578: Celia Chapman (lark) Wed 20 Nov 24 13:48
    
L.A. is definitely a blue city but where I live in the San Fernando
Valley it's more conservative. Probably not enough to really
understand.

In light of what has happened after the fall of Roe I think some
things should not be left to the states. 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #512 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Wed 20 Nov 24 15:09
    
I definitely don't share the disdain for blue places. I think we are
building some really good things where progressives live, though we
haven't solved all problems of course. But we know how to provide
education and healthcare. We love libraries and museums and learning
and history. History of many places and cultures too, not just of
the old white history in these United States.

More right-wing folks should come join us. It's a good life in so
many ways.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #513 of 578: William F. Stockton (yesway) Wed 20 Nov 24 15:38
    
>>It's a good life in so many ways.

It is. Worth sticking up for.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #514 of 578: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Wed 20 Nov 24 19:24
    
<I definitely don't share the disdain for blue places>

I think the problem is that so many people in red places do share
that disdain, as well as, unfortunately, vice versa.

Can we learn to speak each other's languages at least well enough to
keep the war civil? Can we accept each other's humanity? 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #515 of 578: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 20 Nov 24 22:39
    
I view the new administration as the official end of facts, and the
end of the scientific method in particular.

I have no options but to hunker down.

And get my vaccines.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #516 of 578: Michael C. Berch (mcb) Wed 20 Nov 24 23:09
    
> Can we learn to speak each other's languages at least well enough to
> keep the war civil? Can we accept each other's humanity? 

I am not yet convinced that is the best survival strategy. Trying to 
"accept the humanity" of the Nazis in the 1930s would not have
worked. Not sure what (if anything) would have, other than doing
whatever it took to get out of the country. Even an ongoing insurgency
would be better than moon-faced appeasement. 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #517 of 578: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Thu 21 Nov 24 00:54
    
<Trying to "accept the humanity" of the Nazis in the 1930s would not
have worked>

I wasn't advocating accepting (or even tolerating) Nazi (or MAGA)
barbarism. I was suggesting that finding a political solution to our
crisis probably means at least trying to understand the appeal of
MAGA well enough to prevent its reaching a stage beyond any possible
political solution.

I don't want to believe most MAGA voters are Nazis. I'd also like to
believe it's possible to find a political solution before that
happens.

I think the first step is just to admit we don't really understand
what's been happening, and that's probably why most of our attempts
to defeat MAGA for the past nine years have been less than
successful. 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #518 of 578: David Turoff (condorito) Thu 21 Nov 24 00:58
    
Agreed; I have no reason to discuss anything with the idiots,
lunatics, and fascist assholes threatening everything decent in the
world.

All I can do is my best to protect myself and people about whom I
care from them, whatever it takes.

<slipped>
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #519 of 578: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Thu 21 Nov 24 06:45
    
>>> Trying to "accept the humanity" of the Nazis in the 1930s would
not
have worked

And you know this how, exactly?
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #520 of 578: Larry Person (lperson) Thu 21 Nov 24 06:53
    
Because they're nazis?
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #521 of 578: Michael Newman (jstrawtoo) Thu 21 Nov 24 06:57
    
Jesus Christ, Jon. It's that "when someone tells you who they
are..." thing. 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #522 of 578: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:08
    
I'm generally opposed to othering and dehumanizing. I'm not into the
argument that "they do it to us, so we'll do it to them."

Also, excluding any strategy because "we all know how they'll
respond" doesn't make sense to me. I don't know any supposed
"Nazis," but they do seem to be human beings and I would think many
or most are capable of empathy. It's hard for me to believe that 50%
of Americans are all completely sociopathic. 

Or that they're "Nazis" - I know people who voted for Trump, and I'm
pretty clear they're not Nazis.

You can come down hard on the side of fear and hate if that's your
thing, but I'm not abandoning hope that when people realize the
implications of some of the rhetoric we've been hearing, they won't
go along with it.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #523 of 578: Larry Person (lperson) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:12
    
> Or that they're "Nazis" - I know people who voted for Trump, and
I'm
pretty clear they're not Nazis.

What is their defect then?
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #524 of 578: Larry Person (lperson) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:14
    
> when people realize the implications of some of the rhetoric we've
been hearing

When MAGA can't get food or bullets they're not going to change.
They'll target Trans people and cheer the deportations and be
mollified by whatever bread and circuses MAGA puts in front of them.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #525 of 578: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:20
    
I hope and believe that you're wrong about that.
  

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