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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #501 of 526: jelly fish challenged (reet) Tue 19 Nov 24 18:52
permalink #501 of 526: jelly fish challenged (reet) Tue 19 Nov 24 18:52
>>> I think I'm coming to the point where obsessing over what goes on in DC isn't healthy for me. I need to find the balance point between awareness/engagement and debilitating anxiety. That's a matter of self-care. Me, too. Thank you, everyone.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #502 of 526: seanan (seanan) Wed 20 Nov 24 06:48
permalink #502 of 526: seanan (seanan) Wed 20 Nov 24 06:48
All thanks to all. May we survive to thrive again.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #503 of 526: Celia Chapman (lark) Wed 20 Nov 24 09:59
permalink #503 of 526: Celia Chapman (lark) Wed 20 Nov 24 09:59
I don't know what I'm going to do yet. It's good to read all the specific plans people have. I'm not going to get down in the weeds in the news like I did last time. I will follow but not hours and hours of wishful thinking on MSNBC.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #504 of 526: Tiffany (magdalen) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:00
permalink #504 of 526: Tiffany (magdalen) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:00
<scribbled by magdalen Wed 20 Nov 24 11:08>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #505 of 526: magdalen (magdalen) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:07
permalink #505 of 526: magdalen (magdalen) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:07
I plan to attempt to open my mind. Again. I had a long, dark teatime of the school in 2016 and 2017. I began a serious effort To become less judgmental, with nothing more creative to offer than resistance. it is relevant to point out that my family and I moved to a very purple area in 2016, coming out of a blue liberal bubble. And until we got out, I honestly did not realize just how precious and smug and condescending and seemingly untethered from normal reality the blue bubble cities can be. This time, I have found it easier to slide out of despair, post-election, and pretty quickly into an attitude of looking for possibilities during the upcoming four years of upheaval. I am hopeful that Democrats, liberals, the left, and/or progressives will manage to learn from this election. I hope that we will try to make our own silos less strict, more accepting of different viewpoints and of critical thinking. I hope we will defund the language police. As a small-town newspaper journalist and columnist, in a very purple area, I feel that my work actually makes a difference here. I am more likely to piss off conservatives than liberals, etc., but I do my best to consider multiple sides of each issue. I have some friends here who warn me that I have turned into scapegoat, and I guess I just dont care. I think it is more important to bridge divides, or at least recognize our own faults and alienating words and behaviors. What I miss is an atmosphere convivial sparring and critical thinking among the so-called elites. Refusing to go along with established orthodoxies used to be a hallmark of the intellectual classes, of those pushing boundaries in the arts, and academia. I hope that as we get our asses kicked in elections like this one, we come to recognize that we need this kind of open discussion, regardless of what the latest DEI diktat tells us. I also hope that we will see the positive aspects of the people taking control of their own laws and destiny. for example, relying on Roe v Wade for the essential protection of womens reproductive rights for half a century was really unwise. Some of us knew this, some of us wanted something more solid. Now many states are providing themselves with those protections. Maybe people in the Trump camp are correct. Maybe it is better to allow people at the state level to determine a little more of their fates and their legislations. The cultural Balkanization and potential geographical and political split of the United States might be better avoided by more action at the state level, less interference at the federal level. In other words, this might be a good strategy for keeping this country going for the long haul, rather than something to keep fighting with Republicans about. The voters spoke in this election, and thats what democracy is. I dont think most of them actually voted for fascism. They voted for change. Where there is change, where there is chaos, there is opportunity.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #506 of 526: magdalen (magdalen) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:09
permalink #506 of 526: magdalen (magdalen) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:09
And in the post above, which was dictated into my phone, I was trying to say Long Dark Teatime of the Soul, not school!
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #507 of 526: a (coiro) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:22
permalink #507 of 526: a (coiro) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:22
Wow. magdalen. So much in there I need to sit with. This kind of shook me: "And until we got out, I honestly did not realize just how precious and smug and condescending and seemingly untethered from normal reality the blue bubble cities can be." Sitting.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #508 of 526: Axon (axon) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:51
permalink #508 of 526: Axon (axon) Wed 20 Nov 24 11:51
Well, I love the deep blue bubble of Eugene. If this ain't normal reality, I don't want to want to know what is. Perfection is ever elusive, but I'm confident that if leopards come here to eat faces, they're going to encounter fur trappers. A lot of them.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #509 of 526: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Wed 20 Nov 24 13:21
permalink #509 of 526: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Wed 20 Nov 24 13:21
I've been concerned about that blue bubble <magdalen> mentions, that we really don't understand what's happening in the USA. I think about the growing realization over time that the USA as a whole has been a bubble depending on exploitation of various peoples and countries... thinking back to Fritz Lang's "Metropolis" and the point he was making about what Ted Gioia was writing about recently, the "downs" vs the "ups" - I guess meaning ordinary people vs the elites. So many ordinary people are sure the Democrats don't have their backs, which might be more true than we realize. But you have to wonder that they will believe, against all evidence, that the current MAGA tribe has their backs, especially the elites that cultivate that tribe. I find myself wondering what those people, what all of us, are going to learn over the next four years. What's troubling is the obvious incompetence - even celebration of incompetence - within the Trump regime. People really didn't realize that's what they were getting? It's like thinking you can blow up the foundation and the house will be intact and okay. Ain't gonna happen. We should know better, and many of us do... but too too many don't.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #510 of 526: Larry Person (lperson) Wed 20 Nov 24 13:25
permalink #510 of 526: Larry Person (lperson) Wed 20 Nov 24 13:25
> we really don't understand what's happening in the USA The same can be said of people in the red bubble. The blue bubble is very much the USA, as much if not more so than the other side.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #511 of 526: Celia Chapman (lark) Wed 20 Nov 24 13:48
permalink #511 of 526: Celia Chapman (lark) Wed 20 Nov 24 13:48
L.A. is definitely a blue city but where I live in the San Fernando Valley it's more conservative. Probably not enough to really understand. In light of what has happened after the fall of Roe I think some things should not be left to the states.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #512 of 526: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Wed 20 Nov 24 15:09
permalink #512 of 526: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Wed 20 Nov 24 15:09
I definitely don't share the disdain for blue places. I think we are building some really good things where progressives live, though we haven't solved all problems of course. But we know how to provide education and healthcare. We love libraries and museums and learning and history. History of many places and cultures too, not just of the old white history in these United States. More right-wing folks should come join us. It's a good life in so many ways.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #513 of 526: William F. Stockton (yesway) Wed 20 Nov 24 15:38
permalink #513 of 526: William F. Stockton (yesway) Wed 20 Nov 24 15:38
>>It's a good life in so many ways. It is. Worth sticking up for.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #514 of 526: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Wed 20 Nov 24 19:24
permalink #514 of 526: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Wed 20 Nov 24 19:24
<I definitely don't share the disdain for blue places> I think the problem is that so many people in red places do share that disdain, as well as, unfortunately, vice versa. Can we learn to speak each other's languages at least well enough to keep the war civil? Can we accept each other's humanity?
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #515 of 526: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 20 Nov 24 22:39
permalink #515 of 526: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 20 Nov 24 22:39
I view the new administration as the official end of facts, and the end of the scientific method in particular. I have no options but to hunker down. And get my vaccines.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #516 of 526: Michael C. Berch (mcb) Wed 20 Nov 24 23:09
permalink #516 of 526: Michael C. Berch (mcb) Wed 20 Nov 24 23:09
> Can we learn to speak each other's languages at least well enough to > keep the war civil? Can we accept each other's humanity? I am not yet convinced that is the best survival strategy. Trying to "accept the humanity" of the Nazis in the 1930s would not have worked. Not sure what (if anything) would have, other than doing whatever it took to get out of the country. Even an ongoing insurgency would be better than moon-faced appeasement.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #517 of 526: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Thu 21 Nov 24 00:54
permalink #517 of 526: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Thu 21 Nov 24 00:54
<Trying to "accept the humanity" of the Nazis in the 1930s would not have worked> I wasn't advocating accepting (or even tolerating) Nazi (or MAGA) barbarism. I was suggesting that finding a political solution to our crisis probably means at least trying to understand the appeal of MAGA well enough to prevent its reaching a stage beyond any possible political solution. I don't want to believe most MAGA voters are Nazis. I'd also like to believe it's possible to find a political solution before that happens. I think the first step is just to admit we don't really understand what's been happening, and that's probably why most of our attempts to defeat MAGA for the past nine years have been less than successful.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #518 of 526: David Turoff (condorito) Thu 21 Nov 24 00:58
permalink #518 of 526: David Turoff (condorito) Thu 21 Nov 24 00:58
Agreed; I have no reason to discuss anything with the idiots, lunatics, and fascist assholes threatening everything decent in the world. All I can do is my best to protect myself and people about whom I care from them, whatever it takes. <slipped>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #519 of 526: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Thu 21 Nov 24 06:45
permalink #519 of 526: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Thu 21 Nov 24 06:45
>>> Trying to "accept the humanity" of the Nazis in the 1930s would not have worked And you know this how, exactly?
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #520 of 526: Larry Person (lperson) Thu 21 Nov 24 06:53
permalink #520 of 526: Larry Person (lperson) Thu 21 Nov 24 06:53
Because they're nazis?
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #521 of 526: Michael Newman (jstrawtoo) Thu 21 Nov 24 06:57
permalink #521 of 526: Michael Newman (jstrawtoo) Thu 21 Nov 24 06:57
Jesus Christ, Jon. It's that "when someone tells you who they are..." thing.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #522 of 526: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:08
permalink #522 of 526: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:08
I'm generally opposed to othering and dehumanizing. I'm not into the argument that "they do it to us, so we'll do it to them." Also, excluding any strategy because "we all know how they'll respond" doesn't make sense to me. I don't know any supposed "Nazis," but they do seem to be human beings and I would think many or most are capable of empathy. It's hard for me to believe that 50% of Americans are all completely sociopathic. Or that they're "Nazis" - I know people who voted for Trump, and I'm pretty clear they're not Nazis. You can come down hard on the side of fear and hate if that's your thing, but I'm not abandoning hope that when people realize the implications of some of the rhetoric we've been hearing, they won't go along with it.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #523 of 526: Larry Person (lperson) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:12
permalink #523 of 526: Larry Person (lperson) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:12
> Or that they're "Nazis" - I know people who voted for Trump, and I'm pretty clear they're not Nazis. What is their defect then?
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #524 of 526: Larry Person (lperson) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:14
permalink #524 of 526: Larry Person (lperson) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:14
> when people realize the implications of some of the rhetoric we've been hearing When MAGA can't get food or bullets they're not going to change. They'll target Trans people and cheer the deportations and be mollified by whatever bread and circuses MAGA puts in front of them.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #525 of 526: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:20
permalink #525 of 526: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Thu 21 Nov 24 07:20
I hope and believe that you're wrong about that.
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