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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #101 of 184: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 25 Oct 00 17:31
permalink #101 of 184: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 25 Oct 00 17:31
Do you have guidance for business users of computer-mediated communications technologies about effective use & best practices? Or are you still thinking about it?
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #102 of 184: Mary Eisenhart (marye) Wed 25 Oct 00 17:45
permalink #102 of 184: Mary Eisenhart (marye) Wed 25 Oct 00 17:45
Yeah, inquiring Cof P writers want to know!
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #103 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Wed 25 Oct 00 17:55
permalink #103 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Wed 25 Oct 00 17:55
I'm working on some beginning and advanced curricula for training people online. I'm at the -- scraps of good stuff all over the table, plus a rough outline -- stage. Didn't I mention the story of the hip-hop in brooklyn mail list from hell? Simply knowing how to do the basics -- good subject line, knowing how to use cc: and bcc, not ccing entire distribution lists just to leave your territorial mark, not forwarding virus warnings and urban legends. How not to be the kind of cretin who wastes the time of colleagues and complete strangers. Then there are the simple benefits we all recognize. "Experts In The WELL" is an obvious model that some are adopting -- exchanging lore. It works because there are a sufficient number of people within the boundaries of the WELL who value the entire group enough to reciprocate a request from someone they don't know. Now, with reputation systems beginning to evolve from Ebay, Epinions, Slashdot, it's possible to see how webs of trust and diffuse reciprocity might combine. But the fun part is that it only really works if it is fun -- if there is some pleasure in showing off your expertise, and a lack of fear of asking elementary questions. A well-organized social network can server as an early warning system where every person is an antenna for every other person.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #104 of 184: John Payne (satyr) Wed 25 Oct 00 22:47
permalink #104 of 184: John Payne (satyr) Wed 25 Oct 00 22:47
Howard, on Electric Minds you had a longish list of virtual communities, which includes mailing lists and newsgroups as well as conferencing systems. I realize it's probably out of date, but is it still hanging around on the web somewhere? Also, there might be an interesting case study in how the community of die-hard Amiga users was able to hang together through several years of corporate mishandling of their favorite platform, primarily through the use of computer mediated communication of one sort or another.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #105 of 184: Runcible Spoonerism (bryan) Thu 26 Oct 00 00:09
permalink #105 of 184: Runcible Spoonerism (bryan) Thu 26 Oct 00 00:09
I always thought "Experts on the Well" was successful because people like showing off their knowledge.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #106 of 184: Amy Jo Kim (amyjo) Thu 26 Oct 00 01:30
permalink #106 of 184: Amy Jo Kim (amyjo) Thu 26 Oct 00 01:30
In regards to the earlier question: "Does the Internet make people happy?" -- more and more, I see the Net as a powerful tool that amplifies (and sometimes distorts) someone's existing moods, tendancies and relationships. Kinda like looking into a fun-house mirror -- for better and for worse. For example, if a couple is drifting apart, the Net can accelerate that process by making it easier and more convenient for each person to connect with others online, and therefore avoid a difficult in-person situation. And having access to the Net can amplify the procrastinationg tendancies of a student who's cramming for midterms. OTOH, the Net can also amplify the communications among a group of friends, colleagues, or family members who want to stay in touch, but finds the overhead daunting. And it can also amplify the ability of a small business owner to reach a global audience (think eBay). Basically, the Net speeds things up, streamlines communications, and offers convenient access to people, information and activities. It's a tremendously compelling medium -- with great potential for both enrichment and abuse. Being on the Net seems to bring out the best and the worst in people -- which is why it's an *amplifier*, rather than something that's "good" or "bad" for people per se.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #107 of 184: Katie Hafner (kmh) Thu 26 Oct 00 08:52
permalink #107 of 184: Katie Hafner (kmh) Thu 26 Oct 00 08:52
I distinctly remember being blown away by the power of a mailing list for people with ALS (Lou Gehrig's). This was several years ago, and I was on the list for a while because I was writing a piece for Newsweek. It was amazing to see how people so geographically from others with ALS, and physically and emotionally isolated from all the healthy people in their immediate surround, could eliminate that sense of isolation through the list. So in that case it wasn't an amplifer so much as the most important lifeline a lot of these people had. It was a dramatic example, but it set a tone of optimism for me back then that has never gone away, even with all the spammers and clueless idiots Howard has been talking about. And Howard, I sense that same optimism in you..
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #108 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Thu 26 Oct 00 10:24
permalink #108 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Thu 26 Oct 00 10:24
John, You mean the Virtual Community Center? Something that is still badly needed. Too bad there is no business model to sustain it. It turns out that you can't rate virtual communities the way Yahoo rates websites. It just isn't fair to hit and run. Someone needs to take the time to check back many times, over a period of days and weeks, to try to get some flavor of what really goes on. How could someone hope to "review" the WELL on the basis of a ten minute visit? So it is time and expertise intensive to do the job. We were also trying to make the reviews somewhat lively in terms of their writing. Some of our best material came from Wellites doxy and lizabeth, and Wellite jilld was in charge of that part of Electric Minds. In any case, there is an archive: <http://www.abbedon.com/electricminds/html/vcc_landing.html> Bryan -- the experts' sense of the audience is key. Nobody wants to show off their expertise to bozos, and people tend to be more motivated to show off their expertise if they have some expertise that they can make use of the public good at some time themselves. So I still contend that the social element to lore exchange is key. Katie -- yes, I'm still optimistic. Clearly, many people with specific pressing needs have found lifelines and yes, community, through online discussions. The reality of their experience should not be denied. I think it's clear from the new chapter that I've become much more critical of that optimism. How far can it extend? How far should it extend. I don't have this morning's San Francisco Chronicle at hand, but it cited several stories that the reporter claimed contradicted earlier research that indicated "Internet sad, lonely place." I'd want to put the new studies under the same methodological scrutiny that the flawed Kraut et al. and Nie studies were subjected to here in the WELL and elsewhere. I suspect that the simplistic answer is that (as Amy Jo points out) life online can help or hinder your social life, depending on your circumstances, and how you make use of the online world.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #109 of 184: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 26 Oct 00 10:29
permalink #109 of 184: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 26 Oct 00 10:29
Sure. You still need to bring community-building and communications stills to bear, as you do in other places.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #110 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Thu 26 Oct 00 10:32
permalink #110 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Thu 26 Oct 00 10:32
(my third "expertise" in my reply to Bryan should have been "expectation") (I like the feature that Caucus and WebCrossing have that makes it possible for users to edit responses within a set interval after posting.)
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #111 of 184: Katie Hafner (kmh) Thu 26 Oct 00 10:45
permalink #111 of 184: Katie Hafner (kmh) Thu 26 Oct 00 10:45
Howard, what are your book tour plans, btw?
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #112 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Thu 26 Oct 00 10:53
permalink #112 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Thu 26 Oct 00 10:53
Book tour? MIT Press? I somehow doubt that a book tour is being arranged, since the pub date is next week and nobody has contacted me. I didn't expect a trade-book-style publicity campaign for this. I'm happy that they are sending out review copies and are selling into college and technical bookstores. I think we have a chance that my readers will find it by word of mouth. Book tours. You feel like a discarded tissue if your publisher doesn't send you on one, and you feel like a discarded and well used tissue if you do get sent on one. As you know, it's a grueling enterprise. As I recall, it means you get a fax when you arrive at your hotel. At 5 the next morning, you get up and grab whatever kind of stale bagel and coffee is available at that hour and head for the airport for a morning flight. Your escort picks you up at the airport. They have chicken salad sandwiches and coffee. You spend 12 hours saying the same thing at a jillion radio and tv stations, newspapers and magazines. The publicist books you in bulk -- the more appointments on your daily fax, the better, and a 12 watt college radio station gets the same time as a national newsmagazine. You end up at your hotel room at 10 that night, lay out your cleaner clothes for the next day (two weeks into this, you start washing underwear and socks in the bathroom), get up at 5 the next morning, rinse, repeat.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #113 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Thu 26 Oct 00 11:51
permalink #113 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Thu 26 Oct 00 11:51
I just learned that Wellite jswatz wrote about the new study in NYT. Does anyone have a link? I love his lede: "THE Internet might not be such a sad and lonely place after all." (riffing on the headline for Amy Harmon's article some months back about the Kraut et al study). Couple of short quotes: The World Internet Project of the U.C.L.A. Center for Communication Policy surveyed more than 2,000 American households and found that, on average, those surveyed said the Internet increased their contact with others, including family members. More than one in four said they had online friends they had never met in person, and 12.4 percent of people who had made friends online said that they had gone on to meet online friends face to face. Family life has benefited as well, according to the study: Nearly all users (91.8 percent) said that since being connected to the Internet at home, members of the household had spent about the same amount of time or more time together. Nearly half of users said they spent at least some time each week using the Internet with other family members. "People do not go online at the expense of their personal lives," said Jeffrey I. Cole, director of the U.C.L.A. center. (I'd like to hear about the methodology and statistical analysis from someone who knows more than I do about methodology and statistical analysis. Donna Hoffman comes to mind. She tore into the Kraut study on those grounds, as I recall.)
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #114 of 184: John Payne (satyr) Thu 26 Oct 00 12:18
permalink #114 of 184: John Payne (satyr) Thu 26 Oct 00 12:18
> <http://www.abbedon.com/electricminds/html/vcc_landing.html> Thanks! It was just the directory index I was referring to. I'd forgotten that the items in that list linked to reviews (wasn't really shopping around for additional virtual communities when I discovered it...).
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #115 of 184: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 26 Oct 00 12:27
permalink #115 of 184: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 26 Oct 00 12:27
That link is http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/26/technology/26SURV.html (Note: you have to be a subscriber to the online edition of the Times in order to read the article, but I think subscription is free.)
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #116 of 184: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 26 Oct 00 12:28
permalink #116 of 184: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 26 Oct 00 12:28
They do rent the email list, so if you have a nome de spam, use that one.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #117 of 184: Rafe Colburn (rafeco) Thu 26 Oct 00 12:30
permalink #117 of 184: Rafe Colburn (rafeco) Thu 26 Oct 00 12:30
You can just use the name and password cypherpunk/cypherpunk.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #118 of 184: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 26 Oct 00 12:45
permalink #118 of 184: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 26 Oct 00 12:45
Here's an interesting excerpt: "What does get squeezed out of the Internet users' lives, apparently, is television. Web users reported they watched 28 percent less television than nonusers."
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #119 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Thu 26 Oct 00 13:07
permalink #119 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Thu 26 Oct 00 13:07
The optimist and online-lover in me wants to believe that Internet usage (and I don't know yet whether they distinguish between surfing and communicating to any fine degree) cuts into usage of mass media rather than into ftf interpersonal relationships. Which is why I want to reserve my approval until I hear more from experts about the sample, statistics, measures, etc.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #120 of 184: Nancy White (choco) Thu 26 Oct 00 15:18
permalink #120 of 184: Nancy White (choco) Thu 26 Oct 00 15:18
More on the study New Internet Study released by UCLA: Article about: http://www.latimes.com/business/20001026/t000102193.html Study: http://www.ccp.ucla.edu/ucla-report.pdf
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #121 of 184: Amy Jo Kim (amyjo) Thu 26 Oct 00 20:29
permalink #121 of 184: Amy Jo Kim (amyjo) Thu 26 Oct 00 20:29
More coverage: http://freep.com/money/tech/net26_20001026.htm http://www.thestandard.com/article/display/0,1151,19694,00.html
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #122 of 184: John Schwartz (jswatz) Fri 27 Oct 00 08:24
permalink #122 of 184: John Schwartz (jswatz) Fri 27 Oct 00 08:24
The methodology is pretty well laid out in the study, which is available at the URL above. It's a survey, but a very big one, and conducted on a random sample of the population. So many of the sources of bias that creep into other surveys that are conducted online are avoided. Also, the survey includes non-internet users, which gives you a little better comparison than surveys and studies that don't look to the other side. Most interesting, the UCLA crew intends to follow all of these people over several years' time--a horeendously difficult task, but one that they believe they can undertake. That will get around a problem found in many studies conducted over time: that the "they" changes. So there are a lot of solid aspects to this work. On the other hand, there are known problems with telephone surveys. Self-reported data gets fuzzy, researchers say, when it comes to quantifying the ways that people spend their time, and when it comes to potentially embarassing topics, people tend to lie. So the researchers tried to figure out the topics that might be most unreliable and eliminated those. But again, don't take my word for it; I just typed up the story. Disintermediate! http://www.ccp.ucla.edu/ucla-report.pdf
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #123 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Fri 27 Oct 00 09:36
permalink #123 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Fri 27 Oct 00 09:36
I don't want to pose as someone who has a deep understanding of either experimental design methodology or statistics. Even at that, it was clear that the Kraut et al study was making big claims on the basis of some rather thin research -- round up a couple hundred people who don't have computers (already a skewed sample), give them computers and Internet access, test them at long intervals of months and years, don't include a control group. Many of them were adolescents. Maybe natural angst having to do with becoming a teenager was involved. Maybe they discovered the world outside Pittsburgh made their own lives look depressing. Maybe they thought they would try social interaction and peeked into a chat room full of middle aged men pretending to be young women, and vice versa.
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #124 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Fri 27 Oct 00 10:07
permalink #124 of 184: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Fri 27 Oct 00 10:07
One problem with research into the effects of social behavior online is that it ought to be interdisciplinary for best results, IMO. Over the years, I've noted that social psychologists, sociologists, political scientists, even historians, tend to have small pieces of the puzzle, but are generally unaware of how they fit with other pieces. Universities and funding institutions haven't been terribly encouraging to interdisciplinary research. Unrelated to life online, I know that Denise Caruso is trying to stimulate interdisciplinary research in other sciences. She calls it "Hybrid Vigor." And I seem to recall that the Kraut team was interdisciplinary. The part about political scientists and historians was stimulated by my interest in the public sphere. Frankfurt school political philosopher Habermas concentrated on the origins of the modern public sphere in public gathering places and bourgeois and early capitalist institutions. A recent book by Zaret, a historian, puts the origins further back and more closely linked to printing, in the form of petitions in 17th century England. His claim was that political philosophers should have paid better attention to historiography. But I digress. Next question? Comment?
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Howard Rheingold - The Virtual Community, second edition
permalink #125 of 184: Katie Hafner (kmh) Fri 27 Oct 00 10:23
permalink #125 of 184: Katie Hafner (kmh) Fri 27 Oct 00 10:23
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