When once it is a fact that there is no movement in any direction of improving, changing, or evolving into anything different or better, then what is there is something extraordinary.
It would be a horrible world if this planet were to be only full of Jesuses and Buddhas and all the other teachers.
Revolution only means revaluation of our value system. After a while things settle down, and then they go at it again. But it is basically a modified continuity of the same. In that process what horrors we have committed, you know!
The questions, "Is there any meaning?" "Is there any purpose?" take away the living quality of life. You are living in a world of ideas.
The belief in reincarnation is born out of the demand that something will continue after your so-called death. It is the same mechanism which wants to know what will happen after death. For some reason that mechanism, that movement of thought, does not want to come to an end. But, if you want to know if there is anything beyond, you have to die now.
Q: How are you and I different? In perceptions? Or is there any other difference?
A: The thought that I am different from you never, never enters my head. It is thinking that separates you and tells you that I am different from you, that I am functioning differently from you. But you and I are functioning in exactly the same way.
Q: ....except that I am thinking with thoughts in order to know.
A: Yes, you want to know. The living organism is like a computer with an extraordinary intelligence, similar to the way that tape recorder is functioning. The recorder never asks the question, "How am I functioning?" All it needs is the energy there. The electricity is necessary for its functioning. But here the energy is a sort of expression of life. Energy is already there. But you are all the time asking questions.
The thought that I am different from you never enters my head at all. If you ask me the question, "Are you not different from me?" all the knowledge that I have, that separates you and me, is already there in the computer. It tells me that you are a woman and I am a man, and you are more intelligent than I am. The whole series of ideas that are put into the computer comes into operation. Your question brings out the knowledge that is there, stored in the computer here (pointing to himself). These are two computers talking, but you want to introduce an element which is not part of the functioning of this living organism. That is why you begin to think that there must be something different here (in U.G.).
Q: So, I am making the separation?
A: You are making the separation. It is the very question that separates us. But actually there are no questions at all. All the questions are born out of the answers we already have. They are not really the questions.
Q: So, actually, we should probably be keeping silent?
A: You think that silence is a means to understand anything? It is the game of all these religious people. Through silence they feel they are communicating something. But in that silence no communication is necessary.
Q: What is the nature of intelligence? What does that word mean to you?
A: The only meaning that I can come up with is what we find in the dictionary.
Q: Oh well, there is a lot of intelligence in you....
A: I agree that you are more intelligent than I am. That is just because of our background and our hereditary differences.
Q: Is there any higher intelligence?
A: You are more intelligent than I am. You see, this is something which can be measured. We have certain yardsticks in the world that say that you are more intelligent than I am. Those are acceptable to me. But any attempt on my part to improve my intelligence, change it, modify it, make it better, would consume tremendous amounts of energy. That is all. You see, without that, what you are left with is something extraordinary. It is not interested in comparing itself with your intellect or anything. It is not a question of accepting that I am a low grade moron. 'Acceptance' is not the word. When once it is a fact that there is no movement in any direction of improving, changing, or evolving into anything different or better, then what is there is something extraordinary. It is unique in its own way. Every individual is unique. Nature creates perfect species and not perfect individuals.
A: Perfect species, not perfect individuals. Perfect individuals are created by the religious thinking of man. We have put before ourselves the model of Jesus and Buddha and all these religious teachers. It would be a horrible world if this planet were to be only full of Jesuses and Buddhas and all the other teachers.
Q: It would be horrible and terrible. A: ....like filling this whole earth with only roses of one kind. It would be a horrible place. That is what education is doing to us.
Q: So, the individual isn't perfect but the species is....?
A: Every human being is different. That is all I am saying. There is nobody like you anywhere in this world. I tell you, nobody! I am talking physiologically, you know. But we ignore that, and try to put everybody in a common mould and create what we call the greatest common factor. All the time you are trying to educate them and fit them into the value system. If that value system does not work, naturally revolutions take place. The whole idea of restructuring is nothing but a revaluation of the old value system. Revolution only means revaluation of our value system. It is the same thing. After a while things settle down, and then they go at it again. There is no improvement again. Or there is a slight improvement. But it is basically a modified continuity of the same. In that process what horrors we have committed, you know! Is it really worth all that? But you seem to think that it is. After killing so many people you go back to the same system, the same technique. What is the point? But we will keep going that way.
Q: Can I ask you about death? What is death?
A: In nature there is no such thing as death but only a reshuffling of atoms. (Laughs)
Q: What happens?
A: The balance of energy in nature has to be maintained for some reason. I don't know why. So death occurs only when there is a need for the atoms to maintain the balance of energy in the universe. It is nothing but a reshuffling of atoms. This organism has no way of finding out that it was born at a particular point of time and is going to die at another point of time, and also that it is living at this moment and not dead. The knowledge we have of this living organism -- the birth, the death, and all that -- is absent here (pointing to himself).
Q: So you are saying you cannot know whether you are alive or dead?
A: No way. If you ask me the question, "Are you alive?" I would say that I am alive. Because the question is born out of the idea of how a living human being functions, acts, and thinks. That is an idea. So, naturally, if you ask me a question, "Are you alive or dead?" I would say I am very much alive, because that question brings all the knowledge that we have about the behavior patterns of living human beings. But we have no way of experiencing the fact that this is a living thing. You see, thought is dead. It is trying to capture something that is living, pulsating.
Q: So thought is trying to experience something it has no capacity to experience?
A: No capacity because it may be burnt in that process. If you touch a live wire, you are finished. So, thought doesn't want to touch it; it wants to play with it, and put on gloves and talk about it.
Q: Does the body have the understanding minus the thoughts?
A: The heart does not for a moment know that it is pumping blood. It is not asking the question, "Am I doing it right?" It is just functioning. It does not ask the question, "Is there any purpose?" To me, that question has no meaning. The questions, "Is there any meaning?" "Is there any purpose?" take away the living quality of life. You are living in a world of ideas.
Q: Is there life after death?
A: Anything I say would not be of much interest to people. When people ask me whether there is any such thing as reincarnation, my answer is that there is reincarnation for those who believe in it, and there is no reincarnation for those who do not believe in it. It is not a clever answer because it is the belief which is important. If you ask a fundamental question, "Is there any such thing as reincarnation as the other laws in nature like gravity?" my answer would be negative, a definite "No." It is not as much part of nature as gravity is. But if you want to believe that it is so, it is a different matter. The belief in reincarnation is born out of the demand that something will continue after your so-called death. It is the same mechanism which wants to know what will happen after death. For exactly the same reason you are asking the question, "Is there any meaning, is there any purpose in life?" For some reason that mechanism, that movement of thought, does not want to come to an end. You have seen people dying there. So, the belief that there is a center here, that there is a spirit here, that there is a soul here, is what is responsible for that belief that there must be something beyond. But if you want to know if there is anything beyond, you have to die now. When the question or belief about that comes to an end, death will take place here right now. Clinical death will take place. Then the question whether there is an afterlife would not at all arise, because the living organism has no way of knowing that it is alive.
Q: And you said that those who believe in reincarnation....
A: The belief has to go. The end of belief is death.
Q: So death ends all beliefs?
A: But you replace one belief with another, one illusion with another illusion. That is all that we are doing.
Q: I wanted to ask you another question....
A: The answer will be the same. (Laughs)
Go to Chapter 10