These messages are excerpted from a dialogue on the Cal Sailing Club email list, concerning berthing options for a Santana 22:

(note that the Cal Sailing Club email list is open to all, and highly recommended for those who would like to keep a finger on the pulse of what's *really* going on in the Berkeley Marina. Sign-up instructions are on the CSC website.)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000
From: Someone on the CSC email list
Subject: overhang

      Paul wrote:

      > There are lots of 20' berths available in the Berkeley Marina,
      > and the new policy will allow 20% overhang on most berths. So
      > 24' from bow rail to stern rail will be allowed in those 
      > berths.

Actually the words in the proposed rule change allows 20% of the boat's
length to overhang. That is 25% of the slip length. That is a 25 footer in a
20 foot berth. Or a 50 footer in a 40 foot slip.

There are some weasel words about only doing it where it is safe to do so.
IMHO, that is almost nowhere in the marina.The docks were originally layed
out to allow just less than twice the slip length between them. That allows
room to manouver with some margin of safety.

I just measured a couple of berths. It looks like the spacing is about 1-7/8
of the slip length. There is probably a little variation due to the fixed
sizes of the dock sections they use. The space between the 40 foot slips
O-500 and O-700 is 75 feet.  That is enough room for a manuverable boat to
turn with a safe clearence.

The long keel boats with little rudders have to do multiple back and forth
passes under power. One guy with a long keel boat in a downwind slip can
barrely make it when the wind is blowing hard on a summer afternoon. His boat
goes whatever way it wants to in reverse. He is pretty good about using the
lines to get it swinging the right way. He backs up all the way until he is
just about touching the boats behind him, puts in forward with the rudder
hard over and can just barely make the turn. If he is not making the turn and
has to backup, he ends up sideways and drifts into the other boats on the
downwind side. His crew scurry around with fenders and they get it back in
the slip and try again. Nobody even yells.

The new rules would allow 50 foot boats in those slips. That would make the
clearence between boats to be 75 - 20 = 55 feet. Only 5 feet longer than the
boats would be!! If any of the boats are tied up a little sloppily that goes
to zero.

The long keel boat described above is an extreme case, but very few boats
could be safely handled with only 10% of their length to spare.

Between the 25 foot slips of O-200 and O-400 there is 47 feet. The proposed
rule would allow 31.25 foot boats in those slips there would be only three
feet clearence. ( 47 - 2 * 6.25 - 31.25).

I guess the slips like O-007 which face the rock wall would be o.k. Of
course if there were a beamy twenty five foot power boat nosed into O-003
Paul wouldn't be able to turn his boat around anymore. And if there were a
whole row of them, he could not get in or out when the tide was low and he
had to tack to do it.

I am of the opinion that a boat length and a half is the bare minimum. If the
1-7/8 number holds true, that would allow only a maximum 1/8 of the boat
length of overhang. If the intention of the propsoed rule was 20% of the
length of the slip that still allows only slightly over a quarter of a boat
length clearence and this is not enough in a windy place like the Berkeley

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000
From: Paul Kamen 
Subject: Re: overhang

That's one of the "typos" I've already caught and marked up in the proposed
Marina Ordinance revision: It's supposed to be 20% of nominal slip length,
not boat length. At least that's how I understood the proposal when it was
first introduced.

You are way ahead of me on dock clearance measurements. If clearance is
really significantly less than 2.5 lengths in most of the marina, then we're
already squeezed in a lot tighter than I realized. A lot of docks won't be
allowed much overhang at all.

One of the reasons for allowing the overhang is that the marina intends to
get tough with the actual length measurement, counting bow pulpits, anchors
in bow rollers, tipped-up outboards, and such. For that to work they need to
allow some overhang - but we might be back to my original 10% proposal
instead of the 20% they ended up with. I was also pushing for allowing some
overhang for free to soften the change in policy and avoid cat-fights over
stretchy tape measures - but I lost that one with Harbormaster Brad.

Anyway, the good news is that the vacant 20 ft docks are mostly on the west
side of A-dock, where there's plenty of space between A-dock and the
launching ramp. So as far as finding a space for a Santana 22 is concerned,
we're still in pretty good shape.

paul Kamen
                                              -"Call me Fishmeal"-

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000
from: Someone on the CSC email list
To: Paul Kamen 
Subject: crash

Paul -

Do you have a drawing -- is the 1-7/8 ratio between the width of the channel
and the length of the slip used everywhere? What did they do on the new F
dock. To my eye those look more narrow.

Actually for 1/4 of the slip length overhang, the clearence is 1/8 of the
_slip_ length. It is only 10% of the boat length. In units of the slip

( 1-7/8   -  1/4  -  1/4  -  1-1/4 ) /( 1-1/4 ) = 1/10
(channel  - overhang - overhang - boat length) / ( boat length)

If your 25 foot boat were in a 37 foot wide channel with facing 20 foot slips
full of 25 foot boats there would be only 27 feet between those transoms. YOU
could do it. But I'll bet you would use the motor a lot more that you want
to. What about the guy that just bought a boat? What if it were a Flicka? Or
John Altberg in his single screw tugboat? Or even people in CSC Ensigns.

I hope that the idea is to allow this only is the odd corner, and maybe the
60' slips at the end of O-dock. I really think that ought to be in the words
of the regulation.

The people who designed the docks in the first place got it right.

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000
To: Someone on the CSC email list
From: Paul Kamen 
Subject: Re: crash

Here's the best drawing I have of the marina - although I'm not sure how 
accurately it can be scaled:


Hmm, maybe that Cal Boating standard was really 1.5, not 2.5. If most of the
berths are at 1-7/8ths, that leaves 3/16ths on each side to play with, or
18.75% of slip length. 12.5% if the spacing is 1-3/4. 

In any case it looks like Brad's made a lot of work for himself, unless 
we back off to 10% of slip length. 

Paul Kamen
                                              -"Call me Fishmeal"-