inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #51 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 9 Jan 05 03:46
permalink #51 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 9 Jan 05 03:46
WHOLE EARTH didn't survive because WHOLE EARTH was made of ink and paper. I'm looking forward to the day when WORLDCHANGING starts leaving some solid material traces, however. Books, T-shirts, coffee-cups, the usual website CafePress clutter, that's just not enough. I'm looking forward to the day when websites start designing and manufacturing material objects with computer fabrication. Man, that could happen tomorrow; I may do it myself! Americans think everything in the world is their fault. The UN is not some building in New York whose problems can be solved with American dollars and bayonets. It's the talking shop for everybody, and most people aren't American. The world is gonna have to solve its own problems. In the climate issue, for instance, the vast majority of the participants wish that the Americans would just shut up, go home and sulk. The world could likely solve that problem if the Americans would just put a cork in their mugs and stop pretending that nothing ever happens without them. BOLLYWOOD! Yeah! Let's talk Bollywood! And I don't want to talk "classics", either -- to hell with the Indian cinema that's actually good. I want to talk postnodern Bollywood NRI cinema, which is, like, a premier window on contemporary globalization. You know the coolest part of "Kabhi Khushi Khabie Gham?" It's when Hritik Roshan and Shah Rukh Khan are swanning around London and they are *the coolest two guys in London* -- they're sexier, richer, better dressed, and better dancers than the remnants of the British Imperial Raj. They also have cuter girlfriends and fancier cars. Man, that rocked my world. That flick is the CITIZEN KANE of the Bollywood family feudal epic. Karan Johar is a genius.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #52 of 74: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 05 10:39
permalink #52 of 74: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 05 10:39
Rohit will have to cover the Bollywod conversation; my taste runs to quirky indendent films and high-decibel, highly-immersive effects-laden blockbusters. We just watched "I, Robot," which was supposedly sci-fi, but I figure the film's robot-men are fantasy, same with Vernor Vinge's singularity, the creation of superhuman machines. What are your thoughts on the future of robot intelligence?
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #53 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 9 Jan 05 18:01
permalink #53 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 9 Jan 05 18:01
Frankly, artificial intelligence is hokum. That idea has just got no traction at all. I don't think we're a whit closer to robot intelligence now than we were 30 years ago. I'm a whit closer to California now, though; I left Austin this morning and I ought to be in Los Angeles in two days.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #54 of 74: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 05 19:05
permalink #54 of 74: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 05 19:05
So you must be driving, and we're hoping you can find connectivity along the way, especially in Las Vegas. Los Angeles has flood warnings out the wazoo, so you're on your way to a Viridian happening. The friendly neighborhood Drudge posted this link was "weather freakout": http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?p=storms&ei=UTF-8&datesort=1 I can see the headlines now: "World Ends; Texas is Spared."
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #55 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 9 Jan 05 19:33
permalink #55 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 9 Jan 05 19:33
So I see. "Los Angeles Fire Department personnel use heavy equipment to remove mudslide debris Sunday, Jan. 9, 2005, in Los Angeles. A powerful, plodding storm drenched California with another consecutive day of heavy rain turning roadways into rivers, knocking out power to thousands of homes and setting off mudslides and flooding that shut down highways. (AP Photo/Ric Francis)" *Yeah, welcome to sunny California, home of the Unnatural Disaster. Don't have a tsunami? Make your own! *It wouldn't kill me to hang out in El Paso another day. Carnitas Queretaro, man, that's the stuff!
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #56 of 74: It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Mon 10 Jan 05 02:53
permalink #56 of 74: It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Mon 10 Jan 05 02:53
Before you go completely off on a Bollywood rant, would you talk a bit about the emerging 'neobiological civilization', some of the tensions of canon panic and maybe even throw in a bit about the problems of digital archiving and what's being done on that front? Tomorrow Now just kicks! Safe driving and enjoy Pasadena.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #57 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Mon 10 Jan 05 04:45
permalink #57 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Mon 10 Jan 05 04:45
Oh man, come on, let me talk about Bollywood. It's wonderful to see how one can turn on Bollywood DVDs at parties and have them just clear the room. Sometimes Americans just flee; you can see the culture shock just hit them in a wave. Some of the Bollywood material I find of most merit is the stuff that actually clears the room *of Indians.* Like, say, "BOOM," directed by bad boy Kaizad Gustad and starring Mrs. Salman Rushdie. http://www.apunkachoice.com/scoop/chirpychat/20040113-0.html This crazily brilliant mess shot right by the heads of most anybody who might have appreciated it, but it's about Bombay supermodels, Bombay couture, human trafficking, prostitution, Arab wealth and multinational Muslim gangsters. It makes no sense, probably because it's trying so hard to tell the truth.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #58 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Mon 10 Jan 05 05:01
permalink #58 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Mon 10 Jan 05 05:01
You know what? Soon I'll be living just north of Hollywood! So I get to TALK FILM! I'll be in Tinseltown, LA-LA Land! Man, what a perk! Maybe I'll actually BECOME A SOUTHERN CALIFORNIAN!! What next, eh? I'm thinking maybe a macrobiotic diet and an eyelid tuck! You want to see the state of the art in modern Bollywood, check out this workhorse. This is a genuinely popular hit film made by some pros on the top of their game. "Main Hoon Na." http://www.planetbollywood.com/Film/MainHoonNa/ Bollywood is actually a wounded cinema in a lot of ways... it seems to have lost touch with its traditional audience and its revenues have been severely disturbed by changes in the means of distribution. The real key to the glory days of Bollywood were that cinemas were a place to get out of the Indian heat, so you could sell tickets to the air conditioning while presenting the movie as a kind of billboard. With better electricity services in India and home DVD players, Bollywood hit the rocks. But I enjoy watching its enterprising struggle; I think it's got a good chance to become the first truly post-national cinema, a form of expression by global emigres for global emigres. I don't consider myself a real rootin'-tootin' film critic, but I do know one. http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Island/3102/
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #59 of 74: It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Mon 10 Jan 05 05:27
permalink #59 of 74: It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Mon 10 Jan 05 05:27
Okay, you may rant. I followed your links to discover Veer-Zaara as well. I'm not sure I need another obsession at this point in my life, so I will bask in your exuberance.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #60 of 74: It matters who your daddy is. (debbie) Mon 10 Jan 05 08:52
permalink #60 of 74: It matters who your daddy is. (debbie) Mon 10 Jan 05 08:52
Just added Boom to my netflix list, thanks!
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #61 of 74: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 10 Jan 05 08:53
permalink #61 of 74: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 10 Jan 05 08:53
D'you have a top ten list of Bollywood films? And a top ten list of neobiological entities?
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #62 of 74: Dennis Wilen (the-voidmstr) Mon 10 Jan 05 09:03
permalink #62 of 74: Dennis Wilen (the-voidmstr) Mon 10 Jan 05 09:03
Well then, <bruces>, you are welcome to play your Bollywood DVDs at my place in the Hollywood Hills, the fabulous CastleVoid, and I promise you I won't leave the room. I'll even provide the tikka masala, et al!
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #63 of 74: from DAVE PHELAN (tnf) Mon 10 Jan 05 10:01
permalink #63 of 74: from DAVE PHELAN (tnf) Mon 10 Jan 05 10:01
Dave Phelan writes: Now that Richard A Clarke (former counterterrorism tzar) has weighed in with his (science?) fictional "transcript of the Tenth Anniversary 9/11 Lecture" (originally at http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200501/clarke , text mirrored at http://www.timsteil.com/blog.cfm?ID=35), and <http://www.crichton-official.com/messageboard.html>Michael Crichton has planted his flag firmly on the side of Climate Change deniers, is the gap between fiction and politics now so narrow that the Viridian Principle of 'walking through the walls of the knowledge guilds' is becoming normal? What other Viridian aims has the Pope-Emperor seen becoming real? Thanks Dave Phelan
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #64 of 74: Angus MacDonald (angus) Mon 10 Jan 05 12:33
permalink #64 of 74: Angus MacDonald (angus) Mon 10 Jan 05 12:33
[Also, does "BOOM" have the musical numbers?]
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #65 of 74: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 10 Jan 05 15:01
permalink #65 of 74: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 10 Jan 05 15:01
Speaking of Crichton, the scientists at RealClimate made two posts analyzing his "State of Fear" arguments and pointing out the errors and omissions: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=74 http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=76
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #66 of 74: Jamais Cascio, WorldChanger (cascio) Mon 10 Jan 05 16:01
permalink #66 of 74: Jamais Cascio, WorldChanger (cascio) Mon 10 Jan 05 16:01
Those are quite lovely takedowns, too -- it's pretty clear that the real climate scientists at RealClimate have no tolerance for Crichton's bleatings. RealClimate is at the top of my RSS feed. Although <jonl> and <emilyg> have quite ably represented WorldChanging here, let me offer my thanks and appreciation for your support of our efforts, Bruce. Just as a note for you all -- my co-conspirator at WorldChanging, Alex Steffen, will be on stage with Bruce at South by SouthWest this March. They'll be giving a joint keynote. Should be a blast.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #67 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Mon 10 Jan 05 19:18
permalink #67 of 74: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Mon 10 Jan 05 19:18
That's odd. A posting of mine vanished utterly. It was about my number one favorite Bollywood film, the cyberpunk technothriller QAYAMAT ("Apocalypse"). That must be a sign. I'm in Phoenix, Arizona right now. Tomorrow I'll be wading into flood-stricken Los Angeles. What with unloading the car and trying to get my academic ducks in a row, I can't imagine I'll have time to do this topic justice. I have the intuition that 2005 is going to be a whole decade packed into a year. They say that education's very broadening; well, by 2006 I expect to be broader than a six-lane highway. So long, and don't be a stranger. http://blog.wired.com/sterling/
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #68 of 74: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 10 Jan 05 20:22
permalink #68 of 74: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 10 Jan 05 20:22
The discussion will be here after you've unloaded, if you want to make your way back and continue. We were just getting warmed up.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #69 of 74: Autumn Storhaug (autumn) Mon 10 Jan 05 20:32
permalink #69 of 74: Autumn Storhaug (autumn) Mon 10 Jan 05 20:32
I'd like to thank Dave Phelan for sending the link to the Clarke 'lecture.' I'm going to pick up The Atlantic tomorrow.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #70 of 74: Sharon Lynne Fisher (slf) Mon 10 Jan 05 22:17
permalink #70 of 74: Sharon Lynne Fisher (slf) Mon 10 Jan 05 22:17
That's a pretty frightening story.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #71 of 74: from JOSH ELLIS (tnf) Wed 12 Jan 05 10:17
permalink #71 of 74: from JOSH ELLIS (tnf) Wed 12 Jan 05 10:17
Josh Ellis writes: I wish I'd known you were coming through Vegas. I would have bought you lunch in thanks for sending my Kangol hat back to me after I drunkenly left it at your house last SxSW bash. I've been thinking a lot about this whole notion of America collapsing with a whimper, not a bang; I've been reading a good bit about Rome recently as research for a novel, and I'm fascinated by the way that the Empire basically sputtered out when Constantine moved things to Byzantium. (I'm also quite interested in how the Byzantines managed to survive for almost 1100 years without making much of an impact on European culture, but that's a whole other conversation.) Here's the thing: I'm having a very hard time reining in my pessimistic assumptions that Americans are so locked into our current modus operandi that we're going to be totally incapable of jettisoning all the stupid behaviors and habits that have gotten us where we are. (I gather Diamond's book is about these same ideas, I'm gonna pick it up tomorrow). I know a lot of people who have really neat ideas on living in a sustainable fashion, but for every smart kid getting his or her tax credit on with solar panels, there's two dozen more who really, really want an SUV that makes the Humvee look like a lil' red wagon. And as far as I can tell, these people seem goddamn near unreachable. They don't know, they don't care, and who the fuck are you to mess with the party, anyway? I've always thought the most interesting thing about the Viridian movement is that it has the (presumably intentional) side effect of making sustainability sexy for consumers. My question is: do you, Bruce, see that as a primary way of reaching otherwise disinterested people? How do you get these folks to quit staring at the pretty bling bling and pay attention? Personally, I've about given up; I just ridicule them to amuse myself. But I'd like to believe there's a more constructive solution. Do you think it's possible for us to collectively hit the brakes? Or do you think we're going to have to have a nasty full-on collision before we wake the fuck up? Also: you were talking about Americans being forced to live the way the rest of the world does. I lived in Turkey when I was a kid, which was a nice eye- opening experience for a disenfranchised son of suburbia. Do you think it would come right down to Kurdish-style encampments in Central California? I tend to think America is so chock full of consumer products that we'd have at least some sort of cushion -- Turks can't go down to Wal-Mart and buy ultralight ergonomically-designed six man pup tents, whereas we can. What sort of goofy post-imperialist scenario do you see as being most likely to play out in America? Josh Ellis
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #72 of 74: from KAMRAT TUPKO (tnf) Fri 14 Jan 05 11:47
permalink #72 of 74: from KAMRAT TUPKO (tnf) Fri 14 Jan 05 11:47
Kamrat Tupko writes: Dear Bruce, I have a bunch of questions for you. First one concerns media. You say 'an email list at all seems kind of archaic now'. But it seems that with your list you obtain a different feel, flavour, style, and thus effect than with your blog for instance. And when you ask 'why not RSS feed?' this reminds me of a time when you said that there will be no RSS feeds on your blog and we all have to live with it. So what's your take on this now, maybe not on RSS itself, but on the general craziness with all sorts of online publishing schemes. I could ask, "Why don't you start posting to a wiki??", I guess. I felt once that with your blog you were saying that such issues don't really matter. But I'm not so sure anymore. But I'd rather ask, on this subject, what are you doing with your blog? That is, what is its flavour, style, feel and thus effect? Answering my own question (!), I think that you are doing an utterly crazy thing: you are showing us that the Internet, once thought of as so strange by being detached from the world, is actually rather a receptacle for the strangeness that's already here, in the world, and it's evenly distributed! I see you doing this with your musica globalista section, with your MMORPGing guestblogger, with your shots of Milan and Balkan. But then, I would ask, don't you worry this is skin deep, that this is a level of experiencing different cultures comparable to feeling very multicultural because you dine at a different ethnic restaurant each day? I remember you posting about obscure Polish movies and, with all due respect, was unsure how close that got anyone to getting that stuff (as in the phrase, 'get it?') - if that ever was the goal. Or is the blog just your wunderkammer, of the sort proposed by Dery, whom you recently linked to? This pushing of an non-American world through the blog to a presumably mostly American audience, I see it as a counterpoint to situations like this conversation, where the subject is 'state of the world' but the talk often slips to highly local issues located somewhere between Austin and Hollywood Hills. How curious! You seem to be saying, beware, the Internet is the world is the crazy great different place about the existence of which one might forget!!! Is that it, do you feel Internauts in the US need to be reminded that there are great, crazy, popular things going and they nevertheless have no idea that they exist? But what interests me the most is you and Eastern Europe. What's your take on the region? I notice you spend a lot of time in the Balkans, which to me are a mix of Yugonostalgia, war craziness and new media savvy. They are so lucky, with all their media centers. And the further North you go, the less of them you see, and once you get to Poland, things in the 'getting the new media' category start to look quite bleak. And then there's the Baltic and you have to stop. We're the country with the most expensive telephone and internet connection prices in Europe, maybe even in the world? So I'd like to know what's your take on the Balkan affinity with the new media. Smart people say Poland is so big, agricultural, catholic and traditional that the situation is quite hopeless. It's hard for us to learn from places like the US, but maybe there's a lesson to be learnt closer, in the Balkans? And then there's the environment. Would you agree that that's an even more hopeless issue to deal with in Eastern Europe? What is the right style, do you have a bag of tricks for preaching Viridianism in Eastern Europe? Yours, Tupko.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #73 of 74: Emily J. Gertz (emilyg) Fri 14 Jan 05 12:40
permalink #73 of 74: Emily J. Gertz (emilyg) Fri 14 Jan 05 12:40
Wow. Truly hope Bruce circles back around to answer even a tenth of that! "...the Internet, once thought of as so strange by being detached from the world, is actually rather a receptacle for the strangeness that's already here..." is a lovely observation. A lot of us got quite invested in the idea of the internet as an "other space," back in the 1990s. But I was wrong. Things are really getting interesting *now* when it's becoming a utility intead of an oddity.
inkwell.vue.234
:
Bruce Sterling: State of the World 2005
permalink #74 of 74: Bruce Sterling (jonl) Sat 15 Jan 05 04:26
permalink #74 of 74: Bruce Sterling (jonl) Sat 15 Jan 05 04:26
(from jonl: I sent Kamrat Tupko's message to Bruce via email, and got this response:) I have a bunch of questions for you. *Those sure are a lot! I'm now in California and being overwhelmed with administrivia -- I need a to-do list just for my to-do lists. First one concerns media. You say 'an email list at all seems kind of archaic now'. But it seems that with your list you obtain a different feel, flavour, style, and thus effect than with your blog for instance. *Yessss? And when you ask 'why not RSS feed?' this reminds me of a time when you said that there will be no RSS feeds on your blog and we all have to live with it. *My blog's run by Tripod! Live with THAT! So what's your take on this now, maybe not on RSS itself, but on the general craziness with all sorts of online publishing schemes. I could ask, "Why don't you start posting to a wiki??", I guess. I felt once that with your blog you were saying that such issues don't really matter. But I'm not so sure anymore. *It's all about "cognitive loads" and "opportunity costs." I could explain that, but, well, first it's too hard to think about, and, uh, I'm busy doing something else right now. But I'd rather ask, on this subject, what are you doing with your blog? *At the moment, it seems to be mostly, uh, therapy. That is, what is its flavour, style, feel and thus effect? Flavour: astringent Style: autodidactic hodgepodge Feel: radically and globally scattered Effect: I get a surprising amount of sympathetic email Answering my own question (!), I think that you are doing an utterly crazy thing: you are showing us that the Internet, once thought of as so strange by being detached from the world, is actually rather a receptacle for the strangeness that's already here, in the world, and it's evenly distributed! *What's crazy about THAT? It's dead obvious! I see you doing this with your musica globalista section, with your MMORPGing guestblogger, with your shots of Milan and Balkan. But then, I would ask, don't you worry this is skin deep, that this is a level of experiencing different cultures comparable to feeling very multicultural because you dine at a different ethnic restaurant each day? *I'm in Los Angeles, man! People here do that routinely! I remember you posting about obscure Polish movies and, with all due respect, was unsure how close that got anyone to getting that stuff (as in the phrase, 'get it?') - if that ever was the goal. *Watch that movie! I promise I understand modern Poland! Or is the blog just your wunderkammer, of the sort proposed by Dery, whom you recently linked to? This pushing of an non-American world through the blog to a presumably mostly American audience *Why presume that, "Kamrat Tupko"? I see it as a counterpoint to situations like this conversation, where the subject is 'state of the world' but the talk often slips to highly local issues located somewhere between Austin and Hollywood Hills. How curious! *The specific IS the universal, man! You seem to be saying, beware, the Internet is the world is the crazy great different place about the existence of which one might forget!!! Is that it, do you feel Internauts in the US need to be reminded that there are great, crazy, popular things going and they nevertheless have no idea that they exist? *OF COURSE I want to tell people about crap they never heard of before! I'm a science fiction writer, I'm not some *&*^$%% televangelist! But what interests me the most is you and Eastern Europe. What's your take on the region? *"Transition To Nowhere." I notice you spend a lot of time in the Balkans, which to me are a mix of Yugonostalgia, war craziness and new media savvy. They are so lucky, with all their media centers. *And those war criminals and the cruise missile damage, man, who couldn't envy 'em? And the further North you go, the less of them you see, and once you get to Poland *Been there. things in the 'getting the new media' category start to look quite bleak. And then there's the Baltic and you have to stop. *One word: "E-Stonia." We're the country with the most expensive telephone and internet connection prices in Europe, maybe even in the world? So I'd like to know what's your take on the Balkan affinity with the new media. Smart people say Poland is so big, agricultural, catholic and traditional that the situation is quite hopeless. It's hard for us to learn from places like the US, but maybe there's a lesson to be learnt closer, in the Balkans? *Just jail some mafiosi and keep your birth rate up! You'll pull through! Just thank the Pope's God that you're not Russia, Ukraine or Belarus! And then there's the environment. Would you agree that that's an even more hopeless issue to deal with in Eastern Europe? What is the right style, do you have a bag of tricks for preaching Viridianism in Eastern Europe? *Stay tuned...
Members: Enter the conference to participate. All posts made in this conference are world-readable.