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Hospice Today - and Tomorrow
permalink #76 of 103: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Thu 10 Mar 16 08:36
permalink #76 of 103: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Thu 10 Mar 16 08:36
It's the same nationally, because it goes by Medicare guidelines. If a doctor signs a piece of paper saying that the patient has a terminal condition and appears to have less than six months to live, that triggers hospice.
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Hospice Today - and Tomorrow
permalink #77 of 103: Nancy Montgomery (nan) Thu 10 Mar 16 10:16
permalink #77 of 103: Nancy Montgomery (nan) Thu 10 Mar 16 10:16
So if you tell a doctor you want hospice for your loved one, the doctor can say no, and then you can't get it?
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permalink #78 of 103: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Thu 10 Mar 16 14:26
permalink #78 of 103: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Thu 10 Mar 16 14:26
You can go to another doc.
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Hospice Today - and Tomorrow
permalink #79 of 103: shannon (vsclyne) Thu 10 Mar 16 14:28
permalink #79 of 103: shannon (vsclyne) Thu 10 Mar 16 14:28
And in that particular scenario, go there immediately!
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permalink #80 of 103: Cynthia (peoples) Thu 10 Mar 16 18:02
permalink #80 of 103: Cynthia (peoples) Thu 10 Mar 16 18:02
Just catching up on this excellent conversation. I've had experience with hospice from a couple of different angles, so I wanted to talk about how MY expectations of what hospice provides changed as I grew to understand the program better. My dad, who died of pancreatic cancer some 25 years ago, was on hospice for the six short weeks he lived after diagnosis. I was frustrated with the service because I didn't really understand what they could and could not do. I felt ... uh ... well, like my dad was not getting all the care he should have from them. My mother, who broke world records with her lengthy battle against Alzheimers -- it won but it took twenty-one years -- was entered into the program four times over a span of about nine years. The first three times she was in hospice, she ended up getting better so they released her from the program. Getting out of hospice by NOT dying is called "graduating." It wasn't until her 4th enrollment that she stopped "graduating" and finally passed. I like to tell people that by the time she died, she'd earned a doctorate in hospice. I also spent a few years working for a homecare agency as a caregiver for the elderly. For a while the agency had me working as a private hire with an old woman on hospice. Though I wasn't an employee of hospice, I interacted with the hospice staff that came and went while I was sitting with this old woman. With each engagement with hospice, I came to appreciate their work more. Of *course* they can't do 24/7 care, there's simply not the budget for that kind of cost in hospice. But boy oh boy, they really can do a lot. Obviously, there's the pain relief they can provide, and these days that's huge! Recent legislation clamping down on opiod prescriptions has made it nightmarish for people in pain to get relief. Hospice cuts right through all that legal red tape that would hobble a family member trying to get necessary pain meds for a dying loved one. It's not just about pain control, though. There are aides who will come give the patient a gentle, soothing sponge bath. In my mom's case, there was a chaplain who'd always sing to my mother when she visited. There were even volunteers who'd read to her, or just sit with her, holding her hand and stroking her hair. So to me, the greatest thing about hospice is that it sees the patient as a whole human being, not a weak heart, a set of failing kidneys or a brain that's barely working anymore. The kindness and generosity of heart of all the hospice people I've encountered has been remarkable.
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permalink #81 of 103: Cynthia (peoples) Thu 10 Mar 16 18:11
permalink #81 of 103: Cynthia (peoples) Thu 10 Mar 16 18:11
Oh, and upthread here, <gail> talked about setting up an Advanced Directive. That's a good thing to have, but even better is a POLST: wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician_Orders_for_Life-Sustaining_Treatment
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permalink #82 of 103: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Thu 10 Mar 16 19:26
permalink #82 of 103: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Thu 10 Mar 16 19:26
Thanks for that perspective, Cynthia. So that makes three of us who had experience with hospice 20 to 25 years ago and felt it was lacking. I guess something - and I'm thinking it was competition and market forces, maybe Medicare too - happened to give us the full service we see today.
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permalink #83 of 103: Lena via lendie (lendie) Thu 10 Mar 16 19:47
permalink #83 of 103: Lena via lendie (lendie) Thu 10 Mar 16 19:47
I did a hospice internship as part of my Counseling Masters Degree in 1991. At that time, hospice was relatively little known. It was hardly the big business that it is now. It's my impression that hospice became seen as the cheaper way to manage deaths. The fact that it is more humane seems to me to have been a secondary motivation. My impression was that the quality of hospice care varied with the hospice, the team and the patient. There was tremendous burnout among the staff, it was worse and much less support was available for the lower level caregivers such as CNAs, etc, especially the homecare givers who were the most onsite for the most time. The services provided were the same as today. Perhaps there is more and better training now as well as more experience overall in the field.
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permalink #84 of 103: Cynthia (peoples) Sat 12 Mar 16 08:12
permalink #84 of 103: Cynthia (peoples) Sat 12 Mar 16 08:12
> three of us who had experience with hospice 20 to 25 years ago and felt it was lacking. < Actually, what I was trying to get at in my post above was that my expectations the first time around were unrealistic. I thought hospice would be providing a caregiver round-the-clock, that a hospice doctor would do a home visit, that hospice aides could be scheduled every single day. So when I found out that's not how it works, I felt frustrated. Second time I encountered hospice, I knew better what the parameters of the service would be. Also, when my father was put on hospice, my mother was the one who met with the hospice worker who explained what would be provided. She was in such a deep fog of grief that I don't think she remembered much of the meeting. When I invoked hospice for my mother, I learned firsthand how thorough the initial meeting is.
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permalink #85 of 103: . (wickett) Sat 12 Mar 16 09:46
permalink #85 of 103: . (wickett) Sat 12 Mar 16 09:46
Hospice has great organizing capability, which includes managing expectations. I wish such thoroughness and coordination informed medical care throughout the life cycle.
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permalink #86 of 103: Michael C. Berch (mcb) Sat 12 Mar 16 11:27
permalink #86 of 103: Michael C. Berch (mcb) Sat 12 Mar 16 11:27
I have to say, while I appreciate the hospice movement and its goals, my own up-close-and-personal experience with it (my dad's final illness) was not great, and was very much a contrast to previous experiences (at a greater distance). In the early 1990s, several friends -- not close friends but more like friendly acquaintances -- spent their last days at Coming Home Hospice in San Francisco, a bricks-and-mortar facility in the Castro District. It was a pretty amazing place with exceptional care and kindness, and a staff dedicated to providing 24/7 care. (Almost all the residents were young or middle-aged men with AIDS.) It was independent then (I think) but is now part of CPMC, a large hospital with mutiple campuses. There was no sign of bureaucracy or institutional bullshit, it was just a loving, supportive environment with its own unique culture. I was a financial donor to their fundraising campaign and since I was part-owner of a condo across the street where I spent time with my then-girlfriend, I stopped in often even if I did not know any of the residents, and helped people learn to use the shared PC to access online services and BBSs. By contrast, the for-profit hospice service that I retained for my dad in the last two weeks of his life, in a nursing home, was somewhat of a disappointment. Based on Coming Home Hospice, I had very high expectations, but in reality, out of all the time the visiting hospice workers spent at his nursing home, about 20% of their hours were actually spent in his room providing assistance, about 60% was filling out paperwork by hand or on a laptop, and the last 20% chatting with the nursing home staff. I was seriously underwhelmed. There was one excellent staff member, an RN, who seemed to be genuinely concerned with my dad, and spoke at length to me about his condition and what to expect. The others simply came and went and could not wait to get out of there or else set up their laptop in the dining room to do paperwork. They seemed to be yet another institutional provider interested more in insurance billables than anything else. Just based on that, and the stories I've heard from others, it looks like something has happened to the hospice industry in the last 20 years, and it is not a positive development.
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permalink #87 of 103: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Sat 12 Mar 16 16:57
permalink #87 of 103: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Sat 12 Mar 16 16:57
Michael, comparing residential hospice to services provided to a patient in a facility is really comparing apples and oranges.
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permalink #88 of 103: Lena via lendie (lendie) Sat 12 Mar 16 16:59
permalink #88 of 103: Lena via lendie (lendie) Sat 12 Mar 16 16:59
<mcb>, in 20 years it became much more commoditized.
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permalink #89 of 103: Paula Span (pspan) Sun 13 Mar 16 07:44
permalink #89 of 103: Paula Span (pspan) Sun 13 Mar 16 07:44
All these experience speak to the diversity of local hospice organizations, in part. But in part, it may also reflect, as Lena points out, the way hospice has evolved from local nonprofits often started by volunteers -- and nonprofits still exist, of course -- to a big business. The growth in the past decade or so has been in the for-profit sector, and more specifically involves large national chains. The emerging research does indicate that for-profit hospices provide fewer services, though the difference isn't enormous. Which makes sense. Within a given geographic area, every hospice gets the same reimbursement from Medicare. So how do you squeeze a profit out of that? Especially since nonprofits benefit from fundraisers and philanthropy and memorial donations from grateful families, all far less likely with for- profits. The only way I can see to make a profit as a hospice is to a) pay your people less (never a great thing) or b) provide fewer services. The for-profits would argue that they benefit from economy of scale, and yes I suppose if you're buying supplies in vast quantities, you save some money there. But hospice care really doesn't involve a whole lot of supplies and equipment and is much more reliant on staff and their care.
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permalink #90 of 103: . (wickett) Sun 13 Mar 16 10:12
permalink #90 of 103: . (wickett) Sun 13 Mar 16 10:12
So, are do non-profit hospices provide noticeably better care than for- profit?
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permalink #91 of 103: Paulina Borsook (loris) Sun 13 Mar 16 10:53
permalink #91 of 103: Paulina Borsook (loris) Sun 13 Mar 16 10:53
i think, 'it depends'
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permalink #92 of 103: Paula Span (pspan) Sun 13 Mar 16 13:54
permalink #92 of 103: Paula Span (pspan) Sun 13 Mar 16 13:54
There hasn't been a lot of research, but what there is points to some differences. For instance, for-profits are more likely to bounce patients: http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/differences-in-care-at-for- profit-hospices/
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permalink #93 of 103: Jane Hirshfield (jh) Mon 14 Mar 16 10:42
permalink #93 of 103: Jane Hirshfield (jh) Mon 14 Mar 16 10:42
One of the earliest hospices in the U.S. was the one that still exists, Zen Hospice, in a small Victorian on Page Street in San Francisco. (The same group, as I think has been mentioned, also does hospice work in a public hospital ward, Laguna Honda.) An early PBS documentary featured this hospice--and it may be that the idea of full time care goes all the way back to this piece introducing the concept of hospice to Americans. It remains a kind of ideal, and the hospice, which long ago became an entity independent from S.F. Zen Center, who founded it, is still a place devoted to awareness, accompaniment, care in the fullest ways. It also trains volunteer hospice workers--the local monologuist, Josh Kornfield, has been performing a very moving piece about his time there, as their first artist-in-residence but also mostly as a person who volunteers. Still: there are only a few rooms in the building. What we want for all who must enter hospice is mostly far from what happens in that earliest example of the idea put into action. When my mother was very close to dying, two years ago now, the hospital's palliative care meeting with me consisted mostly of them pressuring me to authorize her transfer to a different location, a hospice to die in (had she died, it would have been within a day or two). Her own physician resisted this, knowing my mother in ways the hospital did not, and saying that if my other were to be stopped being treated, she could very well die in that hospital, moved out of intensive care but not out of the building. This whole experience, I think, was for me an example of the concept of "hospice" at its very worst. A hospital wanting to save money basically, and using the ideas of palliative care and hospice to pressure a family member to let them quit treatment. (My mother is still alive and doing well.) I feel as if I've seen the full range of possibilities at this point--the residential Zen Hospice with its small number of people receiving 24/7 care; a friend's recent death with hospice support intermittently present but invaluable; and the experience two years ago of that hospital meeting and how they mis-handled it. I am lucky to have had these multiple views. We can't help but generalize out from single experiences, but if we've had multiple ones, we can try to seek out the best, knowing it exists, and avoid the worst, knowing it exists. (I don't know what the places would have been like the hospital wanted to transfer my mother to--perhaps very good, for all I know, in different circumstances. But still, if a person is going to die very shortly, do we really want to force an ambulance ride on them when they could simply be taken to a different floor of the same building--and an ambulance ride whose very definition is that they are being shipped somewhere to die?
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permalink #94 of 103: . (wickett) Tue 15 Mar 16 20:32
permalink #94 of 103: . (wickett) Tue 15 Mar 16 20:32
Valuable first-hand experience and insights. Thanks, <jh>. Thank you, Paula, for your 2014 column noting some of the differences between for-profit and non-profit hospices. It's telling to read that article side-by-side with <jh>'s post.
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permalink #95 of 103: Lena via lendie (lendie) Tue 15 Mar 16 20:40
permalink #95 of 103: Lena via lendie (lendie) Tue 15 Mar 16 20:40
I wonder how much of the difference is really about management.
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permalink #96 of 103: Paula Span (pspan) Tue 15 Mar 16 23:47
permalink #96 of 103: Paula Span (pspan) Tue 15 Mar 16 23:47
Even where residential hospices exist, most are not like the Zen Center. They take patients mostly for a few days when families or caregivers can't manage their symptoms at home. You can't stay there for weeks. Probably there should be such places, or more such places. But let me note that when hospital staff or other medical types seem to be pressuring families to enroll in hospice, it's likely not for financial reasons. Hospitals make money, like doctors, by doing procedures and interventions and getting reimbursed for them. They would have made more money giving Jane's mother a feeding tube or putting her on a ventilator or transferring her to an ICU or at the least just keeping her in a hospital room. The reimbursement for hospice is fairly low and probably the least profitable option, for the institution. But overall, by avoiding ER visits and hospitalization and procedures, hospice care does save the health care system money as a whole, and that's a worthwhile thing.
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permalink #97 of 103: Lena via lendie (lendie) Wed 16 Mar 16 00:07
permalink #97 of 103: Lena via lendie (lendie) Wed 16 Mar 16 00:07
If they are Medicare or Medicaid patients the reimbursement is low, whether hospice is lower I don't know but one big difference is that hospice doesn't have the infrastructue and overhead costs that hospitals do.
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permalink #98 of 103: Jane Hirshfield (jh) Wed 16 Mar 16 09:55
permalink #98 of 103: Jane Hirshfield (jh) Wed 16 Mar 16 09:55
Perhaps I don't/didn't understand what was going on--it was an intense time and that conversation was the very first thing that happened after I arrived. She was in ICU and the hospital wanted me to authorize transferring her out of the ICU and out of the hospital to a "place she could die in comfort." Her physician insisted they keep treating her for a few more days at the level they were, and that is what worked. She was of course at her age a Medicare patient, but with some kind of supplemental insurance as well, if that applies. I don't know if what they were doing was about money or something else. All I know is that I felt shocked and pressured by the conversation, and that in retrospect it's clear what they wanted to do was something that would have resulted in my mother's death and not recovery. I'm not a life-at-all-costs-for-as-long-as-possible kind of person, I should add. Neither is my mother. I believe in hospice. But this was an infection, and treatable, and the two years my mother has had since then have been years I am glad she has had, and she is as well. The story isn't really about hospice at all--it's about the hospital and about how the idea and understanding of hospice can be so many-sided in our minds.
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permalink #99 of 103: Jane Hirshfield (jh) Wed 16 Mar 16 10:07
permalink #99 of 103: Jane Hirshfield (jh) Wed 16 Mar 16 10:07
To help return the conversation to hospice, I wonder how many other places there might be like the original Zen Center hospice? During the HIV-AIDS epidemic at its worst, there was another Zen-initiated hospice in the Castro, also residential. I wonder if full-care, small residential hospices may not somehow be linked to both real community and also perhaps spiritual communities. Mother Theresa's caretaking in India comes also to mind. Perhaps it takes something extra for people to be able to do/sustain this very particular kind of care-taking over the long term. I don't know how a person qualifies to enter the small residential Zen hospice building. It is not at all people from the Zen community. One long term Zen priest, the poet Philip Whalen, was for many months at the hospital ward arm of the program, in Laguna Honda Hospital, not in the smaller building he had spent so much of his life living near. If a person has a home and enough help from family or caretakers there, is that the primary hospice model these day? Or is there no primary model, just the mix of circumstances people find themselves in--in nursing homes, assisted living places, hospitals, homes, and dedicated hospice structures?
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permalink #100 of 103: Paula Span (pspan) Wed 16 Mar 16 17:30
permalink #100 of 103: Paula Span (pspan) Wed 16 Mar 16 17:30
Hospice stats say that most patients die at home "or in the place they call home," which includes assisted living and nursing homes. Here's how it broke down in 2014, the most recent year there are figures from the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization: Private residence: 36 percent (rounding off) Nursing home: 15 percent Other residential facility: 9 percent Inpatient hospice facility: 32 percent Hospital: 9 percent I'm actually surprised at how high the inpatient hospice percentage is.
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