inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #51 of 61: behind on BADGES! (obizuth) Mon 26 Sep 16 12:43
    
so much of the stuff we found HIGH-LARIOUS as teenagers is kind of 
horrifying now. i actually took a book out of my to-review pile because i 
saw that the author had written a piece about how Sixteen Candles totally 
holds up. if you think Sixteen Candles is not deeply problematic today, i 
do not want to read your book! racist, sexist, rapey. 

but i think it's a great conversation to have with older kids -- how humor 
evolves. i love the comedy people's talk about punching up vs punching 
down; making jokes at the expense of people with less power is uncool, but 
almost ANY subject can be fodder for jokes if it attacks the powerful 
rather than powerless. and that is what classic jewish humor is. this is 
one of my favorite chapters in my book, looking at so many jokes that are 
about the little guy winning at the expense of someone more dangerous and 
powerful. 

early jewish mom humor was not sexist. the (first) tv show called The 
Goldbergs, which was preceded by a radio show of the same name, was one of 
hte longest running and most successful shows in history and about a 
family led by a matriarch who was a busybody but also the subject rather 
than the object of the joke. that's because the actress who played mrs 
goldberg, gertrude berg, was also the creator and writer and exec producer 
of the show. but then we had generations of tv shows in which jewish 
mothers were meddling, and provincial and narrowminded and dim and shrill 
and whiny and demanding and stifling...and those shows were created almost 
entirely by young jewish men. i think mrs wolowitz on the big bang theory 
and mrs braslofski on south park are the last vestiges of this portrayal. 

now, it's interesting, we have young jewish female creators and 
showrunners: the broad city girls, lena dunham, rachel bloom of crazy 
ex-girlfriend and jill soloway of transparent all come to mind. and their 
portrayals of jewish mothers are much, much more nuanced. not entirely 
positive, because where's the humor there, but not these shrewish 
cartoons.  
  
inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #52 of 61: Dodge (dodge1234) Mon 26 Sep 16 14:28
    
Everybody Loved Raymond wasn't about a Jewish family but had the
worst meddling mother I've ever seen. I got to where I just couldn't
watch the show for all the stereotype characters who weren't very
nice.

I know what you mean about Mrs. Wollowitz, tho. 
  
inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #53 of 61: Dodge (dodge1234) Mon 26 Sep 16 14:54
    
Actually, thinking a bit. Given a choice between Ray's mom and Mrs.
W, I'd pick Mrs. W. 
  
inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #54 of 61: Amy Keyishian (superamyk) Mon 26 Sep 16 16:17
    
mrs. braslovski at least does that awesome dance in the hanukkah
video. 
  
inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #55 of 61: Amy Keyishian (superamyk) Mon 26 Sep 16 16:20
    
I was just having a convo with a new mom friend about how she is NOT
a believer but wants her children to be instilled with Jewish
values. I think you talk about this in the book, but it is literally
100 degrees in the bay area and I literally have stinging sweat in
my eyes, so I cannot go re-read to see. also my strange doaughter
(okay, they are both strange) is doing some sort of underpants
marcel marceau shadowbox performance that is distracting.

but: talk to me about "cultural jews" (which is a term I hate for my
own reasons) and how to talk about instilling these values using
traditiooooooooooon! tradition! tradition! and/or the G-d part. 

flegh. 

seriously y'all need to read this book just for the anecdotes. so
funny. 
  
inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #56 of 61: behind on BADGES! (obizuth) Tue 27 Sep 16 12:23
    
her character in Everybody Loves Raymond was not Jewish, but Doris Roberts 
sure was! and there is that specifically Jewish speech pattern, you know? 

i gotta read this, btw -- bookmarked it today. 
<http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/why-linguists-are-fascinated-by-the-ameri
can-jewish-accent?utm_source=Boomtrain&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20160927&
bt_email=snarly@snarly.com&bt_ts=1474984170102>
why linguists are fascinated by the american jewish accent!

there's also been a lot of research on jewish conversational patterns -- 
we tend to interrupt more than other groups, but we think that shows we 
are LISTENING and AGREEING. other people are like UH WILL YOU LET ME TALK. 
(i did an interview for the book with an irish radio show, and i used to 
work in daytime tv here where the worst thing in the world is dead air, so 
i would start to answer before the guy finished the question, and agree 
with him mid-point, and he'd JUST STOP TALKING. i started to realize ohhhh 
even tho the irish are animated talkers, they DO NOT INTERRUPT the way the 
jews do! a jewish friend who is married to an irishman listened to the 
interview online and emailed me afterward to say that her husband's family 
all had to get used to the way she talks, and now say "julia's not being 
rude -- she's just being julia." that is, JEWISH!)

i don't consider myself a terribly religiously observant person, tho i am 
sure others would disagree. i think "cultural judaism" can be a huge 
source of identification -- songs, humor, food, folktales. that is true 
for many faiths and enthnicities, not just the jews. and i think it's 
important for us jews to remember that eastern european judaism  is not 
the only flavor, just the one that gets the most press in the USA! 

i didn't write the book only for jews. it's about historical parenting 
strategies that i think work to raise accomplished and ethical kids. 
  
inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #57 of 61: Amy Keyishian (superamyk) Tue 27 Sep 16 12:34
    
Jew-lia! 

Yes, that is a good point to make -- this is not a book for the jews
by the jews. This book has great advice based in history, that just
happens to be Jewish. Goodness knows there's lots of parenting
advice from many cultures that we all like to take to heart,
especially when it is delivered in the form of shareable Facebook
memes. 

TL;DR, this book is for everyone, not just the Jews or the parents. 
  
inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #58 of 61: Julie Sherman (julieswn) Thu 29 Sep 16 11:10
    
I want to thank Amy, Marjorie and everyone who contributed to this
discussion over the past two weeks. The "official" discussion ends
now, but this topic will remain open indefinitely into the future if
anyone wants to make more comments. Thank you again to everyone who
contributed and go out there and raise your children to be mensches!
  
inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #59 of 61: behind on BADGES! (obizuth) Thu 29 Sep 16 17:46
    
thanks so much, julie and amy! 
  
inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #60 of 61: Tiffany Lee Brown's Moustache (magdalen) Tue 4 Oct 16 08:45
    

great conversation, thanks for letting us in on it!
  
inkwell.vue.491 : Marjorie Ingall Mamaleh Knows Best
permalink #61 of 61: paralyzed by a question like that (debunix) Sat 22 Oct 16 21:39
    
Still waiting for my copy from the library--there's a waiting
list!--but finally sat down and read the rest of the conversation,
and coming late to say I'm really looking forward to this.  We've
got a new generation of kids in the family and this may be my
holiday gift to their mothers.....
  



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