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Brain Hacking for Dummies
permalink #151 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Sun 4 Mar 18 07:48
permalink #151 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Sun 4 Mar 18 07:48
#149 "There was a time when I was intensely optimistic about the public square online. It is hard to be optimistic today. " Yes, we have come a long way from John Perry Barlow's Manifesto and cyberutopian hopes and dreams...The Commons has become a brawl, both bot and bully. Yet, I remain cautiously optimistic....in a New York kind of way :)
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Brain Hacking for Dummies
permalink #152 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Mon 5 Mar 18 13:00
permalink #152 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Mon 5 Mar 18 13:00
This is the 'formal' ending of our conversation with Roger McNamee. However, as long is activity the conversation continues :) Roger, thank you so much for your time, your generous spirit and interaction. This was a great conversation. Your inputs and responsiveness to questions and issues was fantastic. You made us think and you made us talk. All anyone can ask for any more. LOL. To all the 'readers' and WELLpern who jumped in, thank you so much. You really helped drive the content. I hope this was good for ya'll too. We titled this Brain Hacking for Dummies....and I think we hit that one fair and square. Now I am left with two questions. Am I the Dummie or the one who's brain is being hacked/or/both? A little of both, and I'm good with that :) This is one for the books. I am sure a lot of chatter will occur as well. ;)
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Brain Hacking for Dummies
permalink #153 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Mon 5 Mar 18 14:04
permalink #153 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Mon 5 Mar 18 14:04
Takeaway #2....if you (we) are not thinking for (y)(ourself(ves), then you are either Weird or Wired. (Anagrammers, feel free to play with those letters, I'll give you 'drew id' for free.) Let the hacking begin
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Brain Hacking for Dummies
permalink #154 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Mon 5 Mar 18 19:52
permalink #154 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Mon 5 Mar 18 19:52
Roger writes: "I have no interest in telling people how to live or what products to use." I didn't say you did. I think "2.1 billion Truman Shows" illustrates a kind of contempt for the people you say you want to protect. "My focus is on two things: protecting the innocent (e.g., children) from technology that harms their emotion development and protecting democracy from interference. I do not believe that tech companies should have the right to undermine public health and democracy in the pursuit of profits." Protecting "the innocent (e.g. children)" is *the standard line of moral panic engineers*. See, e.g., SEDUCTION OF THE INNOCENT, by Fredric Wertham. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredric_Wertham> I can't believe you guys just echo the same old tropes.
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permalink #155 of 193: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Mon 5 Mar 18 19:57
permalink #155 of 193: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Mon 5 Mar 18 19:57
"2.1 billion Truman shows" is about the medium, not about the people.
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permalink #156 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Mon 5 Mar 18 20:20
permalink #156 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Mon 5 Mar 18 20:20
Except it's not "about the medium." It's about what Roger thinks the medium represents to 2.1 billion users. Roger is under the impression that people only want to read what comforts them in a good Truman Show life. That's not impossible, but he hasn't shown it to be so. Plenty of people use FB and other social media to engage with differing opinions. As I've shown in the work I've done, the research on this issue is equivocal *at best* when it comes to supporting Roger's bald assertion that this is 2.1 billion Truman Shows. That's at best--considering everything on the assumption that Roger's on to something. But if you are more in tune with the research, you find that the "filter bubble" hypothesis is widely asserted yet rarely supported by empirical research. Keep in mind that this is, essentially, a rehash of a decades-old argument about the internet itself. (Just as "walled gardens" is a watered-down version of what the term used to mean.) There seems to be no evidence that Roger or anyone has made any effort to distinguish the current moral panic from any previous one.
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Brain Hacking for Dummies
permalink #157 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Mon 5 Mar 18 20:24
permalink #157 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Mon 5 Mar 18 20:24
Here's an example of weird thinking: <https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-to-fix-facebook-make-users-pay-for -it/2018/02/20/a22d04d6-165f-11e8-b681-2d4d462a1921_story.html?utm_term=.1ce6b 942f766> Making users pay for Facebook will somehow help users? Because instead of getting access to the features of Facebook for free they'll have to pay for them? Try making this argument about The New York Times. Hey, Times people, quit carrying ads and just fund yourself through subscriptions! What do you think happens? An outcome that benefits both the Times and its users?
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Brain Hacking for Dummies
permalink #158 of 193: Dodge (dodge1234) Mon 5 Mar 18 20:33
permalink #158 of 193: Dodge (dodge1234) Mon 5 Mar 18 20:33
The day FB makes me pay for their service is the day I cancel access.
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permalink #159 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Mon 5 Mar 18 20:36
permalink #159 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Mon 5 Mar 18 20:36
You're not just supposed to eat your greens--you should eat them only if you get them by paying for them.
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permalink #160 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Mon 5 Mar 18 23:22
permalink #160 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Mon 5 Mar 18 23:22
Meh. I don't really give FB or any of these sites that much of my attention or my response. They rarely resonate with my 'realities'. There is one aspect of where I see how folks can get all panicky, or want to be digital pundits...and get all 'yenta' about it. Too much drama for me. Don't like it in real space, don't like it in Virtual. And I don't think civilization is coming to an end as a result of either approach. Air, food and water, that's the matter that matters. The benefits I derive from Social Media are simply that, they are mine... Mike, I see your points, they are valid and make sense. And at another time or venue I might want to play ping pong and bat that all around with you. But not today and not in this conversation. Just another rabbit hole I don't wish to go down. Which sums up most of my feeling about the NET. Too many rabbit holes...where did all the carrots go? ;)
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permalink #161 of 193: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Tue 6 Mar 18 04:46
permalink #161 of 193: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Tue 6 Mar 18 04:46
People get what seems to comfort us whether it's what we want other stuff or not.
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permalink #162 of 193: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Tue 6 Mar 18 08:30
permalink #162 of 193: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Tue 6 Mar 18 08:30
Well one of the problems with Facebook is that *facebook* thinks people want to see things they already agree with. How would I tell facebook that I want to see news from reputable sites across the political spectrum? The only thing I can control is what posts I click on. There's no "show me intelligent conservative analysis" button.
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permalink #163 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Tue 6 Mar 18 09:27
permalink #163 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Tue 6 Mar 18 09:27
Here's how Roger, who likes his metaphor, put the Truman Show bit earlier in this discussion: "Facebook has 2.1 billion Truman Shows ... each person lives in a bubble tuned to their emotions ... and FB pushes emotional buttons as needed. Once it identifies an issue that provokes your emotions, it works to get you into groups of like-minded people. Such filter bubbles intensify pre-existing beliefs, making them more rigid and extreme. In many cases, FB helps people get to a state where they are resistant to ideas that conflict with the pre-existing ones, even if the new ideas are demonstrably true." I don't know who here reads my Facebook page, but I have a large, broad feed that has a lot of followers and subscribers. Nobody reads my feed to be comforted, as far as I can tell. And I don't log on to Facebook to be comforted. What's happened, it seems to me, is that the critics of Facebook begin with the assumption that everybody who approaches a social-media platform begins at some low level on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and never rises above that level. But there's no reason to believe that's universally true, or even true of most people. I found it telling how often tcn used the (unchallenged) words "sheeple" and "sheep" in reference to Facebook. Obligatory link: <https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html>
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permalink #164 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Tue 6 Mar 18 09:30
permalink #164 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Tue 6 Mar 18 09:30
By the way, the idea that people resist information that challenges their paradigms is not exactly new. It predates social media. But Roger thinks people (who apparently don't ever turn off or mute any smartphone notifications) are passive consumers of whatever the apps on their smartphones send. (Except, it must be said, for the enlightened critics who know better.)
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permalink #165 of 193: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Tue 6 Mar 18 10:28
permalink #165 of 193: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Tue 6 Mar 18 10:28
Citing yourself as a counterexample doesn't falsify Roger's point. Yes, it's possible to break through the bubble Facebook creates for you. If you're more knowledgeable and more aggressive than most users are.
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permalink #166 of 193: David Gans (tnf) Tue 6 Mar 18 10:58
permalink #166 of 193: David Gans (tnf) Tue 6 Mar 18 10:58
I use Facebook for a great variety of purposes, incliuding political discussions. I welcome argument, even as I reserve the right to delete violent or otherwise unproductive content. "I am here to learn," I often post.
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permalink #167 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Tue 6 Mar 18 14:42
permalink #167 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Tue 6 Mar 18 14:42
I hope we all are....I certainly learned a lot :)
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permalink #168 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Wed 7 Mar 18 05:39
permalink #168 of 193: Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Wed 7 Mar 18 05:39
"Citing yourself as a counterexample doesn't falsify Roger's point." That's why I didn't cite myself as a counterexample for the purpose of falsification of Roger's point. I will note, however, that Roger speaks of "2.1 billion Truman Shows." He's done so twice here. Now, unless I'm mistaken, he means the number 2.1 to represent the entire population of Facebook users. So it seems reasonable to conclude that Roger means to be understood as making what logicians call a "universal generalization." The thing about universal generalizations is that they are, in fact, subject to refutation by a single counter-example. (For example, the generalization that "all sheep are white" is refuted by the observation that "there is one black sheep.") So, if I wanted to, I certainly could cite my singular experience as a refutation of Roger's universal generalization. But, again, that's not my intention. If you assume that I think only of myself, maybe you infer that this is the only point I might be making. But let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that I'm assuming instead that there are lots of people who use Facebook and other platforms as I do--to find challenging and informative points of view and factual information rather than to find affirmations of self or confirmations of my existing paradigms. Because I do not fancy myself unique, it seems possible that there is, at least, a significant minority of Facebook users who don't create "information cocoons" (Cass Sunstein's term) or "filter bubbles" (Eli Pariser's term). If you've followed my reasoning so far, and if you provisionally agree that my hypothesis about nonconforming users is reasonable, then it's not too difficult to draw a further inference: that the problem of "information cocoons" or "filter bubbles" is not inherent in social-media platforms or in the incentives created by social-media advertising or in the addictive components of our smart handheld devices. If it were, then it would presumably have this effect even on most assertive, independently thinking, strong-minded individuals. Only a few six-sigma-degree individualists would escape! But the evidence that this is, in fact, the case, has not been presented here. What's happening instead is that people who are dismayed by the outcome of the Brexit referendum or the U.S. election are trying to find a single-bullet theory to explain why things didn't work out they way they'd expected. And social media are new, and they *definitely have been used by mischievous actors who want to skew political processes*, so it follows that the problem is rooted in technology generally or in social media or in smartphones in particular. Now, nothing I write here should be taken as arguing that social media aren't causing or magnifying harms. But it may well be the case, in fact, that some large subset of human beings create "filter bubbles" for themselves regardless of what media technologies they're using. That's not a good thing, and it's certainly worth figuring out how to fix that problem, but focusing on how that problem as a presumed phenomenon specific to social media perhaps focuses on a symptom of the human condition rather than a disease grounded in technology. In this context, then, the question is, what's the fix? And tcn has shown that some critics think meaningful reform, such as the platforms' adopting transparency measures regarding political ads. That's an idea worth exploring. There are other ideas as well. (I've experimented with the suggestion that turning my iPhone's palette to grayscale may make my phone less distracting, for example. That's an idea that, I think, came from the Time Well Spent guy. But, given that I'd turned off most push notifications anyway, my experience was more mixed than, perhaps, some people's have been.) But Roger, in his grief regarding Brexit and Trump, wants to kick the economic legs out from under Facebook's (and, incidentally, Google's and Bing's and Yahoo's) economic success. Algorithm-driven serving of ads is bad for you! It creates perverse incentives! And so on. It's true that some advertising algorithms have created perverse incentives (so that Trump's provocative ads were seen as more "engaging" and therefore were sold cheaper than HRC's). I think the criticism *of that algorithmic approach* is valid. But there are other ways to design algorithmic ad service, and it seems to me that the companies that have been subject to the criticisms are being responsive to them, even in the absence of regulation. Is advertising itself bad? Maybe it is! But that's a much larger question than the question about what to do with Facebook. It seems worth pointing out that journals we value (for example, I subscribe to the New York Times, the Washington Post, and Wired, among others) simply cannot exist without advertising. So this puts some social-media critics in the position of arguing that advertising is only good if it's like traditional print advertising, which isn't targeted at you based on your interests. In short, advertising may be seen to be good for us only when it's inefficient and wasteful and mostly uninteresting. That's an argument that deserves to be made, maybe, but it's not exactly an argument that anyone can be comfortable making. Are smartphones themselves bad? Maybe they are. Maybe we're better off with more boring devices (make grayscale mandatory! block all notifications!). But that seems fixable in straightforward ways. On the user end, turn off most notifications. (Maybe turn off location tracking too, but that's kind of handy for finding misplaced phones.) On the advertising end, maybe the default should be no notifications unless you opt-in for them. (I'm okay with that.) But none of this stuff necessarily addresses the social upheaval that led to Brexit or to Trump's election or the possible imminent departure of Italy from the EU. For that, I think you need to address more fundamental problems of democratic politics, such as teaching critical thinking. We actually do know how to teach critical thinking--we've got two or three thousand years of work on that project--but we've lacked the social will to teach it universally. I'd like to see that change. It seems to me that this is the only way that cranky individualist minority that's not easily manipulated by social media, or by traditional media, can become the majority.
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permalink #169 of 193: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Wed 7 Mar 18 07:36
permalink #169 of 193: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Wed 7 Mar 18 07:36
That could cause unrest.
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permalink #170 of 193: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 7 Mar 18 12:30
permalink #170 of 193: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 7 Mar 18 12:30
Thanks for that, Mike. It's very clear.
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permalink #171 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Wed 7 Mar 18 17:03
permalink #171 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Wed 7 Mar 18 17:03
<I'd like to see that change. It seems to me that this is the only way that cranky individualist minority that's not easily manipulated by social media, or by traditional media, can become the majority.> Pretty sure we are supposed to be the minority report.
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permalink #172 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Fri 9 Mar 18 08:40
permalink #172 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Fri 9 Mar 18 08:40
Huge MIT Study on Fake News (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/03/largest-study-ever-fake -news-mit-twitter/555104/) In short, social media seems to systematically amplify falsehood at the expense of the truth, and no oneneither experts nor politicians nor tech companiesknows how to reverse that trend. It is a dangerous moment for any system of government premised on a common public reality. It seems to be pretty clear [from our study] that false information outperforms true information, said Soroush Vosoughi, a data scientist at MIT who has studied fake news since 2013 and who led this study. And that is not just because of bots. It might have something to do with human nature.
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permalink #173 of 193: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Fri 9 Mar 18 09:24
permalink #173 of 193: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Fri 9 Mar 18 09:24
Well, at the simplest level, the truth often gets in the way of a compelling story line.
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permalink #174 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Sat 10 Mar 18 11:43
permalink #174 of 193: Ted Newcomb (tcn) Sat 10 Mar 18 11:43
LOL - almost always
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permalink #175 of 193: Lee Horowitz (pumshtok) Wed 14 Mar 18 15:26
permalink #175 of 193: Lee Horowitz (pumshtok) Wed 14 Mar 18 15:26
Hmmmm....I thought it was usually the other way around. Its the story line that often trumps (no pun) the truth.
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