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permalink #26 of 250: Malka Older (malka) Tue 5 Jan 21 15:26
permalink #26 of 250: Malka Older (malka) Tue 5 Jan 21 15:26
I've been thinking about what this moment feels like, and in the midst of the incessant, incremental, frenetic pace of news stories and mediated events, it feels poised between the decisive action and the impact. The election is over, the votes are counted, and yet we are still waiting to see what will happen. The vaccine exists, but we are waiting to know if distribution and roll-out will be successful, waiting to get it ourselves, waiting to see the change in the numbers we follow from day to day. After years of agonizing and unnecessary brinksmanship, there is a Brexit deal, and we wait to see what it will mean. There is a degree to which this sense of anticipation, of waiting for a narrative twist or pay-off, is linked to the continual plumbing of world events for spectacle. It's a part of the gruesome will-he/ won't-he/ he-did/ oh-there-were-no-consequences that has served us so poorly over the past four years. In fact, one of the questions for the coming year is what will happen if the pace of news, or at least the pace of outrage, slows to a trickle. But this extended wait is also scratching at our trust in the foundational narratives of our societies, because the uncertainty of this gap shouldn't exist. There's always a delay between the election and the inauguration, but usually it's completely without tension. The movie is supposed to end once the vaccine is engineered, not because the logistics of distribution aren't difficult, but because their outcome should be as boring and predictable as an inauguration ceremony. This pause is the gap between intention and action; between the stories we tell about ourselves and what we are. Will we manage to do what we know we should? Are our countries democracies, after all? Has our advanced science and medicine saved us? No and not by itself, of course; these answers have been clear for a while. But the gap in the surface storytelling may make it harder to pretend.
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permalink #27 of 250: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Tue 5 Jan 21 17:53
permalink #27 of 250: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Tue 5 Jan 21 17:53
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
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permalink #28 of 250: Marc Brubaker (jonl) Wed 6 Jan 21 00:03
permalink #28 of 250: Marc Brubaker (jonl) Wed 6 Jan 21 00:03
Via email from Marc Brubaker: re: the climate crisis, I've seen some recent news (via 350.org's social media https://cleantechnica.com/2021/01/04/net-zero-emissions-stabilize-climate-quic kly-uk-scientist/ ) stating that a scientific consensus has started to form that reaching net-zero carbon emissions would cause heating to level off and stabilize within a decade. It doesn't reduce the difficulty of achieving net-zero emissions (and doesn't account for the many interrelated crises underway such as sea levels rise, ocean acidification, deforestation, species dieback, etc., etc.), but this does seem like some degree of good news -- takes the edge off, at least a little. re: the "bullshit" list -- not sure how "Neoliberalism ruined ... " fits in there...
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permalink #29 of 250: George Mokray (jonl) Wed 6 Jan 21 00:07
permalink #29 of 250: George Mokray (jonl) Wed 6 Jan 21 00:07
Via email from George Mokray: Most of this year, we seem to be living in a mash-up of two Jack London novels: The Iron Heel and The Scarlet Plague. More recently, the behavior of the Trumpublican Party has resembled a mash-up of two Edgar Alan Poe stories: The Masque of the Red Death and Hop Frog. As per regenerative agriculture / regenerative everything My approach* to climate change is 100% renewables ASAP zero emissions economy ASAP carbon drawdown ASAP geotherapy (not geoengineering) ASAP Resources: Healing Earth: An Ecologist's Journey of Innovation and Environmental Stewardship by John Todd https://www.northatlanticbooks.com/shop/healing-earth/ Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase https://www.crcpress.com/Geotherapy-Innovative-Methods-of-Soil-Fertility-Resto ration-Carbon-Sequestration/Goreau-Larson-Campe/p/book/9781466595392 Biodiversity for a Livable Climate has been organizing conferences on various aspects of geotherapy over the last few years. Subjects have covered not only soil carbon sequestration and regenerative agriculture or forestry but also freshwater and ocean systems, biodiversity and ecological design . http://bio4climate.org/conferences/ Some climate scientists are beginning to see some data that after zeroing out greenhouse gas emissions the atmosphere may restore itself much more quickly than previously thought. Geotherapy, using ecological systems to repair the damage homo sap sap (that sap) has done, also produces quicker than expected results, at least in some instances. * http://solarray.blogspot.com/2018/12/my-approach-to-climate-change.html
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permalink #30 of 250: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 6 Jan 21 01:25
permalink #30 of 250: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 6 Jan 21 01:25
I agree with Dr Malka about the problematic aspects of the public getting all gosh-wow and tech-grateful about the almighty vaccines, but even though I'm personally grateful that the vaccines exist, I don't think the vaccines will be perceived as glamorous tech miracles that demonstrate our dominance of nature. I think the vaccines will mostly be a source of anxiety, that their manufacture, rollout and deployment will be extensively and embarrassingly bungled, that they won't work perfectly or permanently, and that new strains of the coronavirus will evade them. So my bet is that they'll be seen by the public as more as a painful nuisance and a grim necessity than a shiny silver bullet. Also, the anti-vax people are entrenched, and Bill Gates, who is one of the more morally-attractive Big Tech oligarchs, has been extensively vilified for his efforts to do good. Even if Bill pulled a Jimmy Carter and spent the rest of his life personally injecting the needy, the folklore about Bill as a Vaccine Microchip Nosferatu is, in my opinion, permanent. Bill's good works may have salved his conscience but his reputation is befouled with oceans of rumor and slander. That's irrational, but it's emotively powerful, and these new forms of superstition are inherent in the architecture of participation in social media. The networks breed the nuttiness we have; they're hotbeds of rumor and crowd-mania; we're enduring the direct consequences of what we built here.
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permalink #31 of 250: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 6 Jan 21 01:26
permalink #31 of 250: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 6 Jan 21 01:26
I see a lot of stark surveillance-capitalism fear from people who are nowhere near so blatantly nuts as antivaxxers, but similarly buffaloed in coming to terms with existent reality. They'll compile dreadful lists of the many cruel ways in which Amazon numbers every hair on your head, but they don't seem to notice that Amazon's own employees will drop dead and Amazon doesn't notice or care. They also forget that Jeff Bezos got doxxed for a love affair and it ruined his marriage, estranged his kids and cost him the largest divorce settlement in the history of the universe. The masters of surveillance are among its biggest victims. Also, if the surveillance is so intense, fearsome and all-encompassing now, then why is public life so obviously loose, corrupt and poorly organized? Shouldn't grifters be immediately outed for all their dirty money, because of something they said while Alexa was snooping? If surveillance capitalism and its Big Data algorithms worked as well as alarmists feared they worked, then our world ought to be one of neatly freeze-dried technocratic police-state order, but that's not what daily life actually looks like under modern social conditions. Sure, everything is sorta-kinda surveilled, but there's no sense of decency or propriety, and we're a lot more piratical than we are panoptical.
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permalink #32 of 250: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 6 Jan 21 01:27
permalink #32 of 250: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 6 Jan 21 01:27
However, I think that this year the surveillance debate will improve. I see hints of some new common-sense emerging. It's a little bit like pitifully afraid of wicked spies under the bed, but when you're actually governed by wicked spies, as the Russians are, you're less irrationally respectful of them, and you get a better understanding of their inherent limits as power-players. Not that the problems go away, mind you; you just get a better grip on the existent situation. Little Tech used to move fast and break things, but Big Tech moves slow and still breaks things, so they make a much easier target than they once did. And, they know that. So they're adjusting but not nimbly. They move like elephants now.
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permalink #33 of 250: Christian De Leon-Horton (echodog) Wed 6 Jan 21 06:02
permalink #33 of 250: Christian De Leon-Horton (echodog) Wed 6 Jan 21 06:02
I'm wondering why "crypto-" didn't make the bullshit list, particularly with regard to "cryptocurrency" and its supposed disruptive effects. Is it because it's not bullshit, or that it fits under heading "disrupt the industry," or for some other reason?
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permalink #34 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 6 Jan 21 06:15
permalink #34 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 6 Jan 21 06:15
[<echodog> posted while I was composing. In WELL terminology, we say that he "slipped," i.e. his post slipped in ahead of mine. My post was inspired by Bruce's latest.] The established technology infrastructure we've grown over the last three decades is rather chaotic, I think by design. The Internet was built to support decentralization and innovation at the edges, and that's been happening. And it was built from a kind of political utopian idealism that seemed valid enough at the time, because initial users were nerds who were innocent of the potential evil ways the technology might be leveraged as it became mainstream. In fact, many of us never suspected that it would mainstream as successfully and pervasively as it has. The garden of Eden has been growing and spreading over the planet, and filling with all sorts of weeds and thorns, and opportunistic beasts creeping through the understory.
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permalink #35 of 250: Craig Maudlin (clm) Wed 6 Jan 21 11:19
permalink #35 of 250: Craig Maudlin (clm) Wed 6 Jan 21 11:19
My question for Bruce: What's the point of calling bullshit on the long list of terms in post <13>? Are these the topics you feel are no longer deserving of attention, or it this a call to get busy with our 'composting' efforts?
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permalink #36 of 250: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 6 Jan 21 12:16
permalink #36 of 250: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 6 Jan 21 12:16
Good question, Craig. Wondering about what Jon said about the Internet being "built from a kind of political utopian idealism." The people I found most interesting in the 90s - present company in many cases very much included - were hopeful about changing the world in ways that included and supported everyone. Somehow. Maybe slightly varied flavors of Utopia. But we all knew the infrastructure threading us together came from military research as well as hippie hacker homebrew activists, and always had phone companies and other big money players salivating over it. So power and profits were never much of an afterthought, no matter the joys of freely playing with like minded people in corners of the then largely unknown networks. I have been doing pandemic cleaning, tossing a lot of three-hole-punch binders and proceedings from conferences from that decade. The fanciful and aspirational voices were a minority. Some of them were sincere and rousing but slightly ridiculous at the time and more so in retrospect. My first time speaking to a technical body was at a IEEE gathering facing a roomful of engineers with pocket protectors - I respected that! I thought there would be worthwhile cultural crossover. But values are deep. Respect for a better salary and more opportunity for self and family might be deeper. Whatever the brilliant engineers heard that day about designing privacy and inclusion into the applications to come was certainly an afterthought to the presentations of new ideas and fresh patents for presenting streaming entertainment, and visions of well-paid work leading to profitable enterprises. Big corporate money was always in the invisible room. And I know racism and misogeny were there along with the dreams and visions of harmony. But that's looking backwards. Old timers. at the very least, have no excuse for being naive about opportunistic beasts. At some point, from someone's point of view, we are all such beasts. At some time we are acting for ourselves (or for the survival of our children) and all of us are thinking we might as well get good at it. Short of utopia, how do we get to a mostly benign and relatively cooperative human condition? Do most people even want that, or is it more exciting to fight and even die for your community/religion/nation/compound/cadre/tribe? Wrapped in glory and egged on as heroes... Anyway, about that utopian idealism. Long may that vision be part of the blend. But not a blinder to all the other forces at play.
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permalink #37 of 250: Malka Older (malka) Wed 6 Jan 21 12:37
permalink #37 of 250: Malka Older (malka) Wed 6 Jan 21 12:37
Are we surprised? People have said there would be violence and a coup attempt, the perpetrators said what they were planning to do. It has been said over and over again. And yet, Twitter is peppered with comments of the "I can't believe this is happening here" variety. In part, this is US exceptionalism, the same kind that created the "it's like a third-world country" [sic] responses to Hurricane Katrina, another disaster both predicted and predictable. There's another kind of exceptionalism going on as well, one that seeks to separate the moment of crisis from everything before. I see this often in disaster research; the not-normalness of the disaster, the sense of break, becomes almost talismanic. It is a defensive response: <i>This is not real.<i> But believing in the exceptionalism of disaster also means separating it from the long roots that lead up to almost every one. What I learned working in disaster response is that the sooner you can change your mentality from "normal" work to disaster mode, the better your response will be. What I learned researching disasters is that people try very hard to make disasters exogenous, Acts of God or inexplicable tribalism or sudden and unprecedented or all of the above. That's a way of hiding the causes of the crisis and avoiding accountability.
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permalink #38 of 250: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 6 Jan 21 14:17
permalink #38 of 250: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 6 Jan 21 14:17
When we were in Greece a few years ago we drove past their parliament building and saw several dozen members of Golden Dawn, in their black-and-gold regalia, standing on the lawn in front of the building. The Proud Boys have adopted their color scheme and their fascist politics, and today they're being more aggressive than Golden Dawn was.
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permalink #39 of 250: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 6 Jan 21 16:26
permalink #39 of 250: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 6 Jan 21 16:26
Jake Angeli "QAnon Shaman" is already my favorite among the Trump occupation militia. To see a shamanic figure in a horned headdress sending Senators fleeing was like witnessing yuppies levitating the Pentagon. My wife once stormed a capital building during a revolution. If Trump had won re-election the Republicans would have very likely simply given him term number three and then the seditionaries would be a different demographic. Militias have been busting into statehouses for some time now, so to be all flatfooted and surprised about this is simply to betray one's naivete. Even if Washington is put under lockdown I'd be expecting trouble at Red State statehouses; the "Patriots" are gonna compare notes and they will gleefully bully anybody who flinches and appeases them.
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permalink #40 of 250: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 6 Jan 21 17:54
permalink #40 of 250: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 6 Jan 21 17:54
I'm having trouble seeing the humor in sending senators fleeing from their chamber, no matter how fancy one's silly hat is.
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permalink #41 of 250: Malka Older (malka) Thu 7 Jan 21 01:42
permalink #41 of 250: Malka Older (malka) Thu 7 Jan 21 01:42
What a collision between substance and the almost-ex-comemierda-in-chief's cult of superficiality (he *acts* like a millionaire so he must be a millionaire; he's a millionaire so he must be a savvy businessman; he fires people on TV so he must be a CEO; ETC). In substance, the insurrectionists accomplished very little last night, other than property damage; if anything, they seem to have set back their shambolic "cause" by pushing some Congress people away from their objections. It is almost ridiculous that they thought breaking things and taking selfies in a mostly empty building might change the results of an election. But symbolically, they were successful. Those selfies will aggrandize them to their friends and followers and uncertain hangers-on; by playing out their fantasies on camera they draped themselves in the connotations of the action movie heroes they were cosplaying; above all, the immunity with which they proceeded to attack the symbols of legitimate power will embolden others and diminish that legitimacy in their eyes. Both successful and a failure, depending on what you see and what you value. What will it take to move people towards valuing substance over superficiality?
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permalink #42 of 250: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Thu 7 Jan 21 03:08
permalink #42 of 250: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Thu 7 Jan 21 03:08
I think the insurrection makes my point about the weakness of surveillance. These guys are surveilling themselves committing these deeds and spreading them virally. All the Global War on Terror gear installed at such pains and expense in Washington might as well have been tissue. "Panoptical" and "piratical" are the same thing. The "little green men" secessionists in the Ukraine War did a ton of this; they were covert operatives in homemade camouflage, but they were also relentless about spreading memes, shooting digital videos and wearing socially-designed roleplay costumes. They looked comical at first, but once the shooting started their tactics improved a lot; they've a frozen conflict zone but their ethnic fighters are formidable combat veterans. Interesting article in the pro-Trumpian WASHINGTON TIMES in which home-made zealots use "face recognition" to deliberately mis-identify rather well-known right-wing activists as "Antifa." They're using the allure of computer surveillance to flood the zone with bullshit. This propaganda of the deed has accomplished a lot for the alt-right; I don't doubt some of them will go to prison, but the others are a lot closer to the right-wing goal of becoming captains of fascist squadristi. We're gonna see no-go zones and the other associated lawlessness you see with say, narcoterror activities they're ethnonational patriots, but they're also tireless grifters, so there's gonna be a whole lot of black money involved. My guess is that the Trump Regime goes underground now, and they just start accumulating tough-guy untouchables. They've committed so many offenses that they kinda need a militia to stay out of prison, and I'm thinking that's Florida, a kind of Trump Disneyland with don't-tread-on-me private security. Also, if the Alt-Right looks much stronger, the US Congress looks much, much weaker. To see them cringing and sniveling in their seat of power as they couldn't certify a free election, that's the kind of bad optics you just don't get over; they've been profaned and stripped of dignity with a Trumpian thoroughness; they're really just, ripped-off suckers and loser weak-sisters.
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permalink #43 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:12
permalink #43 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:12
<inkwell.vue.510.37> <malka> "Twitter is peppered with comments of the 'I can't believe this is happening here' variety." I also said "I can't believe this was happening," but I was responding to the fact that it seemed to finally sink in with the Trumpists formerly known as Republican legislators that they were backing a seriously demented horse in a race to the Apocalypse. I had pretty much decided they'd gone morally blind. Appreciate your insight about the blindness around preventable disasters (especially those that emerge slowly, e.g. anthropogenic climate change.) <inkwell.vue.510.42> <malka> "It is almost ridiculous that they thought breaking things and taking selfies in a mostly empty building might change the results of an election." I'm not thinking they expected success in overturning the election, though perhaps they were deluded enough to think so. However I think they were riding the crest of Trump's irrational anger, acting as instruments of his rage. As with any tantrum, there was likely no goal beyond acting out. In that they were no doubt successful. <inkwell.vue.510.42> <bruces> "All the Global War on Terror gear installed at such pains and expense in Washington might as well have been tissue." Because they were welcomed as friendlies, apparently. I'm hearing that some of the Capitol police removed barricades and let the insurrectionists into the building, even shot selfies with them. "To see them cringing and sniveling in their seat of power as they couldn't certify a free election, that's the kind of bad optics you just don't get over; they've been profaned and stripped of dignity with a Trumpian thoroughness; they're really just, ripped-off suckers and loser weak-sisters." This might be true if they'd simply crawled away, but when the building was secure they came back and did their business, and in the process regained dignity. It was surprising and heartening to see someone like Kelly Loeffler, who'd just lost her election, renounce her objection to the vote, as did several others. Today's NY Times had this headline: "Congress Confirms Biden's Win, Defying Mob Attack."
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permalink #44 of 250: Anonymous (fruitbatpangolin) (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:16
permalink #44 of 250: Anonymous (fruitbatpangolin) (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:16
Two anonymous comments from "fruitbatpangolin": #1 Keeping in mind that the real reason that the sun never sets on the British Empire is because God doesnt trust the British in the dark, and while pestilence stalks the globe, that even Jesus was killed by a cross contamination, I would allow a bit of snarky humour in witnessing senators scattered by half naked representatives of the popular Tory splinter group, Vikings Against Migration (logo; an image of a longship, with a big red cross over the top of it). Facetious sardony in the face of crisis is one of the most functional aspects of humour. Giggle a bit at last night, is only going to get weirder and more stupid from here on out. Here be dragons, and theyre all playing naked bicycle polo. #2 As we awaken, or struggle through on brandy coffee and buckfast, it seems that a popular Republican take on the nights events appears to be; The unforgivable invasion of the capital building by half naked men in comedy Viking hats was a noble and edifying protest by an entirely justified and peacefully violent mob of democracy loving all American patriots who want to stop the election, Joe Biden is therefore responsible for all of this, and furthermore, it was perpetrated by a secret qabal of antifa, cleverly disguised as well known qanon uchube slebs, enabling evasion of police while they took selfies with them. Seems perfectly legit and very normal. I definitely witness no glaringly wide, expansive, and possibly bottomless logical chasms capable of sailing a moderately sized flotilla of aircraft carriers through. No sirree. The US shouldnt be too glum though. Was looking pretty similar last night to the vast majority of legislative handover processes in history. I suppose that it was even somewhat democratic, in that sense.
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permalink #45 of 250: Elaine Sweeney (sweeney) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:17
permalink #45 of 250: Elaine Sweeney (sweeney) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:17
>... it seemed to finally sink in with the >Trumpists formerly known as Republican legislators that they were >backing a seriously demented horse in a race to the Apocalypse. True in the Senate, much less so in the House, where 121 Republican representatives voted to sustain the objection to Arizona's electoral votes.
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permalink #46 of 250: Michael Bravo (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:18
permalink #46 of 250: Michael Bravo (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:18
Via email from Michael Bravo: I wanted to add a few little nitpicks early on, and a solitary observation that might be of some interest Year of the Ox is still ahead of us, it begins in February on the Western calendar. Until then, we are stuck with the Rat. "Little green men" in Ukraine, or, more specifically, in Crimea where the term originated from, were not at all covert operatives, nor were they local secessionists. They were overtly-deployed, full gear, masked, spec-ops Russian forces, just without any recognizable markings and a strict "silent smile, no comments" policy. There was, and is, a sizable disinformation campaign going on around the whole mess, with memes and lies and all the juicy Olgino troll factory stuff, but it doesn't intersect with boots on the ground. As to the Trumpism, I have been observing with some interest the parallels between its rise and the happenings in a massive online game called EvE Online, where a few years back a group of people hailing from forums on a website SomethingAwful have created an ingame association labeled GoonSwarm, with all the faux-punk, in-your-face, nihilist, 4Chan-flavoured demeanor that is so often proudly displayed in this parallel, real-life cult-ish movement. Luckily, EvE can be experienced entirely virtually, but the social similarities and raging passions are quite something.
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permalink #47 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:21
permalink #47 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:21
<inkwell.vue.510.45> <sweeney> Thanks for pointing that out. It's true that I was mostly looking at the Senate. As for the House, I'm thinking there should be an base IQ test requirement for Congressional candidates...
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permalink #48 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:43
permalink #48 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:43
Historian Heather Cox Richardson published a detailed account of yesterday's events in DC: <https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/january-6-2021?r=44cfz&utm_campaig n=post&utm_medium=email&utm_source=copy> Excerpt: "Within an hour, a violent mob stormed the Capitol and Cruz, along with the rest of the lawmakers, was rushed to safety (four quick-thinking staffers brought along the electoral ballots, in their ceremonial boxes). As the rioters broke in, police shot and killed one of them: Ashli Babbitt, an Air Force veteran from San Diego, QAnon believer, and staunch Trump supporter. The insurrectionists broke into the Senate chamber, where one was photographed on the dais of the Senate, shirtless and wearing a bull costume that revealed a Ku Klux Klan tattoo on his abdomen. They roamed the Capitol looking for Pence and other lawmakers they considered enemies. Not finding them, they ransacked offices. One rioter photographed himself sitting at House Speaker Nancy Pelosis desk with his feet on it. "They carried with them the Confederate flag. "Capitol police provided little obstruction, apparently eager to avoid confrontations that could be used as propaganda on social media. The intruders seemed a little surprised at their success, taking selfies and wandering around like tourists. One stole a lectern."
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permalink #49 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:52
permalink #49 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 06:52
Judd Legum reports that CEOs are considering cutting off donations to politicians who supported Trump's coup attempt: https://popular.info/p/the-chickens-come-home-to-roost?r=44cfz&utm_campaign=po st&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy "On Wednesday, the Wall Street Journal reported on 'a virtual gathering of chief executives' to 'discuss political turbulence stemming from the 2020 election.' On the call, 'leaders of some of the largest U.S. companies said they were considering withholding donations to Republican lawmakers seeking to impede the presidential transition.' "The group included executives from Deloitte, Disney, Accenture, and Goldman Sachs, among others. Many members of the group have signed statements acknowledging Biden's victory and calling for a peaceful transfer of power. But the group also discussed 'withholding political contributions, which some viewed as more meaningful than public statements.' Some executives also said, 'they would reconsider hiring, business and investments in states whose officials were fighting the transition.'"
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permalink #50 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 07:16
permalink #50 of 250: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 7 Jan 21 07:16
"One in five voters - including 45% of Republicans - approve of the storming of the Capitol building" https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/06/US-capito l-trump-poll
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