inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #126 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 7 Jan 22 16:24
permalink #126 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 7 Jan 22 16:24
Some of the action there is on YouTube or via podcast, e.g. Rebel Wisdom and The Stoa.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #127 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Fri 7 Jan 22 17:11
permalink #127 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Fri 7 Jan 22 17:11
liminal web/erik davis/doug rushkoff/happy mutant --- right, got it. at least it's not like eve babitz, who evidently ended her days listening to right-wing podcasts.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #128 of 468: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Fri 7 Jan 22 18:43
permalink #128 of 468: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Fri 7 Jan 22 18:43
Interesting that amid the state of the world in terms of the climate, biodiversity, democracy, and concentration of wealth, amid other indicators, cryptocurrency and blockchain are the rabbit holes weve largely gone down here for the past couple days.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #129 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Fri 7 Jan 22 18:54
permalink #129 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Fri 7 Jan 22 18:54
because some ppl -like- talking about crypto? it's fun for them to consider? rather than the intractable probs we dont know what to do about?
#130 - A random aperçu completely aside from anything but the state of the world this year has witnessed a phenomenon called "immersive art" in San Francisco & NYC. Au contraire, rather than delivering a sense of spaciousness - of being enveloped 3D the effect is a flattening a destruction of depth as if translating Van Gogh, Michelangelo, Picasso to the psychological width of a screen, a monitor.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #131 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Fri 7 Jan 22 23:43
permalink #131 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Fri 7 Jan 22 23:43
I'm wondering what interesting art people found in the last pandemic year. Not that people are getting out or travelling much, but there ought to be some on the Internet somewhere? I don't really expect anyone else to be interested, but I've become somewhat obsessed with Polish revival of interwar era music. Here's a good intro: <https://culture.pl/en/article/interwar-music-revivalists-the-bands-singers-pla ying-polish-music-of-the-1920s-1930s>
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #132 of 468: Inky fingers (ianb) Sat 8 Jan 22 00:35
permalink #132 of 468: Inky fingers (ianb) Sat 8 Jan 22 00:35
This is probably the best piece I've seen about why the "decentralised" dream of Web3 is not going to happen. In fact, it's already dead -- at least for ordinary users. https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #133 of 468: Michael D. Sullivan (avogadro) Sat 8 Jan 22 00:54
permalink #133 of 468: Michael D. Sullivan (avogadro) Sat 8 Jan 22 00:54
Can someone tell me what the f*ck Web3 means (and why I should care about it), without referring directly or indirectly to NFTs or VR, both of which exist without Web3 (I had the Google Cardboard viewer years ago and gave it up almost immediately because it was stupid) and largely or completely deserve to be canceled.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #134 of 468: Inky fingers (ianb) Sat 8 Jan 22 03:56
permalink #134 of 468: Inky fingers (ianb) Sat 8 Jan 22 03:56
Oh boy. I can have a go. Basically: the idea is to decentralise the web using blockchains to effectively replace databases, but it's a hazy concept. Key parts of it including decentralised finances (the use of cryptocurrencies not controlled by banks or governments), the creation of tokens of various kinds to denote ownership, and decentralised autonomous organisations (DAOs), which are organisations where governance rules are encoded programmatically (again on the blockchain). Some of it is interesting - I think DAOs are fascinating, although the early use of them is awful thanks to libertarian concepts of greater financial investment = greater democratic rights (some DAOs give more power to individuals based on how much they put in). Others are just worse technical solutions to existing problems: there is nothing that a blockchain can do that's not more effeciently done by a database is one of the common criticisms (and I've yet to find examples that prove that statement false). I think the name does it no favours. It's not Web3 - it's not really the web - and it's not a replacement for the web. It's something else, some bits interesting and some just the dreadful recreation of monetary power structures in code.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #135 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:16
permalink #135 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:16
In a recent presentation about Liminal Web and Web3 by Jared Lucas via Stoa (viewable at <https://youtu.be/JfoHPq19Oog>), I took some notes, including definitions: Liminal Web: thinkers Web3: Doers Web1: Read Web2: Read Write Web3: Read Write Own DeFi - Decentralized Finance. You can do most financial stuff faster and without a third party, not routed through a centralized system. NFTs - Fungible goods are things like grain, oil, water. NonFungible - things like baseball cards, art, music. Fungible tokens: Bitcoin etc. NonFungible tokens: Bored Ape Yacht Club, Cryptopunks. An NFT is a unique digital asset. DAO: decentralized autonomous organization. Shared cap table and bank account. Cap table is a share in ownership.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #136 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:29
permalink #136 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:29
We've been hearing that the blockchain concept is worldchanging since 2008, but so far the most obvious implementations have been currencies, and those currencies have worked more as speculative investments than as a actual media for exchange. So blockchain/crypto/web3 might be relevant as concepts that eventually will change everything, or they might be manifestations of a conceptual fad that will eventually fade. I do know that there's more and more buzz, more and more evident activity. I keep hearing that DAOs exist, but I've never been part of one. I know that NFTs exist - and Vinay was a pioneer with those instruments - but they seem to be a speculative investment, so I'm not sure I would call them worldchanging. I definitely defer to Vinay on that one. Wikipedia has a list of supposed use cases for blockchain <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain#Uses>: Cryptocurrencies Smart contracts Financial services Games Energy trading Supply chain Anti-counterfeiting Healthcare Domain names If blockchain truly becomes the way we do all of those things, the technology will become fairly pervasive. That same Wikipedia article explains what blockchain is, structurally <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain#Structure>: "A blockchain is a decentralized, distributed, and oftentimes public, digital ledger consisting of records called blocks that is used to record transactions across many computers so that any involved block cannot be altered retroactively, without the alteration of all subsequent blocks. This allows the participants to verify and audit transactions independently and relatively inexpensively. A blockchain database is managed autonomously using a peer-to-peer network and a distributed timestamping server. They are authenticated by mass collaboration powered by collective self-interests. Such a design facilitates robust workflow where participants' uncertainty regarding data security is marginal. The use of a blockchain removes the characteristic of infinite reproducibility from a digital asset. It confirms that each unit of value was transferred only once, solving the long-standing problem of double spending. A blockchain has been described as a value-exchange protocol. A blockchain can maintain title rights because, when properly set up to detail the exchange agreement, it provides a record that compels offer and acceptance." Blockchain will not fix climate change; in fact, might be making it worse. <https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/15/22328203/nft-cryptoart-ethereum-blockchain- climate-change>
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #137 of 468: Paul Harrison (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:30
permalink #137 of 468: Paul Harrison (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:30
Via email from Paul Harrison: I am enjoying the current State of the World discussion as always, although this one seems to have taken a few odd turns. I'd like to raise a lighter topic: Speaking of rabbit holes, maybe we could talk about what Japan has been up to with commoditized motion-capture. Hololive seems perfectly adapted to the current state of the world, but building on a history of technologies such as Vocaloid and MikuMikuDance and a creative culture that completely blurs online, offline, real and synthetic, such as the odottemita posted on Nico Nico. An animated dance routine might be copied by a real dancer, or a real dancer copied by a live-streamed motion capture performance, or an animated wrestling move copied by a real pro-wrestler leading to a weird collaboration. The technology and the casual ease with which it is used seems to have advanced in a series of leaps in the last year.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #138 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:33
permalink #138 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:33
Shebar Windstone sent an email reporting that the video referenced in <35> has been taken down: "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Walmart." The video showed a Walmart VR application. I'm hiding that post.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #139 of 468: fruitbatpangolin (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:36
permalink #139 of 468: fruitbatpangolin (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:36
Via email from fruitbatpangolin: Been lots of flattening depths recently. I watched the news about Lytton in Canada burning to the ground last June <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lytton_wildfire> and idly wondered how long it might be before a large unprepared temperate metropolis like London gets to experience sitting near 50 degrees Celcius for half a week or so. London is nearly on the same latitude as Lytton. Could be later this year.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #140 of 468: fruitbatpangolin (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:36
permalink #140 of 468: fruitbatpangolin (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:36
Via email from fruitbatpangolin: Sidney Poitier just died. Everyone, just stop whatever you are doing and go and rewatch Sneakers, out of reverence. It will only take a couple of hours, then we can go all back to bitching about crypto.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #141 of 468: fruitbatpangolin (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:38
permalink #141 of 468: fruitbatpangolin (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:38
Via email from fruitbatpangolin: <avogadro>, I'll see if I can help at all - Web3 is the fully buzzword compatible howling existential Lovecraftean void rent in the very fabric of the global network topology, which emerged in a freak abiogenetic spawning following the fabled usable release candidate of Project Xanadu becoming forever trapped in a frozen Platonic idyll of eternally perfect vapourware, which also released some Supermen baddies. On a related note, I suspect that the last time we wasted this much of humanity's available mathematical resources on the double spend problem for a monetary protocol, was back when we thought it was a good wheeze to employ Issac Newton to find and execute coin clippers for the Royal Mint. And while this seems wasteful in this modern enlightened age, as a solution to that problem, it still only scales marginally worse than most of the crypto tokens currently on offer today. For added comedy points, I also just went zietgeist fishing on twitter and it seems that this has been happening - <https://twitter.com/cat5749/status/1476813266462539779> Also this - <https://twitter.com/Charlie_Pyle/status/1479274941484699649> And will somebody please go check on Marc Andreessen, he looks to have snowcrashed and may need rebooting.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #142 of 468: Albert Cottica (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:39
permalink #142 of 468: Albert Cottica (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 06:39
Via email from Albert Cottica: Greetings and many thanks for your interesting thoughts to all at SOTW2022 (and hello Tex, hello Bruce, hello Vinay, happy 2022!) I am interested in the interplay between COVID response and risks for privacy and civil liberties. In 2020, most of the people in my extended network were worried about a second pandemic, one of surveillance. We agreed that this was a huge issue, and in particular claimed that immunity passports were an unworkable idea, as they would turn into "a civil liberties nightmare" (https://edgeryders.eu/t/a-surveillance-pandemic-results-of-the-community-liste ning-post-on-risks-for-freedom-in-the-wake-of-covid-19/13183). In 2021, though, I have been using my own immunity passport daily, showing a QR code to get into the gym or a restaurant, with surprisingly little pushback. Just what happened there? Have we been pessimistic? Or have we been right, and the nightmare is alive and well but out of our sight? Do you have any comment on that? Keep up the good work,
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #143 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:35
permalink #143 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:35
Ah crap. Ok, so <rips off shirt to reveal super suit> I did a lot of the early comms and project managed the launch of the Ethereum project. A lot of these concepts like Web3 come out of the period when the Ethereum team were discussing how to communicate what we had done. Note: I divested in 2016 so I am not a multi-millionaire unlike all of my cofounders. I feared the wrath of the SEC, and the SEc turned out not to have any wrath at all. At which point... <shrugs> not the first fortune I've missed out on. I will now proceed to assign homework. https://vimeo.com/161183966 is a talk I did about five years ago which explains *what is happening* with blockchain at a fundamental sociotechnical level. This is before tokens, this is before ICOs, this is before there was any real money in the field. This is the definitive *what this technology will do to our society* talk, from before the ponzi scheme people arrived. The basic story: first databases lived alone - isolated inside of organizations then databases were networked between organizations using APIs, but peer-to-peer collaboration through APIs is *extremely* difficult as the number of collaborators scales. This is the N SQUARED problem: 50 computers in fifty companies trying to talk to each other peer-to-peer needs 2500 successful technical integrations. The amount of human labour involved is serious. At 100 computers, it's 10000 connections. At 200, four times that again. Large scale machine-to-machine collaboration is impossible except for very simple protocols. What do we get instead? Hub-and-spoke monopolies: you connect to Square or VISA or Intuit, and they connect to everything else for you. You need one technical integration: "my software talks to Google, Google talks to everything else". Hub and spoke concentrates power in the hub. This N SQUARED problem is utterly fundamental. If you don't understand it, reread what I said, ask me questions, whatever it takes. But until it *clicks* and you realize that peer-to-peer is *impossible* because of the complexity growing as (at least) the square of the number of diverse systems being integrated, the need for blockchain will not make sense to you. You must get clarity about this critical point before forming an opinion about Web3. Now, those hub-and-spoke service providers? That's the wealth-concentrating megamoghuls of Silicon Valley. Why does Facebook exist? RSS readers failed, so rather than having everybody with their own blog, and I have my feed reader which does not insert advertising and I pay for my own compute and bandwidth, we have the entire social graph of an entire society owned by a private entity. Why does RSS fail? Different blog software outputs different RSS feeds. Different readers may fail to render some feeds, some times. "Oh, right-to-left unicode characters on wordpress 1.5.2 break font rendering in FeedStorm, but only on MacOS 8.3 and above." That's a classic N SQUARED problem: five dozen RSS-emitting blogging platforms, five dozen feed readers on five different platforms, and the software complexity just got more and more tangled. The system because hard to use, understand, and (critically) expensive to maintain. FB comes along and is basically "right then" and has one piece of blogging software and one RSS reader which it controls, and that's it: you connect to FB, FB connects you to everything else. This pattern replicates **EVERYWHERE** once you can see it: gmail, sure, ate decentralized email. VISA ate decentralized bank card settlements. Over and over again, the technical complexity of keeping things peer-to-peer rises as the peer to peer networks scale. So you get great little subcultures of peer to peer innovation, then they scale, then the N SQUARED problem makes them too expensive to maintain, then a monopolist comes in and eats the P2P network and replaced it with a hub-and-spoke monopoly which winds up owning the entire "connectedness infrastructure" of whatever it is they just ate. Blockchain is the solution to this problem *for exquisitely fiddly technical reasons which are almost never discussed in the press because almost nobody understands them. I will explain in the next part what that solution is, and why it actually works. But, first, please watch the video I linked. If you want to understand Web3 *properly* start there. I did not coin the term, but I certainly created much of its meaning.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #144 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:40
permalink #144 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:40
On the incels thing: many, many of the incels self-identify as being on the autism spectrum. We should probably believe them. "many incels have aspergers" does *not* imply "many people who have aspergers are incels." I don't think we can ignore their self-reports and get any kind of real understanding of what is fuelling incel domestic terrorism. And that's what it is: it's domestic *terrorism*, not just spree shootings. I'm looking at this as a national security issue: "incel 9/11" is not impossible to imagine, but if we don't understand why they are killing people, it becomes much harder to stop them.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #145 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:40
permalink #145 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:40
"always listen very carefully and analytically to what your enemies tell you about themselves and how they see the world."
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #146 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:42
permalink #146 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:42
2015 Ethereum propaganda - I was in the room when we made this video, I seem to remember editing the script and talking to the design team quite a bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j23HnORQXvs This is what we thought we were doing. This is what Web3 grew from. This is where it all started.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #147 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:45
permalink #147 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:45
I mean, look at this adorable little munchkin :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDGq4aeevgY You have to go back to the source material! Don't read the garbage churned out by the ponzi merchants. Go back to the original team - Vitalik, Gavin Wood, Joe Lubin were the big thought leaders - and look at how they were communicating about Ethereum *when we built it*. The carpetbaggers contribute nothing but noise. It's like asking snake handling evangelical preachers the true meaning of the Resurrection. They'll tell you that they're Christians, but you should not take what they say as Gospel Truth.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #148 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:54
permalink #148 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 8 Jan 22 07:54
Wow, thanks for <143>, Vinay. I didn't get that before, and I probably should have. I spent some time in the early 2000s working for a company that marketed a translation hub for diverse services.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #149 of 468: Craig Maudlin (clm) Sat 8 Jan 22 08:56
permalink #149 of 468: Craig Maudlin (clm) Sat 8 Jan 22 08:56
Yes, thanks Vinay. But am I wrong in remembering that "Web 3.0" predates the emergence of bitcoin in the public eye? One of the important lessons here may be the fact that the very words we use to explain our thoughts are, in fact, changed with each retelling.
inkwell.vue.516
:
State of the World 2022
permalink #150 of 468: Jef Poskanzer (jef) Sat 8 Jan 22 09:00
permalink #150 of 468: Jef Poskanzer (jef) Sat 8 Jan 22 09:00
Berkeley proposed using a blockchain thingy for small-scale bond sales, and they're getting some pushback. Bare blockchain is not necessarily planet-wrecking like bitcoin, but for an inherently centralized application like one city's bond sales it's not any more useful than a regular old database. Or, given the likely transaction rate, a ledger book.
Members: Enter the conference to participate. All posts made in this conference are world-readable.