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State of the World 2022
permalink #451 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Mon 17 Jan 22 15:00
permalink #451 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Mon 17 Jan 22 15:00
Oh yeah this form of reparations is specifically the *absolutely easiest* form of reparations. It's "starter reparations". The cost of the damage is easy to calculate, and both the victim and the perpetrator are still alive. There are a *lot* of other areas where reparations are due, in my opinion. But this is probably the easiest one to price and pay to get the process started. I believe it was in the Libertarian Party platform about 20 years ago, I think that's where I first heard of it.
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permalink #452 of 468: Bruce Fox (brucefox) Mon 17 Jan 22 15:56
permalink #452 of 468: Bruce Fox (brucefox) Mon 17 Jan 22 15:56
Reparations indeed. I believe that giving people money is not proper reparations, the dominant culture just steals it back. Education is the only proper reparation I can imagine. That would be: free education from daycare to doctorate. And that for all persons with slave ancestors. And really free, as in books, lodging, and meals covered while in classes. Post-docs will have to figure their own financing. What I propose is not much more than what the Scandinavian countries already do, so it's not exactly radical. Start now, start with the 4 year olds, and increase it every year to cover the current group and the next group. That would be some pay back and would be effective for the future and doesn't try to put some dubious fix on the ills of the past.
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permalink #453 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Mon 17 Jan 22 16:55
permalink #453 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Mon 17 Jan 22 16:55
Bruce Fox: "just steals it back" - interested in knowing more about this. Are there situations where we've seen that happening? I'm no specialist, I'm genuinely curious about what actually happens. I like the free education model.
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permalink #454 of 468: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Mon 17 Jan 22 17:07
permalink #454 of 468: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Mon 17 Jan 22 17:07
> "just steals it back" Here is, apparently, Will Rogers take on that: "The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover didnt know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellows hands"
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permalink #455 of 468: Lloyd Arnold (jonl) Mon 17 Jan 22 19:52
permalink #455 of 468: Lloyd Arnold (jonl) Mon 17 Jan 22 19:52
Via email from Lloyd Arnold: Vinay Gupta, for more recent work with living machines, look up John Todd and Nancy Todd at Ocean Arks. <https://www.oceanarksint.org/>
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permalink #456 of 468: I was oilers1972, now going by (mct67) Mon 17 Jan 22 20:21
permalink #456 of 468: I was oilers1972, now going by (mct67) Mon 17 Jan 22 20:21
And that practice/paradigm of free education (for starters) needs to be for everybody, of all groups. After all, African-Americans are not the only group in America that has historically been marginalized. Plus, if it is only instituted for one group, won't that just prompt those members of the historically dominant group to claim, "See? They're discriminating against us again!".
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permalink #457 of 468: I was oilers1972, now going by (mct67) Mon 17 Jan 22 20:24
permalink #457 of 468: I was oilers1972, now going by (mct67) Mon 17 Jan 22 20:24
And I agree with those who say that the divide-and-conquer strategy here in the U.S. has always been more about power, and about money most of all, than about ethnicity.
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permalink #458 of 468: George Mokray (jonl) Tue 18 Jan 22 07:29
permalink #458 of 468: George Mokray (jonl) Tue 18 Jan 22 07:29
Via email from George Mokray: Thanks for the conversation. It is always enlightening. John Todd is still doing projects at <https://www.toddecological.com> and is working with a Dutch company, the Weathermakers <http://theweathermakers.nl>, developing a plan to make the Sinai Desert green <https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/20/our-biggest-challenge-lack -of-imagination-the-scientists-turning-the-desert-green>. They are using Johns "eco machines," greenhouses with an extremely biodiverse environment reflecting "the aggregate experience of life on Earth over the last 3.5bn years." They will distill salt water while growing plants, fish, and animals, all powered by the sun. "The idea is that you may have 100 of these structures," says John Todd. "And theyre spending five years in one site and then theyve moved, so these little ecologies are left behind." He has written a history of his lifetime building healthy and healing ecologies, Healing Earth: An Ecologists Journey of Innovation and Environmental Stewardship <https://www.northatlanticbooks.com/shop/healing-earth/> Greg Watson, who was the last director there, is now with the Schumacher Center for New Economics <https://centerforneweconomics.org> and working to make Buckminster Fulller's World Game an active tool <https://worldgameworkshop.org> One of the founders of New Alchemy Institute was Bill McLarney who 40 years ago started a Costa Rican version of New Alchemy, ANAI <http://www.anaicostarica.org>, to integrate nature conservation and sustainable development in the Talamanca region. Ive supported his work there with a small annual donation for most of that time and, in return, get a short annual report. This years brought more than a smile to my face and demands to be shared: "With the indispensable assistance of Bioeducators, we have finally completed a long deferred project to produce laminated sheets with photos of almost all of the 50 species of freshwater fish we have identified from the La Amistad Caribe watersheds, with scientific names plus common names in Spanish, English, Bribri, Naso and Ngobe. Getting the indigenous names right was a challenge which required sending our indigenous Bioeducators on errands to remote villages to visit 'old timers' who were thoroughly familiar with the names of the fish in their native languages, and putting them together with younger people fluent in the recently created written forms of the four languages. Thus a byproduct of our biologically focused work was to fortify the indigenous cultures . "For many years, ANAI's signature program was organic agroforestry. Over the years, and in keeping with our philosophy of maximizing local responsibility and involvement, this responsibility has been passed to APPTA (Talamanca Small Producers Association <https://www.appta.org/index.php/en/> which has become the worlds largest organic farmers' cooperative. ANAI's most recent contribution to APPTAs success has been in securing funding to obtain and install three industrial driers, which tremendously increases their capacity to purchase, process and market local organic farm products . "As what was once merely ANAI's vision of how things should be matured, we are ever more forcefully reminded of the links between terrestrial, aquatic and marine biodiversity, and the crucial role organic agroforestry plantations on small farms can play in reducing fragmentation and protecting landscape integrity. Toward this end, we are planning to initiate a process of mapping all existing forested corridors, and gaps, in our service area extending from the Rio Estrella watershed in Costa Rica to Almirante Bay in Panama, and from the cost to the Continental Divide... "All of the activities reported here - strengthening old and creating new organic agroforestry farms, fomenting the community Water Observatories movement, advocation for the needs of migratory fish - play into this vision." ANAI can always use donations at <https://www.anaicostarica.org/donate.html> The New Alchemy land in Hatchville, MA on Cape Cod is still continuing the vision in different ways, with some of the original New Alchies, as you can see at <https://newalchemists.net> John Todd, another of the founders and a pioneering ecological designer, is still working (one of his latest projects is on greening the Sinai Peninsula) through <https://www.toddecological.com>.
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permalink #459 of 468: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Tue 18 Jan 22 09:39
permalink #459 of 468: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Tue 18 Jan 22 09:39
FWIW, my grandfather's application to Columbia medical school was turned down because they'd already filled their "Jew quota". He became a pharmacist instead.
>Jew quota Ugly policy. But maybe a good band name. Sort of like The Negro Problem, from right to left.
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permalink #461 of 468: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Tue 18 Jan 22 10:10
permalink #461 of 468: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Tue 18 Jan 22 10:10
One of my grandmothers left Russia partly because as a Jew she couldn't get into nursing school.
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permalink #462 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Tue 18 Jan 22 13:59
permalink #462 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Tue 18 Jan 22 13:59
these stories were so common in our grandparents' and parents' generation
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permalink #463 of 468: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Tue 18 Jan 22 18:57
permalink #463 of 468: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Tue 18 Jan 22 18:57
Big thanks to everyone in the thread. It's been a wild ride!
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permalink #464 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 19 Jan 22 07:21
permalink #464 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 19 Jan 22 07:21
As will 2022!
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permalink #465 of 468: I was oilers1972, now going by (mct67) Thu 20 Jan 22 12:25
permalink #465 of 468: I was oilers1972, now going by (mct67) Thu 20 Jan 22 12:25
#462--I just don't want such stories to be common in our and future generations.
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permalink #466 of 468: I was oilers1972, now going by (mct67) Thu 20 Jan 22 12:26
permalink #466 of 468: I was oilers1972, now going by (mct67) Thu 20 Jan 22 12:26
And yes, thanks to all.
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permalink #467 of 468: fruitbatpangolin (jonl) Fri 21 Jan 22 07:02
permalink #467 of 468: fruitbatpangolin (jonl) Fri 21 Jan 22 07:02
Via email from fruitbatpangolin: Would like to post thanks, and special thanks to Jon for helping post my varied ramblings. I would have attempted more commentry, but y'all were saved this torment after my major intestine, in a desperate attempt to save humanity, leapt straight up through my neck and throttled my brain. In reality ( or whatever passes for that nowadays ) it was a wildcat strike of an ear infection, but I suspect that the bacteria involved were motivated along similar ethical lines, my prose style being very often quite indistinguishable from the poetic forms of the Azgoths of Kria.
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permalink #468 of 468: I was oilers1972, now going by (mct67) Fri 21 Jan 22 17:29
permalink #468 of 468: I was oilers1972, now going by (mct67) Fri 21 Jan 22 17:29
I hope you're feeling better soon.
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