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permalink #276 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Tue 11 Jan 22 12:51
permalink #276 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Tue 11 Jan 22 12:51
Erosion of rule of law is one of the critical aspects in failed states. The folks who stand up for "what is right (tm)" are extremely important to the overall functioning of society - investigative journalists, honest cops, whistleblowers and so on. When trust in the system collapses, and those people tend to stay home or go missing, the system overall starts to fall apart. Widespread flouting of the law by the States will accelerate US decline far, far faster than a principled States Rights agenda will. https://www.northatlanticbooks.com/blog/of-warlords-and-rodeos-why-nothing-wor ks/
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permalink #277 of 468: Tiffany Lee Brown (jonl) Tue 11 Jan 22 13:07
permalink #277 of 468: Tiffany Lee Brown (jonl) Tue 11 Jan 22 13:07
Via email from Tiffany Lee Brown: Here we've been discussing the State of the World. Upcoming on January 20, there will be a State of Democracy Summit available for free online -- the subjects and panelists look very interesting. One panelist is formerly the active, charming, much-missed Well member <zimby>, journalist Farai Chideya. One of the main sponsors of the event is Craig Newmark Philanthropies. Craig was active on The Well for years (another nice person we miss around here!) and is founder of Craigslist. <https://www.92y.org/state-of-democracy>
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permalink #278 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Tue 11 Jan 22 13:13
permalink #278 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Tue 11 Jan 22 13:13
thanx for posting this. but, sigh...
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permalink #279 of 468: Angie Coiro (coiro) Tue 11 Jan 22 13:38
permalink #279 of 468: Angie Coiro (coiro) Tue 11 Jan 22 13:38
Man, I miss Farai. So much of this conversation I'd love to hear her weigh in on!
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permalink #280 of 468: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Tue 11 Jan 22 13:52
permalink #280 of 468: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Tue 11 Jan 22 13:52
> This is a > near-comical allegation that they are in danger from me They/we are in danger from you, just as you are from us. This includes other people on the plane you take. This isn't something to be smug about. Even with a booster your vaccination isn't as reliable as we thought it was last spring.
>may rely on the Hispanic vote May rely more on the urban/rural shift, which is trending favorably.
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permalink #282 of 468: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Tue 11 Jan 22 16:24
permalink #282 of 468: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Tue 11 Jan 22 16:24
Vinay, I'm going to harsh parts of your manifesto. :-) "Turn the big cities into States: Chicago, San Francisco, LA, Chicago, Seattle and so on. This helps sort out the Electoral College problems, without annihilating it." Statehood for Puerto Rico or Washington, D.C. would largely do the same thing, and seems more plausible. They each have large constituencies for statehood already, and their governments, particularly Puerto Rico already do many of the things that state governments do. Badly, sometimes, but there's structure to build on. This happened as recently as 1959 (the year my sister was born), when Hawaii became a state, so there's a legislative structure for it, while there's none for cities becoming states. So will the Democrats kill the filibuster to enable this before the mid-terms? Might Murkowski, Romney, Sasse and enough other supposedly "good" Republicans clear a view around the bulky specters of Trump and sleazy Mitch McConnell to help? History doesn't write the future, but there's precedent, a template, for powerful federal voting rights laws and enforcement. Meanwhile, why would states agree to let major cities secede? The NY metro area generates the most economic activity of any other place in both NYS and New Jersey. The San Francisco metro area is apparently the sixth largest economy in the U.S. The Wikipedia reports that "in 2016, the nine counties of the Chicago metropolitan area accounted for 77.3% of the state's total wages, with the remaining 93 counties at 22.7%." "Push huge amounts of power over moral wedge issues down to the States: drugs, guns, abortion, LGBT legal status. This only works with Federal assistance to move people to a place they want to live: we can't have people economically trapped in a jurisdiction which just rolled back their civil rights." This would be a tragedy. How many Black or brown or impoverished white people do you think this society would relocate this way? What kind of traumas would people endure while trying to get out? What happens when, as does happen fairly regularly, New York or Massachusetts or Maine or New Jersey elects a Republican governor? What about American Indians living on or near reservations: so so many in states that have gone full-on conservative wingnut? Those are either their traditional territories or what they managed to claw out for themselves after being forcibly relocated in the 18th and 19th centuries. It's taken the land disappearing from under them, due to climate-change driven ice melt and coastal erosion, for some Alaska Native villages to try and move inland from their ancestral villages. The Democrats can't even get all their members to acknowledge that federal paid family and medical leave would be a clear economic win. So it's hard to imagine any Congress is going to pay to relocate millions to different states. That only seems to happen when states or feds see the economic logic of removing homes after flooding disasters which doesn't seem to happen often. New York State bought out dozens of coastal homes on Staten Island in the wake of Sandy people who got little to help over the prior decades that their neighborhoods flooded regularly. FEMA relocated many people living along the Mississippi after the Great Flood of 1994. Campaign finance reform could happen, conceivably. Very few countries are gonna let the U.S. Pentagon run nuclear power plants on their territory. An enduring American military presence is termed "occupation" by a lot of these people. Some of use felt comforted or relieved when the Pentagon typically sided with American democracy over fascism during the Trump years. I'd argue this was norm that underlined just how quickly and thoroughly Trump and his operatives knocked down most norms. Generally, I don't think we can assume the military is much or any more competent at making the best choices, or even most humane, when it comes to managing complicated and expensive projects.
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permalink #283 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Tue 11 Jan 22 16:29
permalink #283 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Tue 11 Jan 22 16:29
So Bruce, I want to come back to the biopolitics: the app you *must* have installed, and which *must* have its bluetooth on. I'm thinking here of Apple's airtags - I don't know how you tell your iPhone not to pass GPS data to Apple when your phone comes within range of a lost object with an airtag on it. A pervasive network which reports on us whenever two or more are gathered together. And I'm wearing an Apple Watch, which streams who-knows-what to who-knows-where. That sort of sounds like we're building the capability, over the next few years, to simultaneously watch the beating hearts hundreds of millions of people scattered all over the world. I don't know what that is. It's some kind of bizarre biopolitical panopticon: we can't see the whole world but we know where the people are and we know how they feel from their biological indicators. We have their DNA from all the PCR tests - unless I'm very much mistaken they're going to sequence all the DNA in those samples including the human DNA? I might be wrong about that. Anyway it's just a very weird event: the breaking through of computers into the biological domain on some epic scale. We got invaded by a virus, but it brought a new era of digitization in its wake. What *is* that? Does it even have a name?
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permalink #284 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Tue 11 Jan 22 17:04
permalink #284 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Tue 11 Jan 22 17:04
Emily Gertz: I used to carry a business card that said "I don't get out of bed for less than one percent mortality." If I was going back into that business today, my card would say "bad solutions for insoluble problems." Once you put civil war on the table as the possible outcome of *not* letting the Red States have a lot more control of their destinies, the minor aggravations of relocating a lot of people become a lot more acceptable. I don't know that there *will* be a civil war in the US. It's reeked of civil war / failed states to me since maybe 2007, when I first started writing about pushing the Wedge Issues down to the State level and moving people around to handle the civil rights impacts. But I'm also a noted catastrophist: I worked on a lot of things that never happened, and a few that did! https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/03/books/review-how-civil-wars-start-barbara-w alter.html I don't know of another implementable alternative to the US running the *risk* of civil war. I think if a concrete plan was put on the table to give the Wedge Issues back to the States, pretty much all the fire would go out of the pro civil war faction - they'd be getting most of what they want without the risk of having AC130 Ghostriders circling over American skies. As an alternative to war, the logistical and humanitarian issues you raise seem pretty minor. Is moving people around expensive? Sure. Cheaper than war. Are the Native Americans potentially going to get screwed again? Sure. Happens over and over again, they've had a terrible ride, maybe they get screwed again. But *as an alternative to war* these are trivial prices to pay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ADdToI9Akw&t=570s this is footage from the Bundy ranch standoff in 2014. It's notable because an armed group of ranchers force a group of rifle-bearing police back down the road. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ADdToI9Akw&t=540s there used to be close up footage of this conversation, where Officer Friendly, a very paramilitary-looking police officer, is persuaded that it's time for him and his men to go home. These guys, the snipers, are on the overpass behind the overpass you can see the crowd at. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhNFqaLioD4 there were several of them, serious looking sniper dudes, overlooking the entire situation. If a firefight had ensued the police would have been massacred. At the time, the rumour was that a couple of police counter snipers had been politely disarmed and walked out of the situation. America is *knee deep* in people who are capable of pulling off this kind of stuff. They've got the guns, they've got military training (veterans) or they've been trained by people who had military training, they're extraordinarily numerous - ten million deer hunters make acceptable infantry in many scenarios. The potential for a firestorm of violence in America is very real, and I do not see either democrats or republicans looking for off-ramps. What I see is people ignoring the warning signs of potential impending doom - much as they ignore climate change - and crossing their fingers it all sort of works out. I'm not saying pushing the Wedge Issues down to the States wouldn't cause problems. I'm not saying people wouldn't die - 20 million people driving to new homes, some of them are going to die in car accidents they would not otherwise have had at the very least - but in terms of *stopping the risk of widespread political violence in America* I don't know of a better credible solution right now. And I'd say the same about nuclear power, if solar wasn't getting cheaper so incredibly fast. Thank god for that.
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permalink #285 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Tue 11 Jan 22 17:37
permalink #285 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Tue 11 Jan 22 17:37
No convictions for walking the police off the land at gunpoint https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/08/bundy-family-charges-dropped-n evada-armed-standoff And a reasonably insightful piece about militia iconography https://popula.com/2019/02/24/about-face/ You can see a militia column working its way through the Jan6 crowd in the first few seconds of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiMEmgUf9EE There's a lot more footage of those guys around. If you watch the crowds carefully in the Jan6 footage, there are a fair number of anomalous actors - a low key, faces covered, fast moving two man team who are in and out of the building in minutes, that sort of thing. There was a *lot* of action on the day. To briefly to forestall the standard arguments: 1) Lightly armed militias in Iraq and Afghanistan ground the US military to a standstill. Combined population is 80 million, 25% of the size of the US. Militias on US soil would be larger, more heavily armed, better trained, and US personnel would be unlikely to treat them as a faceless enemy: expect a lot of tipoffs about when the bombs are going to start falling over Huston. Also don't assume that the Russians, Chinese etc. wouldn't run shoulder launched surface to air missiles and assorted other goodies into the conflict areas, and also provide satellite etc. reconnaissance. 2) I'm not saying this *will* happen. I'm saying this *could* happen. It's a realistic risk: a large scale Civil War 2 is possible and a lot of people in America (on all sides) are actively planning and preparing for it, all of which makes it more likely. Bringing the temperature on that conflict down means giving the potential insurgents some of what they want politically, *or* treating their leadership like union organizers in banana republics, and having the CIA round them up, shoot them, and bury them out in the desert. I'd rather negotiate than see this go kinetic, risk millions of deaths, risk the death of the US democracy if the coasts lose, and possibly the loss of global democracy (and any hope of international climate treaties) right behind that. This is super high stakes. Maybe we need to figure out how to give these people more of what they want, in areas where a compromise can be reached, before the craziness escalates and the shooting might start.
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permalink #286 of 468: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Tue 11 Jan 22 18:40
permalink #286 of 468: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Tue 11 Jan 22 18:40
>the minor aggravations of relocating a lot of people I glitched on this. There were aggravations in relocating a lot of people when India and Pakistan became independent. The aggravations were arguably anything but minor. And then when you consider the situations of working class young women and girls seeking reproductive health support RIGHT AWAY, the aggravation of moving to another state - and then staying there? - is not in any way minor. I get that you're talking big picture, but the amount of suffering involved in devolving power to the states is beyond the capability of my pocket calculator. My first choice would be Lincoln's, all over again.
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permalink #287 of 468: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Tue 11 Jan 22 18:47
permalink #287 of 468: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Tue 11 Jan 22 18:47
When you have to go into debt to sell your house, relocation is a major, life-changing aggravation.
>I'm saying this *could* happen Well, anything could. But it still seems incalculably remote. I don't think appeasement is a useful strategy, though. You can't give them "a little bit of what they want"; wha they want is a patriarchal white ethostate. Politically and logistically infeasible. The various authors dining out on the fashionable ominous warnings about impending civil war don't even think it would be a war in any conventional sense, but rather more of a Northern Ireland during the Troubles model. Tragic, yes, but still a parochial conflict touching relatively few. Prosecuting such a conflict seems infinitely preferable to tolerating atrocity in exchange for -- what's that phrase? -- peace in our time.
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permalink #289 of 468: Mario Tennon (mct67) Tue 11 Jan 22 20:47
permalink #289 of 468: Mario Tennon (mct67) Tue 11 Jan 22 20:47
<scribbled by mct67 Tue 11 Jan 22 20:59>
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permalink #290 of 468: Mario Tennon (mct67) Tue 11 Jan 22 21:16
permalink #290 of 468: Mario Tennon (mct67) Tue 11 Jan 22 21:16
<scribbled by mct67 Tue 11 Jan 22 22:57>
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permalink #291 of 468: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Tue 11 Jan 22 21:24
permalink #291 of 468: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Tue 11 Jan 22 21:24
The analogies that are being offered are, yes, analogies, but at the bottom of this is the undeniable fact that the separate state are not actually able to subsist as they are without the help of the entire federal government. It's the same in Canada with its "have" and "have not" provinces. If the states are given their head, do they get from the federal government more than they put in? And if not, which states can survive?
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permalink #292 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Wed 12 Jan 22 02:31
permalink #292 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Wed 12 Jan 22 02:31
Paul Belserene: So let's think about what the social compact changes are. Firstly, remember, pre-1913 no income tax. Federal government had very limited tax raising powers, around 5% of its current budget. Most of the tax burden for running society was on States and municipalities, and was things like property taxes and sales taxes, not income taxes. The income tax was what turned America into a "proper country" with a powerful executive capable of prosecuting foreign wars and making social policy: prior to that, FedGov was poor. Secondly, most Americans have been getting poorer in real terms since the 1970s. A lot poorer: the dollar has lost a ton of its value, wages have stagnated, wealth has concentrated. An enormous number of Americans are just plain broke or permanently in debt, across all social classes. The wealth came from winning WW2, with the nuke: nobody was going to tell the Americans no, and the people who did got zapped by the CIA with relative impunity. Plus a huge and undamaged manufacturing and industrial base. I seem to remember 70% of the world's trucks and highways were in America. So as the rest of the world catches up America starts to feel poorer and poorer in comparison. The comparative advantage dissipates, the rich use their power to change the rules to keep them rich, and the poor pay the price. US healthcare is the core of this mess, but education is a close second: people are being treated like cattle. People are very, very bad at getting poorer gracefully. So from my perspective this is the macro-story: fifty years of imperial decline, and only 100 years of Federal government in its current form: it really only comes into existence with the income tax. This equilibrium - huge Federal government, and economic decline - is wha the Right are complaining about above all other things. They're *dramatically* less interested in race, and *more interested in money* than people give them credit for: they'd be as happy enslaving the Irish as the African Americans, if the law would let them. Poverty makes people monsters, and agriculture is a curse for those who work the land. This is what we have to work with... (oop, out of time, more later)
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permalink #293 of 468: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 12 Jan 22 02:56
permalink #293 of 468: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 12 Jan 22 02:56
Interesting news on the Chinese front. Xi Jinping decided that computer games were bad for kids; "spiritual opium," made them lazy and neglecting their analog engineering. Those gamers are 'lying flat,' they're 'touching fish,' they're not participating the 'national rejuvenation.' So, they just stopped licensing games. You can create games in China, but you can't register and sell them. Game studios are going broke all over China. Xi doesn't just attack Baudi Alibaba Tencent Big Tech oligarch, he's also happy to choke the little guys -- the "tigers and flies," as they say in Chinese anti-corruption campaigns. https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3161717/china-gaming-crackdown-freeze -new-video-game-licences-extends-2022 I don't think Xi ever wants the game business to come back. I suspect he has games figured as premonitions of the Metaverse, which is an awful fever-dream that a proper civilization just shouldn't have. Xi is by no means a Luddite, mind you: Xi loves Chinese Artificial Intelligence, Chinese moon colonies, he can't get enough of military hardware. Xi Jinping is 68 years old (and so am I). I wonder how many years as a baton-swinging autocrat this Emperor can possibly have left in him.
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permalink #294 of 468: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 12 Jan 22 03:06
permalink #294 of 468: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 12 Jan 22 03:06
*The Kazakh regime has got it together to have a parliamentary meeting and a formal policy announcement (thoughfully translated into English for the sake of us offshored voyeurs). https://www.gov.kz/memleket/entities/mfa-strasbourg/press/news/details/311251? lang=en "President Tokayev confirmed that perpetrators of violence took advantage of public discontent with the increase of liquefied gas price. Initially, peaceful rallies against the rise of gas price took place in a number of regions. Then, peaceful protests were hijacked by bandits, looters, and armed terrorists, including foreign militants. The perpetrators key goal is clear they aimed at destruction of government institutions, undermining of the constitutional order, and, ultimately, the seizure of power in Kazakhstan. "Facing an unprecedented armed aggression by terrorists, Kazakhstan had to request for assistance from its partners at the Collective Security Treaty Organisation (CSTO) and deployment of an international peacekeeping contingent. By today, the main mission of the CSTO peacekeeping force has been successfully completed. A phased withdrawal from Kazakhstan of the entire CSTO peacekeeping contingent will begin in two days and will take no more than 10 days in total." *Are those CSTO peacekeepers really gonna shoulder arms, wrap their flags and march out of Kazakhstan, "Mission Accomplished"? Doing that in an oil-patch is practically unheard-of, but I guess it worked for Kuwait once. Sort of.
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permalink #295 of 468: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 12 Jan 22 03:07
permalink #295 of 468: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 12 Jan 22 03:07
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permalink #296 of 468: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 12 Jan 22 03:12
permalink #296 of 468: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 12 Jan 22 03:12
*Along with the imported sticks from the CSTO, the President is offering the restive Kazakh population a rather extensive selection of carrots. "The Government will make a special effort to address the issues of economic inequality in Kazakhstan. It will ensure that incomes of all groups of population grow at pace with the growth of the national economy. Within two months, the Government and the Chamber of Entrepreneurs will develop a programme to increase the income of the general public and will prepare concrete proposals to reduce poverty in Kazakhstan. "The Government will promptly develop a new Social Code. The Government must adapt its social policies to the new reality, taking into account the challenges of the Covid pandemic and all other problems. The Social Code should become a key element of the new social contract in Kazakhstan... "A special fund For the People of Kazakhstan will be established to support Kazakh citizens at the time of need. The fund will be fully transparent and accountable to the public. Its funding will come from private and public sources." *Will these promised bribes mellow out the riotous population? I have my doubts, because I don't think the locals believe this will happen, but, well, maybe they won't become Syria or Afghanistan. Kazakhstan is by no means Shangri-La, but not becoming Syria or Afghanistan, that would be almost a victory condition in MMXXII.
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permalink #297 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Wed 12 Jan 22 06:24
permalink #297 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Wed 12 Jan 22 06:24
I wonder what the Chinese video game ban will do to their birth rate?
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permalink #298 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Wed 12 Jan 22 06:31
permalink #298 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Wed 12 Jan 22 06:31
And, can I note just how radical a piece of social engineering a video game ban is? That's an *extremely* deep reshaping of the forces shaping the young: it's turning those kids into different people. Raising their kids like our billionaires do? https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tech-billionaire-parents-limit/
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permalink #299 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 12 Jan 22 07:02
permalink #299 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 12 Jan 22 07:02
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permalink #300 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 12 Jan 22 07:03
permalink #300 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 12 Jan 22 07:03
I suspect a video game ban in the USA would result in mass suicide or worse.
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